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Should Teachers consider Industrial Action?

  • 16-10-2008 10:11PM
    #1
    sitstill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭


    I'm surprised theres nothing on this already. I'm just wondering if other people agree that our unions should be considering some sort of industrial action to bring attention to the disservice being done to the nation's children in this week's budget- its not getting enough media attention and it really should be...

    Class sizes are already far too big with out the student:teacher ratio being changed

    The new supervision rules are unworkable and will result in children being sent home when teachers are absent and bringing chaos to schools

    Upto 2000 teachers across both levels are likely to lose their jobs.

    In my school today we were told that grants for TY, LCA and LCVP are being discontinued.

    It seems like the worst hit schools will be disadvantaged schools. I don't think this is looking after the needy in society, is it? In fact, responding to the proposal that class sizes are to increase next year, the INTO's General Secretary, John Carr, said the government had failed abysmally to protect the vulnerable in our society. "Mr Lenihan has stolen the futures of primary pupils to bail out the banks" - this is equally true at second level. I also vaguely remember the Green Party promising us the exact opposite in their election manifesto.

    I felt ill today as I researched the exact nature of the education cutbacks. As a teacher it repulses me that politicians would do this to the children of our country, and why - they don't have a vote and thus don't have a voice. But we do, and have shown that in the past, so I think teachers need to do all we can to highlight these injustices, up to and including industrial action.


Comments

  • #2
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    To be honest, its parents should strike as its not our conditions of work that are effected really but more so the conditions of education that the Kids are getting. Unless our wages go down, bad schoo buildings or someone fired without cause then I don't know what we have to strike about. Temporary teachers are just that, temporary and unless permanent or CID is written on your contract then you don't have a claim on your job.


  • #3
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    sitstill wrote: »
    I'm surprised theres nothing on this already.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055398818


    There has to be something new. The government have given 2 fingers to all of our class size meetings, statements, etc.


  • #4
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,969 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    How is this a cause worth going on strike on? Get on and do the job you are paid to.
    Parents far outnumber teachers in terms of votes. If it's a serious issue then it will be resolved. We've already seen this on over 70's medical cards, it only took two days.

    You have a union, use it. Many TD's are former teachers, approach them.
    You saw what public support you recieved in the last strike (little or none) so use your representation channels and highlight your concerns but why the need to go on strike?


  • #5
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    TheDriver wrote: »
    To be honest, its parents should strike as its not our conditions of work that are effected really but more so the conditions of education that the Kids are getting. Unless our wages go down, bad schoo buildings or someone fired without cause then I don't know what we have to strike about. Temporary teachers are just that, temporary and unless permanent or CID is written on your contract then you don't have a claim on your job.



    Surely conditions of education that the kids are getting should be a legitimate matter of concern for teachers? Surely that is above consideration of wages or work contracts? You can strike about anything you like - you just need to believe in it.


  • #6
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    As somebody with no connections to the Teaching profession (bar this forum), I think you would be shooting yourselves in the foot by taking industrial action.

    I do think the real cause for striking would be lost in the ether, it would be more a case of "Oh, the teachers are on strike again. Typical."


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  • #7
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    Surely conditions of education that the kids are getting should be a legitimate matter of concern for teachers? Surely that is above consideration of wages or work contracts? You can strike about anything you like - you just need to believe in it.

    I do believe in it but parents (whose children benefit from conditions) would do nothing but complain about us on strike so in some ways, why put ourselves in the firing line of those we want to help


  • #8
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    TheDriver wrote: »
    I do believe in it but parents (whose children benefit from conditions) would do nothing but complain about us on strike so in some ways, why put ourselves in the firing line of those we want to help


    Fair point.


  • #9
    sitstill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Temporary teachers are just that, temporary and unless permanent or CID is written on your contract then you don't have a claim on your job.

    It's lovely to see that you are right behind your colleagues that were perhaps not as fortunate as yourself in getting permanent or CID contracts. While it would cause major problems for myself and any other teachers who may lose their jobs as a result of the budget, it wasn't my main point.

    I'm more concerned with the cutbacks which will affect the learning experience of the children in our care. Any teacher who really is passionate about what they do and wants to ensure that the young people in their care receive the best education possible would be very upset about the cutbacks and would be willing to make a stand to defend the children of Ireland. I know that there are many teachers who are willing to.

    I don't think these issues have received enough media attention this week, having been eclipsed by the medical card situation and so I don't think most parents really know how serious it is or know the implications. Last time the teachers were involved in industrial action, they received a lot of bad press and the public opinion of teachers took a bit of a blow, but the issues then had to do with pay; this is about so much more than that and so I don't think most right-minded parents would have such an issue with it, even though it might cause them some inconvenienve because most would recognise that teachers are fighting for the good of their students.


  • #10
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    sitstill wrote: »
    It's lovely to see that you are right behind your colleagues that were perhaps not as fortunate as yourself in getting permanent or CID contracts. While it would cause major problems for myself and any other teachers who may lose their jobs as a result of the budget, it wasn't my main point.

    I sympathise with you on this but year after year, we hear about people qualifying and complaing about no jobs, its not the governments role to give everyone a job and likewise we have no leg to stand on as these jobs weren't there a few years ago anyways. Its like someone covering a career break for 4 years and then suddenly the teacher comes back and they feel agreived that the job is not there for them, contracts don't automatically entitle you to anything more than what you are employed for.
    sitstill wrote: »
    I'm more concerned with the cutbacks which will affect the learning experience of the children in our care. Any teacher who really is passionate about what they do and wants to ensure that the young people in their care receive the best education possible would be very upset about the cutbacks and would be willing to make a stand to defend the children of Ireland. I know that there are many teachers who are willing to.

    I don't think these issues have received enough media attention this week, having been eclipsed by the medical card situation and so I don't think most parents really know how serious it is or know the implications. Last time the teachers were involved in industrial action, they received a lot of bad press and the public opinion of teachers took a bit of a blow, but the issues then had to do with pay; this is about so much more than that and so I don't think most right-minded parents would have such an issue with it, even though it might cause them some inconvenienve because most would recognise that teachers are fighting for the good of their students.

    Nearly all teachers want the best from their kids and it would be unfair to think otherwise but I don't see the parents assocation etc bringing this matter up to the government but they were very vocal when they wanted a standardised school year. If we inconvenience parents, no matter what the cause, I think its going to look bad for us especially as most people know conditions in schools are fairly bad anyways. I think these issues will come up very soon especially as some TDs have started mentioning the cutbacks in Education which seem far more than health. It would be most advisable is teachers sit it out and let the govt hang themselves in the issues........
    I have heard from some teachers, as a side point, that cutbacks for English Language teachers is no harm due to anyone arriving into Ireland getting one straight away yet Irish Children with Special needs must jump through many hoops just to get considered for an SNA. Interesting point and I'm sure parents will start seeing this too so I would be cautious on striking over all the issues as even though I may not agree with them, its public view which is important


  • #11
    bdoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 574 ✭✭✭bdoo


    I'm with the Driver on this. Striking would do more harm than good. The last strike damaged the teaching profession very badly and it still hasn't recovered.

    When you have muppets like Eddie Hobbs calling for 10% cuts in the public service you can be sure he's talking about education too not just govt. departments. Public opinion is already very much against people who hold permanent pensionable jobs without adding fuel to the fire.

    Parents are losing jobs and have their backs to the wall trying to keep things going it would be pretty lousy to tell them that we're taking a few days off....that's how they'll see it and add insult to injury.

    Money is tight there's no doubt but i agree with you sitstill children shouldn't suffer. Certainly the unions should be vocal on the issue, but individual schools, managerial bodies, parent and student representative bodies etc should do their part too. All parents have a vote and a local TD they need to get off their asses and do something. Our job is to teach the children in front of us every day and do the best for them.

    What outcome from a strike?
    What do you give as your reason for striking? What outcome will get us back to work? How many jobs do we want to protect? Just teachers? SNA's (They have a union of their own)? A long drawn out strike with no clear goal at the end will achieve nothing, take away from the childs time in school and ultimately lead to further problems.

    We already do a good job with limited resources...let's just keep up the good work.


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  • #12
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    As a parent (and former UK teacher) I'd support a strike, or at least a work to rule (refusing to teach extra pupils from classes split because of no subs)

    I also think there might be great pressure to be put on the Govt if all parent went on strike from any additional financial contributions to the school. This could be ringfenced into a escrow fund that will only be released after a U-turn on these absurd policies.

    Removal of subs and increasing class sizes is a disgrace.

    "If the 4,000 teachers to whom I referred had, since 2002, been placed into mainstream classes, the ratio would have been reduced to 20:1. The case was well made that disadvantaged children and those with disabilities should be placed in smaller classes. Many such classes contain 15 or fewer pupils. Was it right to give people with fewer chances - namely, those who are disadvantaged, those who have difficulties at home or those with disabilities or learning difficulties - access to a better ratio than the norm? The judgment of the Government was that it would be better to place virtually all of the teachers to whom I refer, over a number of years, into classes for disabled and disadvantaged children, thereby reducing the ratio to 12:1, 13:1, 14:1 and 15:1 and leaving that ratio relating to mainstream classes at a higher level. I make no apologies for doing that.

    When we achieved the target ratio in respect of disadvantaged and special needs teachers and provided thousands of classroom assistants last year, we then decided to put in place 1,200 additional teachers - 800 in primary schools and 400 in secondary schools - to reduce class sizes and teach languages. That was the right way to proceed. Next year, a further 800 will be appointed to reduce the ratio further. To do it the other way around would have made the figures look good. I am sure Deputies would accuse me of massaging the figures. "

    Bertie Ahern, Feb 2007


  • #13
    gaeilgegrinds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds


    I just think that parents are often slow to give out as they don't realise the sad truth of what it is their children are dealing with in school. If they really care they will indeed support any action we take.


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