The IAA, "The Shop" and the other organisation - Moved from the PQ Thread

Wacko · 22-12-2008 05:57PM

To be fair you really are pushing it a bit there, 330 fps = 1.01 joule, 129fps = 1.00 joule, did you search his website desprately looking for something like that ? Take it easy will you, if the MOJ wants to ban airsoft because it will give a few good headlines, he will, he couldn´t give a flying fcuk what you, me, the IAA or whatever this new organistion think, they are in it for the soundbites and the few votes, politicians do what is good for themselves and no one else.

knifey_spoonie · 22-12-2008 06:02PM

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

oh and before you go, you need to change a spring to change an fps, the web edit wont do it for you...i think you found that out before...

Its very easy to bash somebody who cant talk back aint it ?? ( not just at you but at everybody)

Lets look at it the other way, i have bought 6 aeg's from a IAA linked retailer 4 of which were hot, so what do i have to do i go to a skirmish find out, then i have to trapse up to said retailer 3 hour round trip, this gun is hot, ya da yada, "oh sorry about that" not anything else but sorry no credit no goodwill, it has even happened where i have collected a aeg after being told all was well, the to find nothing was done to it.

All its shows is the IAA has no control over its linked retailers, what Derek is trying to do to an extent is put stricker controls on retailing airsoft gear.Which i have no problem with.

Dont get me wrong some of the ideas he has are crazy.

But what would really help the sport is a happy medium.

I get the impression the IAA is to nice to do what is sometimes needed and Derek is sometimes to extrem .

I think what is needed is for Derek and the IAA, to forget the past and work together, both have the same end goal the survial of airsoft, thats all the matters at this point in time

My to cents

Stay classy airsofters;);)

gandalf · 22-12-2008 06:03PM

I agree with Wacko here Falls thats not going to achieve anything at all. I suggest you edit your post at that point.

I will pm you the list when I get home. I would rather not put the list up here but I would expect those that attended this to post here and justify why this new organisation is needed. If they are honest and come clean that it is a commercially biased organisation then I will be fine but I think they need to stand back and remove the pretense that it is in the equal interest of all airsofters.

Again it says nothing for the transparancy of this organisation that it held its meeting in secret, selectively invited people (based on unknown parameters, all we can do is speculate what they are) and then edited out the list of attendees when people started to question why they formed this organisation in the first place.

kdouglas · 22-12-2008 06:05PM

The Warehouse wrote: »

The second time I met them it was by my invitation at the stress test. This time one of them played one game and then they left without them discussing what they actually do.

Id like to clarify on this a little as I feel it paints myself in a bad light.

I was there that night with Ronan from the IAA

I played one game, and only one game because I hadn't brought any of my own gear with me, vtec loaned me an mp7 and I joined in just to give the site a go (have gotta get back out there with my p90 or even better, shotty

)
We then hung around until the games were finished up (and we did hang around for quite a while in fairness) so that we could talk to all three of you without some having to go off and marshall etc...

The way you say it, it reads as if we turned up, played a game and then left.

Myself and Ronan weren't there to sell you anything or convince you to become an affiliate, we were just there in an informal manner to pop by and say hello and answer any questions you may have.

Tigger wrote: »

i have a question did any non comittee members know the stuff that was deliberatly kep`t from us and that was then announced at the agm

No one other than the IAA committee had knowledge of the mail from the DoJ until the announcement at the AGM

The reason why it was not announced was to ensure we had better information before going public with that information, look at it from our perspective, on one side we had our contacts in the DoJ saying our legislative changes would be taken onboard, and on the other we had the Minister very publicly saying airsoft would be banned, we needed to ensure our information was correct before making it public knowledge.

Beast ASI wrote: »

Rooky, I'm sorry, but UKARA is corrupt, and it cares for *nothing* about players, and all it's formed is for retailers to make more money and as a result of this, it's restricted the growth of the UK airsoft community considerably.

They are not a UK governing body in the slightest. They were formed to save their own asses, not players.

No better source for how bad the UKARA is than from one of the players on the ground who has to deal with it.

kdouglas · 22-12-2008 06:38PM

knife_fighter wrote: »

Its very easy to bash somebody who cant talk back aint it ?? ( not just at you but at everybody)

Lets look at it the other way, i have bought 6 aeg's from a IAA linked retailer 4 of which were hot, so what do i have to do i go to a skirmish find out, then i have to trapse up to said retailer 3 hour round trip, this gun is hot, ya da yada, "oh sorry about that" not anything else but sorry no credit no goodwill, it has even happened where i have collected a aeg after being told all was well, the to find nothing was done to it.

All its shows is the IAA has no control over its linked retailers, what Derek is trying to do to an extent is put stricker controls on retailing airsoft gear.Which i have no problem with.

Dont get me wrong some of the ideas he has are crazy.

But what would really help the sport is a happy medium.

I get the impression the IAA is to nice to do what is sometimes needed and Derek is sometimes to extrem .

I think what is needed is for Derek and the IAA, to forget the past and work together, both have the same end goal the survial of airsoft, thats all the matters at this point in time

My to cents

Stay classy airsofters;);)

And did you report this IAA Affiliated Retailer to the IAA so that they could investigate?

Puding · 22-12-2008 07:10PM

I think what is needed is for Derek and the IAA, to forget the past and work together, both have the same end goal the survial of airsoft, thats all the matters at this point in time

This has been attempted and was even arranged at and around the last iaa agm, and a lot if not all retailers agreed to get together to talk, people agreed to this know full well that another organization was being formed in the background and said nothing.

Yes they both want the survival of airsoft but the iaa fight for all does not matter if your a member or not, this other organization aim is control the market.

The minutes of the meeting make me laugh it is a question and answer session with derek, no debate, no questioning of the Constitution no debate on it, Derek voted in as vice chairman and a chairmen voted in who is captain of a team that mia sponsors?

And as someone said i find it worrying that this, organization meet the doj before it even officially existed.

Fallschirmjager · 22-12-2008 07:11PM

knife_fighter wrote: »

Its very easy to bash somebody who cant talk back aint it ?? ( not just at you but at everybody)

Lets look at it the other way, i have bought 6 aeg's from a IAA linked retailer 4 of which were hot, so what do i have to do i go to a skirmish find out, then i have to trapse up to said retailer 3 hour round trip, this gun is hot, ya da yada, "oh sorry about that" not anything else but sorry no credit no goodwill, it has even happened where i have collected a aeg after being told all was well, the to find nothing was done to it.

All its shows is the IAA has no control over its linked retailers, what Derek is trying to do to an extent is put stricker controls on retailing airsoft gear.Which i have no problem with.

Dont get me wrong some of the ideas he has are crazy.

But what would really help the sport is a happy medium.

I get the impression the IAA is to nice to do what is sometimes needed and Derek is sometimes to extrem .

I think what is needed is for Derek and the IAA, to forget the past and work together, both have the same end goal the survial of airsoft, thats all the matters at this point in time

My to cents

Stay classy airsofters;);)

well if he was banned from here that is hardly anything to do with me. He made his choices.

as it happens i have no issue with an accidental delivery from anyone, thats why its an accident although i do feel your pain about the journey back as im a bogger myself. what we are or at least were talking about (as i editted it as per request and pmed the other chap to do likewise) i assume this was not advertised as over the limit? so there is a difference IMHO.

and just for clarification, i was about to plonk down cash for a ww2 piece (and as i explained in the pm) before all this kicked off so no, i wasnt trawling for mistakes, quite frankly i have better things to do with my time 2 days before christmas....

extremetaz · 22-12-2008 07:26PM

gerrowadat wrote: »

That's hardly called for. ... If it could be legitimised with zero reward, then that's all I personally can ask for.

Right, here's the deal, I'm rather irate right now, that's doubtless shown in my last few posts, isn't something that's going to die out just yet and mark my words - I mean every ****ing syllable of it!!

That wasn't about any measure or recognition - this is about the abundance of inaction, apathy and parasitic no-alls who sit on their ivory towers spouting paranoia and controversy and serving no purpose but to cause division in the community. And worst of all, they don't do it for anything more than the love of their own "opinion" regardless of whether it's founded entirely in fantasy or not.

and frankly no - it's not harsh, it's how I feel quite genuinely about those who chose to run their mouths whilst sitting in their dens of inaction. Get behind the community or don't, but don't put down the efforts of others whilst you sit and do absolutely f*cking nothing!!

and as for all the newbies flying around the place with their facts and fairytails (and more often than not confused between the two) from the mouths of those nearest to them - might be time to actually start looking for something a little more concrete than the spoken word. Then start talking about "transparency".

:mad::mad::mad:

kiwi84000 · 22-12-2008 07:37PM

kdouglas wrote: »

Id like to clarify on this a little as I feel it paints myself in a bad light.

I was there that night with Ronan from the IAA

I played one game, and only one game because I hadn't brought any of my own gear with me, vtec loaned me an mp7 and I joined in just to give the site a go (have gotta get back out there with my p90 or even better, shotty )
We then hung around until the games were finished up (and we did hang around for quite a while in fairness) so that we could talk to all three of you without some having to go off and marshall etc...

The way you say it, it reads as if we turned up, played a game and then left.

Myself and Ronan weren't there to sell you anything or convince you to become an affiliate, we were just there in an informal manner to pop by and say hello and answer any questions you may have.

I am sorry it came across that way Kdouglas. You did indeed stay for a while and I am glad you enjoyed the site.

I was trying to make some points and the post was turning into a wall of text already.

I have decided to post these from my account and not the partnerships as I am stating my opinions here and not that of the partnership.

kinkstr · 22-12-2008 07:38PM

Anyone know how many members this new organisation has roughly?

extremetaz · 22-12-2008 08:12PM

kinkstr wrote: »

Anyone know how many members this new organisation has roughly?

not many - but given that membership is not only free, but also *required* in order to purchase from their retailers, it'll build quickly.

However, on account of the signup arrangement, numbers in their case does not indicate support, it merely means that people have been willing to endure the farce of having to sign on in order to buy kit.

Witcher · 22-12-2008 08:15PM

extremetaz wrote: »

However, on account of the signup arrangement, numbers in their case does not indicate support, it merely means that people have been willing to endure the farce of having to sign on in order to buy kit.

Which no doubt will be used to say "We haz more memberz dan

you'z":rolleyes:

Puding · 22-12-2008 08:17PM

only retailers are members at the moment, no information on how the public can join,

Tigger · 22-12-2008 08:39PM

Lemming wrote: »

Tigger, no representative group is going to relay everything to you all the time. Secondly, broadcasting everything during on-going negation is extraordinarily bad because
You piss off the government body enacting legislation

You show your hand to everyone else whilst they do not reciprocate.

You asked about a response from teh minister and were given a fairly definitive response. You then asked the same question again somehow expecting some other answer. Politicians are not known for being swift in their dealings.

i asked about the doj thats what was in the quote

did you know before the meeting about the dojs feedback?

kiwi84000 · 22-12-2008 08:41PM

gandalf wrote: »

Thats fine, you are confirming that this is primarally a commercial organisation. If thats the case then that is what you should be putting forward not a charade that you actually represent the players.

From both the 1st paragraph of the constitution and from the discussions at the meeting I do believe that it will be representing the players.

gandalf wrote: »

But there are rules. By law you have to sell under 1 joule?

Personally I would prefer more rules on who gets these devices.

gandalf wrote: »

Given the instigator of this new commercial (See above) organisation actually started his disagreement with the IAA because of his supply of hot devices I find this slightly ironic.

From my discussions with retailers they all get hot AEG's from time to time. By this logic all retailers should be excluded from the IAA.

gandalf wrote: »

By placing a restriction on people purchasing them. Especially those who have concern about privacy issues with a Database and an extensive one at that being held on all their devices etc?

What information will be on this database? Not discussed

How will it be secured? Not discussed

Who will have access to it? DoJ and Committee

How are the people who have access to it vetted? For the Committee they will be vetted by those voting in the committee. As for the DoJ it will be decided by the DoJ

gandalf wrote: »

Well that makes sense you are bottlenecking players into joining, getting free marketing information on them. That's a quite valuable commodity isn't it.

Yes it is. But it is not one that I would accept from the committee and one that I would vote against if raised at the AGM as I am sure others would do.

gandalf wrote: »

Well the choice is clear from my point of view.

For €30 per year you can have an organisation that is voluntary and is not funded or run directly by commercial interests who will have their own agenda ie profit.

The organization would be run by those voted into the committee at the AGM. It too would be voluntary. Yes it is funded by commercial interests as they make the most money from Airsoft. But it is voted on by the members who would surely outnumber the commercial side.

gandalf wrote: »

Again who has oversight on this. Retailers, Distributors, Site Owners. What actual guarantees are there that this data will not be misused?

Valid point. In my opinion safeguards should be added to the constitution.

gandalf wrote: »

Have the DoJ actually asked for these measures? Not that I am aware of but at the time as far as I knew they were planning to ban the sport

Have they been suggested to them? I dont know

If this happened before your meeting on what authority were these representations made? On the authority of those who made them as individuals.

Who invited people? Please name the person or persons who did the inviting?

Myself and the partners were invited by two different groups of people. The first invitation was the day before the meeting and the second was on the actual day. I believe that it was called on very short notice due to the comments made.

gandalf wrote: »

I have an issue having my information in the hands of someone who has quite spectacularly flown off the handle.

I am going to take a page out of the IAA fan boi's book on this one. If you dont like who is running it then join for free and vote for who you do want.

gandalf wrote: »

This from someone who had a secret meeting that claims to be representing all the players of airsoft where only "selected" people were invited to massage the agenda of the organiser?

This whole "Secret meeting" thing has to stop. As far as I am aware it was called on short notice. As for the selected people part I have already stated that I do not agree with excluding anyone who would like to join and who was not invited.

gandalf wrote: »

Whatever argument you and others had about transparency was blown out of the water last Thursday!

I agree to some extent but not my decision

gandalf wrote: »

Thats fine people can make representations all they like. However I do not want an organisation that is clearly skewed towards the commercial interests stating they represent me. You do not and based on the proposals put forward at your selected secretive meeting will never represent my interests.

You make the assumption that it is commercial only based on the people invited. I can see why you say this I really can. It would not have been my choice to invite only those that attended. However with that said I do agree with the principal objectives of the group. Just as I agree in the most part with what the IAA have proposed for venues.

For me it boiled down to the fact that the IAA charge for membership and for voting. IASRA does not. This will ensure that the IASRA gets more of the airsoft community as members and as such will be more democratic then the IAA when it comes to deciding the future of our sport.

Again if you dont like something about the organization then join it and vote to change it.

gandalf wrote: »

All I know from being involved with another campaigning organisation in the past is you do not publish everything you do, every meeting you take part in, every detail that is discussed. That is reality. I am confident getting to know the IAA guys that they have concentrated their efforts in the right areas.

And you talk about us having secret meetings.

gandalf wrote: »

You also invited me to the test and I unfortunately didn't get a chance to go. I actually didn't reply so apologies here and thanks for the invite.

No problem at all man. It is a pity you couldnt make it and I do hope you get a chance to look at the site.

gandalf wrote: »

And as a player I feel your organisation is being headed by a person with an agenda to limit the choice to players and form a cartel. I base this on my dealings with him and mine and others experiences of how he operates.

Thats a fair point. I can only respond that if you and others dont like him this much then join up and vote. I have had no issues with him and have not heard the stories so I will stay out of that one.

gandalf wrote: »

Firstly an AEG cannot do a lot of damage. It can do perceived damage but the device itself cannot.

Damage is Damage.

gandalf wrote: »

Your proposal is to create a cartel and a government/DoJ sponsored one at that? If a new business wants to open up it sounds like they have to join the cartel.

If the new business agrees to follow the strict rules on sales why should they not want to join up?

gandalf wrote: »

Yes there were people who obviously were excluded because of a personal agenda. Honestly I dont think I can say it enough. I do not agree with people being excluded and did raise this point at the meeting.

Do you think setting up of a new organisation with the aim of ringfencing customers in a cartel without including all retailers is ideal, is warranted? Ideal? No. But I believe it was warranted due to the lack of information I had regarding the future of our sport and the need to do something to save it.

Again what were the parameters for inclusion in the "club"? I do not know.

It obviously was not for the interest of ALL who want to preserve airsoft as a past time we love. Thats what I was there for. I cant speak for others.

If that was the case why were the other retailers not invited? Did you not think about asking that? I did. I asked if said retailers would be allowed join and was informed that yes they would be.

The fact the notes from your meeting have been edited to exclude the members names really bodes well to the transparency argument as well.

I am not here representing the organization. I think it was the wrong move to hide the names. On that note I would urge all that attended to post here explaining their reasoning behind attending the meeting.

gandalf · 22-12-2008 08:44PM

Tigger wrote: »

i asked about the doj thats what was in the quote

did you know before the meeting about the dojs feedback?

I think you'll find that was answered already. The only people who knew about the feedback before the IAA AGM were the committee. The ordinary members like me found out at the meeting.

Pred_Bull · 22-12-2008 08:54PM

Alright, i've read through the first three pages of this thread with some concern. As a player and marshal who had to sit through the UKARA and "specific defense" debacle, allow me to shed some light on a few things that happened in the UK.

1. Airsoft under threat.

Airsoft became threatened in the UK after a long and arduous campaign by anti-gun types and the ever vocal "Mothers against guns". Airsoft, until this point, especially in Northern Ireland had been a quiet minority. Many were of the belief that if we kept quiet, everything would work out okay. Once the VCRB/A was in play, people realised that wasn't going to be the case anymore.

Long and short, the responisibility was down to the PLAYERS to deal with this and get things done, and to an extent, initially, they did.

2. Enter UKARA.

Eventually the UKARA came into play, a body set up by retailers, purporting to be for the good of airsoft and the players. Well, lets just say it didn't quite end up that way. The only way for a player in the United Kingdom to purchase a "RIF" as they are now known, is to play 3 times within two months at a "registered" site. And of course to have any credibility, you have to be a "registred" retailer.

3. The problem with UKARA.

At first, there was much rejoicing. Everybody was backslapping, praising UKARA for the work "they" had done (forgetting about the role the ABA and the UKASGB, players bodies, had played) and after a while, the honeymoon period ended when it became abundantly clear that UKARA was a commercial enterprise with the sole purpose of preserving RETAIL, not AIRSOFT. This fatal flaw really came to light when the entire Z1 debacle was hung out in public, whereby double standards galore were on display for all to see.

4. What does this have to do with Airsoft in Ireland and the IAA?

LEARN from the MISTAKES the UK made. You are fortunate enough to have an enthusiastic PLAYER BASED body that is incredibly enthusiastic about preserving airsoft and allowing all to play it as freely as possible without being some sort of gestapo down there.

It is absolutely beyond me how some people are too blind to see that they have people working themselves to a pulp, in a seemingly thankless job, and for every success these guys achieve they get a murmur of appreciation, but for every trip (which everyone has) they get lambasted.

Perhaps it's time for the community at large to take a look at the bigger picture and realise. You are in the fortunate position of having people looking out for your interests and trying to allow you to enjoy airsoft for what it is, not trying to step in and hit you with the same restrictions that WE have had to endure.

I can only hope you all realise this before it is too late and you end up "siding" with what appears to me to be a completely commercial body which seems to only wish to rub the IAA up the wrong way.

Tigger · 22-12-2008 08:54PM

dude

not trying to fight here

as in said i have asked questions and been lied to

so i will ask the same question of different people because i smell a rat

i bet that shiva knew

my logic is that he attended a meeting with the fg spokes person so he will have been briefed

i suspect others had been reassured at the very minimum

this stinks of a two tier system

Dr_Pepper · 22-12-2008 08:57PM

Guys as much as i love debate, and this thread has been enlightening.
I think the quote reply, more quotes being answered with quote quote reply, quote reply - is not going to solve much.

I'm merely fascinated by the fact that the "suggested reasons why ppl havent joined the IAA" are either money related or others, yet these have never been addressed to the committee past or present.

I will however like to finally say that, if someone had an issue with the IAA, this presumebly means the "committee" i would love to take this time to point out that the chair, vice chair, pro & secretary from last year are gone.
Yet none of these key "players" have made a single attempt to contact the present one. Thats not even attempting to work with the IAA.
End. Of. Argument.

Dr_Pepper · 22-12-2008 08:59PM

Tigger wrote: »

dude

not trying to fight here

as in said i have asked questions and been lied to

so i will ask the same question of different people because i smell a rat

i bet that shiva knew

my logic is that he attended a meeting with the fg spokes person so he will have been briefed

i suspect others had been reassured at the very minimum

this stinks of a two tier system

I beg of you to point this out to me and i shall expose it for you.
Do the 10 mins of info gathering and email it to info@irishairsoft.ie if you please.

kiwi84000 · 22-12-2008 09:02PM

Pred_Bull wrote: »

Alright, i've read through the first three pages of this thread with some concern. As a player and marshal who had to sit through the UKARA and "specific defense" debacle, allow me to shed some light on a few things that happened in the UK.

1. Airsoft under threat.

Airsoft became threatened in the UK after a long and arduous campaign by anti-gun types and the ever vocal "Mothers against guns". Airsoft, until this point, especially in Northern Ireland had been a quiet minority. Many were of the belief that if we kept quiet, everything would work out okay. Once the VCRB/A was in play, people realised that wasn't going to be the case anymore.

Long and short, the responisibility was down to the PLAYERS to deal with this and get things done, and to an extent, initially, they did.

2. Enter UKARA.

Eventually the UKARA came into play, a body set up by retailers, purporting to be for the good of airsoft and the players. Well, lets just say it didn't quite end up that way. The only way for a player in the United Kingdom to purchase a "RIF" as they are now known, is to play 3 times within two months at a "registered" site. And of course to have any credibility, you have to be a "registred" retailer.

3. The problem with UKARA.

At first, there was much rejoicing. Everybody was backslapping, praising UKARA for the work "they" had done (forgetting about the role the ABA and the UKASGB, players bodies, had played) and after a while, the honeymoon period ended when it became abundantly clear that UKARA was a commercial enterprise with the sole purpose of preserving RETAIL, not AIRSOFT. This fatal flaw really came to light when the entire Z1 debacle was hung out in public, whereby double standards galore were on display for all to see.

4. What does this have to do with Airsoft in Ireland and the IAA?

LEARN from the MISTAKES the UK made. You are fortunate enough to have an enthusiastic PLAYER BASED body that is incredibly enthusiastic about preserving airsoft and allowing all to play it as freely as possible without being some sort of gestapo down there.

It is absolutely beyond me how some people are too blind to see that they have people working themselves to a pulp, in a seemingly thankless job, and for every success these guys achieve they get a murmur of appreciation, but for every trip (which everyone has) they get lambasted.

Perhaps it's time for the community at large to take a look at the bigger picture and realise. You are in the fortunate position of having people looking out for your interests and trying to allow you to enjoy airsoft for what it is, not trying to step in and hit you with the same restrictions that WE have had to endure.

I can only hope you all realise this before it is too late and you end up "siding" with what appears to me to be a completely commercial body which seems to only wish to rub the IAA up the wrong way.

If measures like the UKARA was ever tried here I would vote against it. While it would ensure continued business from the diehard airsofters it would prevent future players from picking it up.

Our site is more public focused. I am of the opinion that for airsoft to survive it will need more people. That is what I and my partners are try to do. The UKARA system would kill our business.

If you think that is what this new organization is trying to do then join it and vote against measures forcing you to play.

Nothing like this was discussed at the meeting and infact we would like to get all the collectors and "Plinkers" to join as they are a voice that is not heard in the community.

Witcher · 22-12-2008 09:03PM

Tigger wrote: »

dude

not trying to fight here

as in said i have asked questions and been lied to

so i will ask the same question of different people because i smell a rat

i bet that shiva knew

my logic is that he attended a meeting with the fg spokes person so he will have been briefed

i suspect others had been reassured at the very minimum

this stinks of a two tier system

Bit of a conspiracy theory there..the IAA did their job,got a result and

you were informed of it..where's the issue?

Puding · 22-12-2008 09:04PM

lright, i've read through the first three pages of this thread with some concern. As a player and marshal who had to sit through the UKARA and "specific defense" debacle, allow me to shed some light on a few things that happened in the UK.

1. Airsoft under threat.

Airsoft became threatened in the UK after a long and arduous campaign by anti-gun types and the ever vocal "Mothers against guns".

##snip##

I can only hope you all realise this before it is too late and you end up "siding" with what appears to me to be a completely commercial body which seems to only wish to rub the IAA up the wrong way.

all i will say is thank you, thank you for taking the time to post, that is that remark about not learning from history? i hope all read and listen this is someone with no vested interest in either party posting form the heart and the head

Pred_Bull · 22-12-2008 09:05PM

kiwi84000 wrote: »

If measures like the UKARA was ever tried here I would vote against it. While it would ensure continued business from the diehard airsofters it would prevent future players from picking it up.

Our site is more public focused. I am of the opinion that for airsoft to survive it will need more people. That is what I and my partners are try to do. The UKARA system would kill our business.

If you think that is what this new organization is trying to do then join it and vote against measures forcing you to play.

Nothing like this was discussed at the meeting and infact we would like to get all the collectors and "Plinkers" to join as they are a voice that is not heard in the community.

But why can't the people in this "splinter" group simply join the IAA and vote against measures within the camp over there? What is stop you working with them as one body rather that trying to create a "tug-o-war" situation whereby one group pulls one way and one group the other?

What are your motives for this new group? Why? What good will it do having two voices instead of one? Who are you? Who do you represent?

All questions that as a player, I want to know, and I want answered. If you want credibility, you have to be transparent here.

Puding · 22-12-2008 09:07PM

If you think that is what this new organization is trying to do then join it and vote against measures forcing you to play.

As far as im aware we can not do this, the committee is picked the Constitution is passed and your already going to the doj, when do we as players get the chance to do anything?

kiwi84000 · 22-12-2008 09:16PM

Pred_Bull wrote: »

But why can't the people in this "splinter" group simply join the IAA and vote against measures within the camp over there? What is stop you working with them as one body rather that trying to create a "tug-o-war" situation whereby one group pulls one way and one group the other?

What are your motives for this new group? Why? What good will it do having two voices instead of one? Who are you? Who do you represent?

All questions that as a player, I want to know, and I want answered. If you want credibility, you have to be transparent here.

I have been told that the major forces behind it attempted to join and were refused. I personally would prefer if the IAA and the new organization merged. But from what I have seen here I don't think that either side would agree.

Also in the middle of a recession to ask for money for a hobbie is not right in my opinion. We want all voices. Not just those that can afford to give it.

What are your motives for this new group? The safety of airsoft in this country.

Why? Because I really enjoy playing and I have a commercial interest in the future of it.

What good will it do having two voices instead of one? Why should I not look for someone to represent me better?

Who are you? Peter Aka Kiwi

Who do you represent? The Warehouse.

kiwi84000 · 22-12-2008 09:17PM

Puding wrote: »

As far as im aware we can not do this, the committee is picked the Constitution is passed and your already going to the doj, when do we as players get the chance to do anything?

I can see on the new forum that they will be making an announcement shortly. I can only hope it is informing people how to join.

hrta · 22-12-2008 09:21PM

As the frist airsoft site to open in ireland.
i wonder why, i never got an invite to this IASRA.

So it's not very democratic when it comes to deciding the future of our sport is it.

kiwi84000 · 22-12-2008 09:24PM

hrta wrote: »

As the frist airsoft site to open in ireland.
i wonder why, i never got an invite to this IASRA.

So it's not very democratic when it comes to deciding the future of our sport is it.

I can suggest you contact the secretary about joining.

hrta · 22-12-2008 09:26PM

kiwi84000 wrote: »

I can suggest you contact the secretary about joining.

it's a bit late now

The IAA, "The Shop" and the other organisation - Moved from the PQ Thread

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