Guantanamo bay

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 12:49AM #1

Tell me if this is interesting;

America has gone and imprisoned a bunch of COULD BE terrorists, in all likely hood, tortured and essential had the opportunity to brain wash many.

Now they want to give them passports to all countries with in Europe.

Send them home i say!

These people can get a flight home if they want to or need to the day they land in any European country. So why should they be given passports to Europe?

I smell rotten fish...

tribulus · 27-01-2009 12:51AM

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Tell me if this is interesting;

America has gone and imprisoned a bunch of COULD BE terrorists, in all likely hood, tortured and essential had the opportunity to brain wash many.

Now they want to give them passports to all countries with in Europe.

Send them home i say!

These people can get a flight home if they want to or need to the day they land in any European country. So why should they be given passports to Europe?

I smell rotten fish...

It's not, maybe have a wash ?

minidazzler · 27-01-2009 12:51AM

What I want to ask is, Why not give them Passports to America???

The way I see it, If I were them and I was already a "Terrorist", I would do something Bad in Europe, just because they failed to demand America close Gitmo.

tallaght01 · 27-01-2009 12:54AM

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe. They won't be treated well in America.

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

deleriumtremens · 27-01-2009 12:56AM

Hmm. It seems to me that this is the first part of Presidents Obamas muslim agenda to take over the world!! Send all the terrorists to different focal points around the world!

We're all going to look so silly when in 50 years time after the muslims have taken control of the world! :eek:

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 12:59AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe.

He can get assurences that they will be treated well here either.

tallaght01 wrote: »

They won't be treated well in America.

Not our problem and not a problem that we CREATED.

tallaght01 wrote: »

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

We also campaigned for shannon to not be used as a stop over for a war that we also campained against.

tallaght01 wrote: »

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

WHY?

also

What if they are not innocent?

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.[/QUOTE]

FlutterinBantam · 27-01-2009 01:04AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Obama couldn't get assurances from their native countries that they'll be safe. They won't be treated well in America.

We campaigned for it's closure, so I guess we have some obligation to help out now.

If someone is innocent, and it's not safe for them to go home, and they can't stay in the states, then we should take them.

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

Don't speak for me pilgrim.

minidazzler · 27-01-2009 01:04AM

deleriumtremens wrote: »

Hmm. It seems to me that this is the first part of Presidents Obamas muslim agenda to take over the world!! Send all the terrorists to different focal points around the world!

We're all going to look so silly when in 50 years time after the muslims have taken control of the world! :eek:

No we won't because we will all be dead, and they will eat the remaining non muslim babies....

Hande hoche! · 27-01-2009 01:05AM

Send them to Yemen? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/guantanamo_al_qaida

TheZohanS · 27-01-2009 01:05AM

I doubt they'll do as much damage to this country as the fools we have running it.

shenanigans1982 · 27-01-2009 01:06AM

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Tell me if this is interesting;

America has gone and imprisoned a bunch of COULD BE terrorists, in all likely hood, tortured and essential had the opportunity to brain wash many.

Now they want to give them passports to all countries with in Europe.

Send them home i say!

These people can get a flight home if they want to or need to the day they land in any European country. So why should they be given passports to Europe?

I smell rotten fish...

I would say there is a good chance these people won't be allowed next to near a plane.

tallaght01 · 27-01-2009 01:07AM

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

He can get assurences that they will be treated well here either.

Not our problem and not a problem that we CREATED.

We also campaigned for shannon to not be used as a stop over for a war that we also campained against.

WHY?

also

What if they are not innocent?

We spend enough time complaining about bogus asylum seekers, so we should embrace the opportunity to house people who will genuinely suffer persecution back in their home country.

[/QUOTE]

1) We can give assurances that our miltary won't torture them.

2) We can't realistically just look at issues that are our immediate problem, otherwise we'd never do anything for, say, people in the third world.

3) Most developed contries have signed treaties to accept refugees.

4) They may not be innocent. But we could say that about anyone. They've never been convicted. If they're innocent, they're unlikely to bring a Al Qaeda to set up base in Ireland :P Most likely they'll just go back to Afghanistan or wherever, and re-integrate. That would have happened wherever they went.

Hard Larry · 27-01-2009 01:08AM

This is a secret ploy by the Yanks,

They are going to break these suspected terrorist by subjecting them to the most heinous of all tortures...

The Irish Passport Application Process

God/Allah help them poor souls.

tallaght01 · 27-01-2009 01:09AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Don't speak for me pilgrim.

Our government was one of the first to call for it's closure. Sorry, kid.

Was one of the few decent things they ever did.

Tom65 · 27-01-2009 01:16AM

See, this is the problem with imprisoning people without trial. They become stigmatized and lose their presumptive innocence. 55% of the people there have not been determined to have committed any hostile act against the US. 8% of detainees have been characterized as Al Qaeda fighters. 10 of 430 people have been convicted with a crime URL="http://www.amnestyusa.org/america/FactSheet.pdf"]Link[/URL. I'm not saying there aren't terrorists in Guantanamo, but there are a lot of innocent people in there too.

Frankly, I trust the US won't want to unload any serious threats to far from their noses (if they don't ship there to European anyway). So, why not accept some innocent people who can't return home?

FlutterinBantam · 27-01-2009 01:18AM

My golden ass.

Plenty of jackass terrorists in there .

Punters who thought it was "cool" to piss of from the east Midlands of England and fight for the "cause".

Different story when Uncle Sam cocked an Uzi behind their lugholes.

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

tallaght01 · 27-01-2009 01:24AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

LOL, well Obama isn't actually asking you personally to take anyone in :P

The government campaigned for it's closure, so he's asking the govt to take them in.

If we only went with policies that 100% of the public agree with, it would be one weird ass democracy!

FlutterinBantam · 27-01-2009 01:28AM

Just as well he's not, I am just making my position clear buddy.

dresden8 · 27-01-2009 01:29AM

America ****ed up

They can clean the **** from their own nest.

K-9 · 27-01-2009 01:32AM

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

We also campaigned for shannon to not be used as a stop over for a war that we also campained against.

Yep, many would argue against the War in Iraq, Bush, American imperialism etc. If you campaign against a war maybe you should help some of the victims of it?

Tom65 wrote: »

See, this is the problem with imprisoning people without trial. They become stigmatized and lose their presumptive innocence. 55% of the people there have not been determined to have committed any hostile act against the US. 8% of detainees have been characterized as Al Qaeda fighters. 10 of 430 people have been convicted with a crime URL="http://www.amnestyusa.org/america/FactSheet.pdf"]Link[/URL. I'm not saying there aren't terrorists in Guantanamo, but there are a lot of innocent people in there too.

Frankly, I trust the US won't want to unload any serious threats to far from their noses (if they don't ship there to European anyway). So, why not accept some innocent people who can't return home?

Exactly.

tallaght01 wrote: »

LOL, well Obama isn't actually asking you personally to take anyone in :P

The government campaigned for it's closure, so he's asking the govt to take them in.

If we only went with policies that 100% of the public agree with, it would be one weird ass democracy!

Waits for the "you bloody Liberal, PC'er" Comments from the Non PC flag bearers!

Tom65 · 27-01-2009 01:42AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

My golden ass.

Plenty of jackass terrorists in there .

Punters who thought it was "cool" to piss of from the east Midlands of England and fight for the "cause".

Different story when Uncle Sam cocked an Uzi behind their lugholes.

I didn't campaign for it's closure pal

And the people who aren't terrorists?

McGrath5 · 27-01-2009 02:07AM

As far as i'm concerned, it's America's mess, leave it to them to sort it out

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 02:09AM

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

I would say there is a good chance these people won't be allowed next to near a plane.

I have not seen any confirmation to that effect....

tallaght01 wrote: »

LOL, well Obama isn't actually asking you personally to take anyone in :P

The government campaigned for it's closure, so he's asking the govt to take them in.

The gov represent me and you and every one else in this country. So Obama IS asking us to take them in.

tallaght01 wrote: »

If we only went with policies that 100% of the public agree with, it would be one weird ass democracy!

The poll majority would make that point mute... Again democracy is a seperate issue.

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 02:13AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

2) We can't realistically just look at issues that are our immediate problem, otherwise we'd never do anything for, say, people in the third world.
QUOTE]

Our current way of doing things has not brought us to a very good place now has it. Would it not be better to get our collective heads out of our arse's before trying to say that we are sensible enough to help others?

As for third world countries, that is not on topic. If you create a thread about it I will be happy to share my views.

Seanies32 wrote: »

Yep, many would argue against the War in Iraq, Bush, American imperialism etc. If you campaign against a war maybe you should help some of the victims of it?

No. The concept that I or any other person does not agree with a War is one thing.

After we are not listened to a 2nd and entirly seperate issue arises. This issue was caused by the US. Make the US fix it.

A slightly daft but similar issue would be if I robbed a bank and some one else had to go to jail for it.

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 02:18AM

Tom65 wrote: »

See, this is the problem with imprisoning people without trial. They become stigmatized and lose their presumptive innocence. 55% of the people there have not been determined to have committed any hostile act against the US. 8% of detainees have been characterized as Al Qaeda fighters. 10 of 430 people have been convicted with a crime URL="http://www.amnestyusa.org/america/FactSheet.pdf"]Link[/URL. I'm not saying there aren't terrorists in Guantanamo, but there are a lot of innocent people in there too.

Fair enough. However this is about injecting them into europe, a place they do not have a right to be with out the appropriate visa.

Tom65 wrote: »

Frankly, I trust the US won't want to unload any serious threats to far from their noses (if they don't ship there to European anyway). So, why not accept some innocent people who can't return home?

I do not trust the US on any count. They have sone nothing to earn that.

They may or may not be terrorists, however they have been under US control for a period of time in a location that any thing can happen.

And now they will be spread around Europe with out any issue that their actions can be brought back to the Americans.

tallaght01 · 27-01-2009 02:24AM

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Our current way of doing things has not brought us to a very good place now has it. Would it not be better to get our collective heads out of our arse's before trying to say that we are sensible enough to help others?

It's brought us to a place where we spend a lot on helping others, and taking in refugees.

I think it would be crazy to suggest we must wait until our country is perfect before we can help anyone else. I just don't see why that would have to be.

Tom65 · 27-01-2009 02:30AM

EOA_Mushy wrote: »

Fair enough. However this is about injecting them into europe, a place they do not have a right to be with out the appropriate visa.

I do not trust the US on any count. They have sone nothing to earn that.

They may or may not be terrorists, however they have been under US control for a period of time in a location that any thing can happen.

And now they will be spread around Europe with out any issue that their actions can be brought back to the Americans.

If it's a question of whether they qualify for asylum here, that's a different matter. Ideally, if they can't go home, they'd stay in the US, but if they can't go to the US, I'd see a reason why we shouldn't let them stay here.

I can understand your mistrust of the US, but I think it's in their interest not to drop someone they suspect of plotting to attack them into the middle of Mullingar and then feck off. They will, at the very least, keep tabs on those they suspect of being genuine terrorists.

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 02:31AM

To come back to the topic.

American mess.

Problem is currently in America.

America is discarding the problem onto Europe.

I live in Europe.

I can not go and move to America with out an American family member or note from work stating that i am required and that no American will fit the position.

These people will be given Irish passports for one sole reason... The Americans f'ed up.

Even on the simplest point this is wrong.

EOA_Mushy · 27-01-2009 02:37AM

Tom65 wrote: »

If it's a question of whether they qualify for asylum here, that's a different matter. Ideally, if they can't go home, they'd stay in the US, but if they can't go to the US, I'd see a reason why we shouldn't let them stay here.

That is the point.

Tom65 wrote: »

I can understand your mistrust of the US, but I think it's in their interest not to drop someone they suspect of plotting to attack them into the middle of Mullingar and then feck off.

It doesnt need to be in their interest. Once they are here the American attitude is "Its your problem". All they will have to do is state that its our fault they are not still in prison.

Tom65 wrote: »

They will, at the very least, keep tabs on those they suspect of being genuine terrorists.

Could bring more interesting problems.

Irish police force, although can be credited with many achievements, would not be in a position to do any thing other then to ask them to come to their local gaurda staion once every month.

Down the country it could be worse.

jill_valentine · 27-01-2009 02:41AM

I couldn't give a toss who's mess this was. Somebody has to sort it out. Irish people spend untold hours a day whining about problems that could have been fixed by somebody else - well this is a problem, and we can help solve it. These guys from Guantanamo have to go somewhere, and it's not like there's enough of them to destablise the whole economy or anything.

Besides which, regardless of what I think about America's appalling actions regarding Guantanamo, they have in the past been a good friend to us. I figure we owe 'em one.

Even on an objective political standpoint, I think it would serve us well.

Duiske · 27-01-2009 02:44AM

Cuba's a great place. Cheap drink, great food, gorgeous women. My bet is if they just opened the gates of Guantanamo and let them walk out, most might actually want to stay there.

Guantanamo bay

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