Steam: Whats the point of it?

sarumite · 25-02-2009 06:55PM #1

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but what is the point of steam. Currently you can buy the boxed version of C&C: RA3 for 23e on play.com, yet its 50e on steam. If they can't beat on price, they dont provide hardcopies of the game....why bother?

Genghiz Cohen · 25-02-2009 07:28PM

Steam was originally a way for Valve to get it's updates out and ensure that everyone was playing on the most up to date version.

The prices are different probably because EA have to pay Valve to sell games through Steam.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 25-02-2009 07:58PM

To rob you blind...

Fnz · 25-02-2009 08:16PM

To punish the lazy.

5uspect · 25-02-2009 08:21PM

Its also for enforcing DRM to prevent piracy particularity on Valve's own games.
It also manages multiplayer matches, updates etc.
Incidentally, I'd say the quality of Valve's games is what kept keep Steam going initially.
Steam is like any other shop, and you can get bargains if you keep an eye on it.

SeantheMan · 25-02-2009 10:51PM

Its not just a Store !

Yes, they are often dearer than most other game retailers.
But the fact that you can purchase a game...and then download it infinite number of times to infinite number of machines is excellent !
Gone is the need for CDs/DVDs

Also there is a huge back catalogue of games you can buy

Thats just the store part,

Then theres the STEAM community, Friends List and Groups, In game comms.
Its like xfire/msn/gamespy all in 1 lovely well presented easily managed form specifically for gaming.

I hated steam at the beginning, it was one of the most annoying programs along with ICQ and IRC that ive ever used.

Now it is the foundation of my gaming scene

AlmightyCushion · 25-02-2009 11:06PM

SeantheMan wrote: »

But the fact that you can purchase a game...and then download it infinite number of times to infinite number of machines is excellent !
Gone is the need for CDs/DVDs

An iso ripper and daemon tools would do the same thing really.

dreamers75 · 25-02-2009 11:35PM

I hate it as it doesnt do whats it meant to, make games cheaper by reducing costs etc: That clearly doesnt work for Valves own games.

Its good for cheap ubisoft games, the complete Tom Clancy for 35 quid

Includes: Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter® 2 , Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® Desert Siege™, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® Island Thunder™, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter®, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon®

Just waiting for the rainbow 6 one now.

Beyond good and evil for a fiver etc:

Burgo · 26-02-2009 12:02AM

I do find it annoy that you cant make full use of steam for a retail version of Cod4 for example,you can only add it as a "non steam game".

tman · 26-02-2009 07:23AM

Burgo wrote: »

I do find it annoy that you cant make full use of steam for a retail version of Cod4 for example,you can only add it as a "non steam game".

It makes sense to me really... Why would valve offer free bandwidth for updates etc for a game that hasn't even been bought from them?

I do find it quite shocking that they can justify charging as much as they do for new games, when you can often buy a boxed copy for less (this was even the case with L4D, so it isn't just EA games that this affects...)

SeantheMan · 26-02-2009 07:30AM

tman wrote: »

I do find it quite shocking that they can justify charging as much as they do for new games, when you can often buy a boxed copy for less (this was even the case with L4D, so it isn't just EA games that this affects...)

Although its terrible that they do it, its quite understandable for them to do it. Because theres a market there for it

Theres always lazy people willing to pay extra to save themselves having to go the shop and queue (a group unfortunately I'm a part of myself

)

BuddhaJoe · 26-02-2009 09:48AM

SeantheMan wrote: »

Its not just a Store !

Yes, they are often dearer than most other game retailers.
But the fact that you can purchase a game...and then download it infinite number of times to infinite number of machines is excellent !
Gone is the need for CDs/DVDs

Also there is a huge back catalogue of games you can buy

Thats just the store part,

Then theres the STEAM community, Friends List and Groups, In game comms.
Its like xfire/msn/gamespy all in 1 lovely well presented easily managed form specifically for gaming.

I hated steam at the beginning, it was one of the most annoying programs along with ICQ and IRC that ive ever used.

Now it is the foundation of my gaming scene

+1. It may be more expensive but I'm more than willing to pay for the service and convenience you get with it.

Ri_Nollaig · 26-02-2009 09:49AM

I thought the orginial reason behind digitial distrubution for games was that they would be cheaper due to the lack of printing a disk, creating a box and "shelf presence". I dont think ive ever seen steam cheaper then other online shops and its normaly dearer then most bricks 'n' mortar ones too.
As a result I dont think ive ever bought a game from them, but on the plus side atleast you can buy games normally and install throught steam. This way you get the nice cheap price, plus the services it supplies like auto-updates and auto-cracked

Though I do imagine at some point they are going to release a steam-only big release, probably HL3 or something...

Ciaran500 · 26-02-2009 11:17AM

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

I thought the orginial reason behind digitial distrubution for games was that they would be cheaper due to the lack of printing a disk, creating a box and "shelf presence".

And it is, no one ever said they would pass the savings on :pac:

astrofool · 26-02-2009 11:21AM

I think a lot of people over estimate the cost of the DVD + physical box + transport compared to the retail price.

Steam does have some decent offers, but will never always be cheapest, especially as stores will discount at their own accord, Steam will price based on what EA/other publisher tell them to price at, vs. demand for a product.

Some retail box games allow them to be activated on steam, which is great (UT3 got this recently). I was very annoyed when I found out that bioshock, C+C3, crysis, far cry 2 couldn't be activated on steam.

Cy_Revenant · 26-02-2009 11:42AM

tman wrote: »

I do find it quite shocking that they can justify charging as much as they do for new games, when you can often buy a boxed copy for less (this was even the case with L4D, so it isn't just EA games that this affects...)

It seems to me, that it is down to the changeover from everyone getting charged American prices to the creation of a Eurozone within the Steam store.

I would say that the high prices have resulted from Valve setting the prices at the level of whichever country tends to have the most expensive games. Thereby preventing said country getting ridiculous discounts, but jacking up the price for the rest of us.

thebman · 26-02-2009 12:17PM

I think prices increased because they thought they'd get away with it.

So only one way to teach them :P

I buy most of my games from Steam if I can because the service is worth it. Its like Xbox Live quality service without the fee. Can't argue.

Cuddlesworth · 26-02-2009 12:44PM

Have you tried examining Valves business model?

They sell a game on a once off price. That once off price includes the ability to re-download the game at any time to any machine for as long as their company stays. No game keys or a centrally managed game key database. Free updates and content for their online games. Cheap priced updates for their single player expansions. Automatic patching.

Can anybody point out another online service that does this? Without a subscription.

Does anybody have any idea of the costs involved in hosting those files and supplying the amount of bandwidth needed? Which is quite plentiful from what I have experienced.

Their is one big problem with Steam and Valve that I can see. Should things turn bad for them at any stage and their sales slump their company will run itself into the ground. As all their income is from sales solely and they would still have to supply the services which are costly.

Which means one thing. At some stage Steam will have to turn into a subscription service.

sink · 26-02-2009 01:48PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Which means one thing. At some stage Steam will have to turn into a subscription service.

I don't think so. Have you considered that steam can make a profit from selling third party products without having to rely upon in house developed software for revenue. The traditional distribution system has even higher fixed costs throughout than steam. Rent, electricity, heating and staff all have to be paid all the way through from manufacturing to distribution and retail regardless of sales performance. Which together I am certain cost more than maintaining Steam.

Also have you considered that publishers are required to provided after sales service for the games such as patches and updates and steam allows them to effectively outsource their distribution to a third party cutting their own costs. And the publishers have to pay a fixed rate to valve for this service.

Steam has become the iTunes of online software distribution. As the internets premier download service it is going to remain the dominant player in this growing market segment for the foreseeable future much like iTunes remains the dominant music download service. (The only danger is really from Microsoft if it ever decides to get it's act together) All the while the traditional distribution of PC-Games is in steady decline. Walk into any HMV/gamestop and you will only find a tiny PC-Games section in comparison to the consoles. This is not due to declining sales as PC-Games are actually growing year on year, but the majority of this new growth is being driven by online distribution.

I predict that the next generation of consoles will see a major shift to online distribution where you will buy and download full games online not just expansions/add-ons and arcade games.

5uspect · 26-02-2009 02:02PM

Also consider that Doug Lombardi from Valve has said that once you buy the "box" they don't want to charge for additional content. Hopefully Valve stick to this philisophy.

thebman · 26-02-2009 03:06PM

I imagine they aren't actually allowed turn it into a subscription service at this stage.

Firstly there is the outcry from the people using the service.

Secondly there is the fact that they will have charged for it twice since that was included in the cost of the game by their current business model.

Cuddlesworth · 26-02-2009 05:34PM

sink wrote: »

I don't think so. Have you considered that steam can make a profit from selling third party products without having to rely upon in house developed software for revenue. The traditional distribution system has even higher fixed costs throughout than steam. Rent, electricity, heating and staff all have to be paid all the way through from manufacturing to distribution and retail regardless of sales performance. Which together I am certain cost more than maintaining Steam.

Also have you considered that publishers are required to provided after sales service for the games such as patches and updates and steam allows them to effectively outsource their distribution to a third party cutting their own costs. And the publishers have to pay a fixed rate to valve for this service.

Steam has become the iTunes of online software distribution. As the internets premier download service it is going to remain the dominant player in this growing market segment for the foreseeable future much like iTunes remains the dominant music download service. (The only danger is really from Microsoft if it ever decides to get it's act together) All the while the traditional distribution of PC-Games is in steady decline. Walk into any HMV/gamestop and you will only find a tiny PC-Games section in comparison to the consoles. This is not due to declining sales as PC-Games are actually growing year on year, but the majority of this new growth is being driven by online distribution.

I predict that the next generation of consoles will see a major shift to online distribution where you will buy and download full games online not just expansions/add-ons and arcade games.

I doubt that company's pay much towards distribution of patches, it would make more sense for a set figure per download or registration on Steam going to Valve for a set amount of time ie; 1 year.

Not being privy to there accounts neither I or you can say for sure.

But the bulk of their cash is being funded directly by game sales. As sales increase, money is found for the maintenance and upgrading of their services. Which in turn will cost more money. Its a horrific circle for a business to be in, clearly relying on constant increasing sales for their business model. Most firms would shed costs, fire staff etc to meet demand. But Valve would still have to maintain to costs in order to provide the necessary quality of service. The Costs are a hard relatively unchangeable constant, their income isn't.

thebman · 26-02-2009 06:34PM

Not really the majority of people play new games most so as new games come out the user bases migrate to them and the old services use feck all bandwidth except for really popular online titles in which case it is viable to support them because the next iteration of the game is guaranteed to make a lot of sales. This means expanding infrastructure occurs a lot less than most people think.

If it doesn't make a lot of sales, in a lot of cases, the user base will fragment. Half on the new and half on the old and then people will get annoyed by the fragmentation of the community and find a new game which means more sales again for them and mostly the same number of people playing the games.

The games industry is inherently about new sales and will always have new sales as it is basically the same as the movie industry.

Very few people buy a game and play it forever, the whole concept is to get people hooked and they'll keep moving to newer titles to get the next best thing or because the same experience cannot offer what a new experience can offer.

I think its a pretty sound business model. Add the possibility of ad revenue in their forums/community and the ads on the update progress bar and you can keep the service running with little investment. You'd also be surprised how few people it takes to support this infrastructure.

Grim. · 26-02-2009 07:56PM

SeantheMan wrote: »

Although its terrible that they do it, its quite understandable for them to do it. Because theres a market there for it

Theres always lazy people willing to pay extra to save themselves having to go the shop and queue (a group unfortunately I'm a part of myself )

its not just that though the closest game/game stop is 25 or 30 miles away from me and as i cant dive its not worth the bus fairs etc when you can just buy from steam and be playing a couple of hours later sure play are cheap but **** me there slow sometimes

Sierra Oscar · 26-02-2009 07:56PM

The problem with third party games on Steam is the fact that many publishers do not distinguish between retail copies of their games and digital copies - and thus apply the same RRP price.

It is the publishers who set the prices on Steam, some set decent competitive prices and others just set what they recommend retailers set.

Blazer · 26-02-2009 08:03PM

Saying that I bought Crysis:Warhead for €24 on steam.
Local Gamestop? €44.99 lol..X-tra vision was €29.99.

Think it's the first time I've ever seen Steam cheaper than the shops..

CyberGhost · 27-02-2009 01:02AM

Steam is a great service, you can go anywhere, on any machine with just your username/password and your games are available to you, once you are finished, unless the computer has a keylogger, your games are pretty safe.

However, I don't need my games to be available to me anywhere I go, cause I rarely play games "outside" and it takes a lot of time to download a game, so I still very much prefer the hard copy... I just feel more secure with it, what if I don't have internet connection then what?

Also, while Valve games have great integration, auto-patching and in-game gizmos, other non-valve games don't have that, as far as I know you just download them and that's it, no auto patching, nothing.... If valve offered all the other games the same integration and updates it would be more worth it buying from them.

Overheal · 27-02-2009 06:28AM

Before the regional pricing came in about 3 months ago Steam was still quite awesome for Europeans but now youre all getting screwed, which does blow.

Before that (living in Clare, with fcukall internet) the idea that I had to connect to the internet to install a game was very untenable for a number of years. Living back on the East Coast thats not at all an issue, and typically its the Shelf Stores that will try to rob you blind - im lookin' at best buy. And Gamestop is so not a PC gaming chain.

Agent Smith · 27-02-2009 07:04AM

thebman wrote: »

I imagine they aren't actually allowed turn it into a subscription service at this stage.

Firstly there is the outcry from the people using the service.

Secondly there is the fact that they will have charged for it twice since that was included in the cost of the game by their current business model.

The day you have to Pay a subscription to steam, is the day they can shove it up their hole.

I bought the game, I dont want to someday just have to pay to play the damm thing! If i Wanted someting that would keep charging me to play it, I'd be a WOWhead by now

Davidius · 27-02-2009 04:35PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The problem with third party games on Steam is the fact that many publishers do not distinguish between retail copies of their games and digital copies - and thus apply the same RRP price.

It is the publishers who set the prices on Steam, some set decent competitive prices and others just set what they recommend retailers set.

As far as I've heard, Valve were the ones to suggest the $=€ conversion rate in the first place, essentially making Steam a rip-off.

And even so, Valve have full control over the pricing on their own software. It costs more to buy their software from them than it does to buy it in retail.

The only real problem I can see is that Valve were being lazy with exchange rates and decided that we'd all take it in the arse with Steam's prices.

thebman · 27-02-2009 04:59PM

Yeah they need to get their act together on pricing. Left 4 Dead was cheaper in Game in Liffey Vally at launch than on Steam. That just doesn't make any sense.

Kirby · 27-02-2009 05:55PM

The conversion thing is a complete joke tbh. I was all set to buy Empire : total war from them until i noticed that with the new prices it was 50 euro. Feck that.

The sooner they go back to a proper conversion rate that ISNT 1:1 I will start shopping there. Until they do, They wont be getting a cent off me.

Kirijoleth · 01-03-2009 09:26PM

The trick with Steam is to wait and keep an eye on their weekend deals, all you need is a bit of patience

A few weekends ago you could have purchased Left4Dead for half price. Also if like me you are one of those people that have problems with SecuROM protected game disks the only other hassle free option is Steam.

Fnz · 02-03-2009 05:23AM

Kirijoleth wrote: »

A few weekends ago you could have purchased Left4Dead for half price

That's true, but I'm fed up waiting for Valve to make some statement regarding the price inequality between regions...

Half price sale of downloaded EU version of L4D = €22

... and there was me paying the full €29.99 in Xtravision a week prior to the sale. :rolleyes:

If we had access to the UK store during the sale period I could have actually got the game at half price (€15).

pixelburp · 02-03-2009 08:46AM

Steam is like any other shop, you can't expect every product in there to be a magnificent bargain; the other week I managed to pick up Beyond Good & Evil for only 5euro, so the bargains are there to be had, just don't be in such a hurry to buy your digital copy of Generic Gun Shooter 5 & shop around.

Warts and all, I think Steam are to be applauded; they are centralising a typically fractured platform (the PC), putting emphasis on the buyer / community not the developer & generally steering clear of the more draconian methods of DRM.

dreamers75 · 20-03-2009 09:48PM

HAWX 50 on release with blazing angels 1 free

Play.com have it for 23
game have it for 25

Blazing angels 1 9.99 Blazing angels 2 9.99

OR buy both in the pack for 24.99 :eek:

Lafortezza · 21-03-2009 08:54AM

Steam is great if you're lazy about getting new games, and the weekend deals can sometimes be amazing. Bioshock for less than the price of a pint without having to leave my house? Sweet!

Creamy Goodness · 21-03-2009 11:33AM

lafortezza wrote: »

Steam is great if you're lazy about getting new games, and the weekend deals can sometimes be amazing. Bioshock for less than the price of a pint without having to leave my house? Sweet!

given the option of bioshock or a pint, i'd rather the pint :P

that being said the deals are awesome, i got left4dead for around €25.

5uspect · 21-03-2009 12:01PM

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

given the option of bioshock or a pint, i'd rather the pint :P

that being said the deals are awesome, i got left4dead for around €25.

Yeah, me too, on both counts.

thebman · 21-03-2009 12:05PM

I checked the price of L4D there and it is back up to 45 euro, god damn it

5uspect · 21-03-2009 12:46PM

Oh they had a half price sale a couple of months ago. I even started a thread on it in the Half-life forum. Just keep an eye out.

thebman · 21-03-2009 01:30PM

5uspect wrote: »

Oh they had a half price sale a couple of months ago. I even started a thread on it in the Half-life forum. Just keep an eye out.

Yeah I know cheers, must keep an eye out a bit better. I don't go to the store very often as my laptop is specs are fast becoming outdated. L4D I could handle though

fugazied · 23-03-2009 12:25AM

You can still get the hard copy if you can find it cheaper, then add it in steam and that way you can see existing steam friends etc.

I like steam because I don't have to worry about lost cds etc. However if a game is cheaper as a hard copy just buy it that way.

pixelburp · 23-03-2009 08:41AM

Well like everything else retail, it's caveat emptor; if it's more expensive on Steam, don't buy it & don't be so damned lazy.

wayne040576 · 23-03-2009 09:12AM

Seems people who bought the boxed version of Last Remnant cannot play it because it isn't officially released on Steam until next month and it requires steam for activation:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-last-remnant-is-unplayable-on-pc

ShadowHearth · 23-03-2009 02:59PM

SeantheMan wrote: »

Its not just a Store !

Yes, they are often dearer than most other game retailers.
But the fact that you can purchase a game...and then download it infinite number of times to infinite number of machines is excellent !
Gone is the need for CDs/DVDs

Also there is a huge back catalogue of games you can buy

Thats just the store part,

Then theres the STEAM community, Friends List and Groups, In game comms.
Its like xfire/msn/gamespy all in 1 lovely well presented easily managed form specifically for gaming.

I hated steam at the beginning, it was one of the most annoying programs along with ICQ and IRC that ive ever used.

Now it is the foundation of my gaming scene

Now your story is beutifull as rainbow, but here the sh*t hits the fan.

I bought Dow2 in shop for 35eu, and it activates it self on steam...

So 50eu on steam, and 35 in shop and they bouth working on steam...

Steam just got out of controll. It used to be such a good platform for games, but now, they dont even look outside theyr window to see prices in shops!

Overheal · 23-03-2009 04:18PM

so do something about it. Gabe isn't going to hear you here. Why don't you write him a letter? His email is on valvesoftware.com for all to see.

you'll possibly have noticed though that valve does not operate any corporate offices outside of WA. Perhaps you could start by convincing them to establish a european branch to oversee your pricing needs.

Cuddlesworth · 23-03-2009 04:46PM

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Now your story is beutifull as rainbow, but here the sh*t hits the fan.

I bought Dow2 in shop for 35eu, and it activates it self on steam...

So 50eu on steam, and 35 in shop and they bouth working on steam...

Steam just got out of controll. It used to be such a good platform for games, but now, they dont even look outside theyr window to see prices in shops!

I will say this again and keep saying it until people understand. The publishers decide the price the retailer gets the game in at. The retailer includes Steam as well as others like Game, Gamestop wallmart etc...

The brick and mortar stores, in the usual fashion of a company trying to hold its head above water are inflating prices sold through digital sales. They are doing this through the fact that they still hold a huge percentage of the overall sales, but they are losing this daily.

The penny arcade game was a perfect example of the types of offers being put to people.

Overheal · 23-03-2009 05:54PM

Which is a strange thing innit?

I mean, anytime you go into Gamestop or similar, you will notice that PC games might take up a shelf or two, whereas the console market is still huge and stable. Most places I ever went when I was in ireland sold a handful of AAA PC titles, some bottom of the barrel shareware-esque titles and that was it. So I don't get personally how Brick and Mortar is still pulling in so much cash for these publishers when they are providing fcuk all variety. At least stateside Gamestop Walmart and all those places see fit to keep a respectable collection of PC titles - in the case of walmart they line up as many pc games as they do all the console games.

So I really don't understand the brick and mortar argument, because it does not hold up to scrutiny when you look at the US market, where steam is almost always cheaper, and the retail offerings in europe are slim pickings at best.

Cuddlesworth · 23-03-2009 08:34PM

Overheal wrote: »

Which is a strange thing innit?

I mean, anytime you go into Gamestop or similar, you will notice that PC games might take up a shelf or two, whereas the console market is still huge and stable. Most places I ever went when I was in ireland sold a handful of AAA PC titles, some bottom of the barrel shareware-esque titles and that was it. So I don't get personally how Brick and Mortar is still pulling in so much cash for these publishers when they are providing fcuk all variety. At least stateside Gamestop Walmart and all those places see fit to keep a respectable collection of PC titles - in the case of walmart they line up as many pc games as they do all the console games.

When you go to a publisher as a retail organizations the negotiations include console games etc. They would view pc games now as a small percentage of their market, but still a percentage. And over all they sell far more and make far more money then online pc retailers like Steam. So they are in a better position to demand prices online are kept high. In the same way with Valve themselves they can force online prices to a certain margin because they want to be able to get a hold of that bricks and mortar market.

The problem lies with the certainty that console sales for the immediate future will remain in stores keeping the problem of price fixing ongoing.

Overheal wrote: »

So I really don't understand the brick and mortar argument, because it does not hold up to scrutiny when you look at the US market, where steam is almost always cheaper, and the retail offerings in europe are slim pickings at best.

The Europe market has always been screwed, I think its to do with the need for a large number of multiple language conversions and differing tax laws over a relatively small area. Either that or they just reckon they can get away with it. Remember there is still no guarantee this won't be dictated by the publisher rather then Steam.

Fnz · 23-03-2009 09:35PM

Overheal wrote: »

so do something about it. Gabe isn't going to hear you here. Why don't you write him a letter? His email is on valvesoftware.com for all to see.

Don't know if you're aware of it but Valve won't even respond to their community and customers when asked about the pricing on their own forums.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770231

.... 4,666 replies at time of writing. The thread is 3 months old.

Steam: Whats the point of it?

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