Tim Ryan to Toulon!!

thomond2006 · 28-04-2009 03:07PM #1

Munster prop Ryan set to join Top 14’s Toulon

By Edward Newman
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
MUNSTER prop Timmy Ryan looks poised to follow Leinster’s Felipe Contepomi to French Top 14 club, Toulon this summer.
Ryan, who’ll turn 25 in June, hit the headlines earlier this season for his barnstorming first-half performance against the All Blacks last November.

The tight-head was on a development contract with Munster but, since that outing against New Zealand, the Cork man has made just four more appearances as a replacement. However, he proved an important cog in Cork Con’s rise to the top of the AIB League in the regulation season.

Ryan took up rugby at a young age with Highfield, was capped at Ireland Youth level in 2002 as a Number 8 and played in that position at the U-19 World Championships in Paris in 2003. He moved to the front row in 2004.
His brother, Academy member Dave Ryan, also a prop, is expected to be upgraded to a development contract by Tony McGahan this summer.

Ryan’s proposed move will send him to one of rugby’s glamour clubs on the south-east coast of France.

Toulon’s wealthy owner, Mourad Boudjellal, who made his millions in the comic-strip business, has been frustrated at the lack of progress of the club this season.

Earlier this season, Boudjellal hired former Springbok coach Jake White as a consultant to advise as to the way forward. One of the key recommendations was for a director of rugby to be appointed above the coach, currently former All Black captain Tana Umaga.

Philippe Saint-Andre takes the reins as director of rugby this summer, and Ryan could be amongst some exalted company in pre-season: Pierre Mignoni joins from Clermont Auvergne, hooker Sebastien Bruno follows Saint-Andre from Sale while Jonny Wilkinson is also considering an offer. Jerry Collins, Johann Van Niekierk, Sonny Bill Williams are also on the books there.

Meanwhile, Frankie Sheahan could be set for a move to Top 14 club, Brive.

The multi-capped Munster hooker, out of contract at the end of this season, travelled to watch Brive take on Montauban last weekend. The French club, which has England’s Andy Goode and Steve Thompson on its books, are believed to be keen to sign Sheahan on a two-year deal.

This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Who could have seen this coming?? :eek::eek::eek:

anonymous_joe · 28-04-2009 03:15PM

(Almost) 25 and not going anywhere for Munster any time soon.

Makes perfect sense.

Good luck to him.

spoon · 28-04-2009 03:59PM

With Pucci going and the Bull getting on in years I would have prefered to be keeping youngish props in the club. However, he probably would of had to wait a year or two to start getting a lot of game time so it makes sense from his side of things to go.

bamboozle · 28-04-2009 04:17PM

is that the same lad who was anonymous against Clontarf for Cork Con last weekend?

TarfHead · 28-04-2009 04:29PM

bamboozle wrote: »

is that the same lad who was anonymous against Clontarf for Cork Con last weekend?

Ouch

!

Not wrong, though.

Timothy Bryce · 28-04-2009 04:45PM

bamboozle wrote: »

is that the same lad who was anonymous against Clontarf for Cork Con last weekend?

The very man

7mountpleasant · 28-04-2009 05:52PM

Was very poor against ballinahinch also, still though no harm to get an irish prop playing in france, gotta be good expeirience.

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 06:39PM

Has been rumoured for a good while. A similar move was great for MOD, so hopefully Ryan will come back a better player for it.

anonymous_joe · 28-04-2009 07:46PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Has been rumoured for a good while. A similar move was great for MOD, so hopefully Ryan will come back a better player for it.

Were there not rumours of MOD going back?

Don't see much chance of him making it internationally or at Munster, given that MOD, POC, DOC, Leo Cullen and Bob Casey are all similar in age. So if he had the desire for weekly rugby he'd definitely be able to find a place back in France I reckon. Solid player after all.

[Jackass] · 28-04-2009 08:03PM

Not a great move to be letting him go I reckon. Looking at players coming through at Munster it's been a long time since they've brought through a forward of great promise...probably the most recent being Leamy who is very good, but not up to the same level of Munster back row players we're used to and Donnacha Ryan who is promising at the moment - probably there stand out "back up" or development forward has been Niall Ronan of Leinster!!!

So letting players like this go isn't great for Munster Rugby in my opinion, the raw talent already there doesn't seem to be exceptional (not that I'm an expert on the Munster squad by any stretch of the imagination!!!) and it seems a lot of coaching will be involved in having players at the right level and no better place than Munster to learn off the countless legends they've produced up front.

In the backs they've plenty of real top class promise and develop excellent players though - Earls, O'Leary, Murphy so far and I'm sure more to follow!

Junior · 28-04-2009 08:27PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

no better place than Munster to learn off the countless legends they've produced up front.

In the backs they've plenty of real top class promise and develop excellent players though - Earls, O'Leary, Murphy so far and I'm sure more to follow!

Is anyone else scared that there's going to be a seismic event now that Leinster are producing the best forwards and Munster the best backs ?

And I mean that in a general sense, I don't want to get into a debate of Player A v Player B, it just seems to have shifted that way in the last season or so ?

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 08:42PM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Were there not rumours of MOD going back?

Don't see much chance of him making it internationally or at Munster, given that MOD, POC, DOC, Leo Cullen and Bob Casey are all similar in age. So if he had the desire for weekly rugby he'd definitely be able to find a place back in France I reckon. Solid player after all.

Tim Ryan is a tighthead prop. You're thinking of Donncha Ryan.

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 08:56PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

Not a great move to be letting him go I reckon. Looking at players coming through at Munster it's been a long time since they've brought through a forward of great promise...probably the most recent being Leamy who is very good, but not up to the same level of Munster back row players we're used to and Donnacha Ryan who is promising at the moment - probably there stand out "back up" or development forward has been Niall Ronan of Leinster!!!

So letting players like this go isn't great for Munster Rugby in my opinion, the raw talent already there doesn't seem to be exceptional (not that I'm an expert on the Munster squad by any stretch of the imagination!!!) and it seems a lot of coaching will be involved in having players at the right level and no better place than Munster to learn off the countless legends they've produced up front.

In the backs they've plenty of real top class promise and develop excellent players though - Earls, O'Leary, Murphy so far and I'm sure more to follow!

But the reason we haven't brought players through is because our first team, for the most part, doesn't need replacing.

However, for the sake of debate, here's a list of probable young replacements for the current team.

Horan - Darragh Hurley, Dave Ryan
Flannery - Fogarty, Cronin, Varley (Cronin and Varley with Connacht and Wasps respectively at the minute)
Hayes - Buckley, Dave Ryan
O'Connell - Donncha Ryan
O'Callaghan - Dave Foley
Quinlan - Holland
Wallace - Ronan, O'Donnell, Grace
Leamy - Peter O'Mahoney
O'Leary - Duncan Williams, Murray (?)
O'Gara - Burke (?)
Dowling - McCarthy
Mafi - Evan Ryan
Earls - B. Murphy
Howlett - O'Boyle
Warwick - Hurley

Of those, some obviously won't make it, and some might only be ML or HEC standard, but there's a team of players waiting to come through.

From seeing Cronin play, I think he could be a great player, as could Darragh Hurley. I've only seen bits of Foley and O'Donnell, but both are playing week-in, week-out for Boh's in the AIL despite only being 21 or 22 and are highly rated. O'Mahoney, Murray, Burke and McCarthy are part of the Irish u-20's team and looked pretty good all the way through schools etc. Grace is only in his early 20's but has been playing for Shannon in the AIL and for the Irish 7's team.

Obviously, the team we currently have is exceptional, we might never have a team as good again, but imo, there is some talent coming through.

anonymous_joe · 28-04-2009 09:07PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Tim Ryan is a tighthead prop. You're thinking of Donncha Ryan.

I know that.

I was talking about Mick O'Driscoll.

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 09:13PM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I know that.

I was talking about Mick O'Driscoll.

Em, Mick O'Driscoll is a current International, he just picked a grand slam medal a few weeks back.

[Jackass] · 28-04-2009 09:30PM

Junior wrote: »

Is anyone else scared that there's going to be a seismic event now that Leinster are producing the best forwards and Munster the best backs ?

And I mean that in a general sense, I don't want to get into a debate of Player A v Player B, it just seems to have shifted that way in the last season or so ?

Ah I don't know about that. Of the last couple of seasons, at international level, the 3 major players to come through in the backs have been Fitzgerald, Kearney & Bowe...

Of the players still coming through considered either promising or very promising for regular international representation at this stage there's Sexton, McFadden, Earls, Murphy, Cave...

Good Leinster representation in both sets.

Not to turn this into Leinster v Munster (despite the week that's in it - but only picking them as they produce the lions share of Irish international players) of the Irish Under 20's team this year who came very close to a double grand slam, 8 of the regular starters in the 15 were from the Leinster academy vs just 3 from the Munster academy...As with the U20s who won the grand slam a few season ago, this was mostly Leinster players - the likes of which are coming through the acedemy now (like Sean O'Brien & Paul O'Donohue - quality and very promising players) where as Munster are looking to sign more and more Leinster academy players - Felix Jones, Niall Ronan... and Leinster can still afford to lose players of the quality of Willis, Keatley, Carr to other Irish provinces also and still churning out the likes of Toner, Heaslip, Healy etc. etc. etc. on top of all the others...

Now I know Leinster have signed Munster based players like Hogan, Keogh & Reddan, but these are all senior players filling mostly just back-up roles in the more senior end of the squad from an age when the Leinster academy didn't exist. The first generation have only just arrived - My point is just that Munster don't seem to be producing the best "natural" talent out there and may possibly depend on coaching players up to their best level - but when guys like Tim Ryan (who I thought was the answer to Hayes?) are being let go, they're not doing themselves any favours!!

anonymous_joe · 28-04-2009 09:34PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Em, Mick O'Driscoll is a current International, he just picked a grand slam medal a few weeks back.

Well yeah, but he's not going to unseat either of the two current incumbents is he?

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 09:37PM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well yeah, but he's not going to unseat either of the two current incumbents is he?

No, but who is?

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 09:39PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

Ah I don't know about that. Of the last couple of seasons, at international level, the 3 major players to come through in the backs have been Fitzgerald, Kearney & Bowe...

Of the players still coming through considered either promising or very promising for regular international representation at this stage there's Sexton, McFadden, Earls, Murphy, Cave...

Good Leinster representation in both sets.

Not to turn this into Leinster v Munster (despite the week that's in it - but only picking them as they produce the lions share of Irish international players) of the Irish Under 20's team this year who came very close to a double grand slam, 8 of the regular starters in the 15 were from the Leinster academy vs just 3 from the Munster academy...As with the U20s who won the grand slam a few season ago, this was mostly Leinster players - the likes of which are coming through the acedemy now (like Sean O'Brien & Paul O'Donohue - quality and very promising players) where as Munster are looking to sign more and more Leinster academy players - Felix Jones, Niall Ronan... and Leinster can still afford to lose players of the quality of Willis, Keatley, Carr to other Irish provinces also and still churning out the likes of Toner, Heaslip, Healy etc. etc. etc. on top of all the others...

Now I know Leinster have signed Munster based players like Hogan, Keogh & Reddan, but these are all senior players filling mostly just back-up roles in the more senior end of the squad from an age when the Leinster academy didn't exist. The first generation have only just arrived - My point is just that Munster don't seem to be producing the best "natural" talent out there and may possibly depend on coaching players up to their best level - but when guys like Tim Ryan (who I thought was the answer to Hayes?) are being let go, they're not doing themselves any favours!!

Munster have always had less underage players than both Ulster and Leinster. You'd expect that to be reflected in underage national teams. That being said, the development squad that recently beat France had a good number of Munster players and very few Ulster players.

danthefan · 28-04-2009 09:41PM

Mick O'Driscoll did not play one minute of 6N rugby. He's not really a current international.

As for Leinster producing the forwards and Munster the backs, can't see it going down that road. Munster have now produced a back, without much beyond that, and 3 of the backline are still foreign and won't be shifted for the time being (outside backs that is).

[Jackass] · 28-04-2009 09:54PM

But where are they going to come from? I mean in the "modern game" of academys and professionalisim there's usually a very clear blood line from academy to senior...I don't know the Munster sqaud well enough to be able to put down their most promising players, but a Leinster academy team (players who have surfaced in the last 4 years or so max) a lot of the Leinster players are either playing first team rugby, on the verge of it or are internationals (or Lions at that!!)...

1. Healy
2.
3.
4. Toner
5.
6. O'Brien / McLaughlin
7. Ronan
8. Heaslip
9. O'Donohoe / Willis
10. Sexton / Keatley
11. Fitzgerald
12. O'Malley
13. McFadden
14. Carr / Felix Jones
15. Kearney

Actually looking at that team though, there still seems to be a worrynig lack of front 5 players of quality coming from Leinster with only 2 of note (although the academy is almost half front row players now!!)

I'm just looking at European / Irish rugby 10 years from now - Leinster academy seem to be churning out players all over the field, Munster seems a lot more like a drip feed (although the players that have come through are for the most part class). Maybe you're right though, maybe this Munster team is just too good for any young players to get a chance. I mean if it takes the talent of Keith Earls to get a regular starting spot from the academy then that's got to be a good thing!! I'm just not sure that's the case - I just can't see where they're all going to come from!

(I put O'Brien at 6 cause that's where he'll end up when Rocky leaves imo don't think he's a 7)

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 10:06PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

But where are they going to come from? I mean in the "modern game" of academys and professionalisim there's usually a very clear blood line from academy to senior...I don't know the Munster sqaud well enough to be able to put down their most promising players, but a Leinster academy team (players who have surfaced in the last 4 years or so max) a lot of the Leinster players are either playing first team rugby, on the verge of it or are internationals (or Lions at that!!)...

1. Healy
2.
3.
4. Toner
5.
6. O'Brien / McLaughlin
7. Ronan
8. Heaslip
9. O'Donohoe / Willis
10. Sexton / Keatley
11. Fitzgerald
12. O'Malley
13. McFadden
14. Carr / Felix Jones
15. Kearney

Actually looking at that team though, there still seems to be a worrynig lack of front 5 players of quality coming from Leinster with only 2 of note (although the academy is almost half front row players now!!)

I'm just looking at European / Irish rugby 10 years from now - Leinster academy seem to be churning out players all over the field, Munster seems a lot more like a drip feed (although the players that have come through are for the most part class). Maybe you're right though, maybe this Munster team is just too good for any young players to get a chance. I mean if it takes the talent of Keith Earls to get a regular starting spot from the academy then that's got to be a good thing!! I'm just not sure that's the case - I just can't see where they're all going to come from!

(I put O'Brien at 6 cause that's where he'll end up when Rocky leaves imo don't think he's a 7)

Em, I listed out a second team of Irish youngsters (for the most part) who have either played for Munster or are in the Academy. That's where they are going to come from.

[Jackass] · 28-04-2009 10:45PM

The majority of them are just academy players - we all know that Munster have an academy - I left out the likes of Jame Hagan, Tom Sexton, David Kearney, Shane Monahan, Kyle Tonetti ... all going to be massive players of the future for Leinster - I was listing a team of players who are either first team players, internationals or Lions from the Leinster academy...with the exception of 1 or 2 they all play regualr ML and European rugby ... with the exception of 1 or 2 I'm not sure many of those players you've listed have even started a ML game...

I'm not measuring mickeys here - I know Munster have an academy, I'm just talking about the standard of player and the impact they've had at senior level ... for whatever reason the impact thus far has been very limited from the Munster academy ... I can see where this is going and I'm not trying to bring it down that road - this all stemmed from me talking about how Munster rugby will be in 10 years time - players of Ryans ability shouldn't be let go as, from what I can see, there's feck all coming through compared to the other "major" teams academy!!

anonymous_joe · 28-04-2009 10:46PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

No, but who is?

I think if they'd had the international appearances Cullen, Casey or Mick O'Driscoll could probably have challenged those two. ^^

In terms of youth, no-one looks outstanding just yet.

[Jackass] · 28-04-2009 10:53PM

In fairness O'Kelly was the stallwart in there for years in between the pair of them - there is a distinct gap of talent at second row now compared to generation just going (Cullen, Casey, O'Kelly, O'Driscoll - as back up for arguably the best second row pairing at any level - without a doubt the best pairing at club / provincial level).

But the likes of Ryan, Caldwell & Toner have already emerged, Caldwell for me being the most promising, a certainty to be the next new cap second row from this country.

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 11:00PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

The majority of them are just academy players - we all know that Munster have an academy - I left out the likes of Jame Hagan, Tom Sexton, David Kearney, Shane Monahan, Kyle Tonetti ... all going to be massive players of the future for Leinster - I was listing a team of players who are either first team players, internationals or Lions from the Leinster academy...with the exception of 1 or 2 they all play regualr ML and European rugby ... with the exception of 1 or 2 I'm not sure many of those players you've listed have even started a ML game...

I'm not measuring mickeys here - I know Munster have an academy, I'm just talking about the standard of player and the impact they've had at senior level ... for whatever reason the impact thus far has been very limited from the Munster academy ... I can see where this is going and I'm not trying to bring it down that road - this all stemmed from me talking about how Munster rugby will be in 10 years time - players of Ryans ability shouldn't be let go as, from what I can see, there's feck all coming through compared to the other "major" teams academy!!

They're not "just" academy players, for the most part they feature with the top AIL teams or for Munster.

Both Hurley's have lots of gametime with Con, as does Holland and Evan Ryan. McCarthy, Murray and Burke have played for Garryowen's senior team this season, O'Donnell and Foley play week-in, week-out with UL/Boh's, Grace with Shannon.

Ryan (like Ross before him) needs to move to get more games, good luck to him, if it works out and he comes to Ireland, so much the better for Irish rugby.

If Leinster had kept Dowling, J. Murphy, or Ronan, would they be as good players as they are now?

If Munster had kept J. Fogarty, S. Keogh, T. Hogan, M. Ross, E. Reddan would they be as good players as they are?

Amazotheamazing · 28-04-2009 11:01PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

In fairness O'Kelly was the stallwart in there for years in between the pair of them - there is a distinct gap of talent at second row now compared to generation just going (Cullen, Casey, O'Kelly, O'Driscoll - as back up for arguably the best second row pairing at any level - without a doubt the best pairing at club / provincial level).

But the likes of Ryan, Caldwell & Toner have already emerged, Caldwell for me being the most promising, a certainty to be the next new cap second row from this country.

Ryan's already been capped.

SomeFool · 29-04-2009 01:51AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Ryan (like Ross before him) needs to move to get more games, good luck to him, if it works out and he comes to Ireland, so much the better for Irish rugby.

Great point.... It shows ambition going to the top 14 for your career in the front row and I hope it works out for him too.

Size=everything · 29-04-2009 08:38AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

They're not "just" academy players, for the most part they feature with the top AIL teams or for Munster.

Both Hurley's have lots of gametime with Con, as does Holland and Evan Ryan. McCarthy, Murray and Burke have played for Garryowen's senior team this season, O'Donnell and Foley play week-in, week-out with UL/Boh's, Grace with Shannon.

Ryan (like Ross before him) needs to move to get more games, good luck to him, if it works out and he comes to Ireland, so much the better for Irish rugby.

If Leinster had kept Dowling, J. Murphy, or Ronan, would they be as good players as they are now?

If Munster had kept J. Fogarty, S. Keogh, T. Hogan, M. Ross, E. Reddan would they be as good players as they are?

Emmmmm Jackass just said he is talking about players just out of the academy that actually play for the province senior team of course there are Munster youth players playing in the AIL sure theres not one Leinster academy player that isnt playing in the AIL! Leinster have the following talents straight out of their academy and playing for Leinster under 23 :
Cian Healy
Devin Toner
McFadden
Luke Fitzgerald
Rob Kearney
Sean O'Brien
Jonathan Sexton
Heaslip (24 I know but still)
Paul O'Donaghue

As well as having some of the biggest prospects in rugby in their acadamey in :
Tom Sexton
Jack Mcgrath
Ian McKinley
Dave Kearney
Kyle Tonetti
Dominic Ryan

And then being responsible for the development of:
Nial Ronan
Felix Jones
Fionn Carr
Ciaran Willis

Not trying to turn this into a dickwaving contest at all but in all honesty who have Munster brought through of note recently?
Earls
Ryan
Dowling
Hurley

As for Munster's academy players there really isn't much I think maybe 3 players started with the Irish U20s and they weren't anything to write home about.

bamboozle · 29-04-2009 09:19AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Em, Mick O'Driscoll is a current International, he just picked a grand slam medal a few weeks back.

and if carlsberg are ever doing an add about a lucky rugby player MOD would be the man to choose, how he was able to be on the grand slam squad after a season playing AIL and some Magner's rugby is purely down to his association with Kidney.

Serenity Now! · 29-04-2009 09:19AM

danthefan wrote: »

Mick O'Driscoll did not play one minute of 6N rugby

Wrong.

Tim Ryan to Toulon!!

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