Playoffs next season in Magners League.

thomond2006 · 07-05-2009 05:13PM #1

I think the playoffs were a badly needed introduction into the ML. It will give average teams like Edinburgh/Glasgow/Scarlets something to fight for instead of playing dead rubbers by Christmas.

Overall, it will make the Magners League more competitive.

What do ye think??

Blisterman · 07-05-2009 05:39PM

I welcome the plans. Better than finishing off with meaningless matches, like this year. A play off system will bring some excitement to the end of the tournament.

chupacabra · 07-05-2009 05:47PM

Blisterman wrote: »

I welcome the plans. Better than finishing off with meaningless matches, like this year. A play off system will bring some excitement to the end of the tournament.

Aye, but its also a slight bit unfair towards the teams that perform week in week out and work hard to make it to the top of the table only to not be guaranteed the league win. Doesent matter in tournys like the Super 14 this year where things are so tight, even with 2 rounds to go i have no idea who will be in the semis.

phog · 07-05-2009 05:53PM

Playoffs are the way to go, the league needs something to liven it up.

Stealdo · 07-05-2009 06:12PM

chupacabra wrote: »

Aye, but its also a slight bit unfair towards the teams that perform week in week out and work hard to make it to the top of the table only to not be guaranteed the league win. Doesent matter in tournys like the Super 14 this year where things are so tight, even with 2 rounds to go i have no idea who will be in the semis.

I can see your point here for sure, but I think it's a badly needed thing. In a way it adds an element of managing your squad through the season as well with the coach being able to take a few more risks in certain games.
It was pretty anti-climactic this season with Munster winning the league without playing on the particular day.

Can you imagine the build up now, were there to be the possibility of Munster v Leinster in the Magner's League final?

[Jackass] · 07-05-2009 06:28PM

At first I was against them, but now I'm a total convert and 100% behind them.

This season and last season are good example of the league being a bit of a foregone conclussion, but i you take this season if there were play-offs, Leinster & Ospreys would still have a lot to play for to get a home semi and Cardiff making a late comeback would spice up the Munster game as they'd need a win to be able to catch Edinburgh, then on the last day, Cardiff would play Edinburgh for the 4th spot in the play-offs .... With Munster, Leinster, Ospreys & Cardiff - those would be cracking games and for 2 of the teams it would be the last chance of silverware this season and for 2 of them it would be looking for trying to get as much silverware or even doing a double! (obviously this would be before HEC final, no it would still be on at least!)

A Munster v Leinster Magners League final this season? After Croke Park? It'd fill Croke Park again I tells ya!!

Play-Offs all the way, the league will be at a new level again next season - it just keeps getting better and better - looking forward to the play-offs already!!

sock puppet · 07-05-2009 06:57PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

At first I was against them, but now I'm a total convert and 100% behind them.

This season and last season are good example of the league being a bit of a foregone conclussion, but i you take this season if there were play-offs, Leinster & Ospreys would still have a lot to play for to get a home semi and Cardiff making a late comeback would spice up the Munster game as they'd need a win to be able to catch Edinburgh, then on the last day, Cardiff would play Edinburgh for the 4th spot in the play-offs .... With Munster, Leinster, Ospreys & Cardiff - those would be cracking games and for 2 of the teams it would be the last chance of silverware this season and for 2 of them it would be looking for trying to get as much silverware or even doing a double! (obviously this would be before HEC final, no it would still be on at least!)

A Munster v Leinster Magners League final this season? After Croke Park? It'd fill Croke Park again I tells ya!!

Play-Offs all the way, the league will be at a new level again next season - it just keeps getting better and better - looking forward to the play-offs already!!

I'm not so sure though I do think they'll bring some improvement. If your looking at this year then the top 4 would already be decided unless Cardiff and Edinburgh were to win and lose all their remaining games respectively. I think in a 10 team league a top 3 would be much better. It will mean at least 1 of Leinster, Munster, Cardiff and Ospreys will lose out. I think a top 4 playoff would be too stale with only Edinburgh and possibly Ulster challenging for the next few years.

Podge_irl · 07-05-2009 07:03PM

Pile of ****e, especially in a ten team league. A league is supposed to test a squad over the course of a season, not over the course of one game - that's what cup rugby is for.

Chucky the tree · 07-05-2009 07:06PM

sock puppet wrote: »

I'm not so sure though I do think they'll bring some improvement. If your looking at this year then the top 4 would already be decided unless Cardiff and Edinburgh were to win and lose all their remaining games respectively. I think in a 10 team league a top 3 would be much better. It will mean at least 1 of Leinster, Munster, Cardiff and Ospreys will lose out. I think a top 4 playoff would be too stale with only Edinburgh and possibly Ulster challenging for the next few years.

You cant really look at it this year though. I mean I'm sure Cardiff, Edinburgh etc took the foot off the gas a long time ago as they knew they had no chance of finishing first, if they had a play-off place to play for though back in january etc then I'm sure all the games would be alot more enjoyable.

sock puppet · 07-05-2009 07:24PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You cant really look at it this year though. I mean I'm sure Cardiff, Edinburgh etc took the foot off the gas a long time ago as they knew they had no chance of finishing first, if they had a play-off place to play for though back in january etc then I'm sure all the games would be alot more enjoyable.

Yeah you're right actually. But I think my point still stands about a 4 team playoff being too much. I'm not sure what they plan on introducing but they could decide to just copy other leagues. I hope it does work though. Getting 50k+ for a ML final would be great.

sm.org · 07-05-2009 07:49PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Pile of ****e, especially in a ten team league. A league is supposed to test a squad over the course of a season, not over the course of one game - that's what cup rugby is for.

Couldn't agree with you more. Playoffs are made for TV nonsense and while they can be exciting they could possibly dilute the standard in a 10 team league. For example Munster/Leinster would only have to win 60% of their games to make the playoffs they would then be free to play their reserves in the other 40%.

NickNolte · 07-05-2009 08:06PM

Maybe I've had my head buried in the sand of the HEC for a bit too long but is this actually happening or is it still up in the air? If it's happening, brilliant! I think the added crescendo will give a lot more impetus to the league. Look at me and my big words.

eroo · 07-05-2009 08:09PM

Blisterman wrote: »

I welcome the plans. Better than finishing off with meaningless matches, like this year. A play off system will bring some excitement to the end of the tournament.

+1

The match against Osprey's may only draw a crowd because of the trophy presentation!

Playoff's will make the Magner's League more attractive to fans.

[Jackass] · 07-05-2009 09:18PM

Plus it's not a 10 team league, it'll be a 12 team league, same as the GP, from the following season as 2 Italian sides are coming in!!

Big matches build the rivalry too! A few play-off finals between Munster & The Ospreys or Leinster & Cardiff etc. will certainly turn up the heat between the sides in regular competition as well as Europe...

More rivalry = more intense action and support. It will be great for the league. Your biggest rivals are the ones you play in big matches often and there is silverware on the line. As well as local rivalries too - but when the both are combined it's even more intense.

phog · 07-05-2009 09:38PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Pile of ****e, especially in a ten team league. A league is supposed to test a squad over the course of a season, not over the course of one game - that's what cup rugby is for.

They could award prize money for the top spot, then have a play-off between the top 4 with the trophy going to the winner.

BTW - you'd need to win the majority of your games to get into the chance of the winner being decided on "one game"

The ML will need to impove the standard of their refs for the knock-out stages of the competition, I'd hate to see James Jones reffing as SF or Final.

zenmonk · 08-05-2009 07:29AM

Last year I wouldn't have been a major fan of a playoff system because I felt that if Munster got their act together they would win the league as it was and if they didn't it would always be held against them that they are a Cup team- well it has happened this year so tick that one off.
I think they will be a good thing for the league and will add a fair bit of excitement to the last 2/3 rounds which as people have said are a dead rubber this year. A semi final and final will boost the profile and one could see the new Landsdowne being full for a Munster v Leinster final or Cardiff full for a Ospreys v Cardiff final. This along with the 2 new Italian provinces will bring the total of games played for the winner from 18 to 24! a longer season by far. Surely there will be games played more often during Autumn intls and 6 nations to accomodate this?

Legion2008 · 08-05-2009 09:59AM

Well given that presently it's a 10 team league (going up to 12 with the Italians the following year) a good compromise could be to have the 2nd/3rd place finishers have a semi with the winner to travel down to the 1st place finishers ground for the final. That way there is still the strong incentive to top the league

justsomebloke · 08-05-2009 10:12AM

truthfully I'm not a fan of this, I Think it takes away from teams who actually work week in week out as they will most likely be eclipsed by teams who come on form at the end of the season. I know some people are saying that the end of this season has now been left with a couple of weeks with nothing to play for, however with this set up we will now be left with even bigger caps during the season where results don't count once they are in the top half come end of season which is an even worse predicament.

However I think an even bigger problem to the playoffs is the HC. The ML has never been fully taken seriously by teams especially Irish Teams. and what will happen is that any Team still in the Semi's of the HC will probably sacrifice the ML playoffs to keep their chances of HC triumph alive.

There is also the problem that if the anglo welsh cup does some how manage to keep going that there will be such a back log of games due to welsh clubs that the season will drag on alot longer then it currently does and may cause problems for internationals espeically with player burn out from all the big games at the end of the season

NickNolte · 08-05-2009 10:24AM

Joe the Santa wrote: »

truthfully I'm not a fan of this, I Think it takes away from teams who actually work week in week out as they will most likely be eclipsed by teams who come on form at the end of the
season.

Surely the playoffs will be between the teams at the top of the table? I assume it's not just going to be a pointless league with a big, 12 team free-for-all at the end of the season?

Blisterman · 08-05-2009 11:25AM

Are they definitely bringing in the Italians? Last I heard it was just a suggestion.

dingbat · 08-05-2009 11:38AM

Blisterman wrote: »

Are they definitely bringing in the Italians? Last I heard it was just a suggestion.

Two franchises, in Rome and Milan, will join the Magners league for the 2010-2011 season.

The easy way to spice up the Magners is to link Heineken Cup qualification directly to your league finishing position. Unfortunately Ireland have no business getting three automatic qualification slots each year.

MG · 08-05-2009 11:53AM

Something like 2/3rds of the Lions come from the Magners so it's full of quality players, yet it's treated like a Mickey Mouse league compared with the GP. Play offs mights help to change that situation.

Digifriendly · 08-05-2009 12:12PM

Joe the Santa wrote: »

There is also the problem that if the anglo welsh cup does some how manage to keep going that there will be such a back log of games due to welsh clubs that the season will drag on alot longer then it currently does and may cause problems for internationals espeically with player burn out from all the big games at the end of the season

This is a very good point. With 4 more games in regular seaon from 2010-11 as well as Anglo-Welsh Cup plus semi-finals and final of ML, how are e.g. Welsh teams going to fit all this in? I hope we don't go back to ML games during 6 nations weekends with teams minus their best players. As in past attendances will suffer if this is the case.

sock puppet · 08-05-2009 03:15PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

This is a very good point. With 4 more games in regular seaon from 2010-11 as well as Anglo-Welsh Cup plus semi-finals and final of ML, how are e.g. Welsh teams going to fit all this in? I hope we don't go back to ML games during 6 nations weekends with teams minus their best players. As in past attendances will suffer if this is the case.

I thought this new British-Irish cup would replace the EDF?

Stealdo · 08-05-2009 03:26PM

dingbat wrote: »

Two franchises, in Rome and Milan, will join the Magners league for the 2010-2011 season.

The easy way to spice up the Magners is to link Heineken Cup qualification directly to your league finishing position. Unfortunately Ireland have no business getting three automatic qualification slots each year.

By comparison to what? With a league that contains 10 teams and has (effectively) 9 automatic qualification spots we'll have at least 3 no matter what way it's carved up. When the Italian teams join I'd imagine they've traded their right to a play off for their 3rd placed team in order to get in (not that it will matter either way) so you'll have a 12 team league with 11 HEC places. It's kind of stupid suggesting that Ireland has no right having 3 spaces unless you're going to cut the ML places to at most 6. Scottish and Italian sides will have automatic qualification for Europe regardless of finishing position. Ireland is the only country that's not over-allocated places from the ML but that's only because Connacht cannot finish ahead of the dragons.

Stealdo · 08-05-2009 03:28PM

sock puppet wrote: »

I thought this new British-Irish cup would replace the EDF?

The British-Irish Cup is a competition for 'A' sides. It won't replace a senior competition.

sock puppet · 08-05-2009 03:50PM

Stealdo wrote: »

The British-Irish Cup is a competition for 'A' sides. It won't replace a senior competition.

Oh right. I forgot it was only on during international windows as well actually.

Digifriendly · 08-05-2009 05:05PM

Stealdo wrote: »

The British-Irish Cup is a competition for 'A' sides. It won't replace a senior competition.

Yes, as pointed out in another thread there are plans for another Anglo-Welsh Cup to replace the present EDF competition. It will feature Welsh regions and English Premiership clubs which is a totally different animal entirely to proposed British - Irish Cup.

Tim Robbins · 08-05-2009 10:46PM

chupacabra wrote: »

Aye, but its also a slight bit unfair towards the teams that perform week in week out and work hard to make it to the top of the table only to not be guaranteed the league win. Doesent matter in tournys like the Super 14 this year where things are so tight, even with 2 rounds to go i have no idea who will be in the semis.

They'll get a home draw for the semi's.

Tim Robbins · 08-05-2009 10:49PM

MG wrote: »

Something like 2/3rds of the Lions come from the Magners so it's full of quality players, yet it's treated like a Mickey Mouse league compared with the GP. Play offs mights help to change that situation.

I think that's rubbish. It doesn't have RTE, Sky Sports and Heineken's putting millions into it and hyping it up. But the players take it seriously.

No league has any team putting its first 15 out every week.

Playoffs next season in Magners League.

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