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Johnny Sexton

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  • #212
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Considering it's pretty widely known that Sexton and Cheika don't get on, it's funny how sport has made Sexton crucial to Cheika plans. Good luck to him on Saturday.


  • #213
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Bah...

    I really hate to hear that. Probably the same fans who were giving out about Sexton when he was playing. Nacewa isn't a great out half, but he was our best option. Wouldn't go as far as saying that Sexton would have been worse, but Sexton needed that time to get his head straight after a bad run of form. I thought our backline looked pretty fluent with Nacewa in, I think if he'd had a little more time to gel with the team he would have made a pretty good operator at 10.

    I will say this. Nacewa was far better at outhalf than Contepomi was.

    Edit: I mean Contepomi AFTER he was put back in. Not the outstanding Felipe of yesteryear.

    Nacewa's a great running out-half, but the game here's not open enough or runny enough to suit that.

    I think he could still do a job for us at out-half, but he wasn't great there when he played tehre this season.

    Also, Sexton had a tough time this season with form, and didn't seem to get the support he needed from the coaching staff, etc, at least from the outside.


  • #214
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Nacewa was far better at outhalf than Contepomi was.

    No he wasn't. Not even close.
    You mean like back when Leinster dropped him entirely earlier this season and he was left playing for Mary's? Like when they elected to start Nacewa ahead of him?

    He wasn't "always going to be the first choice outhalf,

    I meant he was always going to be first choice whether Contempomi got injured in the Munster semi or not. It was less evident back halfway through the season I admit when he was clearly having a tough time.
    Considering it's pretty widely known that Sexton and Cheika don't get on

    It is?
    Sexton hadn't even been playing provincial rugby at the time. Don't kid yourself into thinking he was even in the top three Irish starting outhalves.

    It would appear you and Kidney disagree seeing as Sexton was named in the Irish squad as the only fly half outside O'Gara (and potentially Wallace) until he got injured.
    thehighground wrote:
    What a fickle lot you are
    me wrote:
    I hope Sexton stays. Leinster played their most assured rugby with him at 10 last season.

    :P


  • #215
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    It is completey material, He is a second choice player that has had a massive break. He will be in the lime light of world rugby come the week end, more by default than by design.

    Sexton is not the youngest of players, it is about time he showed his worth byond the ML.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree. He's become first choice one game early due to Conter's injury, no more.

    He's young enough for a fly-half. He's already had one excellent half-season last year. He went through a rough patch this year. It happens to a lot of players, especially in such demanding a position, but he's coming out of it well.


  • #216
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    No he wasn't. Not even close.
    Contepomi was consistently awful this season, especially towards the end. Lacked any of the flair or skill that he brought to the team back in his "good aul days." Couldnt even hold onto the ball.

    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I meant he was always going to be first choice whether Contempomi got injured in the Munster semi or not. It was less evident back halfway through the season I admit when he was clearly having a tough time.
    Oh I see what you were saying now. I thought you meant that he was always going to be the replacement for Contepomi in the upcoming season :o

    Podge_irl wrote: »
    It is?
    Ive heard that as well. But It's also "well known" that they're both adults... Doubt it really makes a difference,they dont have to be best mates.


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    It would appear you and Kidney disagree seeing as Sexton was named in the Irish squad as the only fly half outside O'Gara (and potentially Wallace) until he got injured.

    Thats true. My mistake. I remember noticing that.
    I'm a big Sexton fan, and I know its a bit late saying it now, but during the season (wasnt posting here at the time) in the Nacewa at 10 days I was calling for Sexton to start, led to a few arguments with my mates. :D

    Im just saying, Sexton is a potentially good 10 in a run of great form. I think people are getting a little carried away with him.. hopefully he isnt.


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  • #217
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Contepomi was consistently awful this season, especially towards the end. Lacked any of the flair or skill that he brought to the team back in his "good aul days." Couldnt even hold onto the ball.

    Contempomi was merely poor, Nacewa was awful. Contempomi could manage a game a lot better than Nacewa and there was certainly more cohesion with him there (which sounds odd saying it). Sexton is better than both currently imo.
    Ive heard that as well. But It's also "well known" that they're both adults... Doubt it really makes a difference,they dont have to be best mates.

    I've heard it said about Keatley, though not about Sexton. I don't know how much faith to put in these "well-known" facts though.
    Im just saying, Sexton is a potentially good 10 in a run of great form. I think people are getting a little carried away with him.. hopefully he isnt.

    I tend to view it as Sexton being a good ten who had a run of bad form at the start of the year. I think people are far too quick to forget the impact he had last season.


  • #218
    Oaklyn Bald Thinker
    Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭ Oaklyn Bald Thinker


    thehighground wrote: »
    Goose, see you read the Tribune interview with Geordan (I presume that is how you found out that he played 10 for the Schools Cup 16 years ago ;)

    Humphreys has been dropped by Ulster and isn't getting a look in for the International team.

    Anyway, three short months ago you were agreeing with someone that Sexton was **** and good riddance to him to Perpingham where he was rumoured for him to be going.

    Here is the thread: (Post No. 10) :D:D:D

    What a fickle lot you are :D



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055504251&highlight=keatley

    Are you a bit slow?
    I said "I would say so lol",as in why would perpignon want him,he was unknown in other countries at that stage,I was rubbishing the rumour.

    You really have to stop being so desperate to bait someone.
    At least get it right.

    As for Murphy playing 10 in schools,no I knew it before but that was because I was interested in the specific match because of the players involved,so I have looked up info on it a while ago.

    I am completely against the Irish view of playing a 10 like O'gara.
    My choice is a playmaker instead,I dont like players kicking the ball unless its over the posts.
    Once you have good hands and can kick a ball if needed most 15,12,13 can play in this role.

    A lot of foreign coaches would have looked at this option seeing as we have a lack of 10's.


  • #219
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Contempomi was merely poor, Nacewa was awful. Contempomi could manage a game a lot better than Nacewa and there was certainly more cohesion with him there (which sounds odd saying it). Sexton is better than both currently imo.
    I disagree, but then most people disagree with me on that, and considering I've never played outhalf (or any position apart from 12 in the backs) at any real level so Im very probably wrong.
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I've heard it said about Keatley, though not about Sexton. I don't know how much faith to put in these "well-known" facts though.
    Hadn't heard it about Keatley. Guess I have now though.

    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I tend to view it as Sexton being a good ten who had a run of bad form at the start of the year. I think people are far too quick to forget the impact he had last season.
    He was good last year. Thats very true. I really like the guy, hopefully he'll be something special


  • #220
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    New game:

    Sexton or Cipriani?


  • #221
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    New game:

    Sexton or Cipriani?

    Heh odd question.

    Sexton for Leinster, definitely - he's great at allowing a backline to flow. Cipriani for any team lacking strike runners. He's got flair. He can create something from nothing.

    Can see him tormenting teams from behind England's pack for years to come.


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  • #222
    LeeroyJones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭LeeroyJones


    Cipriani is talented, but nowhere near the level Sky and the rest of the British media would have you believe. He's by no means running the show in what is a mediocre league, for me he's on the Saxons on merit and Vesty is playing better rugby.

    Sexton is also talented, but in comparison to Cipriani is not been over-hyped and he is playing very good rugby.

    If you were to base your opinion on that of the media "experts" in the UK then Cipriani is streets ahead of Sexton, but IMO if you were to watch the two of them I reckon Sexton currently has the edge. Cipriani has more flair but Sextons distribution and kicking game is not matched by the Wasps fly-half


  • #223
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Lucca Important Owl wrote: »
    Are you a bit slow?

    Oh great, so you weren't part of the 'get Keatley back because Sexton is rubbish brigade here?

    Unlike you to state that it was a big mistake that Sexton was leaving Leinster and going to USAP ;)

    1=Healy
    2=Jackman
    3=Ross
    4=Toner
    5=Mal
    6=O brien
    7=Jennings
    8=Heaslip
    9-Reddan
    10=Keatley
    11=Necwa/Horhan/Keogh
    12=Darcy
    13=Dirco
    14=Fitz
    15-Kearney


  • #224
    premierstone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    LeeroyJones wrote: »
    Sexton is also talented, but in comparison to Cipriani is not been over-hyped and he is playing very good rugby.

    If you were to base your opinion on that of the media "experts" in the UK then Cipriani is streets ahead of Sexton, but IMO if you were to watch the two of them I reckon Sexton currently has the edge. Cipriani has more flair but Sextons distribution and kicking game is not matched by the Wasps fly-half

    This is so OTT after one excellent game Sexton is as good as or better than Cipriani? And you accuse the british media of over hyping someone?

    Anyway back on topic, my one real concern in relation to Sexton on saturday is that in the Munster game he cant have been expecting to play such a large portion of the game whereas this last three weeks he will know that he is about to play the pivitol role in teh most important game in he's clubs/provinces( just for the petantic few around) history and it has to be a possibility that the ocassion nerves may effect him, having said that he does seem a very confident (cocky some might say) player and he also has alot of experienced guys around him to keep him earthed.


  • #225
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    premierstone wrote: »
    This is so OTT after one excellent game

    This isn't Sexton's first season and that wasn't his first excellent game.

    Mind you, I think Cipriani is a better player, but Sexton is playing better at the moment.


  • #226
    Stev_o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    This isn't Sexton's first season and that wasn't his first excellent game.

    Mind you, I think Cipriani is a better player, but Sexton is playing better at the moment.

    But Sexton's never played for Leinster week in week out at 10 compared to Cipriani and the fact that we haven't seen him at the highest level of any competition means we have no idea what his mentality is like when it really counts.


  • #227
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Stev_o wrote: »
    But Sexton's never played for Leinster week in week out at 10 compared to Cipriani and the fact that we haven't seen him at the highest level of any competition means we have no idea what his mentality is like when it really counts.

    He did last season. He played more games than Contempomi. I do think any comparison to Cipriani is a bit silly though.


  • #228
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I do think any comparison to Cipriani is a bit silly though.

    I asked the question to show how people are jumping on Sexton and proclaiming him the great white hope of the future of the Irish 10 jersey!

    Cipriani is a far better prospect. Although I would agree that if Cipriani produced two performances like Sexton did against Munster and Llanelli then the English would be going crazy about him.


  • #229
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I asked the question to show how people are jumping on Sexton and proclaiming him the great white hope of the future of the Irish 10 jersey!

    Cipriani is a far better prospect. Although I would agree that if Cipriani produced two performances like Sexton did against Munster and Llanelli then the English would be going crazy about him.



    What about his performance against Ireland? At least that was on the top level.


  • #230
    Phrio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Phrio


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Nacewa's a great running out-half, but the game here's not open enough or runny enough to suit that.

    I think he could still do a job for us at out-half, but he wasn't great there when he played tehre this season.

    Also, Sexton had a tough time this season with form, and didn't seem to get the support he needed from the coaching staff, etc, at least from the outside.

    What I heard earlier in the season is that word came down from a high in Irish rugby that nacewa wasnt brought in to start playing out half and that he shouldnt be playing there that it was contepomi and sexton with sexton for first choice next season


  • #231
    Phrio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Phrio


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I asked the question to show how people are jumping on Sexton and proclaiming him the great white hope of the future of the Irish 10 jersey!

    Cipriani is a far better prospect. Although I would agree that if Cipriani produced two performances like Sexton did against Munster and Llanelli then the English would be going crazy about him.

    Is a bit of a jump from how well he managed a couple of recent games to get O'Gara the 50% chance of being lions test out half to the bench!!

    By the end of Saturday it could be any one of 3 very talented young Irish out halves laying claim to the back up no. 10 slot.

    Keatley has been playing some good stuff for CB and Niall O'Connor looks a real player and a wise head on young shoulders when it comes to management of the game...

    Although obviously I hope it is Sexton who stakes the biggest claim with leading that Leinster backline to tries and a HC winners medal.

    Will be great to see 3 young Irish outhalfs starting next season as no1 for their province and O'Gara still running the show in that no.10 slot for munster :D


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  • #232
    curts82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭curts82


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    So speaks an expert.

    Fair point Joe:)
    But I see The way Leinster people rate him!!
    Munster people rate Dowling!!! No ones happy!!


  • #233
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I asked the question to show how people are jumping on Sexton and proclaiming him the great white hope of the future of the Irish 10 jersey!

    Cipriani is a far better prospect. Although I would agree that if Cipriani produced two performances like Sexton did against Munster and Llanelli then the English would be going crazy about him.
    I'd agree with that. Sexton can be hit or miss. ROG was like this at the beginning of his career to. Sometimes putting in howlers for even Cork Con.

    ROG rarely has a game where he's below 7 / 10 now.

    Sexton is good but he's still developing. Number 10 is all about split second timing, precision and decision making. Sexton imo wouldn't have the same degree of athleticism as Cipriani.

    But fingers crossed, he'll keep developing and someday he'll be as good as ROG has been. No easy task.


  • #234
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    This thread is proof that Irish rugby fans live to hype their players.

    Sexton is a fine player, but he's not an extraordinary talent, like Giteau or Carter for example. Cipriani has the potential to occupy the same strata as Giteau or Carter, imo, he's a great kicker, great passer, fast enough to play wing and can break like a 12. The big questions I'd have for him are temperament and defending. He can struggle to control games, and can be very weak defensively.


  • #235
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    This thread is proof that Irish rugby fans live to hype their players.
    I'd agree with you there. Everyone was raving about Hurley last year because he kicked a grubber in a certain match.

    I think Kearney could be a bit over hyped. I watched a few of the VI nations again (bought the DVDs) and I don't think his tackling is up to much.

    I think ISA is a better tackler and a better pick for the final.


  • #236
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    This thread is proof that Irish rugby fans live to hype their players.

    Sexton is a fine player, but he's not an extraordinary talent, like Giteau or Carter for example. Cipriani has the potential to occupy the same strata as Giteau or Carter, imo, he's a great kicker, great passer, fast enough to play wing and can break like a 12. The big questions I'd have for him are temperament and defending. He can struggle to control games, and can be very weak defensively.

    Who has suggested he's Carter or Giteau? We need to sort out the OH situation in Ireland, that's what this is about.


  • #237
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    This thread is proof that Irish rugby fans live to hype their players.

    Sexton is a fine player, but he's not an extraordinary talent, like Giteau or Carter for example. Cipriani has the potential to occupy the same strata as Giteau or Carter, imo, he's a great kicker, great passer, fast enough to play wing and can break like a 12. The big questions I'd have for him are temperament and defending. He can struggle to control games, and can be very weak defensively.

    Partially true. Maybe though that can be put down to the fact that we're experiencing such a great period in terms of producing players and results...

    I personally think Sexton is as good with the ball in hand as Cipriani, but he lacks the natural ability to contol the game with his boot (as we seem to always demand from an outhalf) to become a "great."

    If Sexton was able to somehow sneak into David Humphrey's home while he was sleeping and swap feet with him (he's not using them anymore), then we'd be flying. Maybe Dr. Felipe could perform the surgery as his last service to Leinster...


  • #238
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If Sexton was able to somehow sneak into David Humphrey's home while he was sleeping and swap feet with him (he's not using them anymore), then we'd be flying. Maybe Dr. Felipe could perform the surgery as his last service to Leinster...

    This is what I don't understand about Sexton though ... it was reported in the Irish Times that ROG and Tomas O'Leary were up in Croke Park (on their day off from the Irish squad), practicising place kicking. Why wasn't Sexton there as well?

    Does Sexton (or any of them) have the dedication and discipline to really put the hours in?


  • #239
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    thehighground wrote: »
    Does Sexton (or any of them) have the dedication and discipline to really put the hours in?

    Ive seen Sexton practising quite a bit. In fact he was awful when I first saw him... I remember walking home thinking to myself that he must surely be the worst kicking outhalf I'd ever seen (we're talking missing from close, in front of the posts). Obviously he's come on from then, the improvement that he's made is evident on his recent performances, and hopefully will be evident on Saturday


  • #240
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    thehighground wrote: »
    This is what I don't understand about Sexton though ... it was reported in the Irish Times that ROG and Tomas O'Leary were up in Croke Park (on their day off from the Irish squad), practicising place kicking. Why wasn't Sexton there as well?

    Does Sexton (or any of them) have the dedication and discipline to really put the hours in?

    Sexton was injured during the 6N and wasn't in any matchday squad anyway, whereas both TOL and ROG were. You've brought this up before, but I think you're reading far too much into it.
    I personally think Sexton is as good with the ball in hand as Cipriani, but he lacks the natural ability to contol the game with his boot (as we seem to always demand from an outhalf) to become a "great."

    Sexton has a pretty decent tactical kicking game. Not as good as ROG's but it will improve in time. I dunno how you can say he is as good with ball in hand as Cipriani though. He has a nicer pass, but he can't run the ball like Cipriani.


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  • #241
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Sexton was injured during the 6N and wasn't in any matchday squad anyway, whereas both TOL and ROG were. You've brought this up before, but I think you're reading far too much into it.

    Sexton played in an 'A' game this year. Was it not the 2007 6Ns he was injured for? I seem to remember quite a few posters (Humphreys and/or Keatley fans) annoyed that he still seemed to be in Declan Kidney's plans despite not getting too much time with Leinster. TOL & O'Gara were with the Irish kicking coach - and that is why it struck me that of all the people who needed to practice their kicking and needed some coaching, it was Sexton.

    When you read about the effort O'Gara puts into his kicking (for instance, he now changed his own personal kicking coach to the one Jonny Wilkinson has/had) and flies over to the UK on a Sunday (I presume its not every sunday) for a couple of hours coaching, you realise how much effort the top professionals have to put into their game to stay at the top of their game.


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