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The 5/3/1 Discussion Thread

08-07-2009 11:26PM

#1

Hanley

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Lets play nice!

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#2 08-07-2009 11:30PM

LightningBolt

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Forgive me but, what exactly is it? Is it like a 5x5 program? Would it be an int-adv program or adaptable for any kind of lifter?

How exactly does protein work with it?

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#3 08-07-2009 11:33PM

Hanley

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Read this; http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

No protein allowed tho. It's the devil.

I'm just saying that cos i don't actually understand your question!

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#4 08-07-2009 11:35PM

itsallaboutheL

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Hanley wrote: »

Read this; http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

No protein allowed tho. It's the devil.

I'm just saying that cos i don't actually understand your question!

a small child full of protein!!

whats up with his sudden love of whole foods..... i bet Biotest aren't happy!!

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#5 08-07-2009 11:40PM

brianthebard

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Probably intentionally said that because of the site in question.

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#6 08-07-2009 11:48PM

the drifter

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ok to go from lightning bolts post...i take it this is for an advanced lifter and not someone starting out or returning to lifting?

so youve got your 4 week block then you increase and move on...how long do you cycle this for?

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#7 08-07-2009 11:50PM

itsallaboutheL

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the drifter wrote: »

ok to go from lightning bolts post...i take it this is for an advanced lifter and not someone starting out or returning to lifting?

so youve got your 4 week block then you increase and move on...how long do you cycle this for?

no gheys "bodybuilders" allowed

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#8 08-07-2009 11:54PM

the drifter

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fair nuff L im neither... think you need to be able to squat for this program so run along and play with someone over in PI

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#9 08-07-2009 11:54PM

Hanley

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the drifter wrote: »

ok to go from lightning bolts post...i take it this is for an advanced lifter and not someone starting out or returning to lifting?

so youve got your 4 week block then you increase and move on...how long do you cycle this for?

Wendler's always banging on about how it's for everyone!!

Constant progress is good, regardless of what level you're at!!

3 weeks on, 1 week deload (week = 7-10 days)

Add 5kg to your squat and deadlift, 2.5kg to bench and military

Repeat ad infinitum!

Kev's done 5 cycles. I'm on my 3rd...

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#10 09-07-2009 12:00AM

brianthebard

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the drifter wrote: »

ok to go from lightning bolts post...i take it this is for an advanced lifter and not someone starting out or returning to lifting?

so youve got your 4 week block then you increase and move on...how long do you cycle this for?

Well I'm a noob and I feel its working for me. When you take 10% off your 1rm then as a noob you're taking less off than an advanced lifter, so you see yourself pushing past your 1rm sooner. I don't think it matters what level of lifting you're at, and there are different assistance templates to suit different needs, but its highly customisable. (one of the templates is very suited to size gains).

As for how long you do it, it could be forever. I know I'm not doing it as long as others here but the way one can look at gradual changes and how your training will look months in advance really lends itself to the long term training. If in six months time I get bored of it and want to try a Russian cycle or something else then that's possible, and then you can go right back into 5/3/1 as a template for another 6 months or however long it takes.

Tbh I think at its heart its just a 4 day upper/lower upper/lower split, but with the percentages and the constantly changing rep scheme it appears to be more than that. But it seems to work really well.

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#11 09-07-2009 12:10AM

podge57

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Im just finishing up wave 3 - loving it so far, except for military pressing but i dont care too much about it anyway.

This wave i squatted 150x6, back in wave 1 i got 140x6, and ive been setting consistant bench and dl prs too.

I play football too, and i think this works weel for anyone involved in sport - the only thing that really matters is the one all-out set, and you can adjust the volume for everything else to suit your needs. Somedays i spend 25 mins in the gym, other days i take 75 mins

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#12 09-07-2009 12:11AM

Hanley

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brianthebard wrote: »

Tbh I think at its heart its just a 4 day upper/lower upper/lower split, but with the percentages and the constantly changing rep scheme it appears to be more than that. But it seems to work really well.

It's not revolutionary for sure. But that's the beauty of it.

The idea's tried and tested... gradually increase the big lift over time, do exercises that hit the same muscles. It's what powerlifters were doing before Westside came along and stole the show. Hell I know a lot of very successful powerlifters who still do the same basic thing.

5/3/1 sells the most basic way of training known to man as a package that produces results. It's great really!

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#13 09-07-2009 12:13AM

brianthebard

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This is the thing I've been wondering, could you just dump the military press day completely if you did some shoulder assistance work on some of the other days? I don't intend to get rid of it, but I'm curious. What I mean is what would be the negative implications of doing that?

ETA-totally agree Hanley, I was just trying to say that a lot of people would get distracted by the percentage stuff, which is important but really its a simple programme that you can follow for years.

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#14 09-07-2009 12:51AM

Naos

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If you want to see the results of 5/3/1, you have to do the program as written. As soon as you start customizing it, it's no longer 5/3/1. You might like your own version of it better than Wendler's original, but you can't attribute your success or failure to the guy who wrote the program unless you're actually doing the program as he wrote it.

This program does sound interesting. I'm doing some different type thing at the moment in the gym, really have to write it up in my journal at some stage.

Going to take a look at this in a few weeks possibly.

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#15 09-07-2009 09:33AM

kevpants

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brianthebard wrote: »

This is the thing I've been wondering, could you just dump the military press day completely if you did some shoulder assistance work on some of the other days? I don't intend to get rid of it, but I'm curious. What I mean is what would be the negative implications of doing that?

It would throw things out of kilter if you removed it. The thing about it, even if you don't progress that much on it is that it gives you an extra 3 days of lower body recovery (if you're training 3 days a week). If it's removed you are gonna end up going straight from squats to deadlifts and I suppose it's just the structure Wendler found optimal.

It gives you a chance to do some extra upper body assistance as well without having to bench twice a week.

When you think about it overhead strength is conspicuous by its absence from powerlifting. Realistically if you want to get overall strong you'd be mad to neglect it. It's not a "powerlifting program", I mean it's designed with unequipped lifting only in mind and Wendler expressed his dissatisfaction with only being able to squat, bench & deadlift but not being able to do anything else.

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#16 09-07-2009 10:52AM

BossArky

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brianthebard wrote: »

.. a lot of people would get distracted by the percentage stuff

I start frothing from the mouth having to use a pen, paper and calculator for the first time in a while. So, I made this to auto create my plan for 6 months based on a initial starting 1 RMs and proposed weight increases between 4 week cycles for upper and lower.

It takes the mental DOMS out of the program anyway...

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#17 09-07-2009 11:33AM

Baldie

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BossArky wrote: »

I start frothing from the mouth having to use a pen, paper and calculator for the first time in a while. So, I made this to auto create my plan for 6 months based on a initial starting 1 RMs and proposed weight increases between 4 week cycles for upper and lower.

It takes the mental DOMS out of the program anyway...

Cheers, I was just working on something similar myself.

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#18 09-07-2009 11:43AM

Vegeta

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Nice work BA, that's handy

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#19 09-07-2009 11:45AM

itsallaboutheL

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http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

havn't read it yet, but it looks relevant!!

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#20 09-07-2009 12:42PM

Vegeta

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So as a relative newb to strength training and someone who is naturally weak as piss, would the more experienced guys recommend this over other programmes they've done?

Or is it a case of, what I did at the time worked well and this is also working well?

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#21 09-07-2009 01:25PM

Dragan

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Now this looks simple and effective.

Will give it a bash.

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#22 09-07-2009 01:54PM

Baldie

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Might give this a go myself...

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#23 09-07-2009 02:50PM

d'Oracle

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Does this routine only practice one lift for 4 weeks at a time?

Bit confused here.

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#24 09-07-2009 05:09PM

Naos

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d'Oracle wrote: »

Does this routine only practice one lift for 4 weeks at a time?

Bit confused here.

It reads to me like this and I'm open to correction:

Mon - Squats
Wed - Benchpress
Fri - Deadlift
Sun - Military Press

That would be week one, so do each exercise once per week. Week two start off at the squat's again and work your way through.

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#25 09-07-2009 05:40PM

kevpants

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Naos wrote: »

It reads to me like this and I'm open to correction:

Mon - Squats
Wed - Benchpress
Fri - Deadlift
Sun - Military Press

That would be week one, so do each exercise once per week. Week two start off at the squat's again and work your way through.

That's it. Or you can do the 3 day a week split where you do Mon/Wed/Fri and the exercise for each day moves on one each week.

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#26 09-07-2009 05:45PM

kevpants

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Just to hammer home the most important thing here.

START LIGHT!

Real light. Don't estimate your 1rm off what you "reckon" you can do or what you "could do" or what you "could do after a few weeks no problem". Take your actual max and round it down, then use 90% of it as you training max. You're gonna struggle to hit the prescribed reps after 2 or 3 cycles otherwise.

You really really really don't need to use weights near your max to get stronger.

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#27 09-07-2009 05:46PM

itsallaboutheL

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kevpants wrote: »

START LIGHT!

Tear

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#28 09-07-2009 05:50PM

kevpants

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itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Tear

I was waiting for you to pull me up there.

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#29 09-07-2009 05:52PM

itsallaboutheL

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kevpants wrote: »

I was waiting for you to pull me up there.

i know starting light makes sense....

it's just hard:(

my poor little ego!!

Actually people... i can't deadlift for 5/3/1 in the gym im in at the mo... any ideas??

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#30 09-07-2009 05:59PM

celestial

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This looks like a programme with potential and I'm gonna give it a bash. My numbers are shocking at min (simply because I haven't been lifting in any structured fashion until lately) and they need to go up.

Might not have had the patience to figure it all out without BossArky's Excel file though! - cheers BA

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#31 09-07-2009 06:24PM

Hanley

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itsallaboutheL wrote: »

i know starting light makes sense....

it's just hard:(

my poor little ego!!

Actually people... i can't deadlift for 5/3/1 in the gym im in at the mo... any ideas??

Don't do it??

I didnt' start this thread with the intention of bandwagoning... there's a few people here who are using it, and there's a fair bit of discussion in the logs so I thought it would be nice to have a centralised information resource.

And for the people thinking of just trying ti out... In my experience it's not the sorta thing you just do for a month or two and get stronger on. It seems more long term. So do yourself a favour and if you're not actually going to stick with it, don't waster your own time!

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