Part of Dublin to Belfast rail line collapses

Yoda · 21-08-2009 06:33PM #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html

Friday, 21 August 2009 19:27

A section of the main Dublin to Belfast railway line has collapsed in Malahide in north Dublin. It happened this evening north of Malahide station on the causeway to the estuary in Donabate. Iarnród Éireann says initial indications are that subsidence caused an embankment to collapse and that the damage appears to be quite bad. The damaged line was noticed by the driver of the 6.07pm train travelling from Balbriggan to Pearse station. The train had passengers on board but managed to stop. The line has been closed and there are currently no northern commuter and Belfast enterprise trains running as a result.

That's going to cost a bomb to fix. Oops... Fianna Fáil spent all the money…

mikemac · 21-08-2009 06:42PM

That's a serious problem, could take a good while to fix.

Well nobody was hurt is the main thing I suppose

I would have thought a survey every few months could predict these issues?

I'm no engineer, just thinking out loud here

amacachi · 21-08-2009 06:44PM

I dunno, always thought it was an odd place to put a railway.
This could cause quite some disruption.

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 06:49PM

Already a few posts in and Irish Rail aren't being dragged like lambs to the slaughter, must be slow evening on boards.

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 06:54PM

mikemac wrote: »

I would have thought a survey every few months could predict these issues?
I'm no engineer, just thinking out loud here

Lets all jump to conclusions before we know the facts. There is fast flowing water on the viaduct twice daily, July was one of the wettest months on record, a river flows into the estuary - theres at least one situation where a survey a few months ago would not have shown anything.

Judgement Day · 21-08-2009 06:54PM

amacachi wrote: »

I dunno, always thought it was an odd place to put a railway.
This could cause quite some disruption.

It's called the shortest distance between two places - a straight line!

Lister1 · 21-08-2009 06:56PM

Any pictures? I heard on the grapevine that the damage was quite bad...

amacachi · 21-08-2009 07:04PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's called the shortest distance between two places - a straight line!

I get that, though not much of the rest of the line seems to follow that logic. :P Just meant that anytime I've been on the line I've wondered how the main line north runs over something that feels so shoddy.

novarock · 21-08-2009 07:17PM

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html

lostexpectation · 21-08-2009 07:28PM

pics now jesus christ lucky no train went over that
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html

amacachi · 21-08-2009 07:31PM

lostexpectation wrote: »

pics now jesus christ lucky no train went over that
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/rail.html

Saw them, it's feckin lucky no trains reached it. Wonder how long this is going to affect services.

Sierra Oscar · 21-08-2009 07:32PM

With damage as extensive as that, I am guessing commuters may face disruption for some time . . .

L1011 · 21-08-2009 07:33PM

Depending on whether the other sections are solid they could have a bailey bridge in relatively shortly - if the other sections aren't solid it could be out a lot longer!

Judgement Day · 21-08-2009 07:35PM

Will inter-city passengers be affected too or will it just be 'commuters'.?

Lister1 · 21-08-2009 07:40PM

Lucky there wasn't a major crash. Makes you wonder about the safety of the rest of the lines...

stop · 21-08-2009 07:45PM

could've been another Bray 1867...cept, I'm guessing more bodies. Very close call this was.

Bray_Head_railway_accident%2C_1867.jpg

Lister1 · 21-08-2009 07:49PM

Yep, I traveled over the line on the 5:10 from Connolly to Balbriggan(through Malahide around 5:25). Everything was smooth. Didn't notice any bumps at all...

murphaph · 21-08-2009 07:58PM

Christ that's bad.

Luckily FF spent the money wisely and passengers can transfer to metro North at Donabate, oh wait.....

The whole viaduct must be under suspicion now. It'll be a LONG time before that reopens, if at all.

hoser expat · 21-08-2009 08:01PM

I was on the 6:15 out of Pearse, that got stopped at Howth junction. Had to take a taxi home to Skerries.

Irish Rail are absolutely bloody lucky that no train went over this, because looking at the photos it would have been an immediate derailmant into the estuary. Looks like a complete failure of inspection and maintenance to my moderately trained eye. This should never have happened in the first place....failures like that don't happen without warning.

Unfortunately, I have no confidence in them fixing this in a timely manner (the damage is quite severe), or putting on a good service for the thousands of commuters that use the line daily. An express bus from each of the affected stations to central town is required at a minimum. A bus that accepts rail passes. If I have to take the 2 hour journey by the 33 bus for months I will kill someone.

We'll just have to see what alternate plans they arrange......stay tuned.

Nostradamus · 21-08-2009 08:08PM

Scary. Could of easily been a bloodbath if a train went into the water at speed.

c4cat · 21-08-2009 08:08PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Will inter-city passengers be affected too or will it just be 'commuters'.?

Well how do you think the intercity train would negotiate getting over that bit track?

Judgement Day · 21-08-2009 08:09PM

murphaph wrote: »

Christ that's bad.

Luckily FF spent the money wisely and passengers can transfer to metro North at Donabate, oh wait.....

The whole viaduct must be under suspicion now. It'll be a LONG time before that reopens, if at all.

Yes, I am inclined to agree with you about the whole viaduct being under suspicion - it could be a major problem. Thank God it was in daylight! I don't think we should rush to judgement though and start asking questions about CIE/IE's inspection routine as another poster is saying. It will all come out when the railway safety people report.

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 08:10PM

Just to add there has been a 'spring tide' the last few days. Extremely high tides, as high as I've seen in the recent years.

I wonder did it add to the issue.

Nostradamus · 21-08-2009 08:10PM

Lister1 wrote: »

Lucky there wasn't a major crash. Makes you wonder about the safety of the rest of the lines...

Now you know why Irish rail speeds are slower now than in the distant past. They are hardly very confident about them either it would seem...

kildarecommuter · 21-08-2009 08:13PM

Will also have serious effect on TARA mines ore trains hope it does not mean a loss to Road freight permanently

Judgement Day · 21-08-2009 08:15PM

c4cat wrote: »

Well how do you think the intercity train would negotiate getting over that bit track?

I was just having a gentle dig at the poster Sierra Oscar who used the term commuter when he was, presumably, referring to all Dublin/Belfast rail users. RTE specialise in the use of lazy words like that and it makes my teeth grate - OK?

hoser expat · 21-08-2009 08:19PM

Bluetonic wrote: »

Just to add there has been a 'spring tide' the last few days. Extremely high tides, as high as I've seen in the recent years.

I wonder did it add to the issue.

I agree, but tide variation should still be within engineering margins. I think that somewhere an inspection should have picked this up.

murphaph · 21-08-2009 08:21PM

kildarecommuter wrote: »

Will also have serious effect on TARA mines ore trains hope it does not mean a loss to Road freight permanently

This will pose a major problem for the mine I would imagine. The ore trains are very heavy-how are the loads transfered in Dublin Port (to presumably bulk carrier?)? It may not be easy to even use trucks instead.

Irish Rail have a lot of questions to answer. Looking forward to hearning Kenny waffle his way out of this one. I'm sure FF are wishing they had reopened Navan now. It could have been quite useful. But I thought the east got all the fancy new infrastructure and the wesht was being starved.....;)

L1011 · 21-08-2009 08:22PM

Is there any sidings for Drogheda Port? Tara traffic could have to go out there temporarily IF there is one.

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 08:23PM

hoser expat wrote: »

I agree, but tide variation should still be within engineering margins. I think that somewhere an inspection should have picked this up.

Just for reference here are the tide highs. Spring tides are the peaks, the highest of the year comes tomorrow.

Even though it's Dublin bay you get the idea.

Corb · 21-08-2009 08:26PM

This could have been a disaster. Thank God the driver was concentrating!

Hungerford · 21-08-2009 08:38PM

murphaph wrote: »

I'm sure FF are wishing they had reopened Navan now. It could have been quite useful. But I thought the east got all the fancy new infrastructure and the wesht was being starved.....;)

I bet that there's a lot of commuters wishing the same thing and also wishing FF had reopened Navan - Drogheda for passengers too.

21-08-2009 08:41PM

This will also have an effect on commuter railcar maintenance, how will they get back to Drogheda? Might need to go to Inchicore or Portlaoise instead.

dan_d · 21-08-2009 08:42PM

Some engineer is cowering right about now, thinking about that. I'm an engineer....I would have thought (hoped) that IR would have surveyed that on a fairly regular basis. Don't know the details at all, but it's one of those places that someone shold have been keeping a very tight eye on.
As a bit of trivia, apparently the estuary is nearly empty of water, because the entrance to it is blocked!!So I hear!

Hungerford · 21-08-2009 08:45PM

murphaph wrote: »

The whole viaduct must be under suspicion now. It'll be a LONG time before that reopens, if at all.

Well, they'll have to do something - the only alternative is to close the entire Dublin - Belfast route! It could be a very long time though - it took them 11 months to fix the Cahir Viaduct after the 2003 derailment.

Admittedly, the Dublin - Belfast line is likely to be a slightly higher priority for CIE than Waterford - Limerick.

Another interesting bit of context is that the reports into the previous two major railway incidents before today - Cahir and the Skerries derailment found that maintenance practices in IE were at least partly to blame.

Praetorian · 21-08-2009 08:47PM

As a frequent user of that line to Balbriggan (friends and family use it too) all I can say is thank god the enterprise didnnt hit it at 90mph. It could have been a total disaster. Heads have to roll here.

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 08:47PM

dan_d wrote: »

As a bit of trivia, apparently the estuary is nearly empty of water, because the entrance to it is blocked!!So I hear!

Thats rubbish.

L1011 · 21-08-2009 08:49PM

I know its an entirely different type of infrastructure, but can anyone remember how long it took the NRA to get a temporary bridge in Leenane when the N59 washed away a few years ago? Was a week at the very least and then much longer for a proper bridge.

sdanseo · 21-08-2009 08:51PM

Bluetonic wrote: »

Thats rubbish.

Agreed. I live beside that estuary and let me assure you there is plenty of water in it at the point of collapse.

The length of the actual bridge is quite short compared to the length of the embankment itself - from a distance it's hard to tell which is which. It could be that the rigid structure of the bridge gave in - there would be less immediate danger to the embankment as it can flex much more, obviously.

Either way, this was a very, very narrow escape for the train that spotted it. Did said train just reverse back to Donabate, yes? Could have been a bloodbath indeed.

This will cause very cosiderable delay alright. I have an uncle who's a civil engineer who tells me temporary embankments can be done in 48 hours - but I don't think Ireland is that far along (he's in Australia).

RuggieBear · 21-08-2009 08:55PM

bollix.

i get the enterprise each way at least once weekly

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 08:55PM

MYOB wrote: »

I know its an entirely different type of infrastructure, but can anyone remember how long it took the NRA to get a temporary bridge in Leenane when the N59 washed away a few years ago? Was a week at the very least and then much longer for a proper bridge.

July 18th 2007 it was washed away, July 27th 2007 the temp bridge opened.

Even though it was tidal the flow of water was far far far less that the flow at Malahide. A temp structure here would need to be very strong also I don't see how it would work as there is only one route and the existing tracks can not be realigned to temp bridge while a new one is constructed.

Davy · 21-08-2009 09:06PM

Plenty of water :rolleyes:

sorry quality not great, just had the phone and its quite a distance

lostexpectation · 21-08-2009 09:10PM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/catb/3843727118/

Hungerford · 21-08-2009 09:10PM

Karsini wrote: »

This will also have an effect on commuter railcar maintenance, how will they get back to Drogheda? Might need to go to Inchicore or Portlaoise instead.

It's going to be interesting to see how they maintain Enterprise services too - the locomotives used are now cut-off from Inchicore. In fact, there's probably one of the three Enterprise sets is also on the Dublin side of the break too.

I was about to say it was a good thing that they had all those Mark IIIs in Dundalk, then I remembered that IE sent them up there to rot and have made sure of it!

rushbrook · 21-08-2009 09:13PM

sdonn wrote: »

Agreed. I live beside that estuary and let me assure you there is plenty of water in it at the point of collapse.

The length of the actual bridge is quite short compared to the length of the embankment itself - from a distance it's hard to tell which is which. It could be that the rigid structure of the bridge gave in - there would be less immediate danger to the embankment as it can flex much more, obviously.

Either way, this was a very, very narrow escape for the train that spotted it. Did said train just reverse back to Donabate, yes? Could have been a bloodbath indeed.

This will cause very cosiderable delay alright. I have an uncle who's a civil engineer who tells me temporary embankments can be done in 48 hours - but I don't think Ireland is that far along (he's in Australia).

worrying from cie -- several weeks according to their website

>>>>>>>>
21st August: Major disruption to Northern Commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services by Corporate Communications

UPDATE 21.15HRS, Friday 21st August

There is significant disruption to Northern commuter, and Belfast Enterprise services due to a serious incident in which a 20 metre section of the viaduct has given way across Broadmeadow estuary, north of Malahide this evening. The incident occurred shortly before 18.30hrs this evening.

An investigation into this extremely serious incident is underway.

Services:

Northern commuter services are seriously disrupted. A shuttle rail service is currently operating between Drogheda and Skerries only. Customers travelling between Dublin city and all stations north of Malahide are advised to travel by Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann services.

Belfast Enterprise services will operate with train services between Belfast and Drogheda, and with bus transfers between Drogheda and Connolly, with resulting delays.

These arrangements will continue tomorrow, and weekday service details for next week are being arranged.

DART services between Malahide and Howth Junction have resumed, and are operating normally.

Due to the severe damage to the viaduct, we regret to inform customers that the line across the estuary will not reopen for, at the very least, several weeks, with resulting disruption continuing.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bonkers_xOx · 21-08-2009 09:14PM

hoser expat wrote: »

I was on the 6:15 out of Pearse, that got stopped at Howth junction. Had to take a taxi home to Skerries.

Irish Rail are absolutely bloody lucky that no train went over this, because looking at the photos it would have been an immediate derailmant into the estuary. Looks like a complete failure of inspection and maintenance to my moderately trained eye. This should never have happened in the first place....failures like that don't happen without warning.

Unfortunately, I have no confidence in them fixing this in a timely manner (the damage is quite severe), or putting on a good service for the thousands of commuters that use the line daily. An express bus from each of the affected stations to central town is required at a minimum. A bus that accepts rail passes. If I have to take the 2 hour journey by the 33 bus for months I will kill someone.

We'll just have to see what alternate plans they arrange......stay tuned.

Yeah me too, I'm thanking my lucky stars that our train was just that bit behind. Only home now, Buses didn't come for ages.

Trafford Lad · 21-08-2009 09:19PM

I was on the 6:15 train from Pearse to Drog, we stopped at Howth Junction, got the Dart back in to Connolly and Bus Eireann home. I agree with the poster who wonders what would have happened had the Enterprise crossed at speed. Very very scary thought. Who knows when it will be fixed.

lostexpectation · 21-08-2009 09:26PM

whats it top speed over the viaduct

21-08-2009 09:30PM

lostexpectation wrote: »

whats it top speed over the viaduct

I think it's 70mph on the southern side of the viaduct and 90 on the northern side. So it's pretty safe to assume that trains would be going 70 over it at most. Still, such an accident at 70mph would have been disastrous.

Bluetonic · 21-08-2009 09:37PM

The port tunnel will get some good use over the next few weeks, thats for sure.

Of course the tolls will be reduced to help ease traffic congestion I'm sure

Rashers72 · 21-08-2009 09:40PM

I was on a DART that got into Malahide at 18.05. The Belfast-Dublin service due into Connolly at 18.20 passed by going slowly enough at 18.00 just south of Malahide. I think Irish Rail were extremely lucky here.
They did a major job re-enforcing the embankments on the Broadmeadows Estuary in the last few years, but I do not think they did anything with the actual bridge part that collapsed.

On a similar note, I really hope the contingency plans are better then anything in the past.
They have a whole weekend before the bulk of commuters return to work on Monday, so time to get the finger out, and get all the resources required to either get the bridge sorted, or get plenty of buses available. Of course it is not that simple, but they really need to provide better options, then just get Dublin Bus services. This is not the city centre. There are huge gaps in the bus services in Fingal, so they will simply not be able to cope.

Part of Dublin to Belfast rail line collapses

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