ANTI NAMA protest Saturday Sept 19th

synd · 18-09-2009 06:16PM #1

Saturday Sept 19th (tomorrow) Assemble 1pm, Garden of Remembrance, Parnell Square, Dublin.

Large numbers are expected - unlike the previous protest called by the mysterious facebook organization aka the (Irish peoples Union).

The current Gov after causing a speculative crisis are now ushering in a wave of cutbacks designed to make the general population pay the cost. The people of this nation should ‘’not’’ be obliged to take on the toxic debt run up by speculators and their corrupt friends in FF. The public are naturally led to think that little alternative to the current situation exists - ergo cuts of all descriptions are justified by default. However alternatives (are) indeed possible, one rather obvious one being to declare indebted developers bankrupt thereby liquidating their debt and proceeding to socialize the remaining assets for public use.

Its time for action

Count Dooku · 19-09-2009 08:14AM

synd wrote: »

Large numbers are expected - unlike the previous protest called by the mysterious facebook organization aka the (Irish peoples Union).

IPU did a great job. Without single poster they managed to fill o’connel street.

Even Labour with their "strong supporters base" couldn’t do anything similar

Be prepared for total media ignorance
Last time protest has been announced and then totally ignored
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/?breakingNewsDay=next&currDay=11.09.09
Today's protest is even not been announced

handsfree · 19-09-2009 08:15AM

sorry mate I can't make it, it clashes with the football.

bauderline · 19-09-2009 08:44AM

Yeah.... There'll be loadsa people there.....

ahem...

Count Dooku · 19-09-2009 09:18AM

handsfree wrote: »

sorry mate I can't make it, it clashes with the football.

Blame yourself, if government will introduce NAMA and will screw you

MysticalRain · 19-09-2009 09:28AM

handsfree wrote: »

sorry mate I can't make it, it clashes with the football.

Bread and circuses...

Count Dooku · 19-09-2009 09:47AM

MysticalRain wrote: »

Bread and circuses...

I am beginning to think that majority of Irish people deserve their future…

ei.sdraob · 19-09-2009 11:40AM

synd wrote: »

Its time for action

IMHO

the communist imagery would put alot of people of

socializing all the risks onto the taxpayer is what NAMA is about

MikeC101 · 19-09-2009 11:59AM

Not going, because though I'm not happy with NAMA, I have no desire to listen to Richard Boyd Barett and his friends chant the usual slogans.

Diarmuid · 19-09-2009 12:28PM

MikeC101 wrote: »

Not going, because though I'm not happy with NAMA, I have no desire to listen to Richard Boyd Barett and his friends chant the usual slogans.

Agreed. Too many vested interest groups are willing to hijack the protest, be it SF, PeopleBeforeProfit (the dumbest name for a group ever) SWP etc...

bauderline · 19-09-2009 12:43PM

Didn't know who he was... looked him up on wikipedia... complete bullroot by the looks of it.

spank_inferno · 19-09-2009 12:54PM

Newstalk said there would be a protest against cutting childrens allowence?

Count Dooku · 19-09-2009 05:36PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

Newstalk said there would be a protest against cutting childrens allowence?

Not only

creeper1 · 20-09-2009 08:19AM

I checked the RTE website. Not a mere peep about the protest. I'd say it was a complete and utter failure.

Count Dooku · 20-09-2009 09:27AM

creeper1 wrote: »

I checked the RTE website. Not a mere peep about the protest. I'd say it was a complete and utter failure.

I told in advance that newspapers and RTE will ignore protest.
Irish media represent interests of current political establishment, but not ordinary people. If people would see that it was at least two relatively big protests, next time they would join themselves and protests become bigger and bigger. But Irish politicians cannot afford if people will decide themselves what to do. Politicians think that people exist for them. Opposition parties nearly agreed with NAMA. They ready to pay 54 Bn to FF as compensation for imposing cuts. Of coarse, they will object very hard on TV and newspapers, but they will do without any real threat to NAMA. Labours never will agree with FG. Opposition never will call people on streets. Even if they will call, they will always find way that this information will reach only limited number of people, like Labours did last Wednesday.
Politicians betrayed people and we cannot do anything against it

Count Dooku · 20-09-2009 09:44AM

creeper1 wrote: »

I checked the RTE website. Not a mere peep about the protest.

Imagine what will happen if people will see in newspapers this photo

Absurdum · 20-09-2009 10:30AM

Count Dooku wrote: »

Imagine what will happen if people will see in newspapers this photo

that's a big lollipop?

AlekSmart · 20-09-2009 11:06AM

Count Dooku,the people,as you put it,will not be seeing this picture in any great numbers `cos it`s worth SEVERAL thousand of Mr Lenihans words.....The wee child`s shoulders are already being burdened by debt to prove Mr Lenihans all encompassing breath of Financial Knowledge.

Evena cursory pore over his Dáil NAMA speech reveal a few too many "Approximately`s" "In the region of`s" and "About`s" for my liking as the Gentleman wont bring himself to admit that the Government have not got a bull`s notion how much this will cost the likes of that chizzler in the pic.

No wonder the likes of Mike Soden felt emboldened to come out batting for the Banking Fraternity last week !!!

20-09-2009 11:38AM

Me bird mate it into the indo. Not the best photo but tbh all the photographers were interested in was getting a picture of a hot chick out protesting.

In fact, one came over and told me to give my sign to her so he could take some pictures..

I'm ugly of course.

turgon · 20-09-2009 12:10PM

So the 6 year old kid has an educated opinion on interventionist economics I presume?

Same old groups, same old ignorance. This kind of march with these kind of groups isnt worth the Boards.ie database space this thread is stored on.

Count Dooku · 20-09-2009 05:19PM

turgon wrote: »

So the 6 year old kid has an educated opinion on interventionist economics I presume?

Economics is not a real science
It is art to give explanations, which nobody can understand, to simple things. i.e. attempt to hide low IQ behind complicated words
I afraid this kid can rule Irish economy better then whole bunch of Irish economists

Sand · 20-09-2009 06:16PM

Large numbers are expected - unlike the previous protest called by the mysterious facebook organization aka the (Irish peoples Union).

Good old Irish marxists...can never resist the need to take a shot at the *real* opposition.

Oh and that kids picture ( well the picture of his sign anyway) would be good PR alright. Might be a tad misleading, but **** it...most Irish voters have no idea about any issue anyway and Fianna Fail are masters of misinformation and spin.

It needs to be broken down into simple terms for Irish voters - the Irish government is borrowing 34,000 Euro in your name and the name of your children, to give it to the banks, so the banks can profiteer on your mortgage. Thats stuff Irish voters tend to grasp, whereas economics, politics, anything with more than two syllables tends to make their eyes glaze over.

Hangsangwich · 20-09-2009 07:38PM

I think the protest on Saturday was a failure. Too many interest groups were pushing too many issues. it should all have been kept much simpler.
Changes should come about step by step. The Lisbon referendum should have been kept out of this protest. The plight of Coca Cola workers or Dublin Port workers should also have been kept out of it.
Leaders with microphones were shouting slogans like "No to NAMA, No to cuts"
But maybe some people disagree with NAMA but agree to cuts. Straight away, the position or argument of the protestors had been diluted and weakened. This is why many people were standing at the side of the road, but refused to join in the march.
I think there was a deliberate effort by some to sabotage the protest against NAMA. And who is that woman with the mic' singing "Hey Big Spenders"? It was so cringey(if thats a word). How can anybody take these people seriously? These "leaders" did not seem enraged. Rather they seemed delighted to be in the spotlight.
My recommendation for next protest march, keep it simple. Stick to one issue. No to NAMA.

synd · 20-09-2009 08:05PM

Good old Irish marxists...can never resist the need to take a shot at the *real* opposition.

Your real opposition (facebook organization) managed to pull around 100 people to their last demo on sep 12 - the additional 300 where provided by the far-left. Prob due to sympathy. Sep 19 - largely organized by the socialist workers party/PBP saw around 2,500 at its peak, numbers declined after an hour spent at AIB. Additionally - this is not an SWP figure, they calculated 5,000 + (overestimation is an understatement).

Needless to say we saw a respectable turnout, and this is the beginning of a running campaign. Had the socialist party campaigned to the same extent as the SWP and the various other left organizations made it an issue - we could have amassed around 10 thousand in my opinion.

synd · 20-09-2009 08:21PM

Changes should come about step by step. The Lisbon referendum should have been kept out of this protest.

NAMA and Lisbon are linked somewhat, however the focus should have been kept on NAMA. Point taken.

The plight of Coca Cola workers or Dublin Port workers should also have been kept out of it.

I disagree - the plight of ordinary people is essentially what the anti NAMA message is about. Its about portraying the general hypocrisy of the capitalist system ie. banks being bailed with money that could be used for more socially productive purposes.

Leaders with microphones were shouting slogans like "No to NAMA, No to cuts"But maybe some people disagree with NAMA but agree to cuts.

Liberals who are solely interested in re-configuring the current system in a fashion more conductive with upper class accumulation are quite obviously against the mandate of the organizations who both organized and attended. I would have thought the red flags where a dead giveaway.

Straight away, the position or argument of the protestors had been diluted and weakened. This is why many people were standing at the side of the road, but refused to join in the march.

The people who refused to join understood the idealogical compilation of the protesting body and decided to steer clear.

I think there was a deliberate effort by some to sabotage the protest against NAMA.

In general anyone not from the broad left with the exception of mr IPU was denied a platform.

And who is that woman with the mic' singing "Hey Big Spenders"? It was so cringey(if thats a word). How can anybody take these people seriously?

Your absolutely right about this

These "leaders" did not seem enraged. Rather they seemed delighted to be in the spotlight.

Broyd Barret started on an excellent tone - but eventually his speech degenerated due to overt prolongation. Joe Higgens was fantastic - Kieran Allen also gave a great speech. BTW - Im not in the SWP and am generally give critical of their methods.

My recommendation for next protest march, keep it simple. Stick to one issue. No to NAMA.

Oppositional politics wont effect any change whatsoever - it would only serve to direct people towards an intellectual culdisac.

Count Dooku · 20-09-2009 08:52PM

synd wrote: »

Your real opposition (facebook organization) managed to pull around 100 people to their last demo on sep 12 - the additional 300 where provided by the far-left.

It was around 1200 first time and less then 100 lefties

Not bad, especially when it was pure antiNAMA protest, not antiCOCACOLA, like this time

Sand · 20-09-2009 08:54PM

Your real opposition (facebook organization)...

Woooosh

*Your* real opposition then....

Too many interest groups were pushing too many issues. it should all have been kept much simpler.

Yep - people wont join something they disagree with. Hence keep the proposal on common shared points: NAMA is a bad policy, it needs to be dropped. End of. People of all stripes can agree with that.

Of course radical leftists and the ****ing crazies with fringe issues and so on dont really care...theyre used to having little or no public support. They probably dont really care if NAMA passes or not. Its irrelevant to them. Theyd probably be worried if they found themselves in a broadly supported movement or march.

dresden8 · 20-09-2009 09:02PM

turgon wrote: »

So the 6 year old kid has an educated opinion on interventionist economics I presume?

Not like the masters of our universe that have led us to this pretty mess, who are telling us to move along, nothing to see here.

At this stage I'd rather trust the 6 year old. He could probably make a good deal on pokemon swaps, not like the current crop of bankers who have absolutely no business acumen at all.

They give away ten cards for the promise of 20 in the future from a bunch of thieves. Most 6 year olds know that's a bad deal

synd · 20-09-2009 09:49PM

1. The Irish peoples Union - (all 15 of them)
2. Save our ladies hospital (community group from crumlin/drimnnagh)
2. People Before Profit aka The Socialist Workers Party

- marching with Sinn fein (the later now enjoy more support within the city than Finna Fail) while Richard Broyd Barret of the SWP - defeated John Bailey of Finna Gael in the recent council elections. Considerable victory given you need somewhere in the region of 8000 votes for that particular area.
3. Few non affiliated protesters

Overall around 850 tops - this is RTEs estimation by the way.

The socialist workers party addressing the protest

synd · 20-09-2009 10:11PM

Of course radical leftists and the ****ing crazies with fringe issues and so on dont really care...theyre used to having little or no public support. They probably dont really care if NAMA passes or not. Its irrelevant to them. Theyd probably be worried if they found themselves in a broadly supported movement or march.

Comments like this indicate your general ignorance of the urban political climate. Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party (a revolutionary Marxist organization) took 82,366 votes in the recent European elections - defeating all Fianna Fáil candidates ''Eoin Ryan and Eibhlin Byrne'' - Sinn Féin - and the Greens. Additionally the SWP now hold around 5 council seats as do the SP. Lets also not forget the array of socialist organizations who (don't) run candidates.

Small in the national picture maybe but ''no public support'' is more than an understatement

I would also contend from a sociological perspective that whatever catches on in the urban centers will invariably spread to the peripheral regions where civil war politics is predominant.

Additionally - your particular economic ideology (libertarianism) would prob be closest represented by either the PDs or Libertas. Not much support there.

Sand · 20-09-2009 10:37PM

Additionally - your particular economic ideology (libertarianism) would prob be closest represented by either the PDs or Libertas. Not much support there.

Actually, Libertas are one of the fringe ****ing crazies that you lads pal about with on Lisbon. You are closer in idealogy to them than I am

Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party (a revolutionary Marxist organization) took 82,366 votes in the recent European elections - defeating all Fianna Fáil candidates ''Eoin Ryan and Eibhlin Byrne'' - Sinn Féin - and the Greens.

Right, so you reckon there are 82,366 revolutionary Marxists in Joe Higgins constituency alone?

Look - sad to say, the European elections tend to be for the protest votes (look at Lisbon...), ****ing crazies and old party warhorses put out to water. The same Joe Higgins lost his seat in the Dail, which is probably a truer measure of his programme popularity.

As for the PDs, when they came into being they were the only economically and socially liberal party in existence. By the time they went out, even Labour were promising tax cuts to win elections.

No one is stealing ideas from the SWP, or "revolutionary marxists".

turgon · 20-09-2009 10:45PM

Hangsangwich wrote: »

Straight away, the position or argument of the protestors had been diluted and weakened.

This a classic scenario of the economically Left. They just cannot keep to one issue - they feel the need to talk about everything. I was in Berlin, and for the crack I joined in in an anti-nuclear power march (I am pro-nuclear power). Even in that march the leftists tried to hijack it, giving out "Make Capitalism History" flyers etc.

dresden8 wrote: »

Not like the masters of our universe that have led us to this pretty mess, who are telling us to move along, nothing to see here.

Erm, I wouldt describe the economic decisions of the last 10 years in anyway good. FF's making a mess doesnt discredit economics in the slightest.

dresden8 wrote: »

They give away ten cards for the promise of 20 in the future from a bunch of thieves. Most 6 year olds know that's a bad deal

:pac: I laughed!

dresden8 · 20-09-2009 11:02PM

turgon wrote: »

:pac: I laughed!

I took a pay cut.

Count Dooku · 21-09-2009 06:52AM

turgon wrote: »

Erm, I wouldt describe the economic decisions of the last 10 years in anyway good. FF's making a mess doesnt discredit economics in the slightest.

What about USA with sub-prime mortgages?

Amhran Nua · 21-09-2009 08:47AM

I popped in for a quick look and to hand out a few AN flyers, generally gauge interest and see what it was all about. From what I could see the SWP, who have protests most days of the week down in Galway, seem to think its their chance to overturn the capitalist bourgeoise and gather the masses under their banner.

Most if not all of the groups there were SWP fronts or otherwise joined to that group, which is a habit they have - form lots of hydralike new groups because they know nobody can stomach them, jumping onto any cause going, then attempt to move them into the organisation, which routinely fails because once people know what they have signed up for, they leave in a hurry.

I also spoke to several of the leaders of these groups before, during, and after the protest, which did little to allay my concerns.

One thing I did notice however was the expressions on the faces of people on the street as the march passed by. "Happy" was not the term I would have used - arms folded, frowns, not a cheer to be heard. Very few want the SWP or similar extremist groups in Ireland, for good reasons.

Its very frustrating to see that the only visible protesting is being done by these professional protestors though.

Kruk · 21-09-2009 12:13PM

Are there more photos available?

21-09-2009 12:26PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I popped in for a quick look and to hand out a few AN flyers, generally gauge interest and see what it was all about. From what I could see the SWP, who have protests most days of the week down in Galway, seem to think its their chance to overturn the capitalist bourgeoise and gather the masses under their banner.

Most if not all of the groups there were SWP fronts or otherwise joined to that group, which is a habit they have - form lots of hydralike new groups because they know nobody can stomach them, jumping onto any cause going, then attempt to move them into the organisation, which routinely fails because once people know what they have signed up for, they leave in a hurry.

I also spoke to several of the leaders of these groups before, during, and after the protest, which did little to allay my concerns.

One thing I did notice however was the expressions on the faces of people on the street as the march passed by. "Happy" was not the term I would have used - arms folded, frowns, not a cheer to be heard. Very few want the SWP or similar extremist groups in Ireland, for good reasons.

Its very frustrating to see that the only visible protesting is being done by these professional protestors though.

I was holding a Labour 'no to NAMA' sign I'd gotten during the week and was at one stage (around college green) told that political signs were to be further back "Behind the Unions".

I got kinda puzzled then as to what I was marching for. See I thought it was an anti-NAMA march that the unions latched onto, but this steward was telling me that it was the other way around.

Good to see numbers increasing all the same. There was easily about 4k people there. Don't listen to anyone saying 1-2k.

I agree with means testing CB though. And for cuts that are fair to everybody. So I'm left twiddling my thumbs for long periods of time....

Count Dooku · 21-09-2009 12:50PM

Kruk wrote: »

Are there more photos available?

Count Dooku · 21-09-2009 12:58PM

Count Dooku · 21-09-2009 01:06PM