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The Stuff Jesus Never Did.
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08-10-2009 03:12PM#1Firstly, apologies if a similar thread already exists. I would have searched but alas there's no option to search
Anyways,
One thing that always puzzled me about when God decided to come to earth in human form. He didn't really do anything 'Godlike'. The God of the Old Testament had no reservations in showing his power. Not only that but his actions were witnessed by thousands, even if only recorded by a few. Jesus on the other hand did comparatively nothing. Sure he walked on water, changed water in wine, calmed a storm but all these were done in front of a small select group of people. He was the God who created the world and yet that was all he did, stuff which, if it were performed today, nobody would actually believe.
Why not do something that couldn't be questioned, such as tell us about what diseases actually were,the dinosaurs, the stars, how to cure cancer, how to predict earthquakes, status of women, indicate when the next eclipse would be,or the next sky-time 'fireball', fertilize a desert, show some cool physics trick that defied common sense at the time etc etc?
Instead He insured that there would be ambiguity and doubt, by preaching stuff which was already preached a thousands times over by the various other religions. If He were the creator of the heavens and the earth then surely He would have actually shown us something beyond any reasonable measure of doubt?
Go on tear me apart
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Firstly, apologies if a similar thread already exists. I would have searched but alas there's no option to search
Anyways,
One thing that always puzzled me about when God decided to come to earth in human form. He didn't really do anything 'Godlike'. The God of the Old Testament had no reservations in showing his power. Not only that but his actions were witnessed by thousands, even if only recorded by a few. Jesus on the other hand did comparatively nothing. Sure he walked on water, changed water in wine, calmed a storm but all these were done in front of a small select group of people. He was the God who created the world and yet that was all he did, stuff which, if it were performed today, nobody would actually believe.
Why not do something that couldn't be questioned, such as tell us about what diseases actually were,the dinosaurs, the stars, how to cure cancer, how to predict earthquakes, status of women, indicate when the next eclipse would be,or the next sky-time 'fireball', fertilize a desert, show some cool physics trick that defied common sense at the time etc etc?
Instead He insured that there would be ambiguity and doubt, by preaching stuff which was already preached a thousands times over by the various other religions. If He were the creator of the heavens and the earth then surely He would have actually shown us something beyond any reasonable measure of doubt?
Go on tear me apart
He did the most God-like thing of all. He sacrificed Himself for a bunch of ungrateful underserving wretches. He bore the weight and punishment of every sin and crime that every human being ever committed, or ever will commit, and concentrated that suffering into an unimaginable torment for the few hours that He hung on the Cross.
The Pharisees wanted the kind of show that you are looking for. They wanted Him to perform a mighty conjouring trick by coming down off the Cross. They would have believed in Him if He had done that. But we believe in Him because he chose to stay on the Cross.0 -
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Why not do something that couldn't be questioned, such as tell us about what diseases actually were..
He went one better and cured them
....status of women...
He did.show some cool physics trick that defied common sense at the time etc etc? Like walking on water, and controlling the weather... how many people need to see something before it's acceptable now?If He were the creator of the heavens and the earth then surely He would have actually shown us something beyond any reasonable measure of doubt?
Wouldn't that negate everything He said about faith and belief? I'd recommend Rowan Atkinson's "Amazing Jesus" sketch, if you haven't seen it already btw.0 -
Brilliant:DI'd recommend Rowan Atkinson's "Amazing Jesus" sketch, if you haven't seen it already btw.
For only a few people though, and He revealed nothing about the origin of simple diseases that we no longer worry about today.He went one better and cured them
Cool! Apologies, I never knew that, what exactly did he say??[Status of Women]
He did.
That's just it though, all there was present for all these things was a select few individuals. But if you want to be really pedantic, insects walk on water and under the right conditions humans can too. Cloud seeding is something humanity has done before Like walking on water, and controlling the weather... how many people need to see something before it's acceptable now?
When our computers get powerful enough controlling the weather and predicting it will be a breeze:D. (Pardon the pun:o)
It may, then again it might not. Imagine if He simply made simple predictions for, say, the movement of the planets or the weather on such a date at such a time..or if He caused a supernova, or told us when one hit the earth in the past. His case would have been far more convincing.Wouldn't that negate everything He said about faith and belief?
As it stands now, He created us so that we may worship Him, He came to earth to save us from our own sins, but we are only saved if we believe He did????
P.s Is this the same 'prinz' that spent so many posts on the European Union defending Lisbon? If so, I bow my hat to you good sir/madam.
Fair Play 0 -
Cool! Apologies, I never knew that, what exactly did he say??
Jesus allowed women to travel with him on his ministry, at a time when women were usually at confined to home doing domestic duties Luke 8, 1-5 Jesus frequently spoke with women which at the time I think was a bit of a novelty for religious Jewish types; the woman at the well, Samaritan women, he also taught women in theology Luke 10, 38-42, education for women wasn't a strong point in Jesus' day (especially when it came to religious studies). He defended the woman about to be stoned for adultery (the punishment for the woman was death, the punishment for the man was....er nothing)..., and the fact that so many women appear in the Gospels themselves is testament to the fact that they were given a special responsibility. IIRC in the times that were in it women were not allowed to give evidence because their word was not as worthy/valid as that of a man. However we see women appearing frequently in the Gospels, and it was women who brought the news of the resurrection to the disciples, seems an odd choice in a world where womens opinions and integrity was routinely questioned. Also in those days a man was allowed to divorce his wife for any reason, but Jesus evened up the score on that front with regard to adultery. In the early Christian churches men like St Paul continued in this vein of thought, by preaching respect, equality of the sexes etc. Fairly revolutionary stuff when you consider the world that He was living in.P.s Is this the same 'prinz' that spent so many posts on the European Union defending Lisbon? If so, I bow my hat to you good sir/madam.
Fair Play
It sure is. Sir would do nicely
. It was an interesting few days :pac: 0 -
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Jesus allowed women to travel with him on his ministry, at a time when women were usually at confined to home doing domestic duties Luke 8, 1-5 Jesus frequently spoke with women which at the time I think was a bit of a novelty for religious Jewish types; the woman at the well, Samaritan women, he also taught women in theology Luke 10, 38-42, education for women wasn't a strong point in Jesus' day (especially when it came to religious studies). He defended the woman about to be stoned for adultery (the punishment for the woman was death, the punishment for the man was....er nothing)..., and the fact that so many women appear in the Gospels themselves is testament to the fact that they were given a special responsibility. IIRC in the times that were in it women were not allowed to give evidence because their word was not as worthy/valid as that of a man. However we see women appearing frequently in the Gospels, and it was women who brought the news of the resurrection to the disciples, seems an odd choice in a world where womens opinions and integrity was routinely questioned. Also in those days a man was allowed to divorce his wife for any reason, but Jesus evened up the score on that front with regard to adultery. In the early Christian churches men like St Paul continued in this vein of thought, by preaching respect, equality of the sexes etc. Fairly revolutionary stuff when you consider the world that He was living in.
Awesome stuff, my positive opinion of the guy has risen even more:)
Ok sir
It sure is. Sir would do nicely. It was an interesting few days :pac:. Twas indeed, some of it was somewhat depressing though.:( 0 -
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So, which two-bit con-artist cult leaders do you know of who have walked on water, fed 5000 people with a few loaves and fishes, turned water into wine, healed the blind, raised the dead, caused a withered arm to return to normal, stilled a storm by speaking to it, and re-attached a severed ear?
Don't you mean which two-bit con-artist cult leaders have convinced some of their followers that they have walked on water etc
Imagine if Chris Angel had done something similar to this in 35 AD
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