Gardai shooting fish in a barrel?

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 03:40PM #1

Gardai in north Tipp seem to have stepped up their speed checks, is this happening anywhere else. I've seen them working the old Dublin-Cork road, now 80kph. Also on good stretch of road out of toomevara. 7 drivers I know have got points for speeding, this week. all were slightly over the old speed limit for the road they were caucht on. All offences were at quite times, no pedestrians, children or other hazards other than wet roads at the time.

ottostreet · 07-11-2009 03:45PM

Maybe so, but there isnt really much you or I can do about it. The law is there, and if someone is caught, its their own fault!

Matt Bauer · 07-11-2009 03:47PM

They should have used the toll road.

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 03:53PM

No toll road in north Tipp. I'm talking about local traffic here.

Matt Bauer · 07-11-2009 03:56PM

I take that back and apologize, I thought they were avoiding the toll road and not local traffic.

junkyard · 07-11-2009 03:59PM

ottostreet wrote: »

Maybe so, but there isnt really much you or I can do about it. The law is there, and if someone is caught, its their own fault!

The law is an ass at the best of times, it's just more tax collecting at it's best, sick to death of this place.:(

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 04:00PM

ottostreet wrote: »

Maybe so, but there isnt really much you or I can do about it. The law is there, and if someone is caught, its their own fault!

It may be breaking the law, but what if the law is wrong. 3 friends were caught on urlingford cashel stretch, near Marywillies, this is a wide modern main road in good condition. This road carried all the traffic between Dublin and Cork at 100kph. Why now 80kph?

ottostreet · 07-11-2009 04:17PM

2 stroke wrote: »

It may be breaking the law, but what if the law is wrong. 3 friends were caught on urlingford cashel stretch, near Marywillies, this is a wide modern main road in good condition. This road carried all the traffic between Dublin and Cork at 100kph. Why now 80kph?

Oh I'm not trying to argue with you...I think most limits are too low and have too many points from speeding where I decided to ignore the (in my opinion) stupidly low limit.

The only thing is when I'm caught, I cant really blame anyone but myself for ignoring the posted limit, im completely resigned to that fact!

Mr. Presentable · 07-11-2009 04:25PM

OP, are you saying they were over the old limit? They were doing over 100 on a wet road where the limit is 80? Is that what you are saying?

With regard to your thread title "shooting fish in a barrel", simple solution - don't be a fish!

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 04:42PM

One was doing 105 on a road where the limit until recently was 100, another was doing 72kph where the limit until recently 40 mph. not sure what speed the others were doing. There is no good reason for the reduction in these speed limits the roads were just downgraded when the new road went through.

Anan1 · 07-11-2009 04:59PM

2 stroke wrote: »

One was doing 105 on a road where the limit until recently was 100, another was doing 72kph where the limit until recently 40 mph. not sure what speed the others were doing. There is no good reason for the reduction in these speed limits the roads were just downgraded when the new road went through.

Gardai don't set speed limits, they're only paid to enforce them. If you feel the current limits are too low then you could make a representation to your local TD.

Sandwich · 07-11-2009 05:18PM

The aim is to catch fish, so do it the easiest way. Hitting a target rich area is the logical way to do so.

Matt Bauer · 07-11-2009 05:27PM

I disagree with the sentiment that most posted speed limits are too low. However, I think a lot of the speed limits are inappropriate, as in either much too low or much to high. I know of many roads were 80 would be pushing it, and should be the posted limit, and yet it's 100.

I also know many roads where 100 is perfectly safe, yet the posted limit is 80.

Seems to be that it's split somewhere right down the middle.

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 05:28PM

Anan1 wrote: »

Gardai don't set speed limits, they're only paid to enforce them. If you feel the current limits are too low then you could make a representation to your local TD.

Were the Gardai not given responsibility to review speed limits a few years ago?

EPM · 07-11-2009 05:34PM

Anan1 wrote: »

Gardai don't set speed limits, they're only paid to enforce them. If you feel the current limits are too low then you could make a representation to your local TD.

Completely agree. The things people crib about. It's the law-live with it or lobby someone if it bothers you that much. The whining reminds me of the complaining about not being able to drive after a few. The cops are just doing their job in fairness

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 05:39PM

Sandwich wrote: »

The aim is to catch fish, so do it the easiest way. Hitting a target rich area is the logical way to do so.

The aim should not be to catch fish but to remove dangerous drivers. I have no issue with limits being strictly enforced at school times, but at other times strict enforcment isnt necessary.
Or are Gardai now told to increase revenue through fines.

pondasher · 07-11-2009 05:39PM

The guards only enforce the speed limits that North Tipp county council set for road network in the area. You should contact your local county councilors and get them to have the local limits changed.

EPM · 07-11-2009 05:43PM

2 stroke wrote: »

The aim should not be to catch fish but to remove dangerous drivers. I have no issue with limits being strictly enforced at school times, but at other times strict enforcment isnt necessary.
Or are Gardai now told to increase revenue through fines.

You mentioned wet roads? that would be enough for me to think that people should stay at or below the limit. In fairness that's not a great road

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 05:52PM

pondasher wrote: »

The guards only enforce the speed limits that North Tipp county council set for road network in the area. You should contact your local county councilors and get them to have the local limits changed.

My original intention when starting this thread wasn't to complain, but to inform other drivers of increased speedtrap activity in north tipp and to enquire if this is hapenning in other counties. I am considering making a complaint to the relevant athorities but there is little one voice can do. Looking for more info nationwide about recent speedtrap activity.

Seth Brundle · 07-11-2009 05:53PM

EPM wrote: »

You mentioned wet roads? that would be enough for me to think that people should stay at or below the limit. In fairness that's not a great road

I don't know this road but making a blanket assumption that exceeding a speed limit just because its wet is not fair. Many speed limits are not logically thought out. Many good roads were lowered from 100km/h to 80km/h simply because a parallel motorway was built.

Seth Brundle · 07-11-2009 05:55PM

2 stroke wrote: »

I am considering making a complaint to the relevant athorities but there is little one voice can do. Looking for more info nationwide about recent speedtrap activity.

A complaint? About what? Because the gardai are doing their job?
However, if you want more info, I would try contacting the Garda Press Office rather than an internet forum first

EPM · 07-11-2009 05:56PM

Parts of it hold water quite badly and even when it was the main road it was woefully inadequate. There are worse mind

Shazbot · 07-11-2009 05:57PM

Naturally I agree that over the limit is over the limit and you should be fined.
However, there are many places where the Gardai set up speed cameras where the speed limit is low and easily exceeded with little danger. For example, last Monday there was a van placed at the end of the M1 southbound just after the port tunnel where the speed limit drops to 50kph. Easily getting people at around 80kph.

What I'd like to see is them catching dangerous driving and speeding on poorly made roads with high speed limits.

So yea, they are shooting fish in a barrel but they are also picking the obvious places to make money rather than to make the roads safer.

Best bet is to not to speed (easier said than done though).

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 05:57PM

EPM wrote: »

In fairness that's not a great road

You are obviously unfamiliar with this road.

CrowdedHouse · 07-11-2009 05:59PM

That road outside Toomevara is a well known speed trap for at least the last 30 years

EPM · 07-11-2009 06:01PM

2 stroke wrote: »

You are obviously unfamiliar with this road.

I was speaking of the old Cork-Dublin road you mentioned in your opening post. Apologies if wires crossed or anything. I was speaking about stretches of that

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 06:23PM

EPM wrote: »

I was speaking of the old Cork-Dublin road you mentioned in your opening post. Apologies if wires crossed or anything. I was speaking about stretches of that

Agreed there are some very bad sections on this road. But last thursday evening there was a very active speed trap on one of the best sections between Urlingford and the Horse & Jockey.

2 stroke · 07-11-2009 06:35PM

kbannon wrote: »

A complaint? About what? Because the gardai are doing their job?
However, if you want more info, I would try contacting the Garda Press Office rather than an internet forum first

With limited Gardai resources, efforts should be concentrated to more dangerous stretches of road and near schools ect. Also speed limits should be more appropriate to road capacity not to road designation as national primary or not.

TheNog · 07-11-2009 10:50PM

2 stroke wrote: »

Were the Gardai not given responsibility to review speed limits a few years ago?

No I believe that was the NRA

2 stroke wrote: »

The aim should not be to catch fish but to remove dangerous drivers. I have no issue with limits being strictly enforced at school times, but at other times strict enforcment isnt necessary.
Or are Gardai now told to increase revenue through fines.

Dangerous drivers drive on our roads at all times of the day. Not just at school dropping off or collecting time.

And no AGS were not told to increase revenue through fines.

2 stroke wrote: »

With limited Gardai resources, efforts should be concentrated to more dangerous stretches of road and near schools ect. Also speed limits should be more appropriate to road capacity not to road designation as national primary or not.

Straight stretches of roads can be just as dangerous as the roads with numerous bends.

BostonB · 08-11-2009 01:21AM

TheNog wrote: »

Straight stretches of roads can be just as dangerous as the roads with numerous bends.

Have you got something to back that up?

BostonB · 08-11-2009 01:32AM

EPM wrote: »

Completely agree. The things people crib about. It's the law-live with it or lobby someone if it bothers you that much. The whining reminds me of the complaining about not being able to drive after a few. The cops are just doing their job in fairness

Yet your complaining (whining) about someone complaining. :rolleyes:

"Only doing my job" has to be the worst excuse ever. Complaints often highlight a genuine issue.

TheNog · 08-11-2009 01:35AM

BostonB wrote: »

Have you got something to back that up?

Yes, I have experience

BostonB · 08-11-2009 01:41AM

TheNog wrote: »

Yes, I have experience

So no then.

bladebrew · 08-11-2009 01:44AM

BostonB wrote: »

So no then.

oh no you didnt:eek:

BostonB · 08-11-2009 01:52AM

bladebrew wrote: »

oh no you didnt:eek:

Why not just answer the question instead of arson.

TheNog · 08-11-2009 01:53AM

BostonB wrote: »

So no then.

Just my word. Im not forcing it down your neck. Take it or leave it.

BostonB · 08-11-2009 02:00AM

Is it a secret?

If theres some stats that say theres a straight road has the same accident rate as a twisty road with blind corners that would be interesting. Obviously some straight roads are a magnet for high speed overtakers, and blind dips and junctions on the same are lethal, lack of central barriers etc.

Saying trust me isn't.

TheNog · 08-11-2009 02:06AM

BostonB wrote: »

Is it a secret?

If theres some stats that say theres a straight road has the same accident rate as a twisty road with blind corners that would be interesting. Obviously some straight roads are a magnet for high speed overtakers, and blind dips and junctions on the same are lethal, lack of central barriers etc.

Saying trust me isn't.

No secret. Just my experiences is all I offer. I reckon has stood to me in the last years posting here on Motors to give motorists a perspective of how we see and deal with incidents on the road.

BostonB · 08-11-2009 02:13AM

"Trust me" creeps me out. Blind faith doesn't do it for me either.

I don't subscribe to the idea that a safety measure like a speed trap is best placed in location where there no history of accidents, and that you change driver behavour by catching 80% of people out where perhaps the limits are inappropriate. I don't believe that people who claim to never speed, or break a law, have never done so, ever.

TheNog · 08-11-2009 02:35AM

BostonB wrote: »

"Trust me" creeps me out. Blind faith doesn't do it for me either.

I don't subscribe to the idea that a safety measure like a speed trap is best placed in location where there no history of accidents, and that you change driver behavour by catching 80% of people out where perhaps the limits are inappropriate. I don't believe that people who claim to never speed, or break a law, have never done so, ever.

never asked anyone to trust me. just tryin to give people a different view of what happens out there.

believe it or not people do not know where a histroy of where collisions occur unless they are serious collisions which usually reach local media. I know where collisions usually occur in my district cause I have been to them or see the incidents on PULSE. Thats where we concentrate our speed checks and show as much visibilty as possible.

BostonB · 08-11-2009 03:32AM

TheNog wrote: »

never asked anyone to trust me. just tryin to give people a different view of what happens out there..

I never said you did. But your answer implied that. I asked for information and didn't get it. If the information is not published, then how would people know?

TheNog wrote: »

believe it or not people do not know where a histroy of where collisions occur unless they are serious collisions which usually reach local media. I know where collisions usually occur in my district cause I have been to them or see the incidents on PULSE. Thats where we concentrate our speed checks and show as much visibilty as possible.

Believe it or not. People have eyes. They see accidents for themselves, or near misses in the same locations in the places they go through on a daily basis. Its only logical to assume these locations are more dangerous, (accidents happen more often) than places where they never see accidents. Yet most often you see speed checks in the latter location.

It appears its not solely on experience. But its where its reported on Pulse. So therefore a map of pulse hotspots would match with speed trap locations. More or less. If this information avaible under a FOI request?

BostonB · 08-11-2009 03:37AM

Also people often complain about dangerous locations long before theres an accident happens there. So its not rocket science, its usually obvious.

luckyfrank · 08-11-2009 10:38AM

Ive no problem paying fines if im caught breaking the law it's the penalty points that really irk me

BostonB · 08-11-2009 11:25AM

That's why it works better than a fine.

2 stroke · 08-11-2009 12:52PM

On the issue of straight stretches of road being just as dangerous as twisty sections. There are cases where this can appear so. If there is a straight section after a series of bends, this straight section will likely see an above average amount of overtaking,in both directions. Drivers that have been held up behind slow moving vehicles, on the twisty section will be trying to get ahead and drivers travelling towards the twisty section, that know the road, will be trying to overtake before they get stuck behind slow moving traffic.
This can lead to the appearance that the straight section is more dangerous than the bendy section.

cadaliac · 08-11-2009 01:47PM

2 stroke wrote: »

On the issue of straight stretches of road being just as dangerous as twisty sections. There are cases where this can appear so. If there is a straight section after a series of bends, this straight section will likely see an above average amount of overtaking,in both directions. Drivers that have been held up behind slow moving vehicles, on the twisty section will be trying to get ahead and drivers travelling towards the twisty section, that know the road, will be trying to overtake before they get stuck behind slow moving traffic.
This can lead to the appearance that the straight section is more dangerous than the bendy section.

+1
Cork to Mallow road being a prime example. The whole road is lethal. Badly designed and a very high rate of accidents.
I havn't seen any increase of speed traps around the Cork area OP - but there is certainly an increase in random breath testing in my area.

BostonB · 08-11-2009 02:20PM

Basically there's more to it than just road straightneas. There other factors. Makes sense.

Matt Bauer · 08-11-2009 02:26PM

EPM wrote: »

Completely agree. The things people crib about. It's the law-live with it or lobby someone if it bothers you that much. The whining reminds me of the complaining about not being able to drive after a few. The cops are just doing their job in fairness

Only doing my job, only following orders... worst excuse ever.

Again I would like to qualify that by saying that, in fact, many speed limits are set to high. For example, I know a few long stretches of road where 80 is already pushing it and yet the limit is 100. However, just following orders just doesn't cut it. It's a classic defense used by war criminals when they're being held accountable for their actions, so I don't like that kind of excuse.

2 stroke · 08-11-2009 03:49PM

Is it true that speed limits are set on the basis of wether the road is a cie bus route or not. ie. 100kmph on bus routes with 60kmph through villages, 80kmph on non bus routes with 50kmph through villages. Sounds crazy, but a quick analysis of local roads supports this theory.

Anan1 · 08-11-2009 04:29PM

Matt Bauer wrote: »

However, just following orders just doesn't cut it. It's a classic defense used by war criminals when they're being held accountable for their actions, so I don't like that kind of excuse.

OK, i've stopped laughing now. Are you seriously suggesting that serving Gardai should refuse to enforce the laws passed by a democratically elected government?

EPM · 08-11-2009 06:09PM

BostonB wrote: »

Yet your complaining (whining) about someone complaining. :rolleyes:

"Only doing my job" has to be the worst excuse ever. Complaints often highlight a genuine issue.

Excuse? LOL! That's the law and they are enforcing it. I really don't see the problem with doing that

Gardai shooting fish in a barrel?

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