Health Care Bill Passed

Overheal · 25-12-2009 02:04AM #1

Im in the middle of yule times and alchohol but I just spotted this:

http://consumerist.com/2009/12/senate-passes-health-care-reform-bill.html

We will mull this over tomorrow, during the airing of grievances.

For now more Mead!

LostinKildare · 25-12-2009 12:31PM

Slainte!

SLUSK · 26-12-2009 03:20PM

How will they pay for this health care bill?

Pocono Joe · 26-12-2009 03:32PM

Let the increases in health care insurance premiums begin! :mad:

The Mad Hatter · 26-12-2009 05:03PM

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Let the increases in health care insurance premiums begin! :mad:

Well you're already paying dozens of times more than anyone else in the western world, so why not a little more? Incidentally, that's what the public option was for.

Lockstep · 26-12-2009 05:43PM

SLUSK wrote: »

How will they pay for this health care bill?

Given how much Americans pay on private healthcare costs, taxation combined with lower premiums is perfectly possible.

kev9100 · 26-12-2009 06:35PM

Remember, this bill still might fail. It still needs to go back to the House and a number of Dems in the House have voiced concerns over any bill that does not contain a Public Option or at the least a Medicare expansion. Also, if the Dems try and get rid of the Stupak Amendment they could lose even more votes. There are still a number of road bumps ahead before Healthcare reform passes.

JohnMc1 · 27-12-2009 06:45PM

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Let the increases in health care insurance premiums begin! :mad:

Not only that but the 8% tax increase as well. And we still have to see if Cap & Tax goes through which would practically double our utility bills.

I'll be laughing at the College kids in a few years when they have to start paying for this and they start complaining about all these taxes.

kev9100 · 27-12-2009 07:50PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Not only that but the 8% tax increase as well. And we still have to see if Cap & Tax goes through which would practically double our utility bills.

Where are you getting the 8% figure from and what tax bracket will it affect?

JohnMc1 · 27-12-2009 08:00PM

kev9100 wrote: »

Where are you getting the 8% figure from and what tax bracket will it affect?

Here's a hint. You won't find that on boldprogressives. Every US taxpayer will be paying that extra 8%.

kev9100 · 27-12-2009 08:07PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Here's a hint. You won't find that on boldprogressives. Every US taxpayer will be paying that extra 8%.

For every future politician out there, I want you to study this answer from JohnMc1 very carefully. It is a perfect example of ignoring the question asked and then citicising someone for an act that he himself is guilty of. Out of interest, what site would I get it from?

JohnMc1 · 27-12-2009 08:11PM

kev9100 wrote: »

For every future politician out there, I want you to study this answer from JohnMc1 very carefully. It is a perfect example of ignoring the question asked and then citicising someone for an act that he himself is guilty of. Out of interest, what site would I get it from?

For every future tax payer and one with entitlement issues please study kev9100's posts. If you are going to push for entitlement programs you should know how its going be paid.

kev9100 · 27-12-2009 09:23PM

Well as far as I am aware, the House bill will be paid for with a surcharge of 5.4 % on incomes over 500,000 per person or 1,000,000 per family. The senate bill will be paid for with a reduction in certain tax credits and a new tax on high priced premiums.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20091224/ts_usnews/howthesenatebillwouldchangehealthcare

So I ask again. Where did you get the 8% from?

Pocono Joe · 28-12-2009 12:13PM

Drunk with power, drunk with self righteous, and just plain drunk… this is who is writing our health care reform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Y9X5ggxzA

silverharp · 28-12-2009 08:43PM

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Drunk with power, drunk with self righteous, and just plain drunk… this is who is writing our health care reform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Y9X5ggxzA

beat me to it , too drunk to drive but eh erm..................

sceptre · 28-12-2009 08:53PM

Where's the 8% from then? kev9100 has kindly stated where the 5.4% is from and I don't like timewasting. I suspect, somehow, that I may end up needing to examine more closely what's being posted on this subforum judging by the extra reading I've done on it today.

kev9100 · 28-12-2009 11:11PM

Any chance were going to see that 8% link any time soon John? Or can we put that idea into the "It sounded good at the time even though I have no proof" pile?:D

Just wondering.

JohnMc1 · 28-12-2009 11:31PM

while it doesn't say 8% it states you will be paying more because if this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574471292249934348.html

JohnMc1 · 28-12-2009 11:42PM

The last couple of pages of this give a projection of how much we will be paying by the time its fully implemented.

http://cwa.3cdn.net/369109d8b2e45264c5_vrm6ybzgi.pdf

Fr Tod Umptious · 28-12-2009 11:55PM

Overheal wrote: »

We will mull this over tomorrow, during the airing of grievances.

A bit late for that, everyone knows that Festivus is on the 23rd, so you were already 2 days late when you posted

kev9100 · 29-12-2009 12:14AM

I am sorry john but those links dont stack up. For one they analyse the bill that came out from the Senate Finance Committee in October. The Senate bill has changed drastically since October. Give us the links that show the current senate bill (which has been scored by the CBO and been found to reduce the deficit) will increase taxes by 8% for all americans.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Every US taxpayer will be paying that extra 8%.

JohnMc1 · 29-12-2009 12:23PM

kev9100 wrote: »

I am sorry john but those links dont stack up. For one they analyse the bill that came out from the Senate Finance Committee in October. The Senate bill has changed drastically since October. Give us the links that show the current senate bill (which has been scored by the CBO and been found to reduce the deficit) will increase taxes by 8% for all americans.

You really think it changed that much? And LOL at this reducing the defecit? Been on boldprogressives again I see.

pagancornflake · 29-12-2009 10:01PM

Yeah kev, listen to JohnMc. Debase opposing arguments by typing LOL and asking pointless questions. Oh, and get your info from reliable sources, like Dick Morris

JohnMc1 wrote: »

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/10/19/how-much-obamacare-costs-the-average-family/

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/blog/diagnosis/whos-really-paying-for-obamacare

JohnMc1 · 29-12-2009 10:05PM

pagancornflake wrote: »

Yeah kev, listen to JohnMc. Debase opposing arguments by typing LOL and asking pointless questions. Oh, and get your info from reliable sources, like Dick Morris

If you really believe a Healthcare bill that will cost $1T or more is somehow magically going to be "Defecit Neutral" or "Defecit Reducing" then me just typing LOL is you getting off easy.

pagancornflake · 29-12-2009 10:11PM

I never said any such thing JohnMc, I was just helping you win the argument, why are you being angry

JohnMc1 · 29-12-2009 10:14PM

pagancornflake wrote: »

I never said any such thing JohnMc, I was just helping you win the argument, why are you being angry

I was pointing out that kev believes that this bill will somehow be "Defecit Neutral" or "Defecit Reducing" It is laughable.

pagancornflake · 29-12-2009 10:26PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I was pointing out that kev believes that this bill will somehow be "Defecit Neutral" or "Defecit Reducing" It is laughable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7d_e9lrcZ8

JohnMc1 · 29-12-2009 10:38PM

While I didn't agree about the 9-11 stuff I did agree with everything else he said. Honestly he should be President instead of Mr. Smoke and Mirrors [or Teleprompters in his case]

pagancornflake · 29-12-2009 10:47PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

While I didn't agree about the 9-11 stuff I did agree with everything else he said. Honestly he should be President instead of Mr. Smoke and Mirrors [or Teleprompters in his case]

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/11/14/painting-a-bull%E2%80%99s-eye-on-new-york-city/#more-670

kev9100 · 30-12-2009 04:19PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I was pointing out that kev believes that this bill will somehow be "Defecit Neutral" or "Defecit Reducing" It is laughable.

Come on John you can do better than that. This bill will reduce the deficit. You might not want to believe it, but its true. Just look up the CBO report.

JohnMc1 · 30-12-2009 04:22PM

kev9100 wrote: »

Come on John you can do better than that. This bill will reduce the deficit. You might not want to believe it, but its true. Just look up the CBO report.

The Dems playing a cooking the books scam isn't going to cut it. This is going to add to defecit one way or another. And you and every middle class and under American will be paying for all of this.

kev9100 · 30-12-2009 04:31PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The Dems playing a cooking the books scam isn't going to cut it. This is going to add to defecit one way or another. And you and every middle class and under American will be paying for all of this.

How can you possibly say the Dems are cooking the books? The CBO has to becompletely non-partisan or the whole legislative system would have even less credibility than before.

With regards to your earlier comments, yes the bill has changed dramatically since October. Olympia Snowe voted for the Baucus Bill and now she considers the current bill unconstitutional. That is what we call a bill that has changed.

Manic Moran · 30-12-2009 05:29PM

Could also be a Congresscritter that has changed. (That would be a shocker, wouldn't it?). Or, more likely, both.

NTM

Overheal · 30-12-2009 06:01PM

If the glove dont fit, youre full of sh!t.

Current Bill: 8%, Yes or No. October be damned. In October we had a Public Option, iirc.

kev9100 wrote: »

Come on John you can do better than that. This bill will reduce the deficit. You might not want to believe it, but its true. Just look up the CBO report.

I'll bite though: how will this reduce the deficit?

Anonymous1987 · 30-12-2009 09:45PM

Healthcare passed and still from all the news reports all I can get is that there is a tax on tanning and coverage will be extended by enforcing mandatory insurance, seems sort of a let down from a 2,000 + page document. In the grand scheme of things this is a tiny step forward and it doesn't do anything to deal with the spiralling cost of healthcare in the US. Personally I think Obama has only himself to blame by not reaching out to republicans.

Trouser_Press · 31-12-2009 01:45AM

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

Personally I think Obama has only himself to blame by not reaching out to republicans.

Thanks for that, the old ones are always the best!

kev9100 · 01-01-2010 03:56PM

Overheal wrote: »

I'll bite though: how will this reduce the deficit?

Well from what I can gather taxation will play a part in reducing the deficit in both bills. However it is not the 8% John keeps going on about. It will be targeted at people on higher incomes and more costly premiums. You can find the exact figures in my previous posts.Administrative costs and costly programs will have their spending reduced as well. Also with the mandate it will be mandotory for people to get insurance so people will no longer be forced to go to the emergency room for treatment which will also reduce costs. For a much more detailed analysis I would advise you to go to the CBO website which explains things much better than I can.

Does that answer your question?

Anonymous1987 · 06-01-2010 05:55PM

Trouser_Press wrote: »

Thanks for that, the old ones are always the best!

Well for a guy that promised bi-partisanship during the election campaign, I don't recall any attempt to do so at all. If Obama attempted to bring some republicans on side and then they through it back in his face then fair enough but I don't recall any such attempt. I suppose you support every single policy of the democratic party and oppose every policy of the republican party, at least that what you're response suggests.

bobbyjoe · 06-01-2010 10:54PM

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

Well for a guy that promised bi-partisanship during the election campaign, I don't recall any attempt to do so at all. If Obama attempted to bring some republicans on side and then they through it back in his face then fair enough but I don't recall any such attempt. I suppose you support every single policy of the democratic party and oppose every policy of the republican party, at least that what you're response suggests.

You serious?

Anonymous1987 · 07-01-2010 02:04PM

bobbyjoe wrote: »

You serious?

Let me backtrack on my previous comment, Obama most likely isn't just to blame its the whole Dems v Reps culture that makes anything difficult to pass any legislation but he is the leader of the country and has made healthcare the number one priority of his first year as president. Why don't you suggest to me why bi-parisan healthcare reform is or is not possbile?

Overheal · 07-01-2010 02:28PM

Why pass Healthcare under the banner of Economic Recovery though?

Whats the percentage of Americans seeking healthcare again? And how many are out of work now? Im not talking about little Billy Tanner who skinned his elbow and his mome paid $50 for a doctor visit (even though these statistics are tacked on to fluff the numbers) Im talking about greivously affected americans who are consumed with inescapable mountains of debt, through the fault of their caretakers and not their own stupidity?

The real crisis is so many people are out of an employer healthcare plan now. Why dont we get people back to work Then do Healthcare to Death in year 2?

edit: and how come nobody, senator or congressman, has tried to turn this into a Referendum despite repeated calls to do so from their constituents

"Well, that's a fascinating idea to have a referendum," Specter said. "Well, that's one of the ideas I'm going to take back to Washington, a referendum."

Congressional aides [in august] said they had not heard any discussion of a health care reform referendum during talks on Capitol Hill.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/11/sen-specter-says-hell-pitch-fascinating-option-health-care-referendum/

Anonymous1987 · 07-01-2010 02:48PM

Overheal wrote: »

Why pass Healthcare under the banner of Economic Recovery though?

Whats the percentage of Americans seeking healthcare again? And how many are out of work now?

Of course the majority of Americans are not seeking healthcare, they have adequate coverage but that doesn't mean it should not be a priority for those that don't. I agree that at this moment in time economic recovery is the number one priority of the american people while Obama is focused on healthcare however universal healthcare is closely liked to productivity and has been neglected for a long time. Unfortunately another major failure of the US healthcare system that has largely been bypassed is the sheer cost of it which is likely to have economic implications in the form of high taxes. I don't think healthcare is being bundled under economic recovery maybe you could explain further?

Anonymous1987 · 07-01-2010 02:55PM

Overheal wrote: »

The real crisis is so many people are out of an employer healthcare plan now. Why dont we get people back to work Then do Healthcare to Death in year 2?

edit: and how come nobody, senator or congressman, has tried to turn this into a Referendum despite repeated calls to do so from their constituents

"Well, that's a fascinating idea to have a referendum," Specter said. "Well, that's one of the ideas I'm going to take back to Washington, a referendum."

Congressional aides [in august] said they had not heard any discussion of a health care reform referendum during talks on Capitol Hill.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/11/sen-specter-says-hell-pitch-fascinating-option-health-care-referendum/

A referendum is not likely to get votes, why would I burden myself with a higher tax bill so some people in the lowest income percentile can afford healthcare? It doesn't mean its right it just the tyranny of the majority over the minority.

Overheal · 07-01-2010 05:28PM

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

A referendum is not likely to get votes,

Ha ha no. Theres a clear line of support for healthcare changes just as there is a clear line of Opposition. Thats what Im saying. The country is Split (surprise) and a referendum could go either way.

Have people go to a booth, vote on 20 or so propositions and then base the changes on what people vote for.

kev9100 · 07-01-2010 05:39PM

Overheal wrote: »

Ha ha no. Theres a clear line of support for healthcare changes just as there is a clear line of Opposition. Thats what Im saying. The country is Split (surprise) and a referendum could go either way.

Have people go to a booth, vote on 20 or so propositions and then base the changes on what people vote for.

Well, if you want to go down that road what is the point of having a legislature? Do you want to have a referendum on every piece of legislation or just the "important" ones?

Overheal · 07-01-2010 05:53PM

kev9100 wrote: »

Well, if you want to go down that road what is the point of having a legislature? Do you want to have a referendum on every piece of legislation or just the "important" ones?

kev9100 · 07-01-2010 06:12PM

eh.... why did you post Tommy Lee Jones glaring at me? Its kind of unnverving:eek:.

Anonymous1987 · 07-01-2010 07:28PM

Overheal wrote: »

Ha ha no. Theres a clear line of support for healthcare changes just as there is a clear line of Opposition. Thats what Im saying. The country is Split (surprise) and a referendum could go either way.

Have people go to a booth, vote on 20 or so propositions and then base the changes on what people vote for.

Why a referendum its not altering the constitution? Like Kev says its the job of the legislature. Besides would we really want to invite all that mis-information and propaganda from both sides anyway?

Overheal · 07-01-2010 07:49PM

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

Why a referendum its not altering the constitution? Like Kev says its the job of the legislature. Besides would we really want to invite all that mis-information and propaganda from both sides anyway?

Its giving people "An Inalienable Right" to Healthcare. Alongisde Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness.

http://www.forward.com/articles/122205/

“What this bill does is, we finally take that step from health care as a privilege, to health care as an inalienable right of every single American citizen,” said Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa).

If thats not Referendum Material, Im not sure what is.

Well, if you want to go down that road what is the point of having a legislature? Do you want to have a referendum on every piece of legislation or just the "important" ones?

I trust the Legislature when it regards Security and State. This involves My Heart and Lungs. I dont think they have a business running businesses either, but at least there, while theyve wasted countless billions and bankrupted dozens of goverco's, they have one or two of the carmakers by the balls and we may see the Electric Car yet. But back off my Tangent, they have no place forcing me to give them control of my health.

Anonymous1987 · 07-01-2010 08:27PM

Overheal wrote: »

Its giving people "An Inalienable Right" to Healthcare. Alongisde Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness

In practice, yes I guess that is what universal healthcare would mean but where is the constitutional amendment for universal education at primary and second level? Having said that though a referendum would give some legitimacy to any legislation passed and may not be the worst thing to do.

bobbyjoe · 07-01-2010 09:57PM

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

Let me backtrack on my previous comment, Obama most likely isn't just to blame its the whole Dems v Reps culture that makes anything difficult to pass any legislation but he is the leader of the country and has made healthcare the number one priority of his first year as president. Why don't you suggest to me why bi-parisan healthcare reform is or is not possbile?

Because the Republicans have no interest in healthcare reform. Their contributions to the debate were all attacks on Obama, "death panels", "Obama wants to kill your granny" etc. This was from senators and republican leaders!!
One of them even called Obama a liar during a speech in congress. (Joe Wilson)

Obama bent over backwards to accommodate them even having bipartisan hearings on health care reform and allowing them to make a load of amendments.

Health Care Bill Passed

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