All primary and secondary schools closed until Thursday [Edit - changed due to thaw!]

Trotter · 08-01-2010 05:22PM #1

Schools Closed

How strange it is for a minister to take responsibility like this.
For safety reasons, schools are closing until Thursday.

Cue the

- B****d Teachers
- Make them grit the roads!
- Dont pay them!
- SACK THEM ALL
- I had a cr*p teacher once, but I'm great now despite them
- I could do that job but I dont want to..
- Cancel ALL the other holidays this year!
- Cant we send the kids to their houses?

comments.

spurious · 08-01-2010 05:24PM

Thank God for Moodle.

implausible · 08-01-2010 05:32PM

Oh sweet jesus, I'm going to lose my mind! Been stuck inside since before xmas with the exception of a couple of excursions to the shop.

O'Keefe just doesn't want to pay out any insurance if a schoolbus crashes on our non-gritted roads:rolleyes:.

TheDriver · 08-01-2010 05:42PM

you should take a peek over on After Hours, the anti teacher movement is well in line!
My school in country was open yesterday and it was hairy getting there and very few kids in, today was enough kids to make one class up! I am glad we are closed next week as its a waste of the kids time coming in unless enough of them come in.
Presume days won't have to be made up if the Minister orders the closure?

Dionysus · 08-01-2010 05:42PM

Do "state schools" include private secondary schools (whose teachers are funded by the state)?

It is a good decision. A teacher in our school had a bad crash this morning on the way to school; he was OK but he did costly damage to his own car and the car he skidded into.

TheDriver · 08-01-2010 05:53PM

yes, state funded schools means those that have teachers paid by the state i.e. not grinds schools

Toto Wolfcastle · 08-01-2010 06:11PM

Trotter wrote: »

- Make them grit the roads!

The people in my parents' estate are gritting the roads as I speak. There were huge piles of sand all along the hill.

This decision is probably for the best. I say that because as strange as it may seem, there are principals out there who want to save face by opening, whether the roads are bad or not. And if someone was injured, or worse, then there would be an almighty uproar.

The likelihood is that my school would have been closed anyway on Monday.

Cat82 · 08-01-2010 06:32PM

deemark wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus, I'm going to lose my mind! Been stuck inside since before xmas with the exception of a couple of excursions to the shop.

O'Keefe just doesn't want to pay out any insurance if a schoolbus crashes on our non-gritted roads:rolleyes:.

I too have real cabin fever and was looking forward to getting back to school to see other people. However I think Batt O'Keefe was right. I doubt he is too worried about insurance, I'd say he's more worried that if a school bus crashes our pupils could be badly injured or worse. Its the right decision.

peewee18988 · 08-01-2010 07:04PM

Batt....we salute you!!

Pity we didn't know this yeaterday.....one would get a cheap week in the Canaries at this time of year!

We have 3rd and 6th years in for supervised study on Monday, teachers who can get in do an hour each.

We should be just back in school for the industrial action...hehe

SwearImNotPaul · 08-01-2010 09:16PM

I was just wondering I am totally broke, do we still get paid? I'm on a pro-rata contract so doubt I will. I'd prefer to be in school I'm bored!

gwjones42 · 08-01-2010 11:43PM

With ref to Cat82's post above,
I've been thinking the same thing lately (and during the snow last February too), but for a different reason. My principal is very determined when it comes to keeping the school open.........I feel uncomfortable with 50%+ (as has happened) of the children being marked out for a day or two because the school is stubbornly opening while their parents legitimately fear bringing them in. We're DEIS band 1 and have huge issues around attendance anyway. At the end of the year, those children who have missed 20+ days have to be reported to the welfare board, snow or no snow. There's also the children who don't miss days and are going for perfect attendance. Is it right to make them and their parents face a slippery obstacle course on their way to and from school?

Dionysus · 09-01-2010 01:38PM

gwjones42 wrote: »

We're DEIS band 1 and have huge issues around attendance anyway. At the end of the year, those children who have missed 20+ days have to be reported to the welfare board, snow or no snow.

Never knew that. Very interesting.

lauralee28 · 09-01-2010 01:49PM

gwjones42 wrote: »

With ref to Cat82's post above,
I've been thinking the same thing lately (and during the snow last February too), but for a different reason. My principal is very determined when it comes to keeping the school open.........I feel uncomfortable with 50%+ (as has happened) of the children being marked out for a day or two because the school is stubbornly opening while their parents legitimately fear bringing them in. We're DEIS band 1 and have huge issues around attendance anyway. At the end of the year, those children who have missed 20+ days have to be reported to the welfare board, snow or no snow. There's also the children who don't miss days and are going for perfect attendance. Is it right to make them and their parents face a slippery obstacle course on their way to and from school?

Surely the students going for perfect attendance are not going to have compulsary closures held against their attendance record! Its neither the school nor the students fault. As for the welfare board, a medical cert or a compulsary closure will not be counted as their 20 days! Students aren't considered "absent" during holidays, its the same for compulsary closure.

clartharlear · 09-01-2010 02:08PM

lauralee28 wrote: »

Surely the students going for perfect attendance are not going to have compulsary closures held against their attendance record! Its neither the school nor the students fault. As for the welfare board, a medical cert or a compulsary closure will not be counted as their 20 days! Students aren't considered "absent" during holidays, its the same for compulsary closure.

gw is talking about how when the school IS kept open despite adverse weather, it negatively affects students.

In my opinion · 09-01-2010 02:19PM

lauralee28 wrote: »

Surely the students going for perfect attendance are not going to have compulsary closures held against their attendance record! Its neither the school nor the students fault. As for the welfare board, a medical cert or a compulsary closure will not be counted as their 20 days! Students aren't considered "absent" during holidays, its the same for compulsary closure.

Of course a cert is included in the return

Toto Wolfcastle · 09-01-2010 05:47PM

What will happen regarding making the days up? Will this be done? And if so, when will it be done?

mazken · 09-01-2010 08:32PM

janeybabe wrote: »

What will happen regarding making the days up? Will this be done? And if so, when will it be done?

From today's Irish Independent " Education Minister Batt O'Keeffe insists they will have to make up for lost time ... likely to look for the days to be made up at the February mid-term break -or by extending the school year which would be problematic at second-level because of the June State exams"
Have already booked flights for mid-term break, booked since November....will be sooooo cross if i've to cancel :mad: Do you think it's likely we'll have to make up the days?? It's totally out of the school's control! Surely the unions will step in if it comes to this...or am I just being optimisitc???

dolliemix · 09-01-2010 08:35PM

deemark wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus, I'm going to lose my mind! Been stuck inside since before xmas with the exception of a couple of excursions to the shop.

O'Keefe just doesn't want to pay out any insurance if a schoolbus crashes on our non-gritted roads:rolleyes:.

And thats fair enough!

I asked one of my students who had been absent over 20 days after the department were notified. She said 'nothing'!

Rosita · 09-01-2010 09:07PM

That piece from the Independent is interesting in that it doesn't actually quote the Minister which is odd considering that a verb as strong as "insists" is used and is also used in the sub-header. It is strange from a journalistic perspective not to bolster arguably the key point in the article. Presumably if such a quote existed it would have been provided.

If time has to be made up mid-term is the obvious period to make it up, but that would still fall short too as I cannot see the schools being open before Monday week, and the fact that the authorities are reviewing the situation as early as Tuesday suggests they expect that too - this assumes the forecast holds true of course.

There might also be practical problems as schools will have organised trips away (certainly my school has) at mid-term so that might discommode a lot of people too.

Trotter · 09-01-2010 10:04PM

We're only taking 2 days in Febuary anyway!

lauralee28 · 09-01-2010 10:18PM

Trotter wrote: »

We're only taking 2 days in Febuary anyway!

Second level take a week.

dolliemix · 09-01-2010 11:04PM

I agree with you Rosita about that Independent article. I checked the Times and the RTE website and they don't mention anything about time being made up.. I'm traveling to New York that week. Flights and hotel already paid, so would I be entitled to take personal days if they did insist we make them up in Feb? I'll lose out financially otherwise, which doesn't seem fair, as I would never have agreed to go at that time if I thought I was teaching obviously.

Apart from me personally (:D) there would be a lot of schools, like Rosita's doing school trips. How would they cover the teachers going on the trips? What about the Leaving Certs who have booked and payed deposits on crash courses to help them for their orals? And boarding schools?

No doubt about it, as soon as this weather is over, O'Keefe is going to be under huge pressure from the public to make sure we don' t get paid for not going into school this week. I wonder how it all pans out legally?

Jerry A · 09-01-2010 11:31PM

dolliemix wrote: »

I agree with you Rosita about that Independent article. I checked the Times and the RTE website and they don't mention anything about time being made up.. I'm traveling to New York that week. Flights and hotel already paid, so would I be entitled to take personal days if they did insist we make them up in Feb? I'll lose out financially otherwise, which doesn't seem fair, as I would never have agreed to go at that time if I thought I was teaching obviously.

Apart from me personally (:D) there would be a lot of schools, like Rosita's doing school trips. How would they cover the teachers going on the trips? What about the Leaving Certs who have booked and payed deposits on crash courses to help them for their orals? And boarding schools?

No doubt about it, as soon as this weather is over, O'Keefe is going to be under huge pressure from the public to make sure we don' t get paid for not going into school this week. I wonder how it all pans out legally?

Why would he be under pressure from the public? Most of the public would agree with it for safety reasons, unless the public are associating this with the negative spin about teachers and PS workers that has been going on for ages. It has not been done to give teachers a holiday. Teachers are available for work but have been instructed to stay at home, they are entitled to be paid. Its another story re making up the days- they may have to do that, which is fair enough.

Trotter · 09-01-2010 11:37PM

Jerry A wrote: »

unless the public are associating this with the negative spin about teachers and PS workers that has been going on for ages.

I've been called a lazy ba$***d for not going to work on Monday.
I've heard radio shows broadcasting texts that we shouldnt be paid for these days, that we have a cheek.

The campaign to destroy the profession of teaching continues, mainly because each of the mouthpieces in question had a weapon of a teacher that criticised them.

Don't underestimate the lengths the Irish media will go to destroy the profession and how much of that the public are driving/believing.

/mini rant

spurious · 09-01-2010 11:44PM

I'm a teacher. I have years of experience dealing with people in strops.
I am working this week, just not in front of the kids.
I am doing a course at my own expense during the February mid-term.

I have absolutely no intention of 'making up' days I am already available to work on.

'They' lost my goodwill a good few times over this past year.

Jerry A · 10-01-2010 12:04AM

Trotter wrote: »

I've been called a lazy ba$***d for not going to work on Monday.
I've heard radio shows broadcasting texts that we shouldnt be paid for these days, that we have a cheek.

The campaign to destroy the profession of teaching continues, mainly because each of the mouthpieces in question had a weapon of a teacher that criticised them.

Don't underestimate the lengths the Irish media will go to destroy the profession and how much of that the public are driving/believing.

/mini rant

I agree with you. People have turned against the teaching profession. A lot is based as you said on their biased personal experience and the media. Edward Bernays, the father of spin, described the public as a 'herd that needed to be led.' The public will believe almost anything!

TheDriver · 10-01-2010 05:26PM

if you have things booked for the holidays you were informed about, then it would be very difficult for you to be made work those days as thats the point of the standardised school year. Also lots of kids will be missing those days because they want to.
I am sick of being called everything under the sun about these few days so no goodwill here

Delphi91 · 10-01-2010 05:49PM

lauralee28 wrote: »

Surely the students going for perfect attendance are not going to have compulsary closures held against their attendance record! Its neither the school nor the students fault. As for the welfare board, a medical cert or a compulsary closure will not be counted as their 20 days! Students aren't considered "absent" during holidays, its the same for compulsary closure.

You would not report students as absent on a day when the school has been closed by Ministerial Order.

However, production of certs does not eliminate a student from being reported. The student is admitting absence due to illness which is one of the absence categories. Having said this, a school would use a little bit of common sense, where for example if a student was out for 21 days due to, say recovering from a hospital procedure and another student was out for 21 days with no explanation at all, I know which one I'd be reporting.

Toto Wolfcastle · 10-01-2010 06:15PM

Judging by the amount of cars abandoned at the bottom of the hill I live on and judging by the amount of snow that has fallen I wouldn't have been able to go to work in the morning anyway. I'm hoping that on Tuesday they'll be able to make the decision to re-open.

peanuthead · 10-01-2010 06:35PM

janeybabe wrote: »

Judging by the amount of cars abandoned at the bottom of the hill I live on and judging by the amount of snow that has fallen I wouldn't have been able to go to work in the morning anyway. I'm hoping that on Tuesday they'll be able to make the decision to re-open.

Do you think there's a chance they may re-open before Thursday?

I was thinking more like it could be later than Thursday.

I'm actually dying to get back - I'm a PGDE student and have a block teaching week and 2 supervisions to get out of the way so I'm hoping it will be Thursday!!

Toto Wolfcastle · 10-01-2010 06:41PM

I hope so. The forecasts are for milder weather from Wednesday on so I'd imagine a lot of places will be good to go.

I just want to get back into the swing of things. The kids will be hyper when we get back. The teachers will probably be too. There are mocks coming up soon and then orals. I hate sitting at home waiting.

peanuthead · 10-01-2010 06:45PM

janeybabe wrote: »

I hope so. The forecasts are for milder weather from Wednesday on so I'd imagine a lot of places will be good to go.

I just want to get back into the swing of things. The kids will be hyper when we get back. The teachers will probably be too. There are mocks coming up soon and then orals. I hate sitting at home waiting.

Yeah you're right. The kids will be mad!! Hopefully we won't have to work through the Feb mid-term either. I have a short course booked for that week!

Thank God I didn't have the cash to book Prague instead!! haha!!

Toto Wolfcastle · 10-01-2010 06:48PM

peanuthead wrote: »

Yeah you're right. The kids will be mad!! Hopefully we won't have to work through the Feb mid-term either. I have a short course booked for that week!

Thank God I didn't have the cash to book Prague instead!! haha!!

I'm visiting friends in Bahrain. It's booked and paid for. I will be on the plane the Saturday of the holidays. There are other people who are going away, and people like you who are doing courses. Are they going to refund all the money for all that so we can work? I didn't cause the snow. I'd be quite happy to work if I could.

Bally8 · 10-01-2010 07:17PM

I work in Youthreach and still dont know if I have to stay at home tomorrow. We are waiting for our VEC CEO to decide. As we dont have mid-terms and our summer holidays are in August I dont know when we can make days up if we have to. Im presuming that we are not included in the schools the minister is talking about but dont know for sure. Its crazy.

dolliemix · 10-01-2010 07:18PM

We may be going back earlier than Thurs I reckon!

I better get my exams corrected!

peanuthead · 10-01-2010 07:24PM

dolliemix wrote: »

We may be going back earlier than Thurs I reckon!

I better get my exams corrected!

Well you know I haven't been told from my school that we're closed tomorrow. I'm just assuming that we are. Are others just going by what O'Keefe said or have you all also heard from your schools

ytareh · 10-01-2010 07:28PM

This has the makings of a complete and utter fiasco...Every chance the way the rain is coming down there will be no snow by morning (but probably still icy...)Kids will be milking this till at least Thursday even if an official 'recall' is issued ...is that likely /possible?!

dolliemix · 10-01-2010 07:31PM

peanuthead wrote: »

Well you know I haven't been told from my school that we're closed tomorrow. I'm just assuming that we are. Are others just going by what O'Keefe said or have you all also heard from your schools

We have a text chain set up in our school for extra-ordinary incidents. So I was informed officially through text.

Now that you say it - i wonder did they let the H-Dips know.

Toto Wolfcastle · 10-01-2010 07:33PM

peanuthead wrote: »

Well you know I haven't been told from my school that we're closed tomorrow. I'm just assuming that we are. Are others just going by what O'Keefe said or have you all also heard from your schools

I got a text from my principal shortly after O' Keefe announced it.

ytareh wrote: »

This has the makings of a complete and utter fiasco...Every chance the way the rain is coming down there will be no snow by morning (but probably still icy...)Kids will be milking this till at least Thursday even if an official 'recall' is issued ...is that likely /possible?!

They would have to go back to the principals deciding whether it is ok or not. Some places are thawing, others, like where I live, have snow falling still. The problem with closing all schools is that there are always going to be places where the roads and weather are fine.

dolliemix · 10-01-2010 07:34PM

ytareh wrote: »

This has the makings of a complete and utter fiasco...Every chance the way the rain is coming down there will be no snow by morning (but probably still icy...)Kids will be milking this till at least Thursday even if an official 'recall' is issued ...is that likely /possible?!

I doubt it - if we get called back it'll be business as usual. The parents are dying to get the kids out of their hair at the moment I'd say. So they'll all be in

alexlyons · 10-01-2010 07:39PM

due to the closure being called by the minister, the schools do not legally have to make up the days. The minister may well suggest that they do and also suggest times that they have available to do this (technically, not taking into account peoples personal situations) but it does not mean schools must make up the lost time.

The minimum school days is set by the minister, and if he chooses to close the schools, he knows the minimum days may not be met. I do have firm basis on why this is correct btw.

peanuthead · 10-01-2010 07:55PM

Well we have a chain email system too, and I got a text on Wed about thurs and on thurs about friday. Nothing about Monday yet, but I don't see how I would get a text before Monday morning as our system is set up on the school computer

dolliemix · 10-01-2010 07:57PM

peanuthead wrote: »

Well we have a chain email system too, and I got a text on Wed about thurs and on thurs about friday. Nothing about Monday yet, but I don't see how I would get a text before Monday morning as our system is set up on the school computer

There's no school tomorrow.

Just keep an eye on the news for the rest of the week.

If I hear otherwise I'll post here.

Toto Wolfcastle · 10-01-2010 07:59PM

alexlyons wrote: »

due to the closure being called by the minister, the schools do not legally have to make up the days. The minister may well suggest that they do and also suggest times that they have available to do this (technically, not taking into account peoples personal situations) but it does not mean schools must make up the lost time.

The minimum school days is set by the minister, and if he chooses to close the schools, he knows the minimum days may not be met. I do have firm basis on why this is correct btw.

There is different information coming from people in other forums. Some people are saying that the days will be made up.

Does anyone have a definitive answer regarding whether they have to be made up or not?

peanuthead · 10-01-2010 08:01PM

janeybabe wrote: »

There is different information coming from people in other forums. Some people are saying that the days will be made up.

Does anyone have a definitive answer regarding whether they have to be made up or not?

I don't have a definitive answer but in keeping with how things are normally run here in Ireland I would say that no they don't.

Trotter · 10-01-2010 08:06PM

I don't think there'll be any concrete information until Tuesday. There's loads of unfounded rumours going around that can't have come from an authority of any kind because the meetings haven't even happened. As usual, I suspect the making up of days lost will come down to boards of management to decide on. We won't know anything until there's a press release from the man himself. Until then, I won't be listening to any rumours either way.

spurious · 10-01-2010 08:27PM

janeybabe wrote: »

There is different information coming from people in other forums. Some people are saying that the days will be made up.

Does anyone have a definitive answer regarding whether they have to be made up or not?

No, but I can certainly tell you what my answer would be.
I did not ask for this time off, I was not involved in any decision to do with it.
Good as I am, I do not control the weather.
I have been working during these 'days off'.

Toto Wolfcastle · 10-01-2010 08:30PM

spurious wrote: »

No, but I can certainly tell you what my answer would be.
I did not ask for this time off, I was not involved in any decision to do with it.
Good as I am, I do not control the weather.
I have been working during these 'days off'.

I completely agree. I was in work on Thursday and Friday as the weather and roads were ok here but I will be working tomorrow from home. I have loads to do. And I have been planning this trip, only my 2nd holiday in over 5 years, for months and am not planning on cancelling it.

implausible · 10-01-2010 10:36PM

In fairness guys, like it or lump it, Batt O'Keefe is our boss. What he says supercedes anything our principals say, so why would individual schools need to inform every member of staff of what has already been made known in the media?

As for making up days, I cannot see how this would work, it's impracticable. We agreed to the school year being standardised and this is done years in advance, so to suddenly tell us 'oh by the way, ye won't get your February midterm' would be ridiculous and nowhere near enough notice.

The DES have inadvertently shot themselves in the foot with this one. I think this weather would come under the category of 'extraordinary and exceptional circumstances'.

nozama · 10-01-2010 10:56PM

Usually if schools miss a day, they have to make a 'satisfactory effort' to make them up. So i guess it's mainly up to schools? Yeh we tried hard but we couldn't make it up!

Lord TSC · 11-01-2010 11:53AM

Peanuthead, you doing the Dip in Maynooth as well? Saw you talking about block. What do you think of the decision to make up the time during our assessment week?

Also, I didn't hear anything from the school about today through till Thursday, but presume we're closed till the government says otherwise. Meanwhile...

Call for O'Keeffe to re-open schools
Monday, 11 January 2010 11:00

Fine Gael has called on the Minister for Education to rescind his decision to close primary and second-level schools until Thursday.

Fine Gael Spokesman on Education Brian Hayes said while many schools are still unable to reopen it is clear this morning that in many parts of the country they can and should open from tomorrow morning.

Mr Hayes said Minister Batt O'Keeffe's decision on Friday was based on weather forecasts and he should now re-visit that decision based on the latest conditions.
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Mr Hayes said the Minister's blanket-ban decision had given certainty to school, but the worst of the weather seemed to have passed.

Chambers Ireland urged the Department of Education and Science to review the decision.

Deputy Chief Executive Seán Murphy said 'while there may be a case to be made for shutting those schools whose heating systems or water supplies are not working, a blanket shut down does little to help struggling businesses and working parents trying to source additional expensive childcare at this time.'

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0111/educationweather.html

All primary and secondary schools closed until Thursday [Edit - changed due to thaw!]

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