Whats the maximum mortgage you can get nowdays?

fret_wimp · 03-01-2010 12:02AM #1

In the boom times 100% mortgages were commonplace, but im wondering what is the standard nowdays? is it 90%, or as nasty as 80% of the property price?

I know it varies from bank to bank, but im just looking for a kind of average.

tenchi-fan · 03-01-2010 12:15AM

I went with Ptsb and their max is 90%. I think AIB/BOI are still 92%.

Eglinton · 03-01-2010 01:37AM

It very much depends on the bank/society. I have recently been offered up to 95% by both BoI and EBS but that's because I'm a long standing good customer. As said, both AIB and BoI are offering up to 92% for those with good savings and history. Other establishments seem to be a bit lower. I've heard that nowhere is offering more than 75% for investors or 2nd homes.

My personal opinion is that if you can't save 10% of the cost yourself then you have no business thinking about buying the place. This country's population needs to get back to the good practice of saving before making purchases be it for a house or flat screen tv.

fret_wimp · 03-01-2010 09:31PM

Eglinton wrote: »

My personal opinion is that if you can't save 10% of the cost yourself then you have no business thinking about buying the place. This country's population needs to get back to the good practice of saving before making purchases be it for a house or flat screen tv.

I see your point, but there's also the point that property is so expensive in this country, that for something decent, its 350k ( in Dublin anyway), so that means you have to save 35k. most younger folks ( based on my friends and I at least, all late 20's) who left 3rd level education and got jobs in our early 20's, you dont have a hope of saving 35k before the age of 35.

In the good times, you would boost your income by moving jobs as your experience grows, but in an employers market, its better to stay in a lowish paying job thats permanent, than moving to a higher paid job where you have to go through probation again, and will not get redundancy if they decide they dont want you.

So, saying that you should be able to save 10% is all good and well, but thats dependent on prices being realistic.

fletch · 03-01-2010 10:10PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

...so that means you have to save 35k. most younger folks ( based on my friends and I at least, all late 20's) who left 3rd level education and got jobs in our early 20's, you dont have a hope of saving 35k before the age of 35.

Don't have a hope

...to save €35,000 in ten years, you would only need to be putting away approx €291 a month away. If you double that you could have the deposit in 5 years.

Agent J · 03-01-2010 10:29PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

So, saying that you should be able to save 10% is all good and well, but thats dependent on prices being realistic.

And that is the nail on head as what the problem over the last 10/15 years in Ireland has been.

I'm almost convinced there should be a law in place to prevent any mortgages over 90% given for principle primary residences.

If a person cannot prove they are disciplined to save 10% of whatever house they wish to purchase then they should not be given a mortgage. This used to be the general thinking in mortgages pre celtic tiger. It also counters the length of the mortaged needed (35 years? wtf?) and tries to keep some sort of sanity on the prices.

From 100% mortgages, credit union loans, personal loans, intergenerational equity release schemes.People and insitutions have tried to circumvent this rather basic common sense because they had to get into property immediately.

Prices were high so people need bigger deposits to pay for them. People paying those higher prices pushed up those prices even further needing more a deposit to bridge.

Now prices are falling back to earth deposits will fall as well. I just hope NAMA doesnt stick a floor on them.

Diarmuid · 03-01-2010 10:35PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

So, saying that you should be able to save 10% is all good and well, but thats dependent on prices being realistic.

If you can't afford the 10% deposit, you can't afford the house.

AARRRGH · 03-01-2010 10:45PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

most younger folks ( based on my friends and I at least, all late 20's) who left 3rd level education and got jobs in our early 20's, you dont have a hope of saving 35k before the age of 35.

I have to disagree with this as well.

Anyone with an any way decent job should be able to save 35k in 3 or 4 years. That's only about 500 800 a month which should be doable if you're only renting.

I save between 1500 - 2000 a month and I don't have a huge income.

Agent J · 03-01-2010 10:54PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

I have to disagree with this as well.

Anyone with an any way decent job should be able to save 35k in 3 or 4 years. That's only about 500 a month which should be doable if you're only renting.

I save between 1500 - 2000 a month and I don't have a huge income.

Damn. Maybe we should pressgang you into the dept of finance.....

fret_wimp · 03-01-2010 10:55PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

I have to disagree with this as well.

Anyone with an any way decent job should be able to save 35k in 3 or 4 years. That's only about 500 a month which should be doable if you're only renting.

its actally just a shade under 6 years at 500 euro a month.

(35000/500)/12 = 5.83 years

AARRRGH wrote: »

I save between 1500 - 2000 a month and I don't have a huge income.

you save 2000 a month!!! Thats more than I earn in a month! my! so i have less than you save, before rent, bills, shopping and other essentials come out of it.
I think you have a different perspective from me on this matter!

mrsdewinter · 03-01-2010 11:08PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

I have to disagree with this as well.

Anyone with an any way decent job should be able to save 35k in 3 or 4 years. That's only about 500 a month which should be doable if you're only renting.

I save between 1500 - 2000 a month and I don't have a huge income.

I'm impressed. What's the secret? By the time I've paid out for the the mortgage, car loan, petrol, mobile bill, household bills, there's not a lot left. How do you manage entertainment, clothing, and the inevitable extras - say, the car insurance, health insurance, etc - that come everybody's way?

johndaman66 · 03-01-2010 11:12PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

most younger folks ( based on my friends and I at least, all late 20's) who left 3rd level education and got jobs in our early 20's, you dont have a hope of saving 35k before the age of 35.

Like fletch and AAGGGRH I'd have to disagree with this statement also. Assuming you are in full time employment since at least 25 years of age (picking what I might consider an average and realistic figure out of the sky) and you have not put anything near 35k together by 35 then I would consider it quite bad...This is assuming also you are putting away money all along with a view to buying a house.

fletch · 03-01-2010 11:13PM

I take it he must live at home with Mammy?

johndaman66 · 03-01-2010 11:19PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

its actally just a shade under 6 years at 500 euro a month.

(35000/500)/12 = 5.83 years

Of course if you had your savings wisely invested you would be earning interest in it all the while so you could knock some months of your calculation in this regard fret_wimp.

ntlbell · 03-01-2010 11:19PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

I see your point, but there's also the point that property is so expensive in this country, that for something decent, its 350k ( in Dublin anyway), so that means you have to save 35k. most younger folks ( based on my friends and I at least, all late 20's) who left 3rd level education and got jobs in our early 20's, you dont have a hope of saving 35k before the age of 35.

Then.

You buy somewhere for less, there's plenty of good areas for far less than 350k

You rent and save till you can afford it.

Saving 35k for a couple on avg ind wage isn't hard.

what's hard is sacraficing luxry's for that lenght of time, that's what's hard and what people don't want to do.

fret_wimp wrote: »

In the good times, you would boost your income by moving jobs as your experience grows, but in an employers market, its better to stay in a lowish paying job thats permanent, than moving to a higher paid job where you have to go through probation again, and will not get redundancy if they decide they dont want you.

There was no good times, there just a load of debt and paper profit, the good times is what drove the prices to the prices you're now complaining about, make up your mind.

fret_wimp wrote: »

So, saying that you should be able to save 10% is all good and well, but thats dependent on prices being realistic.

rent.

ntlbell · 03-01-2010 11:22PM

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I'm impressed. What's the secret? By the time I've paid out for the the mortgage, car loan, petrol, mobile bill, household bills, there's not a lot left. How do you manage entertainment, clothing, and the inevitable extras - say, the car insurance, health insurance, etc - that come everybody's way?

The secret, don't tell anyone now, they'll all be at it.

Not buying an overpiced home.

Don't buy a car unless you can pay for it with cash.

Rent.

Etc etc etc.

shhhhhhhh

johndaman66 · 03-01-2010 11:50PM

mrsdewinter wrote: »

What's the secret?

I don't think theres any real secret about it apart from applying some common sense and a wee bit of budgeting. Admitately many people are not in a position to save due to personal/ family circumstances but many others are and seem to wrecklessly squander money all the same. Not good enough to have a regular run of the mill car, has to be a Bmw 530, or the top model Mini. Package holiday once a year not good enough, needs to be 3 or 4 half way around the world exotic trips. Just accepting your car or health insurance renewal quotation without ringing around for a better quote or not shopping round for better value be it in clothes, groceries, jewellery, electriacal appliances, petrol/ fuel etc. Drinking every second night of the week. I'm just talking about much of my peer group and work colleagues who would be on the average industrial wage if that for Christ sake. If you live the high life on a constant basis you will have to pay the price that goes with it. I don't see any reason in the world why most people in a half decent job cannot live an enjoyable life and put away a few quid at the same time.

AARRRGH · 03-01-2010 11:57PM

fret_wimp wrote: »

its actally just a shade under 6 years at 500 euro a month.

(35000/500)/12 = 5.83 years

Oops, sorry, fixed that.

fret_wimp wrote: »

you save 2000 a month!!! Thats more than I earn in a month! my! so i have less than you save, before rent, bills, shopping and other essentials come out of it.
I think you have a different perspective from me on this matter!

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I'm impressed. What's the secret? By the time I've paid out for the the mortgage, car loan, petrol, mobile bill, household bills, there's not a lot left. How do you manage entertainment, clothing, and the inevitable extras - say, the car insurance, health insurance, etc - that come everybody's way?

Haha there's no secret! But here's a couple of things I do:

I very rarely drink in pubs, and go through phases of not drinking at all.
I don't smoke.
I don't have a car.
I walk to work.
I don't buy coffees/muffins/etc. every day.
I don't eat a lot of junk food, although I go through phases on this.

I transfer my savings into my account as soon as I'm paid, and I have to live on the rest. So let's say I'm left with €400 after paying all my bills, etc. That's about €13 per day. So I know I only have €13 per day to live on. I then spend my money accordingly.

I became very good at doing this because for about 8 years I had horrible debt (combination of many things, including my own stupidity), so I now view money as something quite precious. I hate credit.

Diarmuid · 04-01-2010 07:24AM

fletch wrote: »

I take it he must live at home with Mammy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renting and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving. The bubble is over, time to get reacquainted with these concepts

The_Conductor · 04-01-2010 10:42AM

No need to be sarcastic people.
Certainly- there is an entire generation out there, who need to become aquainted with the concept of saving for something they need or want- and not borrowing for it.

When I bought my townhouse- I paid 15% of the principal from savings, it involved working 2 fulltime jobs for 3 years, but I did it. Its not impossible, or even improbable- it takes determination and sacrifice to save and not squander your earnings. This is a concept that people have to relearn (or learn if they've never practised it).

S.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 04-01-2010 10:58AM

fletch wrote: »

Don't have a hope ...to save €35,000 in ten years, you would only need to be putting away approx €291 a month away. If you double that you could have the deposit in 5 years.

Some people can't even save that much. It is difficult for some to do.

AARRRGH wrote: »

I have to disagree with this as well.

Anyone with an any way decent job should be able to save 35k in 3 or 4 years. That's only about 500 800 a month which should be doable if you're only renting.

I save between 1500 - 2000 a month and I don't have a huge income.

This is bullshít. If you can save 2K a month, then you are on a huge income, regardless of what you say...

ntlbell wrote: »

Then.

You buy somewhere for less, there's plenty of good areas for far less than 350k

You rent and save till you can afford it.

Saving 35k for a couple on avg ind wage isn't hard.

For a couple, it wouldn't be, but the average industrial wage has come down a considerable amount in the past 18 months, while rent has not come down that much at all. Reports indicate that the average rent is just over 700 a month in dublin. This is a load of crap. They take into account all the uninhabitable accomodation. It is extremely difficult for a couple to find a 2 bed apartment for less than 1K that is somewhat decent. Quite easy if you are single and willing to share with other people. That's the only place I can see you saving, and even still, some greedy landlords are still looking for 500 + for a single room...

As for purchasing a house for less, that is very doable. There are plenty of houses on the market, 2 and 3 bedrooms for 130K 140K, you will have to commute, but that's the price you pay.

There was no good times, there just a load of debt and paper profit, the good times is what drove the prices to the prices you're now complaining about, make up your mind.

CT forum is that way

>

rent.

This is supposed to be a joke?

ntlbell wrote: »

The secret, don't tell anyone now, they'll all be at it.

Not buying an overpiced home.

Don't buy a car unless you can pay for it with cash.

Rent.

Etc etc etc.

shhhhhhhh

ntlbell · 04-01-2010 11:06AM

Andres Dead Forefinger wrote: »

For a couple, it wouldn't be, but the average industrial wage has come down a considerable amount in the past 18 months, while rent has not come down that much at all. Reports indicate that the average rent is just over 700 a month in dublin. This is a load of crap. They take into account all the uninhabitable accomodation. It is extremely difficult for a couple to find a 2 bed apartment for less than 1K that is somewhat decent. Quite easy if you are single and willing to share with other people. That's the only place I can see you saving, and even still, some greedy landlords are still looking for 500 + for a single room...

why would a couple need a 2 bed apartment?

You can get a perfectly fine 1 bed apartment in a nice enough area for 700e.

Andres Dead Forefinger wrote: »

As for purchasing a house for less, that is very doable. There are plenty of houses on the market, 2 and 3 bedrooms for 130K 140K, you will have to commute, but that's the price you pay.

There's houses close to dublin city for a hell of a lot less than 350k. no commute needed

Andres Dead Forefinger wrote: »

This is supposed to be a joke?

Renting when you can't afford to buy a joke? sure.

Diarmuid · 04-01-2010 11:16AM

Andres Dead Forefinger wrote: »

while rent has not come down that much at all.

Wrong.

AARRRGH · 04-01-2010 01:10PM

Andres Dead Forefinger wrote: »

This is bullshít. If you can save 2K a month, then you are on a huge income, regardless of what you say...

It's not bull****. I am not on a huge income. I'm just good with money.

MiniLover · 04-02-2010 04:38PM

Myself and my partner have just got planning permission. When we first applied for permission we also engaged with the banks and had submitted all the information required for the mortgage application and it was looking hopeful, but that was last August! We had a good bit of difficulty with the planners so therefore put the Mort application on hold until we knew we had planning for definite. I called the bank this week to let them know we have permission but they said that they needed our information again as a lot of time has passed. We now have to re-submit a salary certificate, fill out a new application form and show evidence of saving. We dont have any savings, but we do own the land we are building on, which was valued at 50k. Previously, the bank seemed happy with the land and the fact that we were building for alot less than the eventual worth as security enough! Combined we earn in excess of 90,000k, we are only looking for 275,000 and we both have good credit history, in fact, my partner has never had a loan! I am getting bad vibes but that could just be a bit of panicking! Are we likely to have trouble with a lender? (we are dealing with AIB now)

ntlbell · 04-02-2010 04:45PM

MiniLover wrote: »

Myself and my partner have just got planning permission. When we first applied for permission we also engaged with the banks and had submitted all the information required for the mortgage application and it was looking hopeful, but that was last August! We had a good bit of difficulty with the planners so therefore put the Mort application on hold until we knew we had planning for definite. I called the bank this week to let them know we have permission but they said that they needed our information again as a lot of time has passed. We now have to re-submit a salary certificate, fill out a new application form and show evidence of saving. We dont have any savings, but we do own the land we are building on, which was valued at 50k. Previously, the bank seemed happy with the land and the fact that we were building for alot less than the eventual worth as security enough! Combined we earn in excess of 90,000k, we are only looking for 275,000 and we both have good credit history, in fact, my partner has never had a loan! I am getting bad vibes but that could just be a bit of panicking! Are we likely to have trouble with a lender? (we are dealing with AIB now)

no can you give you an answer.

Wait and see what the banks says

D3PO · 04-02-2010 05:32PM

fletch wrote: »

Don't have a hope ...to save €35,000 in ten years, you would only need to be putting away approx €291 a month away. If you double that you could have the deposit in 5 years.

Spot on fletch. its because too many people here thing they deserve everything, the new car, the 2-3 holidays a year, go out every weekend, for dinner, concerts etc.

If you want to buy a house then you have to make an effort of saving for it. Home ownership isnt an entitlement

D3PO · 04-02-2010 05:33PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

I have to disagree with this as well.

Anyone with an any way decent job should be able to save 35k in 3 or 4 years. That's only about 500 800 a month which should be doable if you're only renting.

I save between 1500 - 2000 a month and I don't have a huge income.

if somebody cant save 800 a month after their rent then they cant afford a mortgage anyway.

D3PO · 04-02-2010 05:36PM

Andres Dead Forefinger wrote: »

Some people can't even save that much. It is difficult for some to do.

if somebody couldnt save that ontop of rent then why in the hell would they be looking to get a mortgage ?? How out of touch with reality do people have to get in terms of understanding what saffordable to them

fontanalis · 04-02-2010 07:02PM

fletch wrote: »

I take it he must live at home with Mammy?

I know he's kicking himself he's kicking himslef he's not living in an overpriced shoebox that will be a slum in the future.

am i bovvered · 04-02-2010 11:24PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Oops, sorry, fixed that.

Haha there's no secret! But here's a couple of things I do:

I very rarely drink in pubs, and go through phases of not drinking at all.
I don't smoke.
I don't have a car.
I walk to work.
I don't buy coffees/muffins/etc. every day.
I don't eat a lot of junk food, although I go through phases on this.

I transfer my savings into my account as soon as I'm paid, and I have to live on the rest. So let's say I'm left with €400 after paying all my bills, etc. That's about €13 per day. So I know I only have €13 per day to live on. I then spend my money accordingly.

I became very good at doing this because for about 8 years I had horrible debt (combination of many things, including my own stupidity), so I now view money as something quite precious. I hate credit.

Sorry but the biggest factor is the decision not to have a wife and children....I remember when I used to save 2k a month and a good job I did because once your family start to grow, life is expensive.

stepbar · 04-02-2010 11:40PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

It's not bull****. I am not on a huge income. I'm just good with money.

You save probably 75% - 100% of my net wage. So stop saying you not on better than average money. Unless you don't pay rent or something, It's very hard to get away with living on less than 500 eur (on average) a month (inc expenses). So lets say it takes 1k to sustain you, added on to savings of 1.5 - 2k and you got a fairly decent wage.

TBH, and I'm going to get slaughtered for this, there should be 100% mortgages under a certain price level (perhaps <150k maybe lower) and subject to stricter criteria e.g minimum wage level / higher minimum NDI. But of course you wouldn't get much of a house for less than 150k. I'd be more concerned if someone had't got "a rainy day" fund in case of unemployment or other emergency. Spending on a deposit (for the level of mortgage mentioned above), wipes that fund out in one fell swoop.

stepbar · 04-02-2010 11:50PM

D3PO wrote: »

Spot on fletch. its because too many people here thing they deserve everything, the new car, the 2-3 holidays a year, go out every weekend, for dinner, concerts etc.

If you want to buy a house then you have to make an effort of saving for it. Home ownership isnt an entitlement

Hold on, there's a happy medium somewhere. People are entitled to enjoy themselves a bit. It's not all take, other people depend on you spending you wage too. It shouldn't be beyond anyone to own a home of their own.

Let me tell you when you've given over the best part of 15k to a landlord over the last 3 yrs you'd understand where I'm coming from when I say I'd like to own my own home. I'd be more concerned about making sure I've the "rainy day fund" sorted out first than the deposit for a house. I don't think I should necessarilly be punished for it (of course it depends on the size of mortgage one is looking for).

D3PO · 05-02-2010 12:06AM

stepbar wrote: »

Hold on, there's a happy medium somewhere. People are entitled to enjoy themselves a bit. It's not all take, other people depend on you spending you wage too. It shouldn't be beyond anyone to own a home of their own.

).

I never said there wasnt a happy medium, but the amount of people that have the attitude i want a house why wont the bank give me x% its too hard to save that much it will take forever need a reality check.

im just saying if people want to buy a hosue they have to realise that most likely means a change in your lifestyle, instead of going out friday and saturday night perhaps you can only go out one of the nights or even once every two weeks, instead o the skii holiday and the sun holiday and the 2-3 city breaks you can only have the 1 sun holiday etc etc

fact is that irresponsible attitudes to money got us into this mess and people need to realise that owning a house and the finincial commitment to it means they need to look long and hard about what there doing and how their living.

stepbar · 05-02-2010 12:12AM

D3PO wrote: »

I never said there wasnt a happy medium, but the amount of people that have the attitude i want a house why wont the bank give me x% its too hard to save that much it will take forever need a reality check.

im just saying if people want to buy a hosue they have to realise that most likely means a change in your lifestyle, instead of going out friday and saturday night perhaps you can only go out one of the nights or even once every two weeks, instead o the skii holiday and the sun holiday and the 2-3 city breaks you can only have the 1 sun holiday etc etc

fact is that irresponsible attitudes to money got us into this mess and people need to realise that owning a house and the finincial commitment to it means they need to look long and hard about what there doing and how their living.

Of course, but I choose to spend my money on my education / "rainy day fund" in the hope of moving up the greasy pole in a few yrs time. That's not irresponsible nor should it prevent me from buying a house under a certain price bracket (as suggested 150k) without a deposit. BTW, I haven't had a holiday in 3 years!

D3PO · 05-02-2010 12:40AM

stepbar wrote: »

Of course, but I choose to spend my money on my education / "rainy day fund" in the hope of moving up the greasy pole in a few yrs time. That's not irresponsible nor should it prevent me from buying a house under a certain price bracket (as suggested 150k) without a deposit. BTW, I haven't had a holiday in 3 years!

im not aiming my posts towards you its fair to say your in the minority, but nobody should be allowed to buy a house without a deposit.

100% mortgages are a bad idea theres no argument for them at all regardless of the circumstance

stepbar · 05-02-2010 01:14AM

D3PO wrote: »

im not aiming my posts towards you its fair to say your in the minority, but nobody should be allowed to buy a house without a deposit.

100% mortgages are a bad idea theres no argument for them at all regardless of the circumstance

An affordable home deposit is 3%. Given that the majority of these type of houses are overvalued as is (imo), you might as well give out a 120% mortgage. It's very incorrect to say that a 100% mortgage is a bad idea in all circumstances. The problem back in the day was everyone was getting them and adding in rental income to get same. As i've said under a certain level it makes very little difference in terms of risk.

D3PO · 05-02-2010 01:37AM

stepbar wrote: »

An affordable home deposit is 3%.

and an even more affordable deposit is 2% doesnt mean that should be a reasonable though does it ?

I still stick by the premise that if somebody can only save 3% they cannot afford to buy a property. It just indicates they dont have a saving mentality, and are likely to fall into difficulty repaying if rates go up if they have unexpected expense arising etc

D3PO · 05-02-2010 01:41AM

stepbar wrote: »

As i've said under a certain level it makes very little difference in terms of risk.

True but banks shouldnt be in the business of taking unnecessary risks, and certainly any banks that have been bailed out by the taxpayer via Nama would be silly to even consider it

Senna · 05-02-2010 01:43AM

stepbar wrote: »

It's very incorrect to say that a 100% mortgage is a bad idea in all circumstances.

Every single house in the country is dropping in price and will be for a few more years, it is very correct to say 100% mortgages are a bad idea. At least it give some equity to the people buying, but more importantly having a deposit proves you ability to budget and save.

stepbar wrote: »

As i've said under a certain level it makes very little difference in terms of risk.

What levels?? people buy houses in relation to their incomes, a millionaire doesn't buy a house for €150k and a minimum wage worker doesn't buy one for €500k. Just because a house is €100k, doesn't mean the purchaser is more likely or less likely to default.

Whats the maximum mortgage you can get nowdays?

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