Surname battle

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 11:22AM #1

My partner and I are planning a family. We're both very liberal and I thought he saw me as an equal until he said he assumed the children would have his name. I never intended on changing my name and I want my children to have my name. I will be the one having them, so why would he assume this is what I would want, especially as he knows I'm not into maintaining patriarchal traditions like this.
I tried to compromise by suggesting double barrel names, but it is not even negotiable. I have now seen a sexist side to him and he is not taking my views into account. He said it will be confusing if they have two last names, but so what? Why shouldn't our children have mum and dad's names? Why is he being so sexist? Help.

metrovelvet · 24-03-2010 11:43AM

Do you use your mothers or your father's last name yourself?

We are all using our fathers, grandfathers last names. I would hate a double barell. Let him have this one. It's probably the last decision he will ever make.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 11:47AM

I think you are the insensitive one. If someone goes to school with a double barrel name (i.e. the child), people are going to assume his parents have problems or something. Different = bullies. You are also going against the norms of society and that is obviously making him feel less wanted. I think you need to see this from his perspective

seamus · 24-03-2010 11:52AM

It's traditional, even if the woman doesn't adopt the man's surname, that the children will take the man's surname. It's the whole "carrying the family name" thing.

Although it has sexist origins, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's being sexist - he made a presumption based on the way he was raised.

You also have to consider that he may be concerned about being emasculated. If he's married but his wife or kids don't have his surname, then who is he - Bobo the sperm guy? I'm know that's how I'd feel if my wife suggested that our kids had her surname. It would be equally sexist to suggest that the kids take your name on account of you having carried them.

I think double-barrelled is probably the way you'll have to go, he might just take some tiem adjusting to it. Other things which couples have been known to do is to create a whole new surname for themselves based on merging their two surnames. So if, for example your surnames are "Burke and Kenny", then you give the kids a new surname - "Burney" (or something!

).

Danniboo · 24-03-2010 12:01PM

surname wrote: »

My partner and I are planning a family. We're both very liberal and I thought he saw me as an equal until he said he assumed the children would have his name. I never intended on changing my name and I want my children to have my name. I will be the one having them, so why would he assume this is what I would want, especially as he knows I'm not into maintaining patriarchal traditions like this.
I tried to compromise by suggesting double barrel names, but it is not even negotiable. I have now seen a sexist side to him and he is not taking my views into account. He said it will be confusing if they have two last names, but so what? Why shouldn't our children have mum and dad's names? Why is he being so sexist? Help.

You're being just as sexist and unfair, if he agrees to double barrel what's next who's name is first or last :rolleyes:. You get to experience the joy of carrying the child for 9 months and they will always have a special bond with their mother, given them their fathers surname is a way for them to have a special bond to him. Anyways your shoving your extreme liberal views on your children by going against the norm with the surname thing, that's not fair.

Lux23 · 24-03-2010 12:15PM

Danniboo wrote: »

You're being just as sexist and unfair, if he agrees to double barrel what's next who's name is first or last :rolleyes:. You get to experience the joy of carrying the child for 9 months and they will always have a special bond with their mother, given them their fathers surname is a way for them to have a special bond to him. Anyways your shoving your extreme liberal views on your children by going against the norm with the surname thing, that's not fair.

In Spain and Portugal some people have double barrel names as it can be traditional for children to take one name from the father and one from the mother so in an equal society I see double barrelled names as the way forward. There will be only one male in Ireland who can carry on my family name so I fully intend my children to get my name and this is not an extreme or even liberal view, its equalitarian.

OP - you will both have to settle for the double barrel name and I don't see why people see this an issue. Don't back down and listen to views such as the above, you partner has control over the kind of realtionship he has with his children and carrying his name soley will not make a blind bit of difference.

krudler · 24-03-2010 12:18PM

surname wrote: »

My partner and I are planning a family. We're both very liberal and I thought he saw me as an equal until he said he assumed the children would have his name. I never intended on changing my name and I want my children to have my name. I will be the one having them, so why would he assume this is what I would want, especially as he knows I'm not into maintaining patriarchal traditions like this.
I tried to compromise by suggesting double barrel names, but it is not even negotiable. I have now seen a sexist side to him and he is not taking my views into account. He said it will be confusing if they have two last names, but so what? Why shouldn't our children have mum and dad's names? Why is he being so sexist? Help.

Last I heard it takes two people to make a baby, and he'll be raising them as well. If you think its sexist to do anything traditional then dont have kids. Theres being liberal and not taking his name in marriage (assuming you didnt/wont given your view on this) and then theres just being liberal to the point of being over the top and petty, is a child not having your name going to degrade you as a woman in any way? no of course not, and its the way the vast majority of people are named, yourself included probably.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 12:21PM

surname wrote: »

We're both very liberal

and I thought he saw me as an equal Help.

You don't sound anything close to liberal, and you are blowing this out of all proportion. Because your partner wants to do the normal thing (like it or not its what about 99% of the population do) you think he sees you as inferior.

Your fighting this fight to draw.

Sorry but I think your being very silly.

Lux23 · 24-03-2010 12:21PM

krudler wrote: »

Last I heard it takes two people to make a baby, and he'll be raising them as well. QUOTE]

So why object to a double barrell name then?

seamus · 24-03-2010 12:22PM

Lux23 wrote: »

There will be only one male in Ireland who can carry on my family name so I fully intend my children to get my name and this is not an extreme or even liberal view, its equalitarian.

I presume you mean that a double-barrelled name is equalitarian

Another aspect I thought of this, still has to do with emasculation, but is equally valid.

If the children have your surname and your husband is bringing them to a doctor's, school, whatever, then your husband is going to be called by your surname. All the time, by receptionists saying, "Mr. <whatever>, your son is finished" and so forth.

I can tell you from experience that being called by your wife's surname is about as bad as having 50 of your mates standing behind you making whipping noises. It's funny once or twice, an in-joke. If it was happening all the time, I would find it humiliating.

Danniboo · 24-03-2010 12:24PM

Lux23 wrote: »

In Spain and Portugal some people have double barrel names as it can be traditional for children to take one name from the father and one from the mother so in an equal society I see double barrelled names as the way forward. There will be only one male in Ireland who can carry on my family name so I fully intend my children to get my name and this is not an extreme or even liberal view, its equalitarian.

OP - you will both have to settle for the double barrel name and I don't see why people see this an issue. Don't back down and listen to views such as the above, you partner has control over the kind of realtionship he has with his children and carrying his name soley will not make a blind bit of difference.

How exactly is you insisting that your children get your name equality? We're not in Spain or Portugal and we don't live by other countries belief systems, would you be so quick to throw another country into the equation if people were to say women should cover up completely in public, no I don't think so.

Don't dismiss my views there as valid as anyone elses, call me crazy but some people think taking the surname of the man you love or marry as a sign of your commitment to each other and to share a family name.

metrovelvet · 24-03-2010 12:26PM

I dont think its fair to burden the child with the choice of two names by imposing your ideologies on the child.

We take our fathers names. It is their gift to us.

Lux23 · 24-03-2010 12:29PM

Danniboo wrote: »

How exactly is you insisting that your children get your name equality? We're not in Spain or Portugal and we don't live by other countries belief systems, would you be so quick to throw another country into the equation if people were to say women should cover up completely in public, no I don't think so.

Don't dismiss my views there as valid as anyone elses, call me crazy but some people think taking the surname of the man you love or marry as a sign of your commitment to each other and to share a family name.

They will get my name and my partners name, although that's assuming the guy will be round for the kid. I wouldn't expect my children to have just my name so why should a make partner? That's equality. I won't call you crazy, that's your opinion but call someone extreme because they want their children to carry both names is way out of line.

krudler · 24-03-2010 12:34PM

Danniboo wrote: »

How exactly is you insisting that your children get your name equality? We're not in Spain or Portugal and we don't live by other countries belief systems, would you be so quick to throw another country into the equation if people were to say women should cover up completely in public, no I don't think so.

Don't dismiss my views there as valid as anyone elses, call me crazy but some people think taking the surname of the man you love or marry as a sign of your commitment to each other and to share a family name.

bingo, theres a traditional aspect of being married or involved with someone, if you dont like the idea of that, then dont be in a relationship and instead you can live out your days alone but as a woman free from her penis endowed opressors.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 12:35PM

seamus wrote: »

I presume you mean that a double-barrelled name is equalitarian

Another aspect I thought of this, still has to do with emasculation, but is equally valid.

If the children have your surname and your husband is bringing them to a doctor's, school, whatever, then your husband is going to be called by your surname. All the time, by receptionists saying, "Mr. <whatever>, your son is finished" and so forth.

I can tell you from experience that being called by your wife's surname is about as bad as having 50 of your mates standing behind you making whipping noises. It's funny once or twice, an in-joke. If it was happening all the time, I would find it humiliating.

but women shouldn't feel humiliated because centuries of tradition mean they and their children should have a man's name? If this is what makes men emasculated no wonder the OP wants a strong female surname for her children.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 12:35PM

Lux23 wrote: »

although that's assuming the guy will be round for the kid.

whoa, thats a big leap right there.

Interesting line of thought you have there

Danniboo · 24-03-2010 12:40PM

There will be only one male in Ireland who can carry on my family name so I fully intend my children to get my name and this is not an extreme or even liberal view, its equalitarian.

This is what you said not that I want the kids to have both our names. To be honest if you really felt equal to your partner you wouldn't feel the need to cling to every bit of control you can over small issues, if you really believed you were equal you wouldn't mind giving the odd compromise here and there as should he, something so small shouldn't make you feel less equal if you truly believe you are.

By the way call me crazy is an expression, not my opinon, I don't actually believe i'm crazy!

metrovelvet · 24-03-2010 12:41PM

There are feminists who argue heterosexuality is part of the patriarchal system and that by having a baby you have been hoisted on your own biological petard and have given into the patriarchal oppressors because now you will be confined to the menialities of motherhood rather than pursuing your dreams.

Jesus Christ give the child his father's last name.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 12:43PM

You also havent considered what your child will have to go through explaining over and over why he has his mother's surname and not his fathers. There are bound to be kids making up rumours that he is not the real father.

Your partner is also going to have to constantly explain to people that he is in fact the real father.

Double-barrel names are silly most of the time and it will just remind you constantly of this disagreement.

Whatever about your so-called "liberal" views, your child shouldnt have them imposed on her/him.

Danniboo · 24-03-2010 12:44PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

There are feminists who argue heterosexuality is part of the patriarchal system and that by having a baby you have been hoisted on your own biological petard and have given into the patriarchal oppressors because now you will be confined to the menialities of motherhood rather than pursuing your dreams.

Jesus Christ give the child his father's last name.

Honestly, have you ever heard the likes did it ever dawn that women might actually want a baby and that might be their dream :rolleyes:

Lux23 · 24-03-2010 12:45PM

Danniboo wrote: »

There will be only one male in Ireland who can carry on my family name so I fully intend my children to get my name and this is not an extreme or even liberal view, its equalitarian.

This is what you said not that I want the kids to have both our names. To be honest if you really felt equal to your partner you wouldn't feel the need to cling to every bit of control you can over small issues, if you really believed you were equal you wouldn't mind giving the odd compromise here and there as should he, something so small shouldn't make you feel less equal if you truly believe you are.

By the way call me crazy is an expression, not my opinon, I don't actually believe i'm crazy!

I meant both names. Sorry if you misunderstood me. I see your point there and as I have yet to meet someone to share my life with I haven't learned all that much about compromise in realtionships yet but I don't see why a double barrell name is such a big deal for any man. I could become one of those women that give every part of their life over to the man she loves but at the moment I have my views on these things.

metrovelvet · 24-03-2010 12:47PM

Danniboo wrote: »

Honestly, have you ever heard the likes did it ever dawn that women might actually want a baby and that might be their dream :rolleyes:

Duh. Of course I have.

Im just pointing out what some ideologies would say about it, the same ideology which is propelling this argument about the surname.

Danniboo · 24-03-2010 12:49PM

Lux23 wrote: »

I meant both names. Sorry if you misunderstood me. I see your point there and as I have yet to meet someone to share my life with I haven't learned all that much about compromise in realtionships yet but I don't see why a double barrell name is such a big deal for any man. I could become one of those women that give every part of their life over to the man she loves but at the moment I have my views on these things.

Some people automatically presume kids with a double barrel surname come from a broken home, their parents aren't married(not that there's anything wrong with that) etc, just some food for thought.

I'm all for being independant etc but I really don't think it would be a problem taking my future husbands surname or for my kids to so. If you are absolutely head over heels in love with someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them would you not be proud to share his name.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 12:51PM

Danniboo wrote: »

Some people automatically presume kids with a double barrel surname come from a broken home, their parents aren't married(not that there's anything wrong with that) etc, just some food for thought.

I'm all for being independant etc but I really don't think it would be a problem taking my future husbands surname or for my kids to so. If you are absolutely head over heels in love with someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them would you not be proud to share his name.

Why would he not be proud to share yours? Why is the woman the one to give up her name to ensure a man doesn't feel emasculated?

Danniboo · 24-03-2010 12:52PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

Duh. Of course I have.

Im just pointing out what some ideologies would say about it, the same ideology which is propelling this argument about the surname.

I think you took my post up wrong, I wasn't actually asking you or saying you were speaking nonsense.I did realise these weren't your views from the wording of your post , it was a somewhat rhetorical question, you obviously didn't pick up on that.

krudler · 24-03-2010 12:53PM

Lux23 wrote: »

I meant both names. Sorry if you misunderstood me. I see your point there and as I have yet to meet someone to share my life with I haven't learned all that much about compromise in realtionships yet but I don't see why a double barrell name is such a big deal for any man. I could become one of those women that give every part of their life over to the man she loves but at the moment I have my views on these things.

Thats not the issue either, I dont assume my girlfriend is going to be all about me once/if we get married, I want her to have her own career and goals just as much as I do, I dont subscribe to the good little housewife idealogy for a woman, if the woman is happy to do that then fine, but if she wants her own career and as long as the marriage and upbringing of the kids doesnt suffer then more power to her. There has to be some compromise in all aspects of relationships, but like it or not having your fathers name is a traditional thing, you can be as liberal and hip as you like but it just seems like you're doing it for the sake of appearances, and what about the kids? children with double barrelled names are ripe for bullying in school, because other kids will pick up on anything different and run with it.

When it comes to marriage men usually get the lower part of the "equality" anyway, the majority of weddings are based around what the bride wants, I've been to weddings where the groom had no more input than turning up on the day, same with divorce, custody of kids usually goes to the mother. So let him have his kids be named after him, its not oppressing your womanhood in any way.

omahaid · 24-03-2010 12:58PM

Sorry OP, I'm going to side with the majority on this thread. It has nothing to do with how he views you it's just tradition. And the child will be treated differently if s/he has a double barreled surname or the mothers surname. So for that reason alone I would go with the fathers surname.

LegacyUser · 24-03-2010 01:01PM

OP a man's name is fundamental to his being

Its one of the few things he contributes,
You get to carry the child and bond with it in a way a father cant

and you now want to deny him the normal fathers right/ tradition

Why is his name an issue for YOU!
I'd see that as an insult to my family

Lux23 · 24-03-2010 01:05PM

Danniboo wrote: »

Some people automatically presume kids with a double barrel surname come from a broken home, their parents aren't married(not that there's anything wrong with that) etc, just some food for thought.

QUOTE]

What is so wrong with coming from a broken home or if their parents aren't married? These things aren't taboo anymore unless you are a member of SPUC so I don't see why this is a problem. And if I ever met someone with a double barrell name I would just assume they were posh more than anything. Thats what I associate it with in my mind.

krudler · 24-03-2010 01:08PM

Lux23 wrote: »

Danniboo wrote: »

Some people automatically presume kids with a double barrel surname come from a broken home, their parents aren't married(not that there's anything wrong with that) etc, just some food for thought.

QUOTE]

What is so wrong with coming from a broken home or if their parents aren't married? These things aren't taboo anymore unless you are a member of SPUC so I don't see why this is a problem. And if I ever met someone with a double barrell name I would just assume they were posh more than anything. Thats what I associate it with in my mind.

Thats another target for bullying in school, see how easy you just admitted you'd view someone differently with a double name? imagine what a bunch of kids would do with that

TomMc · 24-03-2010 01:15PM

I think pompous / pretentious parents when I hear double-barrelled names. Although more from the mothers side. Calling a child a name that sounds more like a firm of solicitors is hardly joined up thinking. Just my 2c.

Surname battle

Comments