is boards.ie against the public sector??

dean21 · 26-03-2010 10:15AM #1

Has any other person come across this? On boards it look to me that it is ok for the private sector to insult the public sector but if the public sector hits back at them we get warning ect
Are boards just turning in to the same old Irish media such???

Count Dooku · 26-03-2010 10:21AM

PS unions propaganda is not working anymore, all myths have been destroyed and nobody believes anymore to frustrated CPSU clerks, which are blaming everybody, except themselves

PeakOutput · 26-03-2010 10:25AM

dean21 wrote: »

Has any other person come across this? On boards it look to me that it is ok for the private sector to insult the public sector but if the public sector hits back at them we get warning ect
Are boards just turning in to the same old Irish media such???

which anti private sector post got a warning?

gandalf · 26-03-2010 10:36AM

There are stupid posts from both Pro and Anti PS viewpoints. There are also a lot of valid points being discussed.

I would say that the overwhelming view coming out of here is that people want value for their taxes whether they are from the private or public sectors. I like the majority of you out there do not want to saddle our children with a mass of debts and problems. We as a country have to grow up and be responsible.

Eliot Rosewater · 26-03-2010 10:40AM

dean21 wrote: »

Are boards just turning in to the same old Irish media such???

Boards.ie is only the sum total of it parts, ie the posters. As a website it does not take any view on the public sector. The views being expressed on this forum every day are merely a reflection of the deep and profound anger the private sector taxpayer feels towards the public sector, who it has to pay for inefficient and costly services.

murphaph · 26-03-2010 10:45AM

I received a couple of warnings for the way in which I attacked a public sector worker. from my side it looks like the mods are being fair and equitable with everyone.

seamus · 26-03-2010 10:55AM

boards.ie the website does not hold opinions about things.

It's a forum where the public hold a free and fair interchange of opinions and has shown itself in recent times to have a membership which is very closely representative to the public at large.

You can take it for granted that it if it looks like the membership of boards.ie are very opposed to something, then the public at large are probably also very opposed to it.

Permabear · 26-03-2010 11:01AM

This post has been deleted.

danman · 26-03-2010 11:09AM

I'm finding among my friends and family, that the vast majority of people are against this strike.
Even among my PS friends and family. Only 1 has said he supports the union actions.

if that is reflected on Boards.ie, that's how it should be. A forum is for debate of the masses. If the majority has one opinion, that will be reflected on this forum.

beeno67 · 26-03-2010 11:13AM

dean21 wrote: »

Are boards just turning in to the same old Irish media such???

Why do public servants constantly blame the media? I understand public servants are upset about their pay cuts. But it annoys me how they exagerate the amounts. For example a public sector worker on 30K a year, after pension levy and pay cut is down a little over €3 a day after tax. Now I know you are going to scream you are down a lot more than that but there are 2 reasons for that.
1. Reduction in overtime. Overtime had to be reduced. So yes you are getting less pay but are doing less overtime. Indeed this is quite similar to the unpaid leave idea the unions had before the election
2. Changes to taxation/PRSI. But this effects everyone.

It is difficult for people who have lost their jobs or taken paycuts much higher than public service not to get annoyed at the attitude of some of the more militant PS workers. I say more militant because the majority of PS workers I talk to and indeed the majority of PS posters on this site (if not actual posts) are much more accepting of the cuts.

ei.sdraob · 26-03-2010 11:18AM

i am (see my username

) not against the public sector

i am against the:

* sense of entitlement in the face of the country being bankrupt
* the sheer stupidity of the unions who are leading the workers like lemmings of a cliff
* the talk about reforms that were promised a decade ago and never materialized (and now "some of yee are saying we didnt promise anything in return for benchmarking")
* the constant "but the banks blah blah" statements

i am for:
* commons sense and some cop on

dean21 · 26-03-2010 11:22AM

Because in here and in the media they think all public sectors are the same
If I was to say that all private sector workers were the same as builders, bankers, estate agents (and we know what they did to this country) would yea like it ?
But most of yea on here give no credit to any public sector worker even if it was a fire officer, that pulls people from house fires.
That is my point when we the (public sector) fight back we get a warning here on boards.
Boards is so anti public sector you might as well let the Irish independent take you over.

dean21 · 26-03-2010 11:27AM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i am (see my username ) not against the public sector

i am against the:

* sense of entitlement in the face of the country being bankrupt
* the sheer stupidity of the unions who are leading the workers like lemmings of a cliff
* the talk about reforms that were promised a decade ago and never materialized (and now "some of yee are saying we didnt promise anything in return for benchmarking")
* the constant "but the banks blah blah" statements

i am for:
* commons sense and some cop on

There you go
Where I work there has being massive reform but once again you believe there was none and choose to be brainwashed by the media and FF.
I think the unions are showing restraint as they could all be up to the same tricks as the CPSU and then this country would be F****D

ei.sdraob · 26-03-2010 11:31AM

dean21 wrote: »

There you go
Where I work there has being massive reform but once again you believe there was none and choose to be brainwashed by the media and FF.
I think the unions are showing restraint as they could all be up to the same tricks as the CPSU and then this country would be F****D

:rolleyes:

yee people are holding the country ransom

causing mayhem and grief

do you really expect any sympathy? people can see right thru the shallow rhetoric of the "bearded ones"

you are not hurting the goverment (for whom ive no love) you are kicking the people of this country, people who are in many cases are in much worse situation that yee protected lot

beeno67 · 26-03-2010 11:37AM

dean21 wrote: »

There you go
Where I work there has being massive reform but once again you believe there was none and choose to be brainwashed by the media and FF.
I think the unions are showing restraint as they could all be up to the same tricks as the CPSU and then this country would be F****D

Will you stop blaming the media. Are you saying there is no scope for reform in any area of the public service? Just because your section does not need reform it is ridiculous to think the rest of the public sector does not need reform

astrofool · 26-03-2010 11:39AM

I don't think boards.ie treats all PS staff the same.

The PS unions do however.

ei.sdraob · 26-03-2010 11:40AM

beeno67 wrote: »

it is ridiculous to think the rest of the public sector does not need reform

they can start by including into contracts the bits about answering phones and actually dealing with public :mad:

while they are at it remove anything that prevents these people from being fired for not doing their jobs and operate like private companies do. enough of this protected jobs for life crap

gandalf · 26-03-2010 11:41AM

dean21 wrote: »

Because in here and in the media they think all public sectors are the same

No I just think you are being a bit too sensitive there.

If I was to say that all private sector workers were the same as builders, bankers, estate agents (and we know what they did to this country) would yea like it ?

Actually that is quite insulting to the people in those professions who did no wrong at all. You're complaining about generalisation and following it up with a very broad brush of generalisation?

But most of yea on here give no credit to any public sector worker even if it was a fire officer, that pulls people from house fires.

But not all PS workers are fire officers. If I was a Nurse, Doctor, Garda, Fireman, Paramedic I would be sick at this stage of being used as a shield for all the other PS workers some of whom are lazy and are taking advantage of the bad management in the PS. As I have said before I accept the majority of PS workers do want to work hard and do want to deliver the best service they can but they are being held back by a protected minority who are basically dead wood.

That is my point when we the (public sector) fight back we get a warning here on boards.
Boards is so anti public sector you might as well let the Irish independent take you over.

You obviously got infracted for getting personal with some one. You may have reacted to them insulting you. In a case like that you need to report their post using the warning icon

on the left hand side of their post and not react in thread to it.

Laminations · 26-03-2010 11:54AM

astrofool wrote: »

I don't think boards.ie treats all PS staff the same.

The PS unions do however.

This is my problem. The union needs to accept that many higher paid members have to take cuts. I've been advocating wage compression, a fancy name for cuts, but targeted cuts. Every facet of the PS needs to be examined. If you are on above average pay for your department you take a 20% cut on what you are earning above that average. This i believe is a fairer way to cut. Rankings of pay would remain the same but we'd get a compression and therefore a reduction in the average pay overall.

DeVore · 26-03-2010 11:59AM

How has Boards.ie itself taken a position on this??

DeV.

Laminations · 26-03-2010 12:01PM

DeVore wrote: »

How has Boards.ie itself taken a position on this??

DeV.

Exactly. Its a ludicrous as saying the site is anti Fianna Fail

bamboozle · 26-03-2010 12:09PM

my own view is that many public sector posters seem to have swallowed their unions mantra and dont see the wood from the trees

we're not responsible
we didnt benefit during boom
how can i live on reduced salary
we didnt drive up property prices
we didnt cause banking crisis
govt creating a wedge between public & private sector
and my favourite; private sector are not having salaries cut (eh there are 436k people unemployed)
Lets ignore the hugely pertinent roles played by public servants such as Financial regulator, central bank, ministers for finance, current and former Taoiseach in failing to regulate the banking industry & deflate an over heated property bubble.

when in reality the simple fact of the matter is that our state is broke and cannot afford to meet its financial commitments, hence need to cut costs,
i'm sure there are many committed and hard working public sector workers out there,
however, there are also some very lazy PS workers (Limerick Hospital porter's take a bow! actually dont you might injure yourselves and need to go on more sick leave) and there are some dreadful inefficiencies, work practices, wages, payments etc etc being exposed in many public sector areas.

what i feel as a private sector tax payer is that the government has a duty to tax payers to ensure that these taxes are spent wisely, hence my anger when i hear of all of the above.

GoldenTickets · 26-03-2010 12:11PM

Ah yeah, there's deffo an anti-public sector slant on boards.ie, that's as plain as day. But as long as people keep things civil sure it doesn't matter. I think a lot of the posters on here are anti-public sector because they are a bit peeved that other people have jobs and a lot of it comes from resentment and bitterness. I reckon it would be helpful if those folks who attack the public sector out of jelousy instead focused their anger on the government and tried to achieve change that way. We all just want to earn a wage at the end of the day, why have a go at anyone who is trying to do that? It's all just posturing really, sure everyone on here is anonymous and they never have to back up anything they say so people go a bit overboard and act like they know what they're talking about when they don't. Boards.ie isn't the real world so you shouldn't let it worry you if people come on here to let off a bit of steam by bashing the public sector. Just keep posting and supporting the public sector yourself, that's the best way to deal with it. Up the public sector!

Gurgle · 26-03-2010 12:14PM

Boards.ie is a cross-section of the country, and the country has been manipulated into blaming 'greedy public servants' / 'greedy banking executives' / 'greedy developers' (delete own employment sector) for the recession rather than the governments complete failure to act as financial regulator.

gandalf · 26-03-2010 12:14PM

GoldenTickets wrote: »

Ah yeah, there's deffo an anti-public sector slant on boards.ie, that's as plain as day.

Maybe because the majority of the public don't agree with the current stance of the PS unions? Did you ever consider that?

ixoy · 26-03-2010 12:17PM

deadtiger wrote: »

Maybe because the majority of the public don't agree with the current stance of the PS unions? Did you ever consider that?

More anti-PS sentiment! Typical from a poster whose posts have been quite rational and backed up with facts!

GoldenTickets · 26-03-2010 12:19PM

deadtiger wrote: »

Maybe because the majority of the public don't agree with the current stance of the PS unions? Did you ever consider that?

Yes.

ParkRunner · 26-03-2010 12:27PM

I don't think boards.ie is anti-public sector but the majority of posts and posters are. Public services are in great demand therefore public servants are simply too busy to be coming on here giving lengthy justifications for their actions. That is a job for the unions in the general media and in discussions with the government. Anyway, carry on.

dean21 · 26-03-2010 12:38PM

beeno67 wrote: »

Will you stop blaming the media. Are you saying there is no scope for reform in any area of the public service? Just because your section does not need reform it is ridiculous to think the rest of the public sector does not need reform

i said we have had reform
i never said they was no need for reform but people assume that no part of the PS has reformed
O up date another warning issued to me i wonder why?

Scofflaw · 26-03-2010 12:40PM

dean21 wrote: »

Has any other person come across this? On boards it look to me that it is ok for the private sector to insult the public sector but if the public sector hits back at them we get warning ect
Are boards just turning in to the same old Irish media such???

There is no official or unofficial line being pursued by boards.ie or the Politics mods in respect of the public sector.

Accusations of moderator bias - which is what the above is - belong more properly in the feedback forum, or in a complaint to the CMods. They do not belong in the forum itself, as per the Charter. If this thread is to be a discussion of the moderation of the forum as per the OP, it does not belong here - if it remains a discussion of the attitude of posters, as it has become, it is welcome to stay.

moderately,
Scofflaw

dean21 · 26-03-2010 12:40PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

:rolleyes:

yee people are holding the country ransom

causing mayhem and grief

do you really expect any sympathy? people can see right thru the shallow rhetoric of the "bearded ones"

you are not hurting the goverment (for whom ive no love) you are kicking the people of this country, people who are in many cases are in much worse situation that yee protected lot

There you go again
Generalization again
I am on no work to rule so why use “yea People”

dean21 · 26-03-2010 12:46PM

Laminations wrote: »

This is my problem. The union needs to accept that many higher paid members have to take cuts. I've been advocating wage compression, a fancy name for cuts, but targeted cuts. Every facet of the PS needs to be examined. If you are on above average pay for your department you take a 20% cut on what you are earning above that average. This i believe is a fairer way to cut. Rankings of pay would remain the same but we'd get a compression and therefore a reduction in the average pay overall.

Well said and I agree
In the PS it is management that needs reform
In benchmarking manager awarded big pay rises to managers
When the cut came the cut all wages and then reversed them for the high paid managers

Inquitus · 26-03-2010 12:49PM

Gurgle wrote: »

Boards.ie is a cross-section of the country, and the country has been manipulated into blaming 'greedy public servants' / 'greedy banking executives' / 'greedy developers' (delete own employment sector) for the recession rather than the governments complete failure to act as financial regulator.

I disagree, the current raging against the PS Unions is not an effort to apportion blame.

Its grounded in the fact that we, the country, can't sustain the level of the current PS Wagebill, and everyone realises further cuts are inevitable. There are only two ways to reduce the wage bill, job cuts coupled with increased efficiencies, or wage cuts with the same numbers employed....neither of which the PS Unions deem acceptable.

Its sheer selfish lunacy for a the PS Unions to mandate no further cuts when the country simply cannot afford to pay the existing wagebill.

MagicSean · 26-03-2010 12:54PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

:rolleyes:

yee people are holding the country ransom

causing mayhem and grief

do you really expect any sympathy? people can see right thru the shallow rhetoric of the "bearded ones"

you are not hurting the goverment (for whom ive no love) you are kicking the people of this country, people who are in many cases are in much worse situation that yee protected lot

Isn't there something in the charter about referring to "beards"?

As a member of the public sector I have read many posts which I consider ignorant and insulting. I don't think you could blame this on the moderators though. I haven't seen any bias in that regard.

dean21 · 26-03-2010 12:57PM

Inquitus wrote: »

I disagree, the current raging against the PS Unions is not an effort to apportion blame.

Its grounded in the fact that we, the country, can't sustain the level of the current PS Wagebill, and everyone realises further cuts are inevitable. There are only two ways to reduce the wage bill, job cuts coupled with increased efficiencies, or wage cuts with the same numbers employed....neither of which the PS Unions deem acceptable.

Its sheer selfish lunacy for a the PS Unions to mandate no further cuts when the country simply cannot afford to pay the existing wagebill.

Now Now Now
We are told that in the talks before xmas that there was massive reform offered by the unions and that is why they are all back talking
What I find hard to understand is why has there being no leaks from the talks??

gandalf · 26-03-2010 12:58PM

k_mac wrote: »

Isn't there something in the charter about referring to "beards"?

As a member of the public sector I have read many posts which I consider ignorant and insulting. I don't think you could blame this on the moderators though. I haven't seen any bias in that regard.

The thing is and having an inside knowledge of this unless you report posts where people are bandying around personal insults the moderators won't catch them. If you feel someone has stepped over the line report it don't react.

gandalf · 26-03-2010 12:58PM

btw dean21 I notice you haven't responded to my post about generalisations?

PeakOutput · 26-03-2010 01:00PM

dean21 wrote: »

Now Now Now
We are told that in the talks before xmas that there was massive reform offered by the unions and that is why they are all back talking

i would love to hear what these massive reforms are if they exist as i have a feeling that the unions idea of 'massive reform' and the publics and the goverments are worlds apart

Inquitus · 26-03-2010 01:00PM

dean21 wrote: »

Now Now Now
We are told that in the talks before xmas that there was massive reform offered by the unions and that is why they are all back talking
What I find hard to understand is why has there being no leaks from the talks??

We need to shave billions off the PS Costs now, not over the next 3 years after we have spent millions on analysing the PS for inefficiencies and slowly implementing reforms.

The only workable way for us to reform from where the country is now is to cut wages further to deliver real savings now, and perhaps link reversing those cuts to delivery of savings and efficiencies by the PS further down the line.

beeno67 · 26-03-2010 01:00PM

dean21 wrote: »

Well said and I agree
In the PS it is management that needs reform
In benchmarking manager awarded big pay rises to managers
When the cut came the cut all wages and then reversed them for the high paid managers

Again this is not true. Those highest paid in public service have taken 30% pay cuts (compared to 5% for lowest paid). They have also paid much more in income tax. Because a small amount had this pay cut lowered to 15% does not change the fact that the majority of highest paid have taken massive cuts compared to lower paid.

Why do people assume incompetence is limited to higher paid?

dean21 · 26-03-2010 01:07PM

beeno67 wrote: »

Again this is not true. Those highest paid in public service have taken 30% pay cuts (compared to 5% for lowest paid). They have also paid much more in income tax. Because a small amount had this pay cut lowered to 15% does not change the fact that the majority of highest paid have taken massive cuts compared to lower paid.

Why do you assume incompetence is limited to higher paid?

where are you getting 30%? Are you including the 10% bonus (which was performance based but even if you did not perform you got it as it was just paid out as part of pay and conditions?)
I see the incompetence every day as they just can’t manage people.

MagicSean · 26-03-2010 01:10PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

i would love to hear what these massive reforms are if they exist as i have a feeling that the unions idea of 'massive reform' and the publics and the goverments are worlds apart

Thats because whenever the public or governement thinks up a reform it tends to be pants. The only useful reforms can come from the frontline workers who know what needs to change.

dean21 · 26-03-2010 01:12PM

Inquitus wrote: »

We need to shave billions off the PS Costs now, not over the next 3 years after we have spent millions on analysing the PS for inefficiencies and slowly implementing reforms.

The only workable way for us to reform from where the country is now is to cut wages further to deliver real savings now, and perhaps link reversing those cuts to delivery of savings and efficiencies by the PS further down the line.

I would think that is what is being talked about but if they cut wages again they will push moral so low that we will push the public sector back in time. i dont think we want the passport issue being played out in all the public sector sections.
The best way forward for the public sector and the irish people is for agreement and go forward with the workers on board

dean21 · 26-03-2010 01:14PM

k_mac wrote: »

Thats because whenever the public or governement thinks up a reform it tends to be pants. The only useful reforms can come from the frontline workers who know what needs to change.

I would think 8 am to 8pm in all our clinics and hospitals for all staff that has to be part of it

beeno67 · 26-03-2010 01:23PM

dean21 wrote: »

where are you getting 30%? Are you including the 10% bonus (which was performance based but even if you did not perform you got it as it was just paid out as part of pay and conditions?)
I see the incompetence every day as they just can’t manage people.

20% pay cut and just under 10% pension levy. This was not offset by pay increments as it was for lower apid (<30k). The vast majority were never entitled to 10% bonus

Count Dooku · 26-03-2010 01:25PM

dean21 wrote: »

Now Now Now
We are told that in the talks before xmas that there was massive reform offered by the unions and that is why they are all back talking
What I find hard to understand is why has there being no leaks from the talks??

It was no massive reform offered, unions asked to setup new quango for their leaders and they finally got it this week.
Unions could publish information about reforms on their websites and easily leak it. But they have nothing to leak

gandalf · 26-03-2010 01:26PM

dean21 wrote: »

I would think that is what is being talked about but if they cut wages again they will push moral so low that we will push the public sector back in time. i dont think we want the passport issue being played out in all the public sector sections.
The best way forward for the public sector and the irish people is for agreement and go forward with the workers on board

If there is another cut its going to be in the form of a change to income tax. I feel they are going to lower the threshold that people are taxed at and they will effect us all and not just the PS.

IrishTonyO · 26-03-2010 01:29PM

k_mac wrote: »

Thats because whenever the public or governement thinks up a reform it tends to be pants. The only useful reforms can come from the frontline workers who know what needs to change.

And the frontline workers unions want the pay cuts reversed! So maybe your unions are not representing you as they should be.
As regards bias on boards.ie I said on many occasions boards is open to all, if you find a large anti PS sentiment then I reckon you will find that is the feeling of the public in general as well.

beeno67 · 26-03-2010 01:30PM

dean21 wrote: »

The best way forward for the public sector and the irish people is for agreement and go forward with the workers on board

But again everyone is happy with that. The problem is that what you actually mean is to go forward on the workers terms.
Why not go forward from here and accept things as they are?

beeno67 · 26-03-2010 01:33PM

k_mac wrote: »

Thats because whenever the public or governement thinks up a reform it tends to be pants. The only useful reforms can come from the frontline workers who know what needs to change.

Again look at "frontline union" the INMO. They pushed for years for

more nurses.
less working hours for nurses
greater management role for nurses
large pay increases for nurses

After all these "reforms" from front line workers the health service is still pants.

PeakOutput · 26-03-2010 01:35PM

k_mac wrote: »

Thats because whenever the public or governement thinks up a reform it tends to be pants. The only useful reforms can come from the frontline workers who know what needs to change.

first of all i think actual front line staff gardai nurses etc are doing quite a good job and should actually have their pay increased if anything and obviously as a result of this they need to be seperated from the rest of the public sector

secondly you dont have to work in the public sector to find inefficiencies in administration practices.

if it was up to me i would organise a completely independant year long audit of all staff

at the start of the year they would be told in 6 months time 25% of you will be made redundant. it will be the lowest performing 25% in 12 months time another 25% will be made redundant, again the lowest performing 25%.

the remaining cream of the crop will be given up to a 50% pay increase across the board in reward for their greater efficiency and being high performers

every year from then on workers will be independantly audited, if you are in the bottom 5% for two years you are let go immedietely if you are in the top 20% you get a bonus top 10% a pay increase. the people who are being let go for being low performers are replaced with top level graduates who are now attracted to the public service because it is challenging and rewarding financially and otherwise

we are now saving more money and getting more bang for our buck from the administrators we could then look at the front line staff and look at rewarding them for their hard jobs but there is bloating in the system here aswell to an extent and reform will also have to happen but i dont see that reform taking any sort of substantial numbers reduction like the admin side should and indeed with the savings made we can invest more in our frontline staff

is boards.ie against the public sector??

Comments