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Garage selling unroadworthy car. Help Req'd

  • 31-03-2010 01:59PM
    #1
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭


    First time poster.

    Long story so I'll start at the beginning.

    A family member bought a car from a "reputable" Cork based main dealer in early 2009 for €11,500. Nice looking car, convertible Mini. After approx 3-4 weeks, she found out that the car was involved in a bad accident (possibly more than one) and was not road worthy. She contacted the salesman who basically didn't want to know anything about it.

    We have an Independent Assessors Report completed on the car with pics and their words were:
    "It appears that this vehicle has been extensively damaged and some areas have not been repaired. The panels that have been repaired are finished to a poor standard. Most of the unrepaired panels that are mentioned above such as the floor pan, driver’s side sill panel and driver’s side B pillar are of a structural nature. The driver’s side sill panel, B pillar and floor being damaged to this extent is unacceptable and we suggest this vehicle is a high insurance risk and is unsafe to drive.”

    I will list some of the problems:
    • Sill panel is creased. This should be at a 90 Degree Angle and the floor should be flat. Independent Assessor said that this is very worrying.
    • No head on the bolt of the strut
    • Split Seem, driver's side front meaning the side of the car is splitting
    • Broken Bolt from Strut

    We approached a solicitor and SIMI and finally one year later have finally reached an agreement although the garage still maintains they have done nothing wrong.

    Basically we have received €7,000. I arranged for the car to be towed to the garage yesterday and collected the money.

    This dealer is a complete cowboy. I really wanted to swing for this pr!ck.

    My main problem with this guy is that he has the car back on sale on his website and carzone. I contacted SIMI this morning to discuss and they are doing nothing about it. They got him to change the wording of the ad to say that the car has been crashed.

    I do not want him selling this car to another young girl because if she crashes, she will be killed, the car is that bad. I have a copy of the Independent Assessors Report available along with pics should anyone be interested. The dealer is in the Cork area. 2004 Mini Convertible €6,995.00

    Has anyone got any advice on how i can legally stop him selling this car?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭mullingar


    MMM,,

    From carzone (all 2004 mini convertables):

    http://www.carzone.ie/search/results?searchsource=finder&nParam=4294836788%2B4294911063%2B4294911086%2B4294602953%2B102547%2B200288%2B200302&channel=CARS&cacheBuster=1270044359474427


    Alarm bells would ring immediately as to why its €5k less than the others


  • #3
    kasper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭kasper


    did the car pass a nct since the repairs were done ? . does the car have a current nct ?


  • #4
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    How was all this damage missed when the car was first purchased?


  • #5
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,546 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    garage wrote: »

    What Value, This Mini Convertible is a bargain buy with full warranty. This car was previously crash repaired and hence the low low price. Full NCT, nearly new tyres, and electric soft-top. The car is fully serviced and is ready to go. We offer nationwide delivery at no extra cost, and we offer competitive finance rates, and we are nice people to do business with.

    .


  • #6
    voxpop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭voxpop


    Is this the car? How can they even sell that, surely there is some legal requirement for the car to be safe.

    no-image-large.gif&width=400&height=300


    no-image-large.gif&width=400&height=300

    no-image-large.gif&width=400&height=300


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  • #7
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭mullingar


    Out of curiosity, I just rang the dealer in question.

    He clearly stated that it was returned by a customer when they discovered it was previously crashed on drivers side. It was crashed in the UK and repaired. It passed its NCT, hence the price


  • #8
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    WHo told you to settle for this figure of 7000, You should have got your money back regardess of time past in a case like this as they surely wouldnt be cheeky enough to claim you had the use of the car for the period of ownership.
    IMO, the car is either safe/properly repaired or its not. Saying its damage repaired on the ad is a help as any buyer should certainly get it looked by a professional before purchase however, if its not safe it should not be offered for sale.
    Very little you can now do though to stop them selling it as is. At least from post above, they are being straight with the explaination to future buyers or maybe they are on boards too & have seen this thread


  • #9
    C Eng
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭C Eng


    A BARGAIN BUY FROM MCCARTHYS DO NOT MISS, Alloys, CAR JUST FULLY SERVICED, CD Player, FULL WATRRANTY AND NCT IF REQUIRED, Multiple Airbags, NATIONWIDE DELIVERY AT NO EXTRA COST.
    What Value, This Mini Convertible is a bargain buy with full warranty. This car was previously crash repaired and hence the low low price. Full NCT, nearly new tyres, and electric soft-top. The car is fully serviced and is ready to go. We offer nationwide delivery at no extra cost, and we offer competitive finance rates, and we are nice people to do business with. Call Tom now on 086-2542154, Contact Shane 086 6069920

    Whats a FULL WATRRANTY does he mean WHAT Warranty by any chance:D

    I like the other ad who ever put it there, its speaks volumes.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd buy nothing off those clowns to be honest, before the were up there they were well known as being cowboys. They had a serious bit of stuff working in the office there though a couple of years back, no help to the OP though. As said, why settle for €7000 ?


  • #11
    rebel.ranter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    That car is one of those elusive crashed repaired cars brought in from the UK, note the high numbered (for Cork) reg plate.

    I agree the OP should not have accepted the reduced settlement. Oh and, SIMI my a$$! they don't give a toss.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OP, Neil Prendiville I reckon ;)
    You have an engineers report and take a printscreen of the carzone add before it dissapears. It's all facts then. Pity you settled for the €7000. Still a year on it's not too bad, still bad though.


  • #13
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭mullingar


    From the ad:

    NCT Expiry: July, 2010

    Interesting to see if it will re-pass


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mullingar wrote: »
    From the ad:

    NCT Expiry: July, 2010

    Interesting to see if it will re-pass

    I was thinking that too :)
    I might call up and waste some of their time some afternoon I have nothing better to do.


  • #15
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭mullingar


    I'd love to see it too and I'd push to get it up on a 2-poster lift to have a good look :D:D:D


  • #16
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Other ad is quite a good idea. God its rough underneath & the underbonnet pic looks brutal too. It wont sell to anyone who sees that ad anyway. Now all thats needed is an advertising campaign near the garage.

    How did that pass the NCT? Surely the structure of the car is important? And from the Engineers report, the areas badly repaired are structural.


  • #17
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    Hi guys,

    Thanks for the savage amount of responses. As you can guess, the other ad on Carzone is me! I'll do my utmost to ensure he doesnt sell that car again.

    I have contacted SIMI again, tbh they are useless, they are completely on the garages side. I have emailed Joe Duffy, Gerry Ryan and Ray D'arcy, lets see if we hear anything back.

    In response to some of the questions asked:
    Most damage is underneath and she didnt look at it! She loved the look of the car and bought with her heart rather than head!

    The cowboy also told my sister that it was returned by a customer when they discovered it was previously crashed on drivers side. She is now the 2nd person known to return the car to him.

    The car was originally priced at 12500 when she bought it.

    Solicitor advised us to settle for the €7k as a court case could take over a year and he could close up in the meantime.

    To Mickdw, they are not being straight with future buyers. Our independent assessor told us that should anything hit either side of the car, they can say goodbye, they will be crushed, the undercarraige is falling apart offering absolutely no protection. Would you let your partner/sister/daughter drive it? This is what I'm trying to do, this car should be off the road, it's a deathtrap.

    RoverJames, Neil Prendiville????

    Mickdw. The car is in ribbons. They are selling it with a noisy exhaust and selling it as "sporty!" When we had it we tried to get an original exhaust put on it and it wouldn't fit as the undercarraige was bent and was stopping the exhaust from fitting perfectly so they are trying to disguise the loud noise.

    If anyone knows anyone around the Cork area, send the pics around! Private Mail me should anyone need the Independent Assessors Report.

    Hope this helps!


  • #18
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    BGTI wrote: »
    Hi guys,

    Thanks for the savage amount of responses. As you can guess, the other ad on Carzone is me! I'll do my utmost to ensure he doesnt sell that car again.

    I have contacted SIMI again, tbh they are useless, they are completely on the garages side. I have emailed Joe Duffy, Gerry Ryan and Ray D'arcy, lets see if we hear anything back.

    In response to some of the questions asked:
    Most damage is underneath and she didnt look at it! She loved the look of the car and bought with her heart rather than head!

    The cowboy also told my sister that it was returned by a customer when they discovered it was previously crashed on drivers side. She is now the 2nd person known to return the car to him.

    The car was originally priced at 12500 when she bought it.

    Solicitor advised us to settle for the €7k as a court case could take over a year and he could close up in the meantime.

    To Mickdw, they are not being straight with future buyers. Our independent assessor told us that should anything hit either side of the car, they can say goodbye, they will be crushed, the undercarraige is falling apart offering absolutely no protection. Would you let your partner/sister/daughter drive it? This is what I'm trying to do, this car should be off the road, it's a deathtrap.

    RoverJames, Neil Prendiville????

    Mickdw. The car is in ribbons. They are selling it with a noisy exhaust and selling it as "sporty!" When we had it we tried to get an original exhaust put on it and it wouldn't fit as the undercarraige was bent and was stopping the exhaust from fitting perfectly so they are trying to disguise the loud noise.

    If anyone knows anyone around the Cork area, send the pics around! Private Mail me should anyone need the Independent Assessors Report.

    Hope this helps!

    Dont get me wrong, IM 100% on your side here but if I had a garage telling me a car was returned by previous owner due to crash damage, If I was still interested (i wouldnt be), I would be having a pro inspection done.


  • #19
    E39MSport
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭E39MSport


    Fair play OP. Good work.


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BGTI wrote: »
    RoverJames, Neil Prendiville????

    96fm late morning chatterbox type thing, Cork's Joe Duffy if you like :)
    I sugggest you email them highlighting the potential danger to anyone buying the car, backed up by engineers report ;)

    http://www.96fm.ie/on-air/show/neil-prendeville/97fb2090-2d3d-45ff-b18a-b9b1bbb33ff5


  • #21
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    rebel.ranter wrote: »
    That car is one of those elusive crashed repaired cars brought in from the UK, note the high numbered (for Cork) reg plate.

    I agree the OP should not have accepted the reduced settlement. Oh and, SIMI my a$$! they don't give a toss.

    Cork ended around 23000 for 04 so it's an early import. Shocking stuff, did the Dealer admit to knowing it was damaged and repaired?


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  • #22
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    Limerick man wrote: »
    Cork ended around 23000 for 04 so it's an early import. Shocking stuff, did the Dealer admit to knowing it was damaged and repaired?

    He told her that the front right hand side of the car was in a small smack but was fixed.

    Even yesterday, the pr!ck has the balls to tell me that he has lost alot of money on this car.


  • #23
    MacGyver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭MacGyver


    what about posting all the details in here like reg, price, and any other useful details so that any potential buyers may google the car and find this thread?


  • #24
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    RoverJames wrote: »
    96fm late morning chatterbox type thing, Cork's Joe Duffy if you like :)
    I sugggest you email them highlighting the potential danger to anyone buying the car, backed up by engineers report ;)

    http://www.96fm.ie/on-air/show/neil-prendeville/97fb2090-2d3d-45ff-b18a-b9b1bbb33ff5

    Thanks for that RoverJames, I'll send it on straight away.


  • #25
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    MacGyver wrote: »
    what about posting all the details in here like reg, price, and any other useful details so that any potential buyers may google the car and find this thread?

    I loaded an ad on carzone and it is located directly below his ad.


  • #26
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    What are the legal ramifications if somebody has a crash and is killed due to the car being unsafe and not being told about it when they bought it? Can the person who sold the car be done for manslaughter?

    What if "they didn't know"... I'd assume if the authorised the repair maybe some action could be taken against them, but if the repair was previous to them having it, I wouldn't say alot could be done...


  • #27
    MacGyver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭MacGyver


    BGTI wrote: »
    I loaded an ad on carzone and it is located directly below his ad.

    Just thinking of another option considering that ad is going to cost you money for how ever long they try to sell the car for, but i appreciate your determination to protect other people. not just the person who may want to buy this car but also anyone in the car if its involved in an accident. We need more people like that these days


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    McCarthy Motors (4X4 and Used Car Specialists)


    Ballycurreen Industrial Estate, Airport Road, Cork, Cork

    Over the years I have test driven 2 cars from this crowd and looked at many more, I wouldn't know a huge amount about cars (I'd know a lot more now than the last time I was up there) but I found the place didn't inspire a buyer with confidence to part with cash. The sales staff seemed not to have a clue, about 6 years ago on one test drive the chap told me he was just back from Oz and knew f all about cars.


  • #29
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    What are the legal ramifications if somebody has a crash and is killed due to the car being unsafe and not being told about it when they bought it? Can the person who sold the car be done for manslaughter?

    I'd like to think that there would be some comeback but after my dealings with the garage and SIMI, I would not be too sure.

    I contacted a lady from SIMI Complaints this morning, she knew of the case and informed her that the car was back up for sale. Nothing has been done.


  • #30
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I'm amazed that it passed an NCT if was structurally unsound and dangerous.


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  • #31
    MacGyver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭MacGyver


    what about informing cartell or the likes? can they add it to information about the car if the op's engineers report was given to them ? surely this thing should have been scrapped when the op was "refunded"


  • #32
    C Eng
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭C Eng


    BGTI might be worth trying to get contact details in RTE for the Buyer Beware TV programme, see if they are working behind the scenes on a new series. Seems like you could give them a very good case on a plate with all relevant back up.


  • #33
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    What about the Road Safety Authority?


  • #34
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    MacGyver wrote: »
    Just thinking of another option considering that ad is going to cost you money for how ever long they try to sell the car for, but i appreciate your determination to protect other people. not just the person who may want to buy this car but also anyone in the car if its involved in an accident. We need more people like that these days

    Thanks. The ad is up for 30 days and cost me €40. It is listed at a cheap price and the chances are is that the majority of the views will be within the first 7- 10 days. If it stops one person buying it.....
    RoverJames wrote: »
    McCarthy Motors (4X4 and Used Car Specialists)


    Ballycurreen Industrial Estate, Airport Road, Cork, Cork

    Over the years I have test driven 2 cars from this crowd and looked at many more, I wouldn't know a huge amount about cars (I'd know a lot more now than the last time I was up there) but I found the place didn't inspire a buyer with confidence to part with cash. The sales staff seemed not to have a clue, about 6 years ago on one test drive the chap told me he was just back from Oz and knew f all about cars.

    I can't comment on any of the other staff apart from the owner and Sales Director as we only dealt with them.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Limerick man wrote: »
    What if "they didn't know"... I'd assume if the authorised the repair maybe some action could be taken against them, but if the repair was previous to them having it, I wouldn't say alot could be done...

    How could they not know, the thing has been returned to them twice and they still are trying to sell it. From the pics it's a potential deathtrap, structural strenght has been compromised and in a shunt the thing would fold like a tablecloth. They have been made aware of the engineers report and are still forecourting the thing. If anyone sold a lump of sh1t like that to someone related to me I'd be up in court for GBH.


  • #36
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    RoverJames wrote: »
    How could they not know, the thing has been returned to them twice and they still are trying to sell it. From the pics it's a potential deathtrap, structural strenght has been compromised and in a shunt the thing would fold like a tablecloth. They have been made aware of the engineers report and are still forecourting the thing. If anyone sold a lump of sh1t like that to someone related to me I'd be up in court for GBH.

    Sorry, I was talking about the initial sale and in general cases, to the quoted post.


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  • #37
    BGTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭BGTI


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    I'm amazed that it passed an NCT if was structurally unsound and dangerous.

    I can't confirm whether the car was crashed in the UK or Ireland hence I can't say if it did pass the NCT after the crash. Our initial Inspector wouldn't drive the car 1 mile to the nearest garage to use the ramp!
    MacGyver wrote: »
    what about informing cartell or the likes? can they add it to information about the car if the op's engineers report was given to them ? surely this thing should have been scrapped when the op was "refunded"

    I will look into this, thanks MacGyver. The garage are saying that the car is ok to drive. They will not accept responsibility, they think they are doing us a favour giving us €7k!!!
    C Eng wrote: »
    BGTI might be worth trying to get contact details in RTE for the Buyer Beware TV programme, see if they are working behind the scenes on a new series. Seems like you could give them a very good case on a plate with all relevant back up.
    Gophur wrote: »
    What about the Road Safety Authority?

    Good ideas. Thanks. I suppose the RSA should have been one of the first port of calls. My head is all over the place with rage!!!


  • #38
    Fey!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭Fey!


    Message sent to the RSA a few minutes ago:
    Fey! wrote:
    To whom it may concern.



    I am writing with regard to a vehicle I have seen discussed on boards.ie, where an imported vehicle sold by an Irish garage was assessed and regarded by the assessor not to be roadworthy.



    This is the thread about it: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055870800



    The same vehicle is advertised for sale here: http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mini/One/Cabriole/201013197398702/advert?channel=CARS



    The previous owners brother has a more detailed ad here: http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mini/One/201013197441682/advert?channel=CARS



    Given that the RSA is supposed to be our our road safety watchdog, and this vehicle passed its NCT when it was not deemed sound by an independent assessor, what does the RSA propose to do about deathtraps such as these on our roads? Also, what actions can the RSA take in cases such as the one highlighted here?



    In order to ensure that vehicles like this are taken off our roads, what organisation has the power to deal with this, and what can/will they do?



    Thank you for your time.



    Regards.

    I looked for an email address for Conor Faughnan from the AA, but I couldn't find one.


  • #39
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    THe more I read here, Id say its more likely that it got the NCT before crash & the garage is just twisting things to put across the message this car has been found to be perfect by NCT people.
    NCT is out in july this year so the car can be sent for new test 3 months early I think which would mean during april. Could be interesting.


  • #40
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭testicle


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    I'm amazed that it passed an NCT if was structurally unsound and dangerous.

    To be honest, the NCT is a joke. The car could be in two halves, and they'd fail it on the brake lights not working.


  • #41
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    mickdw wrote: »
    THe more I read here, Id say its more likely that it got the NCT before crash & the garage is just twisting things to put across the message this car has been found to be perfect by NCT people.
    NCT is out in july this year so the car can be sent for new test 3 months early I think which would mean during april. Could be interesting.

    Well, mullingar posted that, after talking to the dealer in question, the car was crashed in the UK. That would mean that it passed the NCT after the crash if what the dealer is saying is true... which would back testicle's funny claim above. ^^ :)

    Can't believe how badly this has been handled by SIMI. I would understand if people were making blind claims about dodgy dealers or whatever, but when the proof is literally handed to them, they still don't want to do anything about it. I'd love to see someone in a senior position back the garage again when handed this kind of information in black and white.

    Btw, fair play to you BGTI. Nice to see people doing something about this sort of thing for once.


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  • #42
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭mullingar


    Can it not be reported to the guards as a "endangerment to the public"??

    The guards can then do a proper test on the car


    Edit: Tell the guards its not roadworthy and show the engineers report


  • #43
    BigEejit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    mullingar wrote: »
    Can it not be reported to the guards as a "endangerment to the public"??

    The guards can then do a proper test on the car


    Edit: Tell the guards its not roadworthy and show the engineers report
    In an ideal world that would be the thing to do, but they would probably say that its not on the public carrigeway or something and catch the punter that bought it as soon as they drove off the forecourt.....


  • #44
    BigEejit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    Can the OP increase his price by 1 Euro (get on the other side of that ad) and ask people to pay close attention to the registration of this car and other cars of a similar cost....


  • #45
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭mullingar


    Road traffic act 1961:
    Where a member of the Garda Síochána observes a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles in a public place and he suspects that there is a defect affecting the vehicle or combination which is such that it is, when in use, a danger to the public or, in the case of a public service vehicle, there is a defect affecting it which is such that either it is a danger to the public or it is rendered unfit for the carriage of passengers, he may inspect and examine the vehicle or combination and, for the purpose of carrying out the inspection and examination, may do all such things and make all such requirements in relation to it as are reasonably necessary.

    from:

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0020.html


    Take it for a test drive and hail down a guard!!


  • #46
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    rebel.ranter wrote: »
    That car is one of those elusive crashed repaired cars brought in from the UK, note the high numbered (for Cork) reg plate.

    I've seen so much of this crap come in from the UK, really cars like this are not un-common.

    I can understand why people think its just cynical SIMI talk to put down UK imports but the reality is so many pranged cars ended up over here from the UK its unreal.

    Just at the height of the plastic boom ( 06-08 ) stuff like this was flying in from the UK auctions, in particular prestige stuff so Audis, Mercs and wanna be posh like Passat diesels etc. I would really be afraid to touch an 03 / 04/ 05 UK import because so many of them were clocked nevermind damage like this.

    OP all I can say is you're not alone.


  • #47
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    voxpop wrote: »
    Is this the car? How can they even sell that, surely there is some legal requirement for the car to be safe.

    There is. Section 13, Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 prohibits the sale of dangerous vehicles to an unsuspecting consumer. The consumer must be told it's dangerous before sale.

    (2) Without prejudice to any other condition or warranty, in every contract for the sale of a motor vehicle (except a contract in which the buyer is a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) there is an implied condition that at the time of delivery of the vehicle under the contract it is free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.

    (3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—
    ( a ) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and
    ( b ) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and
    ( c ) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.

    (4) Save in a case in which the implied condition as to freedom from defects referred to in subsection (2) is either not incorporated in the contract or has been effectively excluded from the contract pursuant to that subsection, in the case of every sale of a motor vehicle by a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles a certificate in writing in such form as the Minister may by regulations prescribe shall be given to the buyer by or on behalf of the seller to the effect that the vehicle is, at the time of delivery, free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.

    (5) Where an action is brought for breach of the implied condition referred to in subsection (2) by reason of a specific defect in a motor vehicle and a certificate complying with the requirements of this section is not proved to have been given, it shall be presumed unless the contrary is proved that the proven defect existed at the time of delivery.

    Limerick man wrote: »
    What if "they didn't know"... I'd assume if the authorised the repair maybe some action could be taken against them, but if the repair was previous to them having it, I wouldn't say alot could be done...
    A "didn't know" is no defense, as per 4 above, they're supposed to declare it in writing as being safe.
    And if there's a complaint, it's up to the dealer to prove the car was safe when he sold it.


  • #48
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    I've seen so much of this crap come in from the UK, really cars like this are not un-common.

    I can understand why people think its just cynical SIMI talk to put down UK imports but the reality is so many pranged cars ended up over here from the UK its unreal.

    I can completely understand that and, the way things are handled currently, it's far too easy to crash a car in the UK and then export it to Ireland and magically get a clean bill of health again.

    There definitely needs to be something done to ensure cars coming over here and not write-offs that are being resold.

    With all that being said, when SIMI are having all the hard work done for them, and handed to them on a plate... why the hell are they doing nothing?


  • #49
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    Vertakill wrote: »
    I
    With all that being said, when SIMI are having all the hard work done for them, and handed to them on a plate... why the hell are they doing nothing?


    Because every time they do mention something people just say its the " Big Boys " trying to look after themselves ....... which they are by pointing out the sh!te that was being imported in here.

    More and more horror stories are coming out all over the place at the moment, I suppose the SIMI doesnt really feel the need to say anything ( Not that im talking on their behalf or anything )


  • #50
    Big Nasty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    Because every time they do mention something people just say its the " Big Boys " trying to look after themselves ....... which they are by pointing out the sh!te that was being imported in here.

    More and more horror stories are coming out all over the place at the moment, I suppose the SIMI doesnt really feel the need to say anything ( Not that im talking on their behalf or anything )

    On that note, SIMI and many of their members are forever complaining about 'imports', 'clocked cars', 'damaged cars', 'yellow reg's', and 'roadside sellers' ruining their members good name and harming the trade. On the other hand they are also preaching about buying with confidence from dealers you can trust, approved dealers, etc. Fair enough points but their members should practice what is preached if they are a SIMI member.

    They can't have their cake and eat it!


  • #51
    robbie99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭robbie99


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    I've seen so much of this crap come in from the UK, really cars like this are not un-common.

    I can understand why people think its just cynical SIMI talk to put down UK imports but the reality is so many pranged cars ended up over here from the UK its unreal.

    Just at the height of the plastic boom ( 06-08 ) stuff like this was flying in from the UK auctions, in particular prestige stuff so Audis, Mercs and wanna be posh like Passat diesels etc. I would really be afraid to touch an 03 / 04/ 05 UK import because so many of them were clocked nevermind damage like this.

    OP all I can say is you're not alone.

    Does anyone know if a cartell report shows the original UK reg? Would a cartell report identify if a car was crash repaired here in Ireland? And would a hpi check identify it if it was crashed and repaired in the UK?


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