SSFIV Tier List

PPC · 14-05-2010 9:39am #1

From http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/5/13/iplaywinner-may-2010-super-street-fighter-4-tier-list.html

The list was compiled using top US players.

K.O.Kiki · 14-05-2010 9:42am

Abel in 3rd?
Dudley & Cody in C-tier?

Riiiiiiiight...

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 9:55am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

(It IS the first tier list, though, to be fair.)

animaX · 14-05-2010 9:55am

Rufus on top?! Seriously?

Now i still get top tier abuse despite loyally sticking with my main :pac:

Edit: "list was compiled using top US players". In other words, Justin Wong has biased the hell out of it with his rufus

PPC · 14-05-2010 9:56am

Filipino Champ said it would be updated every month after tourneys, so it should balance out within a few months.

A-Trak · 14-05-2010 10:13am

animaX wrote: »

Rufus on top?! Seriously?

The list doesn't lie Terry, you knew who to main even before the game was released didn't you, DIDNT YOU!

FutureGuy · 14-05-2010 10:24am

Dan last...joke.

Makes me want to play him more. Saiyko ftw.

Sisko · 14-05-2010 11:00am

Hahahahahahaaha aaaaaah Terry theres just no escape for you is there.

I remember putting 'top tier whore' on your title in the super launch interview video and thinking "ah this is getting old now and sure he's talking about rufus here so its not even gonna make sense to anyone new watching this....screw it I can't think of anything else.. "

But now it amusingly fits. Poor terry lol.

Seriously though, what a mental list. I mean....wow.

A-Trak · 14-05-2010 11:01am

animaX wrote: »

Edit: "list was compiled using top US players". In other words, Justin Wong has biased the hell out of it with his rufus

So Mike Ross is why Honda's 2nd tier as well, cos they've not given him a single buff at all in Super.

Sisko · 14-05-2010 11:17am

6 - 4 to ibuki against sagat.

From what little experience I've had so far with ibuki myself, this looks quite right actually.

I just don't feel that pressure when I'm against him that I would as other characters.

Ibuki's slide even goes under LOW tiger shots (her kick slide not talking about neck breaker)

Of course if I make a mistake and **** up an input sagat rapes her health bar. You really have to be on the ball with her. Keep a cool head.

chopperbyrne · 14-05-2010 11:25am

Apparently Adon only has three good matches in the whole game. I think this tier list can be taken with a whole shaker of salt.

bush · 14-05-2010 11:33am

I think adon looks terrible. Its weird they rate blanka high still. He got no good buffs and they took stuff away from him. One match I think is wrong from a quick look is cody. Cody owns blanka.

Sisko · 14-05-2010 11:35am

the list is crazy , be interesting to see what the japanese come up with.

chopperbyrne · 14-05-2010 11:38am

It will take months for any kind of realistic tier list to appear and even then it'll have mistakes. Didn't one of the last SF IV lists have Honda going over Fei Long, when any Honda player will tell you that match is an uphill struggle all the way.

Sairus · 14-05-2010 12:00pm

Ah, Rose, Makoto and Vega in D and bottom of C Tiers, I sure know how to pick my mains.

Orim · 14-05-2010 12:02pm

Does anyone want to make a tier list?

I was going to put this one up on the website but then I was thinking it would be cool if we had our own tier list. However I cannot get my head around it at the moment, so if someone else wants to volunteer that'd be great.

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 12:05pm

Orim wrote: »

Does anyone want to make a tier list?

I was going to put this one up on the website but then I was thinking it would be cool if we had our own tier list. However I cannot get my head around it at the moment, so if someone else wants to volunteer that'd be great.

_____________ Rest of Cast

Guile(no glasses) 0-10

Guile(sunglasses) 10-0

Scavenger XIII · 14-05-2010 12:05pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Guile 11-0
(Glasses)

Corrected that for you.

Dunjohn · 14-05-2010 12:06pm

There was speculation before release that Dan might - gasp - lift off the bottom. Phew. Dodged a bullet there.

Seems his Saikyu training is finally starting to influence Sakura's style, too. That kid always was slow.

Sisko · 14-05-2010 12:08pm

It'd be amusing to make our own list for the craic , it'd really be just for fun type thing.

I'd nominate azza and dreddy to head up the whole thing, with input from our higher level guys about their specific characters and how they feel about them.

It'd need its own thread and a deadline otherwise we'd end up discussing things for ages.

It'd be amusing to see how right or wrong we'd get it. I think it could be good fun.

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 12:09pm

Orim wrote: »

Does anyone want to make a tier list?

I was going to put this one up on the website but then I was thinking it would be cool if we had our own tier list. However I cannot get my head around it at the moment, so if someone else wants to volunteer that'd be great.

Seriously, we don't have enough players playing each character to an appropriate level to do our own. It'd be total guess work.

I could tell you my initial responses to all the characters v guile if you like.

seantimmins · 14-05-2010 12:10pm

cant believe Ken is so far down aswel!

Sisko · 14-05-2010 12:10pm

Yeah this is why I said it'd only be just for a laugh really.

chopperbyrne · 14-05-2010 12:12pm

It's not possible at the moment as we don't have enough experience against every character.

FoamyMushroom · 14-05-2010 12:19pm

I wana see the Jap's tier list...

The Hound · 14-05-2010 12:52pm

The tier list is a joke. Rufus is definitely high but not top imo. Sagat surely is still a top tier, its just the americans dont have any good Sagat mains that are good. The tier list is based of justin wong and what he thinks, ha.

evad_lhorg · 14-05-2010 1:24pm

is this list not just a Justin Wong tier list really as he is probably the top US player?

edit: I see someone else already said this.

But how is this compiled really? What do the numbers mean?

Orim · 14-05-2010 1:29pm

evad_lhorg wrote: »

is this list not just a Justin Wong tier list really as he is probably the top US player?

edit: I see someone else already said this.

But how is this compiled really? What do the numbers mean?

The numbers are based on how many matches each character would win out of ten, assuming that both players are high level and equal.

Speed Boat · 14-05-2010 1:45pm

Abel top tier.

Nice to see and all but I don't think he'll stay there!

Ramza · 14-05-2010 1:45pm

How could we possibly come up with a tier list? :pac:

Yeah as far as tiers go anyway, I said the other day and before that Dud won't pass upper mid imo, maybe a little higher but that's it as far as I can see

Just main top

Owwmykneecap · 14-05-2010 2:50pm

Lol May, Lol Americans.

Ramza · 14-05-2010 4:23pm

Here is your tier list, it's scarily accurate

:pac:

Threw it together in two minutes lol

Azza · 14-05-2010 4:44pm

I have like wise compiled a 3S tier list in the same amount of time.

Ramza · 14-05-2010 4:48pm

LMAO good twist on it there Azza :pac:

The Hound · 14-05-2010 5:12pm

Does everyone still think Sagat is Top of the tier list? I still think he's up there but not at the apex of it. Maybe Akuma, Balrog, Ryu and Dictator are top imo. Throw Sagat in the mix there as well.

Ramza · 14-05-2010 5:13pm

Nah I just threw it together for laughs Hound, Sagat would get the most comical response etc

bush · 14-05-2010 5:26pm

Blanka is top

UberPrinny_Baal · 14-05-2010 8:12pm

*Squints at colours*

Does Dee Jay have his own tier?

Burning Eclipse · 14-05-2010 9:09pm

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

*Squints at colours*

Does Dee Jay have his own tier?

Yup!! Ibuki and Guile too if you squint enough!!

GorySnake · 14-05-2010 9:37pm

So my old main is #1 (I thought Rufus just got damage nerfs and U2 sucks?) and my new main is in C. List is BS, Dee Jay is probably among the lower half of the new characters and yet he's above Dudley and Cody. And T.Hawk way up there, and Abel...Did they pull this list out of their asses?

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 9:40pm

GorySnake wrote: »

So my old main is #1 (I thought Rufus just got damage nerfs and U2 sucks?) and my new main is in C. List is BS, Dee Jay is probably among the lower half of the new characters and yet he's above Dudley and Cody. And T.Hawk way up there, and Abel...Did they pull this list out of their asses?

It's based on US high level players, so I reckon people like Wong and Ross, as has already been mentioned, are throwing it off.

GorySnake · 14-05-2010 9:43pm

Its pointless having a tier list this early, there's been no big Super Tournaments so everyone is still inexperienced at the game.

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 9:45pm

GorySnake wrote: »

Its pointless having a tier list this early, there's been no big Super Tournaments so everyone is still inexperienced at the game.

Thats the general consensus as far as I can see.

Slugs · 14-05-2010 9:48pm

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

Azza · 14-05-2010 10:01pm

For Bison I would rate the old matchs ups so far as.

Abel: 5:5 (not familar with this match up)
Akuma: 5:5 (think this could swing Bison's way over time)
Balrog: 5:5 (pretty much the same as SF 4)
Blanka: 6:4 (easier for Bison than SF 4, Ultra 2 punishes Blanka Ball on block)
Cammy: 5:5 (Balanced now that Cammy's damage as been nerfed and Bison has better cannon spike punisher)
Chun-Li: 5:5 (Bison can get in easier and damage output is less in favour of Chun)
C.Viper: 6:4 (Same as SF 4, Bisons pokes own her)
Dan: 6:4
Dhalsim: 6:4 (Sim's damage output is better but can't zone Bison well)
El Feurte: 6:4 (Slightly easier for Elf but sill in Bison's favour)
E.Honda: 4.5:5.5 (Each character has same problems in this match up, but Honda has better damage output and a more viable ultra)
Fei-Long: 5:5 (Same as SF 4)
Gen 6.5:3.5 (Gen looks worse than vanilla, worse wake up game and little to compensate)
Gouken: 5.5:4.5 (Bison's new stuff gives him more of an edge)
Guile: 3.5:6.5 (slightly easier for Bison, but still very hard to get through Guiles zoning game)
Ken: 5:5 (Ken has better footsies than Ryu and is less reliant on fireball zoning so is less effected by Bison's ultra 2, has other tools to use when he can't use fireballs)
Rufus: 6.5:3.5 (Can't get by Bison's zoning game and does less damage has less health)
Ryu: 5.5:4.5 (Ryu is boned once Bison gets ultra 2, Bisons footsies own Ryu, and Ryu does less damage now)
Sagat: 5:5 (Tricky to get in on him still but damage output no where near what it was, Bison's ultra 2 shuts down his fireball game allowing Bison to use his superior footsies)
Sakura: 6:4 (Slightly better for Sakura but still well in Bisons favour, can keep her out and run away from her)
Seth: 6:4 (Ultra 2 and EX.Pyscho give Bison the edge, Seth no longer has Ultra 1 trap)
Vega: 6:4 (Vega is slightly better but not enough to make it even)
Zangief 4:6 (Bison still can't zone him properly, can't effectively anti air him but its better for Bison, harder for Gief to build meter and Gief has a bit less health)

I'm not familar enough with the new characters to give a rating on them yet. I don't think any of them will beat Bison and if they do it will be very marginal.
I be pretty confident in saying Bison beats Makoto.

Orim · 14-05-2010 10:08pm

Slugs wrote: »

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

The tier list is based on how many matches each character would win out of ten, assuming that both players are high level and equal. Characters with a higher amount of good matches are placed higher.

They are a somewhat useful indicator of a characters general strength but a number of factors make them useless at the same time.

a) It boils down to opinion at the end of the day.
b) It doesn't take into account that a character can be high tier based on a number of good matches against bad characters but be very bad against the good characters.

As is always said pick who you want and work with them. You'll enjoy the game more and with work any character can win.

Azza · 14-05-2010 10:17pm

slugs wrote:

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

A tier list is decided by looking at the match up ratings of each character and then adding the number of wins each character scores against another. The higher the score the higher the character will place on tier list, the higher up the tier list the better the character is considered.

The match up ratings are usually the general consensus among communties on how balanced the match ups are. They normally take a while to evlove and become more accurate over time. Still tier lists always remain issues of debate.

So if 2 players are consider even in skill and one player picks Sagat and the other picks Vega, in a 10 match series, the Sagat player would be expected to win 6 times while the Vega player just 4. A match up is consider even if its rated at 5:5.

In SF4 Sagat had many 7:3 and 6:4 match ups with no matches that he is at at disadvantage and only a few where he was 5:5. That was why he was considered the best character in the game. His sucess in tournaments in Japan and the high number of Sagats in the Japanese arcade rankins back this up. Ryu and Akuma where generally considered around second and third again tournament results and arcade rankings back this up. It becomes less clear cut after that until you reach the very bottom of the list.

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 10:43pm

For Guile...

Abel: 5:5 Need to explore how the new ultras affect this. Seems even right now.
Akuma: 4:6 Hurricane stops air fireballs, however Guile still doesn't have an answer to Akuma's zoning game.
Balrog: 4:6 Doesn't seem to be any different to 4 yet.
Blanka: 3:7 Slide = no boom. Still Guile's worst match up imo.
Cammy: 7:3 Quicker booms, less damage from Cammy, still no overhead, I suspect hurricane will have punish applications.
Chun-Li: 5:5 WITH ultra 1 for Chun. Don't know why Chun players are picking ultra 2 in this match, Guile can zone all day long. Having alot of long stalemate matches.
C.Viper: 5:5 Down and back to ex boom beats alot of Vipers stuff. She can pound the ground all she likes, Guile can crouch and block all day long. Owns Guile up close. Need more experience though.
Dan: 6:4 Not much change.
Dhalsim: 3:7 Sim had the advantage here anyway before the damage boost. a good zoning game is a total uphill struggle for Guile, and Shangrila means you have to be careful after a teleport, which guile never had to before.
El Feurte: 6:4 Up and back still beats Fuerte.
E.Honda: 8:2 Guile's best game. Increased boom speed is a total nightmare for Honda.
Fei-Long No experience.
Gen 5:5 Seems 50/50 so far. Not much experience yet.
Gouken: 5:5 Goukens old fireball advantage less important with Hurricane/ new boom speed.
Bison 6:4 Bison's U2 not the nightmare it is for other characters, but still in Guile's favour.
Ken: 5:5 Not much experience but a tough zoning game seems to beat him out. In close Ken kills though.
Rufus: 7:3 Need more experience but flash beating dive kick changes this in Guile's favour. Also, U2 is slower than boom recovery at more than point blank range.
Ryu 5:5 Even. Ryu's live in fear of new backfist and bazooka hurricane. Tatsu is still a huge pain for Guile though.
Sagat: 4:6 Still in Sagat's favour, but now you can make a mistake or 2 with the new damage nerfs.
Sakura: 5:5 Anecdotally, Won some lose some.
Seth: 6:4 Seth gotta be careful with his jumps when Hurricane is charged.
Vega: 6:4 Guile's still in control I feel.
Zangief 4:6 U2 for Gief grounds Guile, reducing alot of his zoning options.

New guys... need more practice with them all.

Deejay 7:3 Pretty much Deejay is old Guile. Can't keep up with the booms.
T Hawk 7:3 Just can't get in on Guile's zoning.
Adon 6:4 FK seems to stop Jaguar anything well timed.
Cody 5:5 Seems to be ok if guile can keep him out.
Guy 4:6 Only character who can maintain air superiority on Guile. Booms are good to stop him though.
Ibuki 6:4 Down and back stops neck breaker and she doesn't have an answer to boom really.
Makoto 7:3 Can't do anything really.
Dudley 5:5 If Guile can maintain the distance he wins. Dudley can pretty much dizzy and do 60% damage with one in though.
Juri 4:6 Pretty good at punishing boom, for once

Hakan 7:3 Seriously?

[/QUOTE]

Owwmykneecap · 14-05-2010 11:04pm

Slugs wrote: »

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

First off, and remember this always, they are opinion, they are subjective and often, they are varying levels of bull ****. especially early on in a games life.

They are derived from the record of "top" players fighting other "top" players.
The point is to give an "all other things being equal" impression of which character is the best, or better in any given situation.
The numbers represent how often any character should win against another if 10 matches are played, with both players being experts.

Slugs · 14-05-2010 11:10pm

Thanks for the explanation guys. Very helpful.

But that still leaves me with a problem. They're flawed... I mean realistically, as far as I can discern anyway, and I'm a newbie, so I am more then likely wrong, but aren't the top tier at that level due to popularity as a character rather than actual skill and mastery. I mean I know Sagat was meant to destroy, but I've seen decent Sagat players get mangled against some of the lower tier characters. What I'm basically trying to say is in a group of 100, you're more likely to come across players who stick with the top tiers because they've been told they're the best characters, rather than mastering a low tier... I can't even describe what I'm trying to say... Hopefully someone can translate, or I'll think about it and come back :P

Doctor DooM · 14-05-2010 11:17pm

Slugs wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation guys. Very helpful.

But that still leaves me with a problem. They're flawed... I mean realistically, as far as I can discern anyway, and I'm a newbie, so I am more then likely wrong, but aren't the top tier at that level due to popularity as a character rather than actual skill and mastery. I mean I know Sagat was meant to destroy, but I've seen decent Sagat players get mangled against some of the lower tier characters. What I'm basically trying to say is in a group of 100, you're more likely to come across players who stick with the top tiers because they've been told they're the best characters, rather than mastering a low tier... I can't even describe what I'm trying to say... Hopefully someone can translate, or I'll think about it and come back :P

Yes... but we all know this

Tier lists must always be taken with a pinch of salt. They're a kind of reference point, nothing more.

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