A "Live Abroad" social welfare scheme?

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 06:13AM #1

This might seem like a joke but it's not. What if the Dept of Social Welfare launched a scheme enabling those on a social welfare payment and in reciept of rent allowance to basically "live abroad" for a year or more. Take a couple on say €325 per week on a social welfare payment and say another €120 per week from rent allowance, roughly €450 a week. Now under such a "live abroad" program that would be reduced to say €225 per week. An immediate saving of 50% for the State. Now replicate this tens of thousands of times - that's a lot of money saved. Run it on a year to year basis.

Pay people weekly or monthly into an Irish bank account and let them take it our wherever in the world they are. This could save hundreds of millions yearly. I know it's "thinking outside the box" but when a country is in such a dire economic situation that is what's needed. I think people would jump at the chance, especially say those in their 20's/30's. Folks could move to eastern Europe or Asia or north Africa or wherever they wish and live a comfortable life for approx €1,000 a month. Of course if it was outside the EU visa requirement issues might come into play. But there are plenty of eastern European EU States!

Ireland would also get goodwill for this especially from eastern EU countries whose economies would benefit from an influx of extra revenue. Anyway, just an idea that I thought I'd throw out there. What do you think: totally crazy or a good idea? Thanks.

cee_jay · 19-05-2010 07:12AM

Not a state benefits issue - moving thread. Sorry mods if it is not suitable here.

cee_jay · 19-05-2010 07:13AM

My thinking on this would be why should the government give people money so they can spend it in another country, hence worsening our economy even more?

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 07:20AM

cAr0l wrote: »

My thinking on this would be why should the government give people money so they can spend it in another country, hence worsening our economy even more?

I wonder would it worsen the economy as the State would be making an immediate 50% saving? It was just an idea I wanted to throw out there. For example I think 1,000 couples under such a scheme would save the State about 10 million euros a year.

Nijmegen · 19-05-2010 07:26AM

vanla sighs wrote: »

I wonder would it worsen the economy as the State would be making an immediate 50% saving? It was just an idea I wanted to throw out there. For example I think 1,000 couples under such a scheme would save the State about 10 million euros a year.

You're missing the point that the money spent from social welfare is spent, usually, in Ireland. It's a state economic stimulus for the economy, and if you cut the amount of money spent in the state by 100% then you kill that economic activity, which is likely worth more than the saving you make if that leads to further job losses, more people on dole, less VAT, etc.

OS119 · 19-05-2010 07:36AM

vanla sighs wrote: »

...Ireland would also get goodwill for this especially from eastern EU countries whose economies would benefit from an influx of extra revenue...

i'm sure that lots of countries (also in recession) would welcome large quantities of extra patients in their healthcare systems, extra people to be policed, people who don't speak the language and have no concept of the culture, and who are competing with their own populations for what jobs there are.

and to make these 'visitors' even more attractive, none of them will have paid a cent in tax to those countries.

no, Irelands' unemployed are Irelands' problem.

danbohan · 19-05-2010 07:48AM

OS119 wrote: »

i'm sure that lots of countries (also in recession) would welcome large quantities of extra patients in their healthcare systems, extra people to be policed, people who don't speak the language and have no concept of the culture, and who are competing with their own populations for what jobs there are.

and to make these 'visitors' even more attractive, none of them will have paid a cent in tax to those countries.

no, Irelands' unemployed are Irelands' problem.

did the english not do something like that in 80s/90s , is that not reason we had so many ''new age '' here then

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 08:12AM

OS119 wrote: »

i'm sure that lots of countries (also in recession) would welcome large quantities of extra patients in their healthcare systems, extra people to be policed, people who don't speak the language and have no concept of the culture, and who are competing with their own populations for what jobs there are.

and to make these 'visitors' even more attractive, none of them will have paid a cent in tax to those countries.

no, Irelands' unemployed are Irelands' problem.

Not having paid a cent of tax, not quite, Irish folks would be spending their money in whatever country they are in. VAT etc etc. As for healthcare, there's the European E111 scheme already in place. As for "don't speak the language", I've been to eastern Europe and further afield many times, you always pick up a few words and you always meet folks who speak English. As for jobs those Irish people wouldn't need to work.

OS119 · 19-05-2010 08:13AM

danbohan wrote: »

did the english not do something like that in 80s/90s , is that not reason we had so many ''new age '' here then

don't think so - certainly UK pensioners can move wherever the hell they want and still claim their state pension - but i don't think there was ever any government encouragement for them to do so.

i know that some UK local councils have done a similar thing internally - a 'if you're going to be unemployed, you may as well be unemployed somewhere nice' policy - and shifted folk outside their area to old seaside resorts. initially everyone was happy, the unemployed get to live next to the sea instead of some ****-arse council estate, councils gets their unemployed statistics down, and the hoteliers make a fortune on DSS payments when usually they'd get bugger all. however the 'lucky' seaside resorts - Blackpool, Weston-Super-Mare, Southport and Great Yarmouth for example - found themselves going downhill, and that their main summer trade was significantly reduced because families didn't fancy spending two weeks in the summer in a holding pen for the Jeremy Kyle show!

so yes, 'ghetto-isation' became a problem. can't possibly imagine it could be better if the 'incomers' didn't speak a word of the local language...

cson · 19-05-2010 08:24AM

So we basically sugar daddy the unemployed telling them "here's a €1,000 a month, go off and enjoy your holidays"?

Where do I sign on [on?]? :P

Welease · 19-05-2010 08:28AM

vanla sighs wrote: »

Not having paid a cent of tax, not quite, Irish folks would be spending their money in whatever country they are in. VAT etc etc. As for healthcare, there's the European E111 scheme already in place. As for "don't speak the language", I've been to eastern Europe and further afield many times, you always pick up a few words and you always meet folks who speak English. As for jobs those Irish people wouldn't need to work.

So we get to pay for a free holiday for those who have no intention of looking for work?

Pete4779 · 19-05-2010 08:29AM

vanla sighs wrote: »

This might seem like a joke but it's not. What if the Dept of Social Welfare launched a scheme enabling those on a social welfare payment and in reciept of rent allowance to basically "live abroad" for a year or more. Take a couple on say €325 per week on a social welfare payment and say another €120 per week from rent allowance, roughly €450 a week. Now under such a "live abroad" program that would be reduced to say €225 per week. An immediate saving of 50% for the State. Now replicate this tens of thousands of times - that's a lot of money saved. Run it on a year to year basis.

Pay people weekly or monthly into an Irish bank account and let them take it our wherever in the world they are. This could save hundreds of millions yearly. I know it's "thinking outside the box" but when a country is in such a dire economic situation that is what's needed. I think people would jump at the chance, especially say those in their 20's/30's.

AMAZING idea. But I have a better one: call it the "Get Less Money From Welfare" scheme. Instead of paying this couple what amounts a €29,000 a year gross salary (http://taxcalc.eu/), just half the welfare anyway, and avoid the Cirrus fees.

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 11:00AM

Welease wrote: »

So we get to pay for a free holiday for those who have no intention of looking for work?

Well, there are no jobs, that is the simple reality of it. And there may not be for a few years to come. You can keep people here in Ireland on the dole or disability or whatever else and pay them 100% of it or you could offer the alternative and pay those who wish to avail of it only 50%.

cson · 19-05-2010 11:11AM

Where are you getting 50% from? Or did you just pull it out of a hat?

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 11:13AM

cson wrote: »

So we basically sugar daddy the unemployed telling them "here's a €1,000 a month, go off and enjoy your holidays"?

Where do I sign on [on?]? :P

Lol, well it wouldn't exactly be a holiday, it would basically simply living abroad for a year or more. A couple wouldn't have much of a "lets go wild" holiday on €225 a week - even in eastern Europe. But yeah, sure, instead of paying them the €900 a month abroad just pay them the €1,800 a month at home in Ireland instead

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 11:20AM

cson wrote: »

Where are you getting 50% from? Or did you just pull it out of a hat?

That would be an ecumenical matter :rolleyes:

50% would be a "happy medium" - not too much, not too little. It would enable a couple to have a relatively comfortable life without turning the whole thing into a free holiday. I've lived and worked in eastern Europe and a couple would not be having a "holiday" on €225 a week. But they would have a reasonable standard of living. While at the same time the Irish State saves millions on the social welfare budget.

Welease · 19-05-2010 12:14PM

vanla sighs wrote: »

Well, there are no jobs, that is the simple reality of it. And there may not be for a few years to come. You can keep people here in Ireland on the dole or disability or whatever else and pay them 100% of it or you could offer the alternative and pay those who wish to avail of it only 50%.

There are jobs.. there is a shortage of jobs, but there are jobs out there. People should be using the time to either seek employment, or gain the skills the need in order to seek employment.. They should not be paid for a free year long holiday abroad.

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 12:43PM

Welease wrote: »

There are jobs.. there is a shortage of jobs, but there are jobs out there. People should be using the time to either seek employment, or gain the skills the need in order to seek employment.. They should not be paid for a free year long holiday abroad.

There are not jobs or training places for all who want them. We have something like 400,000 unemployed - there are not 400,000 jobs or training course places available. And do you seriously think that people who come out of FAS training courses these days find employment? Why do you view it as a holiday? It would simply be an attempt to reduce the social welfare budget, nothing more. Using your reasoning anyone who is unemployed in Ireland is also on a "holiday", that is simply not the case.

Welease · 19-05-2010 12:50PM

vanla sighs wrote: »

There are not jobs or training places for all who want them. We have something like 400,000 unemployed - there are not 400,000 jobs or training course places available. And do you seriously think that people who come out of FAS training courses these days find employment? Why do you view it as a holiday? It would simply be an attempt to reduce the social welfare budget, nothing more. Using your reasoning anyone who is unemployed in Ireland is also on a "holiday", that is simply not the case.

No.. my reasoning is not that those on social welfare are on a holiday, but they are supposed to be looking and available for work (or in training). You plan specifically stated they would not look for work.. so yes it is essentially a holiday at taxpayers expense.

I'm not attacking you or your attempt to think outside the box, in fact it is to be applauded, but there are multiple other ways of cutting the social welfare bill that don't involve allowing people to vacation abroad at our expense.

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 01:27PM

Welease wrote: »

No.. my reasoning is not that those on social welfare are on a holiday, but they are supposed to be looking and available for work (or in training). You plan specifically stated they would not look for work.. so yes it is essentially a holiday at taxpayers expense.

I'm not attacking you or your attempt to think outside the box, in fact it is to be applauded, but there are multiple other ways of cutting the social welfare bill that don't involve allowing people to vacation abroad at our expense.

The supposed to be looking for employment bit is a joke, there are in essence no jobs, definetly not 400,00 jobs - nor are there hundreds of thousands of training course vacancies. And even if there were hundreds of thousands of training course vacancies those who did them would most likely be back on the dole after they finish.

This option would cut the social welfare in half for those who took up the offer, that's all. It wouldn't be permanent, it wouldn't be compulsory, it would provide "breathing room" for the Dept of Social Welfare (or protection or whatever they're calling it now) budget.

As for there being "multiple other ways of cutting the social welfare bill", there might well be but that means further welfare cuts, not an option I'd support. Not when there would be an option such as I outlined staring government in the face. Yes, it is "outside the box" but then whenever has Ireland thought outside the box, lol. Government couldn't take a creative approach if it landed in their lap.

Welease · 19-05-2010 03:08PM

vanla sighs wrote: »

The supposed to be looking for employment bit is a joke, there are in essence no jobs, definetly not 400,00 jobs - nor are there hundreds of thousands of training course vacancies. And even if there were hundreds of thousands of training course vacancies those who did them would most likely be back on the dole after they finish.

This option would cut the social welfare in half for those who took up the offer, that's all. It wouldn't be permanent, it wouldn't be compulsory, it would provide "breathing room" for the Dept of Social Welfare (or protection or whatever they're calling it now) budget.

As for there being "multiple other ways of cutting the social welfare bill", there might well be but that means further welfare cuts, not an option I'd support. Not when there would be an option such as I outlined staring government in the face. Yes, it is "outside the box" but then whenever has Ireland thought outside the box, lol. Government couldn't take a creative approach if it landed in their lap.

I just think you are making a lot of assumptions which may or (imho) may not be true.

You say tens of thousands would take up the offer -
I don't believe this is true.. what about those who own homes in neg. equity here.. they can't sell up and move.. so they will need to continue to provide mortgage payments and rent a new place wherever.

You say other countries would welcome our unemployed -
Unlikely.. those EU countries would not like an influx of people who may not initially be a financial burden but could (and would) take jobs if they became unavailable thus putting local people on the dole.
Would they be welcome if we paid our folks 50% more than their unemployed people and there was in influx into their country? I doubt it.

You don't mention any costs to this -
How do people sign on?, so we can minimise fraud.. How do we know they are not receiving income abroad?.. All measures you propose will cost money.. And remember we currently pay child benefit to all parents because it is deemed too expensive to means test, even though our government would have access to the declared taxable income of everyone in this country. They would not have access to that information for people who moved abroad.
All this extra administration will take more people in social welfare to administer, they need to be paid for.. and run the gauntlet of our beloved unions getting this added.

Voluntary -
The problem with voluntary scheme's is they can take a lot of money to implement, and if they are not attractive enough poeple wont subscribe.. I'm not sure people will give up a our high social welfare to live at 50% income in eastern europe...

Moving -
Half this country seem to think moving to London for a paid job is a step to far. Moving to eastern Europe for 50% dole is probably way beyond what they want..

etc etc.

vanla sighs · 19-05-2010 03:45PM

Welease wrote: »

I just think you are making a lot of assumptions which may or (imho) may not be true.

You say tens of thousands would take up the offer -
I don't believe this is true.. what about those who own homes in neg. equity here.. they can't sell up and move.. so they will need to continue to provide mortgage payments and rent a new place wherever.

You say other countries would welcome our unemployed -
Unlikely.. those EU countries would not like an influx of people who may not initially be a financial burden but could (and would) take jobs if they became unavailable thus putting local people on the dole.
Would they be welcome if we paid our folks 50% more than their unemployed people and there was in influx into their country? I doubt it.

You don't mention any costs to this -
How do people sign on?, so we can minimise fraud.. How do we know they are not receiving income abroad?.. All measures you propose will cost money.. And remember we currently pay child benefit to all parents because it is deemed too expensive to means test, even though our government would have access to the declared taxable income of everyone in this country. They would not have access to that information for people who moved abroad.
All this extra administration will take more people in social welfare to administer, they need to be paid for.. and run the gauntlet of our beloved unions getting this added.

Voluntary -
The problem with voluntary scheme's is they can take a lot of money to implement, and if they are not attractive enough poeple wont subscribe.. I'm not sure people will give up a our high social welfare to live at 50% income in eastern europe...

Moving -
Half this country seem to think moving to London for a paid job is a step to far. Moving to eastern Europe for 50% dole is probably way beyond what they want..

etc etc.

It is of course simply an assumption that tens of thousands would take up such a scheme but I believe they would.....especially those in their 20's and perhaps 30's who don't have a mortgage etc.

I'd say eastern European countries would welcome the extra revenues from Irish people - after all didn't we welcome the tens of thousands of east Europeans to Ireland

Call it pay back, lol...........only joking. The EU is all about the free movement of people, so....MOVE, lol. Lets embrace the EU spirit and all that, hahaha. But seriously, that is basically what the EU aims to be one big happy family, one big economic political union. This idea does just that

How would people sign on? They wouldn't really need to - they'd be on a scheme that was fixed on a year to year basis. Of course anyone at any time could say feck it and come back to Ireland and sign back on. How do we know they aren't getting an income abroad from working? It's unlikely they would unless they were teaching English, and hell if they were who cares, they are still saving the State millions. Take the same approach as say the BTEA scheme - folks can work while on it if they wish to as far as I know without affecting their basic BTEA payments. Just apply the same principle.

Would it really be so difficult to know who is on such a scheme or not, I don't think so. Of course this is all what if's and maybe's but interesting nonetheless. The government would probably never implement such a scheme, pity because it would save A LOT of money but that's Ireland for ya!:(

3DataModem · 19-05-2010 03:51PM

It is much better for the country if the government pays 1000 to someone who spends it in Ireland, than 500 (or even 250) to someone who spends it abroad.

Ever heard of the money multiplier?

Look it up.

Banned Account · 19-05-2010 03:57PM

We could just shoot all the sick people - that would be a saving wouldn't it?

Welease · 19-05-2010 04:12PM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

We could just shoot all the sick people - that would be a saving wouldn't it?

I don't think the OP was suggesting anything of the sort, and given his suggestion was always voluntary it could be viewed as more pro-people than a lot of the other suggestions here.

View · 19-05-2010 10:41PM

vanla sighs wrote: »

This might seem like a joke but it's not. What if the Dept of Social Welfare launched a scheme enabling those on a social welfare payment and in reciept of rent allowance to basically "live abroad" for a year or more.

It is probably intended to facilitate peoples' right to look for work elsewhere in the EU. Details of which are:

JOB-SEEKING

If you are unemployed, you have the right to live in another EU country for a ‘reasonable period’ of time in order to look for a job. In the absence of a Community provision defining a ‘reasonable period’, most Member States are now taking this to be six months, though it is still three months in some Member States. You are advised to check the exact situation with the national authorities in the Member State in which you are looking for work. However, you can extend your stay if you can prove that you are still genuinely looking for a job and that you have a real chance of finding one (for example, after interviews or tests that you have yet to attend). You can register at employment agencies of your choice without having to meet any residence requirements, and you will be given the same help to find work as nationals of the country in question.

You may also continue, for up to three months, to draw any unemployment benefit you may have been receiving, provided you meet certain conditions. For example, if you have been drawing unemployment benefit in France you can continue to do so while looking for work in another Member State, provided you have been registered with the National Employment Agency (Agence Nationale pour l’Emploi — ANPE) for at least four weeks. The agency will issue you with form E 303, which you must fill in and take to the employment services in the country in which you are seeking work. However, if you do not find work and wish to retain your right to unemployment benefit, you must, within three months, return to France and register with the employment services.

Anyone looking for a job, or anyone who has found a job in another Member State, can use the EURES network, which was established by the European Commission and national employment departments. This network comprises 450 ‘eurocounsellors’ throughout the European Economic Area. These eurocounsellors are specially trained to provide information and advice and to find jobs for people. They can be contacted through employment agencies.

If you have found paid employment in any EU country, you have the right to leave your own country without going through any special formalities. You will simply need a valid identity card or passport. This right can be limited only for serious reasons linked to public order, public security or public health. For more information, see the factsheet on ‘Looking for work’.

Link is: here.

murraymarmalade · 19-05-2010 10:47PM

what the op failed to tell everyone is this scheme is valid for 90 days. you must nominate the post office you wish to have your money collected in.of course one could head to spain for a couple of months,take in the sun and return home.........my thoughts are,the very best of luck to anyone who does this.

happy job hunting on the costas ppl:D

lmimmfn · 20-05-2010 12:36AM

they did this in the late 80's/early 90's so i dont see why it wouldnt happen again, although it will really feck up the economy, not from losing doleheads, but from losing those recently qualified from uni etc.

vanla sighs · 20-05-2010 07:43AM

lmimmfn wrote: »

they did this in the late 80's/early 90's so i dont see why it wouldnt happen again, although it will really feck up the economy, not from losing doleheads, but from losing those recently qualified from uni etc.

Did they really? Huh and there was I thinking I had a novel, untried, brainstormer of an idea, lol. But I don't understand what you mean about losing those recently qualified from uni? How would you lose anyone on a scheme that runs on a year to year basis? If they stayed in Ireland you'd have to pay them full social welfare rates and rent allowance possibly but if they opted to go abroad for a year or two or three you'd only have to pay them 50% of their entitlement. A voluntary scheme of course. I'm sure many would jump at the chance. So, win, win.

Count Dooku · 21-05-2010 07:36AM

vanla sighs wrote: »

I'd say eastern European countries would welcome the extra revenues from Irish people

Yes, they will welcome
But 100,000 of irish property investors will be not able to pay their mortgages.
High rates of rent supplement is welfare for property investors, who are core voters for 3 main parties

irishh_bob · 21-05-2010 10:10AM

cAr0l wrote: »

My thinking on this would be why should the government give people money so they can spend it in another country, hence worsening our economy even more?

as if eastern europeans ( both working and unemployed ) were not sending home the bulk of what they recieve here anyway

danbohan · 22-05-2010 08:32PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

as if eastern europeans ( both working and unemployed ) were not sending home the bulk of what they recieve here anyway

yea id say the average polish on 196 euro per week is sending home 180 euro , cost living here is very cheap now !

irishh_bob · 22-05-2010 08:52PM

danbohan wrote: »

yea id say the average polish on 196 euro per week is sending home 180 euro , cost living here is very cheap now !

if you live ten to a two bed flat and your social life revolves around drinking cheap czech beer , 196 euro can go far

danbohan · 22-05-2010 08:58PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

if you live ten to a two bed flat and your social life revolves around drinking cheap czech beer , 196 euro can go far

yea ? lot 10 in 2 bedroom flat near you then ? , shhhhhhhhhhhhht them fornrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs , they caused all the problems in ds country , and now their not even drinking our beer too !

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 11:56PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

if you live ten to a two bed flat and your social life revolves around drinking cheap czech beer , 196 euro can go far

No racism there at all

dunsandin · 23-05-2010 01:30AM

I hired a new guy today, so there are jobs, you just have to look for them. Who moved my cheese? anybody?

DidierMc · 23-05-2010 01:32AM

dunsandin wrote: »

I hired a new guy today, so there are jobs, you just have to look for them. Who moved my cheese? anybody?

Are there 400,000 jobs?

dunsandin · 23-05-2010 12:03PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Are there 400,000 jobs?

NO.

Whats the fastest breed of tortoise?

I love these question and answer sessions Didier, but they do seem a little pointless. You're not a seven year old by any chance? When my lad was 7 he asked an awful lot of questions. Thirst for knowledge and all that, its a beautiful thing. Tiring though.:)

irishh_bob · 23-05-2010 01:22PM

DidierMc wrote: »

No racism there at all

correct , thier isnt

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 02:48PM

dunsandin wrote: »

NO.

Whats the fastest breed of tortoise?

I love these question and answer sessions Didier, but they do seem a little pointless. You're not a seven year old by any chance? When my lad was 7 he asked an awful lot of questions. Thirst for knowledge and all that, its a beautiful thing. Tiring though.:)

So because you "hired a guy" theres enough work out there for everyone? I think its you living in fantasy land.

dunsandin · 24-05-2010 05:15PM

DidierMc wrote: »

So because you "hired a guy" theres enough work out there for everyone? I think its you living in fantasy land.

Why dont you go hire one and see how easy it is? Instead of responding with infantile questions, why don't you go create a few jobs, then come back and see if your attitude is the same. Hurlers on the ditch are no use to anybody. If every small company in Ireland hired just one or 2 more staff, it would solve a lot of peoples problems. Dont moan about the darkness, light a candle, and all that.

BehindTheScenes · 24-05-2010 06:28PM

Something similar to this happened in the 80's. My Dad and Mam went to the U.S.A. with six months dole. From what my Dad tells me you weren't allowed to sign on for two years after that.

Apparently a load of people took it up. My parents' neighbours headed out to Greece on the same deal.

Not a bad deal really, the state saves and the citizen can if they wish start a new life elsewhere.

danbohan · 24-05-2010 08:17PM

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Something similar to this happened in the 80's. My Dad and Mam went to the U.S.A. with six months dole. From what my Dad tells me you weren't allowed to sign on for two years after that.

Apparently a load of people took it up. My parents' neighbours headed out to Greece on the same deal.

Not a bad deal really, the state saves and the citizen can if they wish start a new life elsewhere.

never heard of it in the 80s , maybe it was back payments ?, social welfare offices were no more efficient then than now

BehindTheScenes · 24-05-2010 08:31PM

danbohan wrote: »

never heard of it in the 80s , maybe it was back payments ?, social welfare offices were no more efficient then than now

I agree they were no more efficient then than now.

It wasn't back payments though it was a lump sum for payments in the next six months. You collected it once and were expected to sign off.

ArtSmart · 30-05-2010 02:02PM

Interesting stuff

Prob a better way is to facilitate graduates and newly qualified trades persons to avail of the WPPS* scheme abroad for a year or two (max), if they cant get something here. (*unpaid work experience in chosen field, but able to obtain some welfare benefits.) There is a scheme for border residents similar to this, but it's pretty limited.
Of course this benefits the chosen EU country, but in the longer term would be better for recent grads/trades people.

A "Live Abroad" social welfare scheme?

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