Water Charges, New Tax

aah yes · 23-04-2010 08:42AM

Shay Murtagh, sounds like Meath. Otherwise Carlow pre-cast are the other big ones.

All concrete tanks, but they still need all the digging done separately, and all the drain pipes routing separately from all the gulleys.

This extra budget, doubles up the job for new build sites.

So the existing 1.1 million houses, with all tarmac, gardens, services laid etc, start ripping them up, especially in urban areas, getting into housing estates, and start quoting for them jobs ...

Very minimum, start to finish, EVERYTHING included, not just the minor area what Shay Murtagh or Carlow Precast quote for, but the full job, start to finish ...

8,000 to 10,000 euros minimum

+ 1,300 to 2,000 for full post treatment solutions.

It would be nice to have a rosy picture of 3,800 all in, to get someone to go ahead and get the job started, and many do this, but when it comes to the final overall costings at nearer 10K, then they start realising what is all involved.

Like any building job really. Start building a house for example, and you end up a year or so late with finish date, at 50% or 100% over budget than what you thought.

ei.sdraob · 23-04-2010 08:58AM

gws wrote: »

Shay Murtagh, sounds like Meath. Otherwise Carlow pre-cast are the other big ones.

All concrete tanks, but they still need all the digging done separately, and all the drain pipes routing separately from all the gulleys.

This extra budget, doubles up the job for new build sites.

So the existing 1.1 million houses, with all tarmac, gardens, services laid etc, start ripping them up, especially in urban areas, getting into housing estates, and start quoting for them jobs ...

Very minimum, start to finish, EVERYTHING included, not just the minor area what Shay Murtagh or Carlow Precast quote for, but the full job, start to finish ...

8,000 to 10,000 euros minimum

+ 1,300 to 2,000 for full post treatment solutions.

It would be nice to have a rosy picture of 3,800 all in, to get someone to go ahead and get the job started, and many do this, but when it comes to the final overall costings at nearer 10K, then they start realising what is all involved.

Like any building job really. Start building a house for example, and you end up a year or so late with finish date, at 50% or 100% over budget than what you thought.

Relax

I am only going by the figures quoted to me at the exhibition, i am no expert in this, there was filtering but not purification included, once again the concrete tank (Im not going naming anyone here, not my business, the concrete tanks are from Cavan, company is from Meath) itself delivered and put in is 1800, the rest is for plumbing

maybe they quoted me such a price because theres already a large digger on my land, moving rocks and digging trenches and a hole for a new waste treatment plant, it certainly doesnt cost much to dig a hole i tell you (provided your not on bedrock and need a rock splitter)

eitherway the point im trying to make, i would have no objections to water charges if the money actually would go to improving infrastructure and maybe even providing grants
being cynical of the authorities abilities and knowing how wasteful the government is i seriously think that this tax money will just endup going into the coffers to prop up banks, welfare and PS

aah yes · 23-04-2010 09:40AM

I'm chilling like a racoon with sunglasses

Different pricing for DIY, your own project management on site on a new build.

Not the same for the governement to contract works for 1.1 million homes on existing builds, where most are outside all in one contracts, start to finish jobs without DIY involvement.

These sorts of retrofits, are 8,000 to 10,000 euros + additional treatment.

Just a matter or working out where you are coming from. DIY on a new build keeps the costs as low as possible, digger already on site.

Or Dublin estate, 20 year old house, owner wants some company to do everything, because the owner does not want go doing digging, and does not happen to have a digger sat in their back garden.

aah yes · 23-04-2010 09:41AM

system error double post there ?

Anyway, back to metering.

Ireland needs metering, as in all households to calculate point of use at each house, plus sectional metering at area check points to cross reference area usage, and then calculate current national usage plus wastage.

A big area of waste is the actual household use of 250 litres per day for water tight houses, and the national figures of household use after infrastructural wastages are noted at 40% to %50%. Then the governament offer figures of 400 litres per day being used, and all architects and engineers work on these figures, but there is 150 litres per household, within households as an average being wasted.

Overall waste is well over 50% from point of source to actual use, possibly 60% lost.

Now metering done correctly will bring Ireland into the professional league of European countries when figures are actually narrowed down to the last 1% and metering allows a final figure to be given and then the state of the overall pipework that needs to be brought up to modern day standards.

That will be a huge job, but it is no good going on the way we are with so called free water. It is not free and it is costing us an arm and a leg year by year and it cannot go on.

Get the job done right. It is like pot holed roads getting filled and re-filled, without laying flat and even, well dug foundations with new proper tarmac. Cheaper on the long run for road maintenance and vehicle maintenance, plus more freely moving traffic ... and less accidents. Our pipes are like our old country pot holed roads.

Maybe do the two jobs together?

SLIPPERY FROG · 05-06-2010 02:25PM

hi all
ive been banned from a few posts for speaking out against a few things and also relating my own experiences.

as for water charges i have a small farm and for two months i was charged 300 euro, which i feel is expensive, that is 1200 euro a year, and going up

any thoughts without getting me banned

SLIPPERY FROG · 05-06-2010 02:30PM

in relation to gws
nice idea well thought out but it will never happen,

water tcharges are a further tax,

who will stand up and take responsibility for all the waste in the wettest country in western europe, if we get a dry spell we have water shortages, the buck does not stop with the householder.

as far as i see its a money making issue for the goverment and local authorties.

recedite · 05-06-2010 03:29PM

SLIPPERY FROG wrote: »

i have a small farm and for two months i was charged 300 euro, which i feel is expensive, that is 1200 euro a year, and going up

any thoughts without getting me banned

Why don't you get a well drilled? As it is, you are paying over the odds because agriculture and industry help subsidize those who don't pay anything.

ardmacha · 05-06-2010 04:32PM

as far as i see its a money making issue for the goverment and local authorties.

Of course it is question of money, the government cannot keep borrowing money to provide free water.

dunsandin · 05-06-2010 11:43PM

I hired a nice lad with a well drilling machine and drilled 2 900' boreholes. Then I hired a nice lad to fit a high capacity deep well pump, and another to supply 20,000ltr sealed storage tanks. Water charges? I don't think so. Would you like to buy some off me? I've loads. Govt, bite me. And as an aside, I have enough electricity generating capacity to run a small town. I believe in self-sufficency, and put my money where my mouth is. I will be paying no-one else. I actually did this to have the ability to thumb my nose at the govt and their stealth taxes dressed up as "service charges", but it was a bit of craic as well. They will probably look for me to pay for a water abstraction charge or licence, but the best of luck with that.

Liam Byrne · 06-06-2010 12:31AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Go with it, water is going to be like oil. There's only one way the price is going and that will be up. 1800 shekels is very little in fairness

What ? That's a month's wages to many people! :mad:

And that's NOT including mortgages and all the other taxes that go towards ensuring the Bertie Aherns and Ivor Callelys of this godforsaken country can swan around at the taxpayers' expense.

dunsandin · 06-06-2010 01:06AM

Water is the new Oil. Fact. Google it. Price up a ballygowan as per a litre of unleaded - interesting reading. Look up the situation abroad. Want an investment tip-invest in water, and water utilities, oil is yesterday, H2O is where the futures at. Unless you dont use it? Sure its hardly essential, is it?:) George Bush(yes that one)has transferred his family wealth out of oil and into H2O-fact. Look up south american aquifer ownership. He may well have an inside track- P.S, anybody who reads this and makes a few mill, I want 1%, you can send it to DUNSANDIN, C/O Boards.ie, Ireland. Thanks.

SLIPPERY FROG · 06-06-2010 02:33AM

hi all
water drilling man coming tuesday
1000 eeuro for pump, 10 euro foot after tat to drill, should be about 150 foot so 2500 altogether, just over payback two years.

does this sound right, if it is by by local authority with its expensive water.

any ideas,

p.s. tell me more bout ur water storage and eletricial , costs etc would be interested in the idea.

ta

dunsandin · 06-06-2010 08:19PM

Interesting article in todays Times about the future value of water, well worth a read.

Liam Byrne · 06-06-2010 08:58PM

SLIPPERY FROG wrote: »

as for water charges i have a small farm and for two months i was charged 300 euro, which i feel is expensive, that is 1200 euro a year, and going up

any thoughts without getting me banned

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but €300 for 2 months is €1,800 a year.

dunsandin · 07-06-2010 02:03AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but €300 for 2 months is €1,800 a year.

Sorry to be a pedantic twat, but €300 for 2 months is €600, and a year does not even come into it. €500 for 14 months is €675854, whilst €56745336 for two leap years is $50. Thats fifty dorrars.

Liam Byrne · 07-06-2010 04:09PM

dunsandin wrote: »

Sorry to be a pedantic twat, but €300 for 2 months is €600, and a year does not even come into it.

Huh ?

as for water charges i have a small farm and for two months i was charged 300 euro, which i feel is expensive, that is 1200 euro a year, and going up

If he was charged €300 for 2 months, that's €150 a month, which would be €1,800 a year if he's charged the same rates every month.

The year does come into it, because it was mentioned in the post I was referring to.

If it was indeed meant as "€300 each month for 2 months", as you assume, then it would be €3,600 a year, which is 3 times what the poster mentioned....they'd hardly make that much of a mistake ?

dunsandin wrote: »

€500 for 14 months is €675854, whilst €56745336 for two leap years is $50. Thats fifty dorrars.

Haven't a feckin clue what all that is about, because it makes no sense. :rolleyes:

dunsandin · 07-06-2010 04:14PM

Doesn't make much sense to me either, probably did at the time though. Could've been drink involved, but I cant remember, (so its likley:D) I think you did a much better job of making sense Liam!

MR.BIG EARS · 07-06-2010 04:50PM

1200 is a guess cause most amount of cattle would be inside drinking water, and should be less for summer months, but at around 1200 euros is still expensive.

thebman · 07-06-2010 06:29PM

dunsandin wrote: »

Doesn't make much sense to me either, probably did at the time though. Could've been drink involved, but I cant remember, (so its likley:D) I think you did a much better job of making sense Liam!

Avoid posting in politics forum when drunk :P

In fact best to steer clear of forums in general if drunk

johnmcdnl · 07-06-2010 07:05PM

metered water is a great idea and for anyone crying about poor quality rainwater... hook it up to your toilets and hoses - think how much water that alone will save...

all you'll have to pay for is the water to your kitchen tap then and perhaps in the extreme case - in the event of a deerer drought you could simply turn the water over to the mains if your tank did ever manage to run dry...

there shouldn't be a flat rate tax for every household but instead a rate dependent on your useage... it's only fair seeing as the pipes have to be maintened and the pumps have to be run.. water isn't free unless your bringing it to your house in a bucket so it's only right that we should have to pay to use it

jimmycrackcorm · 07-06-2010 07:58PM

SLIPPERY FROG wrote: »

hi all
ive been banned from a few posts for speaking out against a few things and also relating my own experiences.

as for water charges i have a small farm and for two months i was charged 300 euro, which i feel is expensive, that is 1200 euro a year, and going up

any thoughts without getting me banned

How about telling us grow much you get in farm subsidies?

Lu Tze · 07-06-2010 10:50PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How about telling us grow much you get in farm subsidies?

Not a farmer by trade, but it is in the family, and this seems to be the typical opening to a witch hunt. You do realise that you also reap the benefit of these subsidies, as the reason groceries are relatively cheap compared to income these days is partly due to this? The proportion of income spent on basic food requirements has plummeted in the past 20-30 years or so.

SLIPPERY FROG

SLIPPERY FROG wrote:

hi all
ive been banned from a few posts for speaking out against a few things and also relating my own experiences.

as for water charges i have a small farm and for two months i was charged 300 euro, which i feel is expensive, that is 1200 euro a year, and going up

any thoughts without getting me banned

In relation to the original query on water metering, not sure what the rate you are paying (it varies between the local authorities) but you may have a substantial leak on your land somewhere. Is €300 significantly more than previous bills for the same time last year?

MR.BIG EARS · 07-06-2010 11:22PM

IN RESPONSE TO MR JIMMY CRACK

if u want 2 know how much i make in subsidies look up the department of agticulture site and input my name and address and they will give exacly the amount, i think a lot of people would have a problem if every person in the country with the internet could access how much they received in payments.

now u tell me exactly how much u earn whether it be paye or self employed

no i didnt think u would.

comments like that are going off the point and i feel are pointless, sorry

this is about water metering not how much one earns from subsidies which is a totally different topic. you tell me how many family farms in this country support a family without a second income.

anyway im rambling, my point is if the county council want to charge me 1200 a year lets say, and i can get water from a well for lets say 3000 euros thats less than three years of a payback, this means the council are offering an expensive service and their product is coming in way over price. simple economics and market forces dictiate that i tell them to forget their water and get a well.

they are the ones left with the expence of fitting out and meetering the pipes into my farm, but u can buy gold too dear. this shows per litre charged that it is way to expensive. people will not see this just yet because the cost is increasing gradually, but for the quality and service the councils off it is poor value for money.

i believe that water charges will increase over the next few years and be an extra tax. i am one of the lucky ones i can tell them council to forget their charges and be self sufficent.
ps no leaks if there was i would owe thousands of euros, council have only got meetering up and running around here this year.
ta all

eoinbn · 08-06-2010 12:19AM

Lu Tze wrote: »

In relation to the original query on water metering, not sure what the rate you are paying (it varies between the local authorities) but you may have a substantial leak on your land somewhere. Is €300 significantly more than previous bills for the same time last year?

I doubt it's a leak. My father got a bill for €1200 for a 2 month leak.

Water Charges, New Tax

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