Are greyhound breeders the new developers?

Essexboy · 23-06-2010 07:52PM #1

Whatever your views on the Dog Breeding Bill isn't amazing how so many FF backbenchers are concerned about greyhound breeders?

Not just any backbenchers but arguably some of the most disreputable backbenchers eg John O'Donoghue are lobbying on behalf of the breeders. Now that the developers are in Queer Street attention has switched to another set of money men.

rovert · 23-06-2010 08:11PM

As we all know greyhound racing is where the money is, right?

sceptre · 23-06-2010 08:23PM

I haven't particularly noticed (then again I haven't been looking). When you say "so many", how many, roughly, and more interestingly, who? And obviously with who, when have they been doing this?

(apart from John O'Donoghue, who you've mentioned, who also has about as much credibility outside south Kerry these days as a sign to the local moving statue)

wonderfulname · 23-06-2010 08:26PM

Essexboy wrote: »

Whatever your views on the Dog Breeding Bill isn't amazing how so many FF backbenchers are concerned about greyhound breeders?

Not really, what amazes me is Brian Cowen isn't that concerned, I've seen him at more race meets than anything.

thebman · 23-06-2010 08:53PM

Politicians like horse racing and dog racing as where it suits the people in the know at these events to let them in on whats going on as politicians can offer favors. Politicians then have a better chance of winning as its all about what you know at those events.

Its about as open a view of I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine as you can get.

Also since their isn't tax on takings, if you have money you want to make it look like you got appropriately, you can always go down the races and claim you had a good day.

Sulmac · 23-06-2010 09:06PM

I'm going to admit I'm no expert on the subject, but I am a supporter of animal rights and regulation (within reason, of course). So, this is an unqualified opinion.

From today's Irish Times:

Mr Gormley has outlined what he characterised as “significant concessions” on the Dog Breeding Establishments Bill in relation to micro-chipping, inspections, fees and breeding limitations.

Now, does ANYONE have an issue with dog breeders being subject to regular inspections? For all newborn pups to be microchipped? For bitches to only bear a litter as often as they should naturally (this is what I take from "breeding limitations")?

This is just an example of vested interests at its finest, and directed at creatures that literally have no voice.

Sickening.

rovert · 23-06-2010 09:18PM

I grew up in a family who raced Greyhounds but never really bred them. So Ive some background at least. Depending what you read it is being framed as either a vested interest deal or town vs. country issue.

Either way lets be realistic the industry does have a real darkside anything that increases the welfare of dogs for their full natural life should be embraced.

Sulmac · 23-06-2010 09:32PM

rovert wrote: »

I grew up in a family who raced Greyhounds but never really bred them. So Ive some background at least. Depending what you read it is being framed as either a vested interest deal or town vs. country issue.

I think you're right here, inadvertently.

Usually the ones defending the current practises describe those trying to pass these new regulations as starting a "town v. country" issue, saying they're interfering with the "rural way of life".

I mean, just look at this quote from Máire Hoctor (Tipperary North, Fianna Fáil):

“I’m also aware of the fact that the vast majority of the Green Party, with the exception of Mary White, is urban-based. I’ve become convinced that they don’t understand the significance of rural pursuits and the benefits that accrue to rural Ireland. It needs to be given more time.”

I don't see how them being "urban-based" means they can't pass laws on animal welfare? Does that mean she shouldn't have any input into legislation regarding the Dublin Metro or DART Underground because she's "rural-based"?

Hoctor herself isn't a veterinarian or animal welfare expert - she's a secondary school teacher! She has about as much expertise on this issue as John Gormley himself has.

Also, dog breeding is not a "rural pursuit" - it's a business (in rural AND urban areas), and should be regulated the same way we regulate other businesses in terms of health and safety, etc.

As I said, vested interests at its finest.

Wide Road · 23-06-2010 10:01PM

All politics are local. In fairness to Maura Hoctor, she wouldn't get many votes speaking about Dart etc. She is only doing what the other TDs do from all parties. Last week should have taught you that lesson.

Sulmac · 23-06-2010 10:07PM

Wide Road wrote: »

All politics are local. In fairness to Maura Hoctor, she wouldn't get many votes speaking about Dart etc. She is only doing what the other TDs do from all parties. Last week should have taught you that lesson.

True, but I don't understand how her simply being from a rural area seems to automatically make her more qualified on the issue of dog breeding; a business that exists in urban and rural communities alike.

Nowso · 29-06-2010 03:11PM

The bill was drawn up by Dick Roche who had no intention to include greyhounds who are covered under the 1958 greyhound act as it would be double regulation and would have a massive negative effect on an industry supporting 11,000 jobs that was regarded by Martin Cullen ex sports minister as great value for Money.
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This is the next step by the Greens to follow there ideas and ignore the economy following on from the Carbon Tax !

Below is the latest betting from paddypower. Its a measure of the greens popularity!
How many seats will the Green Party win in the next Irish General Election? (30/06/2010 10:00), Green Party Seats
(2-1) None
(6-4) One
(3-1) Two
(9-1) Three
(10-1) Four
(14-1) Five
(14-1) Six or more
.

suraheg · 29-06-2010 10:27PM

Greyhounds aren't just used for sport.. I dont see why people should have such a problem with regulating something like this. Surely people who spend all their time with dogs, like greyhounds, care about animals? Surely they cant be purely in it for the financial reasons, esp in this economy.. I don't see why they are against something that will be good for animal rights.

rovert · 29-06-2010 11:18PM

suraheg wrote: »

Greyhounds aren't just used for sport.. I dont see why people should have such a problem with regulating something like this. Surely people who spend all their time with dogs, like greyhounds, care about animals? Surely they cant be purely in it for the financial reasons, esp in this economy.. I don't see why they are against something that will be good for animal rights.

€€€ and accountability

suraheg · 29-06-2010 11:24PM

6 -12 bitches you pay € 400 and 13 – 25 bitches is € 800? With the amount they get in a year racing etc.. surely this isnt too much? There are way too many unwanted greyhounds in the first place!

Nowso · 29-06-2010 11:51PM

There already regulated and inspected.

Under the new proposed law a brood bitch is a bitch from a young age when in reality bitchs are bred at the age of 3 on?

It is a badly done piece of legislation typical green party.
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The minister refused to meet the government appointed Chairman of the greyhound board.
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The bill will put 11,000 jobs at risk .
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90 percent of greyhound bred are by small breeders in back yard type situation who are not bigshots and are the grassroots of the industry who will be hit by the law which was meant for intensive puppy farms.

expectationlost · 30-06-2010 12:05AM

http://www.hamiltonarchitects.co.uk/big_details/bp_limerick_stadium.html

all sports are medium of political corruption

Nowso · 30-06-2010 12:46AM

expectationlost wrote: »

http://www.hamiltonarchitects.co.uk/big_details/bp_limerick_stadium.html

The greyhound board a semi state body invested in the new track . Restauraunt. Office and conference facily by the way of sales of assets and loans.
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The facility will be a great facility for the limerick are. .
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The greyhound establishments bill would put all that at risk . Unless the ammendments put forward by the greyhound board are accepted.
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The board also want an ammendment to the current 1958 greyhound act to improve welfare.

Nowso · 30-06-2010 01:01AM

Re the topic question.
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Small greyhound breeders are being attacked by dual regulation and stealth methods of trying to kill of there way of life and cant be considered the same as property developers.
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The greens tail has been wagging the dog 2 much. !

expectationlost · 30-06-2010 03:50PM

gaa pitches were cited in the tribunals as the currency of corruption, don't object to our planning,(even if there legitimate reasons) get the locals on side and will give ya a gaa pitch.

go to the horses, go to the match, its reason for certain people to bump into each other.

markpb · 30-06-2010 04:08PM

Nowso wrote: »

It is a badly done piece of legislation typical green party.

You realise of course that ministers and TDs don't ever write legislation? It's drawn up by drafters and staff from the AG office. Pinning the blame for this on the GP is history repeating itself - they've become the new FF mudflaps, just like the PDs did years ago.

seamus · 30-06-2010 04:11PM

Nowso wrote: »

There already regulated and inspected.

Then they have nothing to fear.

The bill will put 11,000 jobs at risk .

How so? If greyhound breeders are already looking after their animals then this piece of shamefully weak dog breeding legislation will have little or no effect on them.

The problem here is that some industries - particularly those which involve live animals - oppose any legislation or regulation, instead insisting that they should be left alone and the "culture" in that particular area needs to be preserved.

The simple fact is that Ireland's "culture" when it comes to animals is one of neglect, abuse and exploitation. The greyhound industry has just as many scumbags as any other. In fact, it probably has more - given the money involved.

The honourable greyhound breeders should be welcoming any legislation which weeds out the bad apples in their group - it will result in more money for the good breeders. I would question the ethics/motives of any breeder opposed to regulation in their industry.

I imagine if a bill was introduced which regulated the breeding of rabbits in private, we wouldn't hear a peep - rabbits don't produce brown envelopes.

Nowso · 01-07-2010 01:04AM

Word has come that Mr Gormley has finally decided to exempt greyhounds from the bill.
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I know of plenty of people who would have been lost to the industry had the bill gone ahead in its previous state.
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When you take a huge percentage of consumer/suppliers out of an industry you will soon have no industry .

baalthor · 01-07-2010 01:34AM

Sulmac wrote: »

I think you're right here, inadvertently.

Usually the ones defending the current practises describe those trying to pass these new regulations as starting a "town v. country" issue, saying they're interfering with the "rural way of life".

I mean, just look at this quote from Máire Hoctor (Tipperary North, Fianna Fáil):

I don't see how them being "urban-based" means they can't pass laws on animal welfare? Does that mean she shouldn't have any input into legislation regarding the Dublin Metro or DART Underground because she's "rural-based"?

Hoctor herself isn't a veterinarian or animal welfare expert - she's a secondary school teacher! She has about as much expertise on this issue as John Gormley himself has.

Also, dog breeding is not a "rural pursuit" - it's a business (in rural AND urban areas), and should be regulated the same way we regulate other businesses in terms of health and safety, etc.

As I said, vested interests at its finest.

Apparently any activity involving animals is part of the "rural way of life" (ahem ...

)

Anyway ...according to rural affairs expert Mattie McGrath this now includes:

Zoos - even though the "ezoo" is a Dublin institution

"The kitty cat chasing the mouse"* - again, I thought this happens everywhere and it's not like the parties involved are going to pay attention to any legislative changes, although I would like to see the Frontline debate on the issue, possibly moderated by a rotund, broom wielding house-maid whose face we never see for some reason ...

*These are Deputy McGrath's words, not mine

Are greyhound breeders the new developers?

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