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What is Anarchy?

  • 18-07-2010 11:51PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭


    http://irishlibertyforum.org/researched-articles/68-what-is-anarchy.html
    "That government is best which governs not at all”.
    -Henry David Thoreau.

    Anarchy is Greek for “without a leader or chief”. The basis for anarchist theory can go as far back as Aristotle. The word “Anarchy” first came into usage as a term of abuse during the English Civil by Royalists to describe Parliamentarians, claiming that their opponents prefer disorder in society. “Anarchy” today is still mostly used to describe a chaotic, lawless and violent society. The philosophical application of anarchy as a form of governance is called “Anarchism”. The modern schools of anarchist philosophy became popular in the ninetieth century after the Jacobin government of the French Revolution became unsatisfactory. There are as many forms of anarchy as there are anarchists. Most anarchist schools can be loosely divided into two main groups: collectivist and individualist anarchy. Anarchist thinkers may originally come from both left-wing and right-wing ideologies. There are few main principles common to all anarchists.

    Articles continues to explain some anarchist theory. No historical examples given but I am told they will come later if you sign up on the left for the newsletter.

    Personally I prefer anarcho-naturism. As I dont like government and I like being naked.:D


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    These kinds of ideas are fine, so long as people don't begin to take them seriously. Most of the advocates of an anarchist society would be incapable of surviving in an anarchist society. That thought always makes me chuckle :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭Hazlittle


    Denerick wrote: »
    These kinds of ideas are fine, so long as people don't begin to take them seriously. Most of the advocates of an anarchist society would be incapable of surviving in an anarchist society. That thought always makes me chuckle :)


    I'm not aware of a service I need that the government provides. Fire department would be the hardest to emulate but still it can be done. Anyway your comment is daft and immature.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Hazlittle wrote: »
    I'm not aware of a service I need that the government provides.
    Come back to me on that when someone has broken into your house and taken all your stuff.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Hazlittle wrote: »
    I'm not aware of a service I need that the government provides. Fire department would be the hardest to emulate but still it can be done. Anyway your comment is daft and immature.

    So you'd be willing and able to stand up to Al Capone?

    Or perhaps society needs an overarching governing process to protect the weak from the brutal?

    Its not daft or immature at all - its realistic. Anarchism is an adolescent ideology. Most grow out of it once they realise how much they are on their own already, even in the modern welfare state.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Denerick wrote: »
    So you'd be willing and able to stand up to Al Capone?

    Or perhaps society needs an overarching governing process to protect the weak from the brutal?

    Its not daft or immature at all - its realistic. Anarchism is an adolescent ideology. Most grow out of it once they realise how much they are on their own already, even in the modern welfare state.

    the counter argument is that we are beginning to see that the welfare state is a ponzi scheme, there is no way the up and coming generation is going to enjoy the same benefits as their parents or grandparentss. personally I'd like to have the choice of funding my own medical needs versus buying the latest flat screen tv. So to be honest in this case adolescents areahead of the curve:D
    Also from a living arrangement perspective I equate the modern breakdown in family structures and local communities as being corellated to the rise of big government and the welfare state. So one has to ask, after one has provided welfare to the bottom 10% say , why the rest? it is not doing me any favours that I couldnt look after on my own account.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Thats missing the point. The issue is whether one could survive on their own in an anarchist society. My contention is that most could not, especially the semi intellectual (IE, students who have just discovered the Ayn Rand article on Wikipedia) types. In other words even debating it is futile.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭Hazlittle


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Come back to me on that when someone has broken into your house and taken all your stuff.

    Yep. Been attacked many times. I'd rather spend €310 once on a gun then spend €12k a year on services I dont receive.

    Dont assume you know the story of my life keyboard warrior.
    Denerick wrote: »
    So you'd be willing and able to stand up to Al Capone?

    Or perhaps society needs an overarching governing process to protect the weak from the brutal?

    Organised crime exists because the black market exists which only exist because laws exist.

    I'd pay directly for security then the way we do it know.
    Denerick wrote: »
    Its not daft or immature at all - its realistic. Anarchism is an adolescent ideology. Most grow out of it once they realise how much they are on their own already, even in the modern welfare state.

    Most anarchists I know are triple my age. And I am an adult male.
    Denerick wrote: »
    Thats missing the point. The issue is whether one could survive on their own in an anarchist society. My contention is that most could not, especially the semi intellectual (IE, students who have just discovered the Ayn Rand article on Wikipedia) types. In other words even debating it is futile.

    I guess you didnt read the article in full. It says nothing about people living on their own. Anarchist isnt without order just doesnt have a mandatory order.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Hazlittle wrote: »
    I'd rather spend €310 once on a gun then spend €12k a year on services I dont receive.
    In the absence of a police force, I doubt your single gun would keep you particularly safe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Denerick wrote: »
    These kinds of ideas are fine, so long as people don't begin to take them seriously. Most of the advocates of an anarchist society would be incapable of surviving in an anarchist society. That thought always makes me chuckle :)

    There's a few anarchy advocates in my university. Only one of whom I can concievably see surviving in an anarchist society. All are the kids of highly paid public sector workers.
    The irony never ceases to amaze me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    This post has been deleted.

    I think I mentioned before the time I was attending (Though not participating) in the anti-student fee's demonstration in front of the Dáil.

    The horizon was littered with the black and red flags.

    Never underestimate the ability of university students to be moronic idiots.

    It nicely proves the point that university education isn't all its cracked up to be :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,182 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Denerick wrote: »
    I think I mentioned before the time I was attending (Though not participating) in the anti-student fee's demonstration in front of the Dáil.

    The horizon was littered with the black and red flags.

    Never underestimate the ability of university students to be moronic idiots.

    It nicely proves the point that university education isn't all its cracked up to be :D

    sigh generalizations abound.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    sigh generalizations abound.
    It was like the tea party protesters with the placards that read "Hands off my medicare".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    sigh generalizations abound.

    Which part do you disagree with? That students waved the anarchist flag? Or that students are moronic idiots? Logically I was not generalising all students as then I would be including myself as a 'moronic idiot'... Thus you must think that the anarchist flag wave is a generalisation... Well sir, that makes absolutely no sense, I mean in the linguistic sense... So what is your point?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    This post has been deleted.

    To give the Sex Pistols their due, the only one who advocated anarchy in any actual way was Johnny Rotten, and he was from an extremely poor background himself.
    The Sex Pistols aren't really seen as proper anarchists in the anarcho-punk scene anyway.
    Denerick wrote: »
    I think I mentioned before the time I was attending (Though not participating) in the anti-student fee's demonstration in front of the Dáil.

    The horizon was littered with the black and red flags.

    Never underestimate the ability of university students to be moronic idiots.

    It nicely proves the point that university education isn't all its cracked up to be :D
    I was watching the same demonstration. It was hilarious seeing all those black and red flags, flown by the type of people who, if there was an anarchist/socialist revolition, would be the first to be lined against the wall to be shot as members of bourgeoisie.
    There seems to be something about the more privileged university students that gets them attracted to extreme ideologies (be it hardline socialism, libertarianism or anarchism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭simplistic2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    In the absence of a police force, I doubt your single gun would keep you particularly safe.

    Why wouldnt there be a police force? Id gladly pay for a voluntary policing service.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭simplistic2


    Denerick wrote: »
    These kinds of ideas are fine, so long as people don't begin to take them seriously. Most of the advocates of an anarchist society would be incapable of surviving in an anarchist society. That thought always makes me chuckle :)

    The basic principles of Anarchist thought are self ownership , non-initiation of force and property rights.

    If you genuinely care about your fellow man I think you would respect these principles. You wouldnt support violence being used against him or having the product of his labour stolen from him.

    But your a democrat so I suppose you prefer the illusion of government. If you follow the principles of government on a personal level in your own life , taxation, assaulting people for vitimless crimes people would see you as a criminal.

    But the fact is most of us are Anarchists in our personal lives we dont steal , assault anyone. Its just that many people have a problem appling this at a wider level.

    Statism is a religion , its an irrational belief that is dying thank God:D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    As a statist not only do I steal children and reapportion them to better families, I also thump the rich over the head in order to live longer by paying for a better health system and a more equitable pension settlement. In short I'm a monster.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Why wouldnt there be a police force? Id gladly pay for a voluntary policing service.
    ...and now you're paying a lot more than the €310 for the gun.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭simplistic2


    Denerick wrote: »
    As a statist not only do I steal children and reapportion them to better families, I also thump the rich over the head in order to live longer by paying for a better health system and a more equitable pension settlement. In short I'm a monster.

    ...disgusting


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭simplistic2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    ...and now you're paying a lot more than the €310 for the gun.

    Id probably have both really. The gun to use as a deterrent and Id pay security to find people that get past the gun.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    ...disgusting

    I know. And then I take the money from industrialists and re apportion it to educate five year olds.

    Seriously. I'm a bad man.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Id probably have both really. The gun to use as a deterrent and Id pay security to find people that get past the gun.
    Better hope you don't miss a payment. It would be a shame to have the cops refuse to help you because you're in arrears.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    This post has been deleted.
    I'm fairly into punk music myself. Not a big fan of the Pistols (without Rotten, they'd have been a painfully mediocre group) and I always found them to lack anything meaningful to say.
    I always had more time for groups like the Clash and the Stiff Little Fingers, with modern celtic-punk groups like the Dropkick Murphys or The Tossers being favorites at the moment.
    Anarcho-punk isn't really my scene either, I have a few friends who are heavily into it (especially the squatting subculture) but my own views would be too centrist for such things.
    There was a coalition who formed the Conservative Punk website (a backlash against a large number of punk groups who formed the Rock Against Bush group, backing Democrats in the 2004 election) a few years ago, which encompassed a fair few libertarians. The site has since gone under but a new Conpunk site has been set up, although it lacks the polish of the previous one.
    This post has been deleted.
    There's quite a few libertarians around univerities these days (anecdotally, it seems very prevalent in philosophy and the university debating circuit)
    Most university students seem to be apathetic though, there's always going to be Trots and Marxists around, they just tend to be extremely loud so it makes it look like there is a lot more of them than there really are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭Hazlittle


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    In the absence of a police force, I doubt your single gun would keep you particularly safe.

    We have a police and I am not safe without my gun. Seriously man do your own research. The wild west was safer than America is today. Somalia is safer than most parts of Africa. Police and laws gives you the illusion of justice.

    Here's some reading. Dont post agin until you this short 20 page book.

    http://irishlibertyforum.org/forum/topic.html?id=115
    There's a few anarchy advocates in my university. Only one of whom I can concievably see surviving in an anarchist society. All are the kids of highly paid public sector workers.
    The irony never ceases to amaze me.

    They're probably collective anarchists. Man seriously. You people need to read more.
    This post has been deleted.

    I'm a big punk fan. Seen Pistols a few times. Saw them first when I was knee high.
    Denerick wrote: »
    I think I mentioned before the time I was attending (Though not participating) in the anti-student fee's demonstration in front of the Dáil.

    I'm a proper anarchist that understands no state means no services. I dont get services so I'm fine with that. WSM arent reall anarchists. they're communists.
    But your a democrat so I suppose you prefer the illusion of government. If you follow the principles of government on a personal level in your own life , taxation, assaulting people for vitimless crimes people would see you as a criminal.

    But the fact is most of us are Anarchists in our personal lives we dont steal , assault anyone. Its just that many people have a problem appling this at a wider level.

    Statism is a religion , its an irrational belief that is dying thank God:D

    Correct brother. Democracy is the illusion of order. Try explaining to a mugger that his lifestyle is illegal or the British military about human rights.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,182 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    I generally don't like punk, though I like the Sex Pistols and appreciate the progressive dynamism of The Clash, I'm a metalhead, but I digress, does this make me a rationalist nietzschean? no..... I advocate for the idea that people who elect representatives can basically hold them to account, ie if the representative fails to represent the people they are shafted immediately through the democratic will of the people without the inteference of private interests. This requires a certain level of social maturity which is the crux. That is what I advocate for...

    Right now we live in an era of democratic deficit, our society is modelled on the American capitalist system which is a sham democracy and likewise ours is also sham. This is in my opinion an historical/cultural/maybe even evolutionary legacy whereby authoritarnism is the order du jour but one we can overcome through insight and imagination. However to adopt such a position would be authoritarian in itself so I am open to recognizing some of the potential benefits of authoritarianism however much the system in itself disgusts me.

    Ultimately I think technological progress coupled with a mass political awakening will cultivate the environment in which to practice liberatarianism whichever way one desires it to be, essentially a virtual reality bearing a relationship to forum board groups. This incorporates some problems, ie certain groups swallowing up others, cliques, monopolies etc but...with a world expanded beyond physical limitations finding ones societal niche and the greater range of choices would mean that the individual and their adopted society would mutually benefit. Imo the solution isn't in finding a one size fits all solution but in letting everyone find their own solution. There is no ideal/sustainable political system and technology will enable people to pursue their own utopias. Perhaps this will never happen but then what is science fiction today is science fact tomorrow.

    Moreover I have attended university anarchist meetings and I can say based on my own experience that many of those who attended, note not all, but the majority had a clear understanding of anarchist theory and were not driven by reactionary sloganeering/politics. However I emphasize that this was part of my limited experience and I cannot claim that all student anarachists are like this nor, on the contrary, that all student anarchists are reactionary rebellious teenagers who wave black flags and are quote on quote liberal lefty pinkos.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    I see anarchy as setting the stage ripe for some band of hooligans to take over by force. It fails at the first hurdle for me.


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