Cost of Vetinary Products

bbam · 26-07-2010 9:30pm #1

We were giving all animals a multivit shot at the weekend..
Was shocked at the variance of prices for the same 100ml bottle of Norbrook Multivitamin

€11.50 in local vetinary office and a mere €6.50 in the local Pharmacy store :eek:

It's a bloody disgrace, near 100% difference.

ellewood · 26-07-2010 9:37pm

do you find it good? do you give it to all stock?
started giving it to all the calves this year after the vet called to a calf that wasnt sucking well thats all he gave him oh yea and a bill of 60 odd quid for me to be fir tho calf went well after - makes a change usually die after vet has been- but gave all calves a dose of calf starter and vitamin shot at bout a week and all calves seemed to go very good after it no scour looked brighter ect and they all have thrived well after it

bbam · 26-07-2010 10:34pm

To be honest it's the first year we've done it as routene... We had some issues in the spring which the vet said were down to minerals/trace elements so this is a part of the plan to get their balance back..

Cows and calves got done.... not the bull as we try not to upset/handle him too much at all..

ellewood · 26-07-2010 11:05pm

do you also give cows other minerals ie. pre calver, mineral licks or the bolusus's or can you sicken/kill cows with too much vitamins
i also did the cows in the spring and ive had very little repeats - if any where as last year i had plenty

i dont know how much it was when i bought it off vets but last sat i got injectable worm dose for cows and calves in vets was 50.00 cash or 60.00 on account i bought it in chemist's 5 mins up road for a little over half what the account price was

metalwood · 26-07-2010 11:16pm

I'm buying it in farmrite in Portadown for €5.30 good price imo i give it to sheep whenever they are sick or looking poorly, it seems to give them a good boost

Tora Bora · 27-07-2010 7:44am

I never really understand the use of vitimin injections, mineral licks, etc, etc.
All another way to get scarce money out of your pocket in my opinion.
Neighbour used to sell all these smoke and mirror magic potions door to door many years ago. All over Munster and Connaught. I never once bought a penneys worth off him, many others in the area did.
Thing is, come aunumn sales, I could never ever see any great difference in appearnce between my deprived weanlins and the ones who got the TLC form the magic bucket or bottle.
Maybe it's just me being backward, but I reckon fair good quality winter fodder, a dash of meals, plenty of summer grass, proper dosing routine for fluke, worms, lice etc, and you can forget about magic potions:eek:

PS: Just because one calf might look poorly and may benefit from a mineral shot, does not in my opinion mean you will benefit by running out to get a bigger bottle and giving it to the rest of them:pac:
Shure every family has the lad that didn't thrive like the biggest lad:P

LostCovey · 27-07-2010 8:19am

Tora Bora wrote: »

I never really understand the use of vitimin injections, mineral licks, etc, etc.
All another way to get scarce money out of your pocket in my opinion.
Neighbour used to sell all these smoke and mirror magic potions door to door many years ago. All over Munster and Connaught. I never once bought a penneys worth off him, many others in the area did.
Thing is, come aunumn sales, I could never ever see any great difference in appearnce between my deprived weanlins and the ones who got the TLC form the magic bucket or bottle.
Maybe it's just me being backward, but I reckon fair good quality winter fodder, a dash of meals, plenty of summer grass, proper dosing routine for fluke, worms, lice etc, and you can forget about magic potions:eek:

PS: Just because one calf might look poorly and may benefit from a mineral shot, does not in my opinion mean you will benefit by running out to get a bigger bottle and giving it to the rest of them:pac:
Shure every family has the lad that didn't thrive like the biggest lad:P

I totally agree with you. It is all about timing. I used to hear about a guy who sold multivitamin supplements for race horses. He would watch promising new trainers till they had a batch of decent horses on their hands, then give them a big free batch of product. If he got his timing just right and their horses clicked soon afterwards, he had a captive customer for life.

Humans and animals get enough vitamins and minerals from a balanced diet of fresh food. I think unless you have some dietary limitation (like vegetarianism, or lactose intolerance) then there is no need for vitamins. I certainly wouldn't waste my money buying them for animals.

Besides that B-vitamin loaded multivitamin mix stings like hell. It probably knocks more out a calf than any good it does.

If I was selling these vitamin injections, I would give them away at turnout time......

LostCovey

whelan1 · 27-07-2010 8:27am

i think every farm is different as to their mineral requirements ... if we dont give precalver minerals we get retained afterbirths and early calves , if we dont give the sucklers high mag buckets we loose a cow with tetany... but would be very slow to do the whole herd with a multivit injection , the odd animal might benefit , would you not be better getting bloods done and getting to the bottom of the problem

irishh_bob · 27-07-2010 8:30am

bbam wrote: »

We were giving all animals a multivit shot at the weekend..
Was shocked at the variance of prices for the same 100ml bottle of Norbrook Multivitamin

€11.50 in local vetinary office and a mere €6.50 in the local Pharmacy store :eek:

It's a bloody disgrace, near 100% difference.

vets have a huge mark up on all their medicines and drugs , we dont buy anything ( bar what you cant get anywhere ) off them out of principal alone

whelan1 · 27-07-2010 8:52am

ask your vet for a special cash price , i get rotavec corona 40ml for 180 euro - best price around and bucket of bovaclox extra dry cow tubes for 135 euro

bbam · 27-07-2010 9:19am

whelan1 wrote: »

ask your vet for a special cash price , i get rotavec corona 40ml for 180 euro - best price around and bucket of bovaclox extra dry cow tubes for 135 euro

That was it... it would have been more if put on the account !

Tora Bora wrote: »

I never really understand the use of vitimin injections, mineral licks, etc, etc.
All another way to get scarce money out of your pocket in my opinion.
Neighbour used to sell all these smoke and mirror magic potions door to door many years ago. All over Munster and Connaught. I never once bought a penneys worth off him, many others in the area did.
Thing is, come aunumn sales, I could never ever see any great difference in appearnce between my deprived weanlins and the ones who got the TLC form the magic bucket or bottle.
Maybe it's just me being backward, but I reckon fair good quality winter fodder, a dash of meals, plenty of summer grass, proper dosing routine for fluke, worms, lice etc, and you can forget about magic potions:eek:

PS: Just because one calf might look poorly and may benefit from a mineral shot, does not in my opinion mean you will benefit by running out to get a bigger bottle and giving it to the rest of them:pac:
Shure every family has the lad that didn't thrive like the biggest lad:P

When we started the pre-calver tablets in the drink we saw a noticable improvment n the condition of a few animals and the last two calves dropped unaided and were fighting to suck the cow rather than fighting to die :rolleyes:

We'll definitely be doing the pre-calver suppliment tablets again.
I suppose the multivit is a sort of once off "belts & braces". @ €1 per cow and 60cent a calf it's not going to break the bank.

Alibear · 27-07-2010 10:20am

Vets always have quite a high mark-up, especially with things like equine wormers... BUT, if you do need a certain product that cannot be found anywhere else your local practice can generally order it in quite quickly for you.

John_F · 27-07-2010 10:45am

@tora bora & Lost: Minerals and vitamins are extremely important for every animal, its just the quantities needed and the availability in feed is the question, a cow after calving that had not been fed a high magnesium mineral will not be able to use her own calcium reserves post calving and therefore get milk fever, we witnessed this this year when we changed from a low mg to a high mg pre calver mineral. Also if you don't feed adequate calcium post calving and early lactation then you run into milk fever again. Grass Tetany is a deficiency of magnesium as we know and perhaps you are not experiencing this as you make be letting animals into higher covers as mg is stored in the stem. Also the meal you feed is probably covering them for cal mag if it is a nut

However minerals and vitamins role in a calf to beef system and the horse system you have said is limited to the farm type and soil mineral content, most common deficiency in our area is copper. I'm not a great fan of blood samples ans i believe blood samples vary alot with the animals diet on the previous day.

With regards to the price of drugs, it is a monopoly and the more products that are licenced or prescription only meds the more control the vets have over price

whelan1 · 27-07-2010 11:11am

LostCovey wrote: »

I totally agree with you. It is all about timing. I used to hear about a guy who sold multivitamin supplements for race horses. He would watch promising new trainers till they had a batch of decent horses on their hands, then give them a big free batch of product. If he got his timing just right and their horses clicked soon afterwards, he had a captive customer for life.

Humans and animals get enough vitamins and minerals from a balanced diet of fresh food. I think unless you have some dietary limitation (like vegetarianism, or lactose intolerance) then there is no need for vitamins. I certainly wouldn't waste my money buying them for animals.

Besides that B-vitamin loaded multivitamin mix stings like hell. It probably knocks more out a calf than any good it does.

If I was selling these vitamin injections, I would give them away at turnout time......

LostCovey

i totally agree dont bother with mineral licks etc, sure we are all idiots paying out for them... sure isnt it much better to look at smelly cleanings and dead calves than to pay out for minerals god i wish i had thought of that sooner

BeeDI · 27-07-2010 11:53am

whelan1 wrote: »

i totally agree dont bother with mineral licks etc, sure we are all idiots paying out for them... sure isnt it much better to look at smelly cleanings and dead calves than to pay out for minerals god i wish i had thought of that sooner

WTF

......... smelly cleanings, dead calves, etc, etc without mineral injections, licks, etc,...
Never, ever used mineral lick. Perhaps on a handful of occasions I have used mineral injection on a target animal, because it looked a bit on the backward side. If I reached a point where I had to use all this ****e on a blanket basis, I would sell out :pac:
This is like the human race itself these days .......... wellness foods is what the likes of Danaone, Kerry, etc sell us ...... fckin yougurt in a fancy plastic bottle with an even fancier lable backed by an even fancier still advertising campaign .......... it's FCKIN MILK for pitys sake

Bottled water at €1 a bottle ..... shure if we hadn't it we would all keel over

That eminds me ...... I have pilates this evening and my colonic irrigation is scheduled for tomorrow ....... must remember to use only Vita Linea on my "wholegrain" sandwich tomorrow.
Dont forget to go to Dunnes this evening and get a carton of "Benecol" ...... reduces your cholestrol don't you know :P The fckrs bought the raw materials to make it from yourself and gave you a pittannce for it ......... because it's a wait for it "a commodity" product:pac:
One fancy bottle, label, add campaign later (supported by none other than Padraig Harrington), and it's gonna keep you alive and kicking for anither 250 years.

:D

whelan1 · 27-07-2010 12:05pm

every farm is different some farms have problems with copper or molybemum not every one has an actimel every morning , different folks different strokes...... must ring the factory and get them to take all my animals so

bbam · 27-07-2010 2:09pm

BeeDI wrote: »

WTF ......... smelly cleanings, dead calves, etc, etc without mineral injections, licks, etc,...
Never, ever used mineral lick. Perhaps on a handful of occasions I have used mineral injection on a target animal, because it looked a bit on the backward side. If I reached a point where I had to use all this ****e on a blanket basis, I would sell out :pac:
This is like the human race itself these days .......... wellness foods is what the likes of Danaone, Kerry, etc sell us ...... fckin yougurt in a fancy plastic bottle with an even fancier lable backed by an even fancier still advertising campaign .......... it's FCKIN MILK for pitys sake
Bottled water at €1 a bottle ..... shure if we hadn't it we would all keel over
That eminds me ...... I have pilates this evening and my colonic irrigation is scheduled for tomorrow ....... must remember to use only Vita Linea on my "wholegrain" sandwich tomorrow.
Dont forget to go to Dunnes this evening and get a carton of "Benecol" ...... reduces your cholestrol don't you know :P The fckrs bought the raw materials to make it from yourself and gave you a pittannce for it ......... because it's a wait for it "a commodity" product:pac:
One fancy bottle, label, add campaign later (supported by none other than Padraig Harrington), and it's gonna keep you alive and kicking for anither 250 years. :D

To be honest I find alot of the points made above based on ignorance (lack of knowledge) and resentment..
Just because you use most of the smilies doesn't validate a poorly made point..

pakalasa · 27-07-2010 5:49pm

Suckling 4 years now. I have always fed 'pre-calving' minerals in the silage. This year fed the minerals in the bit of barley I was buffer feeding. One timid cow did not eat the barley. She retained the after-birth for about 3 days. She was my only cow ever to do so. All calves have been very lively at birth also.

On Copper -
I have always injected with copper every spring, deep into the muscle. Then I read somewhere, that cupper can cause fetal-death, anybody know anything about this?
I would like to go back doing this, as I had a lot of repeats this year, and wonder if this had anything to do with it.:mad:

Feargal as Luimneach · 27-07-2010 7:24pm

bbam wrote: »

We were giving all animals a multivit shot at the weekend..
Was shocked at the variance of prices for the same 100ml bottle of Norbrook Multivitamin

€11.50 in local vetinary office and a mere €6.50 in the local Pharmacy store :eek:

It's a bloody disgrace, near 100% difference.

Co-ops and pharmacy generally buy in bulk so they can afford to sell at a cheaper price.:mad:
At the end of the day the vet is giving you at 24/7 on call service, he has to make his living somehow.:mad:

Dunedin · 27-07-2010 7:51pm

there are too many variables from farm to farm and year to year to say there is a definitive answer on this one.

There is a lot of talk that there will be more barren cows this year due to poorer quality silage as a result of the wet year last year.... it will be interesting to see if that comes to play

I would definitely recommend pre calver minerals to cows - makes an awful difference to the calves and the more livelier the calf, the quicker he gets sucking and thus reducing the risk of scour/disease in the calf.

I give all cows the Hi Mag nuts from calving to turn out and then the Mag bullets before turnout too. it's a case of trying to box off all eventualities as one dead cow in the field takes away an awful lot of profit. Thankfully, I've never had a loss yet and have been suckling cows at home for some 30 odd years.

in regard to copper, whilst not an expert on the subject, I do know that copper defieciency can lead to cows missing. what I have tended to do is to inject the ones that have obvious deficiency and so far this has worked.

THe ones that have proved most challenging for me over the past few years is getting heifers back in calf in the second year - anyone else have trouble wiht this one.

dar31 · 27-07-2010 7:55pm

mineral and vitamins are just as important as food and water to animals.
not giving animals access to minerals would be considered neglect and poor stockmanship.
at the very mininum a bucket lick with stock, and wont break the bank.
from memory, a bucket should do 20 cows a month,

LostCovey · 27-07-2010 8:31pm

To ALL,

Minerals???

I never mentioned minerals. No idea why minerals were dragged into this. There are mineral deficient soils, and farms and fields. A whole other discussion.

Which multivitamin deficiency occurs in Irish livestock??????

NONE.

Mind your money.

LostCovey

PS if you do have a particular deficiency in your stock like Vitamin E/Selenium, then these multivitamin injections don't have enough to prevent it anyway. They are rubbish. And they sting.

whelan1 · 27-07-2010 8:58pm

LostCovey wrote: »

I totally agree with you. It is all about timing. I used to hear about a guy who sold multivitamin supplements for race horses. He would watch promising new trainers till they had a batch of decent horses on their hands, then give them a big free batch of product. If he got his timing just right and their horses clicked soon afterwards, he had a captive customer for life.

Humans and animals get enough vitamins and minerals from a balanced diet of fresh food. I think unless you have some dietary limitation (like vegetarianism, or lactose intolerance) then there is no need for vitamins. I certainly wouldn't waste my money buying them for animals.

Besides that B-vitamin loaded multivitamin mix stings like hell. It probably knocks more out a calf than any good it does.

If I was selling these vitamin injections, I would give them away at turnout time......

LostCovey

are you blind maybe you are the one that needs minerals and vitamins

Tora Bora · 27-07-2010 9:01pm

LostCovey wrote: »

To ALL,

Minerals???

I never mentioned minerals. No idea why minerals were dragged into this. There are mineral deficient soils, and farms and fields. A whole other discussion.

Which multivitamin deficiency occurs in Irish livestock??????

NONE.

Mind your money.

LostCovey

PS if you do have a particular deficiency in your stock like Vitamin E/Selenium, then these multivitamin injections don't have enough to prevent it anyway. They are rubbish. And they sting.[/QUOTe

Exactly. Snake oil comes to mind. Another thing I would be concerned about would be suppressg the animals natural ability to regulate its own system by dumping uneccessary elements into its system. My cows get none of these things whatsoever. They look ok, they go in calf ok, the calves suck blah, blah. In fact I have cows rearing eleventh calf and in calf again.

whelan1 · 27-07-2010 9:10pm

Tora Bora wrote: »

LostCovey wrote: »

To ALL,

Minerals???

I never mentioned minerals. No idea why minerals were dragged into this. There are mineral deficient soils, and farms and fields. A whole other discussion.

Which multivitamin deficiency occurs in Irish livestock??????

NONE.

Mind your money.

LostCovey

PS if you do have a particular deficiency in your stock like Vitamin E/Selenium, then these multivitamin injections don't have enough to prevent it anyway. They are rubbish. And they sting.[/QUOTe

Exactly. Snake oil comes to mind. Another thing I would be concerned about would be suppressg the animals natural ability to regulate its own system by dumping uneccessary elements into its system. My cows get none of these things whatsoever. They look ok, they go in calf ok, the calves suck blah, blah. In fact I have cows rearing eleventh calf and in calf again.

well for you

LostCovey · 27-07-2010 9:47pm

whelan1 wrote: »

are you blind maybe you are the one that needs minerals and vitamins

Yes I am vision-impaired, as it happens. I have no idea how you found this out, and no idea why I should not have a valid opinion on farming matters because of a minor disability that is shared by a lot of people.

Despite this, I can punctuate.

LostCovey

bbam · 27-07-2010 10:26pm

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

he has to make his living somehow.:mad:

SHE charges plenty through callout without extortionate profit on basic products.
I'm on for everyone making a living but not a killing.

Birdnuts · 27-07-2010 11:27pm

irishh_bob wrote: »

vets have a huge mark up on all their medicines and drugs , we dont buy anything ( bar what you cant get anywhere ) off them out of principal alone

Nail on head - You should try treating fleas on dogs with stuff bought in local Vets stores. Firstly the price of the products are absolutely extortionate(I've just spent nearly 200 euro to treat 3 medium sized dogs). Worst of all the stuff doesn't even workkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk:mad::mad::mad::mad:

whelan1 · 28-07-2010 6:29am

if a bucket of minerals is around 12 euro - i stand corrected on that - and as dar31 says it should do 20 cows for 30 days, 12.00 divided by 20 cows is 60 cent for a month for minerals, per cow , bbam you say a shot for a cow is a euro , how long does that shot last for ? I think the bucket would make much better economic sense.

djmc · 28-07-2010 7:46am

Maybe we should open a small animal clinic in our local town or advertise to give shots grooming from home etc,
Do you have to be a vet to inject an animal.
After seeing the price of dog wormers etc. I asked my vet if ivormec would work and he said it would ever since I give him one ml of ivormec every six to 12 months and he stops scratching . I know someone who pays 50 euro for dog shots costs me under a euro.
I know a man who has a small dog with a life long skin condition he treats it with a shot of pinacillin every few months whenever it flares up and it clears it up perfect.
I agree some prices charged by vets are a rip off and no real effort are being made to keep prices down

pakalasa · 28-07-2010 8:44am

Dunedin wrote: »

....... Thankfully, I've never had a loss yet and have been suckling cows at home for some 30 odd years.

in regard to copper, whilst not an expert on the subject, I do know that copper defieciency can lead to cows missing. what I have tended to do is to inject the ones that have obvious deficiency and so far this has worked.

THe ones that have proved most challenging for me over the past few years is getting heifers back in calf in the second year - anyone else have trouble wiht this one.

Thanks, Dunedin. I think I might go back to injecting Copper alright.
No Loss in 30 Years, fair play. Never underestimate the power of the beastings...more powerful drugs in there than any company will ever produce. No losses here either in 4 years, thank God!

As for getting the heifers back in calf for the second year -
First of all do you calve down at 2 or 3 years, or 30 months with split herd. I tried to calve down at 2 years but very hard. Even using an easy calving AI lim bull. Teagasc recomend calving them 6 weeks before the main herd, a tall order at 2 years. I have tried 2 years but found that I was culling good heifers that didnt go back in calf. This year I will calve down at 30 months (Oct next year), and then let them slip back slowly over a few years, as they will slip anyway, to the rest of the herd (March calving). It is worth giving them extra meal also to keep them in good condition.........
That's what I've found anyway.;)

reilig · 28-07-2010 8:59am

Dunedin wrote: »

Thankfully, I've never had a loss yet and have been suckling cows at home for some 30 odd years.

That's some going. There's never a year goes by that we lose at least 1 or 2 - examples in the last few years have been a difficult calving, cow standing on calf, scour, ecoli, red water, bvd etc. We have about 150 cattle in total so our mortality rate is very low in comparison to the national average. Next door neighbour lost 11 calves out of 50 last spring - a combination of scours, calving difficulties, and weak calves. I'd be shocked and extremely annoyed if I had figures like that - wouldn't be able to sleep at night, would nearly have to sleep in the calving pens.

But no losses in 30 years is exceptional and you should be proud of it.
How many cows do you keep?

John-Holmes · 28-07-2010 10:05am

Stuff can be expensive surely.
Any one remember Kopertox? It was a spray that we would have used for sheeps feet.
Christ it was quare stuff. It disappeared from the market a few years ago because it was too strong or something like that.

bbam · 28-07-2010 10:50am

whelan1 wrote: »

if a bucket of minerals is around 12 euro - i stand corrected on that - and as dar31 says it should do 20 cows for 30 days, 12.00 divided by 20 cows is 60 cent for a month for minerals, per cow , bbam you say a shot for a cow is a euro , how long does that shot last for ? I think the bucket would make much better economic sense.

It probably would but then the bull and the stronger cows just hog it and the shy ones I would be unsure of their intake.. And I don't think the calves would touch the bucket, not all of them anyway..
That is also why we opted for the trace elements via the water drinker during pre-calving, it's a way of ensuring a fair share for all...

Dunedin · 28-07-2010 2:01pm

Sorry all but I didn’t explain myself properly – I was only referring to not losing a cow in over 30 years (cannot ever remember actually losing a cow). Quite a few of my neighbours have lost cows in the past few years thro’ grass tetany. This was what I was referring to in terms of giving minerals and bullets to cows.

I have my fair share of loses when it comes to calves and general livestock as we all do. When you have Livestock you will have ‘Deadstock’.........

I actually found a calf (4 months old) dead in the field a few weeks ago. Got a PM done on her and the vet said it was Malignant Medeena (probably not spelt right).
As far as I took from him, it is a black leg type thing that affects first and second year grazers. Anyone ever hear of this (I certainly haven’t). He said that Covexem 10 vacinates against this.

Feargal as Luimneach · 28-07-2010 5:16pm

Dunedin wrote: »

Sorry all but I didn’t explain myself properly – I was only referring to not losing a cow in over 30 years (cannot ever remember actually losing a cow). Quite a few of my neighbours have lost cows in the past few years thro’ grass tetany. This was what I was referring to in terms of giving minerals and bullets to cows.

I have my fair share of loses when it comes to calves and general livestock as we all do. When you have Livestock you will have ‘Deadstock’.........

I actually found a calf (4 months old) dead in the field a few weeks ago. Got a PM done on her and the vet said it was Malignant Medeena (probably not spelt right).
As far as I took from him, it is a black leg type thing that affects first and second year grazers. Anyone ever hear of this (I certainly haven’t). He said that Covexem 10 vacinates against this.

Malignant oedema: rare and sporadic, can look like blackleg.

C0N0R · 28-07-2010 5:44pm

My father is a qualified nutrionalist and we give minerals to cows prior to calving. We buy it by the bag and scatter it over the silage once a day. This way you get the best distribution among cows.

Alibear · 28-07-2010 6:17pm

C0N0R wrote: »

My father is a qualified nutrionalist and we give minerals to cows prior to calving. We buy it by the bag and scatter it over the silage once a day. This way you get the best distribution among cows.

Could you not give copper supplements in this way also?

With horses, we feed chelated copper which is available as a powder, liquid or in a syringe. With the liquid, we administer a syringe every two weeks or add 25mls a day to their feed.

I understand that horses are a lot easier to 'manage' in situations like this this as they are fed individually (and you don't have to deal with herds of hundreds!), and each feed is tailored to a horse's requirements.

C0N0R · 28-07-2010 7:00pm

In what we feed there are vitamins and minerals. Some of these include copper magnesium etc

Cost of Vetinary Products

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