Girls doing 4 times as much study as boys.

Millicent · 16-08-2010 04:25PM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

You must share an appartment with Spurious - it's a sympathy period:(

Seriously tho - it's AH - I have yet to see any thread without the usual racist, sexist etc etc comments piled up. It's annoying if you have an real interest in the topic at hand, apart from that it's amusing to a point. At this stage I don't expect any different. Why raise your standards when it's easier just to lower your expectations?

Fair point and I get you but there are tongue in cheek jokes, like your own, and then obnoxiously sexist posts which are so ridiculous, they shouldn't be aggravating but they seriously are!

Banned Account · 16-08-2010 04:27PM

Millicent wrote: »

Fair point and I get you but there are tongue in cheek jokes, like your own, and then obnoxiously sexist posts which are so ridiculous, they shouldn't be aggravating but they seriously are!

Herein lieth the problem - some people actually mean what they type - scary thought really.

phasers · 16-08-2010 04:29PM

Girls also do 4 times more exaggerating in surveys, I know because we got asked this stuff in school a couple of years ago and the vast majority of us just lied.

whatdoicare · 16-08-2010 04:33PM

I'm a girl and I can safely say I never did 4 hours of study at night. What I did was, I paid attention during the day and didn't need to study it again.
Just refreshed before an exam and used common sense for everything else.

School from 9 till 3:30pm and homework till 6:30pm is more than enough for anyone.

phasers · 16-08-2010 04:35PM

I'm a girl and didn't go to school for half of sixth year and only ever did history homework because I fancied my teacher.

In summary: get hotter teachers.

Earthhorse · 16-08-2010 04:35PM

phasers wrote: »

Girls also do 4 times more exaggerating in surveys, I know because we got asked this stuff in school a couple of years ago and the vast majority of us just lied.

If the first part of your post is true then this only happened around six months ago and only a small minority of you lied.

derfderf · 16-08-2010 04:44PM

SuperInfinity wrote: »

No, this is not true and quite ignorant in fact. The worst boys will always be worse than the worst girls. But many guys have no intention of acting up or playing around.

The competition among boys is far greater for other types of things. The leaving cert is kind of lame as a "competition" though, that is why boys don't like it.

I think the leaving cert is stupid, I wasted many hours on that that I wish I never had. I think the girls in the mixed schools are a lot better adjusted, smarter and without emotional issues.

I wouldn't call basing my opinion on my own experience ignorant at all. Neither of us has the full facts. I wasn't a particularly bad student but i'd have a pot on my head as quick as the next lad.

SugarHigh · 16-08-2010 04:48PM

spurious wrote: »

Do you not think it might not be such a good thing for a large majority of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. in the future to be women?

That won't happen. Women do well early on but then drop out.

In the physical sciences, there are 90 per cent men and 10 per cent women across the board. In biological sciences, there are about the same number of men and women in the beginning. But around their late 20s to early 30s, women begin to drop out to the extent that by the stage of professor, the rate is just as bad for the physical sciences.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jul/01/science.comment

That's why special grants for women in Science piss me off, you are paying more for less.

Cuddlesworth · 16-08-2010 04:49PM

spurious wrote: »

Why is it when there is any sort of attempt here at a discussion of gender differences like this, or the 'dangerous' young male driver discussion, or the disgracefully high level of young male suicide in this country, it ends up with guys slagging women off, usually throwing in a few mentions of periods or blood rather than addressing the issue?

Have you nothing useful to add?
Do you not worry that so many of your gender are not coping with the main selction process for university and with education in general?
Do you not think it might not be such a good thing for a large majority of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. in the future to be women?
Or for so many young men to experience failure?

Again a major FAIL thread in AH.(shakes head)

What makes you think there are going to be less doctors? Points for it are dropping but its a pretty high baseline, so its something you are going to specifically aim for which would negate the "not studying" argument.

Most boys I went to school with didn't know what they wanted so didn't bother studying. A pointless exam and hours of time seemed useless to me and others. I can't say my lackluster performance in my LC(245) has impacted my career path in any way. I would probably be in a much worse job and would not have had the money or time to actually become interested in something and end up in a job/career I enjoy if I had stayed in the number of college courses I tried. Plus the wealth of experience I have acquired from working in a number of sectors.

johnmcdnl · 16-08-2010 04:50PM

The leaving cert suits people who study like **** - not genuinely clever people who have high IQs but are just that wee bit on the lazy side - I know from my own school that there's several lads who are smart ****ers but studying isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world for them so there going to be beaten by the averagely clever girls who spent 4 times as long studying as them...

lads just aren't suited to sitting down and studying stuff and reciting it back in an exam - there more suited to actually understanding stuff I think

I don't think it's any coincident that most of the leading figures in nearly every way of life are men - men just don't do well when it comes to studying and the average results of the clever lads are brought down by the complete usless eijits who don't care about the leaving at all because there going to work on the building sites as soon as the leavin is over - there's no girls that I know with that attitude really so all girls tend to study that bit harder

I don't care about those average results because they don't take into account the lads who are only doin the leaving because there auld lad is making them do it before they go for work etc etc...
if those lads were taken out of the figures it'd be interesting to see what the average results for students who "make an effort" to do well to see would girls out preform lads in that situation

phasers · 16-08-2010 04:51PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

If the first part of your post is true then this only happened around six months ago and only a small minority of you lied.

I can't follow your male logic

Overheal · 16-08-2010 04:54PM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Co-incidentally, boys do 4 times more fapping than girls.

The mind boggles ...

beat me to the beating off reference.

SuperInfinity · 16-08-2010 05:04PM

derfderf wrote: »

I wouldn't call basing my opinion on my own experience ignorant at all. Neither of us has the full facts. I wasn't a particularly bad student but i'd have a pot on my head as quick as the next lad.

You were saying that for guys in general. You can't speak for everyone like that, so yes it is ill-informed if you really believe that.

I know many guys who wouldn't dream of ever doing that. Who would stick their heads in their books and talk far less than girls.

And it's not funny, just disrespectful to say males, ANY males are going around with pots on their heads for no reason. I can't see the humour in that.

If there's any sexism here it's predominantly against males with some people not even realising they're doing it.

podgemonster · 16-08-2010 05:17PM

The perfect example to help explain what most of the lads on this forum are saying is honours maths!

Unlike most subjects learning honours maths doesn't consist of learning off pages of notes/quotes/dates/definitions and regurgitating them in exams.

Maths requires a certain understanding, a reasoning. Males can see this, they see the patterns, they see the curves and slopes. In maths exams the most valuable questions markwise are brand new puzzle like questions which the student has not seen before and must use his understanding to solve. This unpredicable and unpractised question is there to panic and prove the students understanding.

Many girls I know got +500 but the majority weren't capable of doing the honours maths papers. Many lads i know that did got 400+

I also find that girls can become more competitive than boys. Boys are more competitive for 60 minute sports or racing or downing pints but not over the long term. The girls are long term dedicators, in fact I would almost call it obsessive, which grows to where a girl would not relax or forgive herself for wasting an evening by not studying.

This obseesion comes from their yearning to be better than their counterparts, to impress, to be wanted. I would go as far as to prove tha they are infact better than men but unfortunately have to work very hard to do so.

Most guys do not see it this way, they see it a necessary step not the defining moment of your life.

Millicent · 16-08-2010 05:29PM

podgemonster wrote: »

The perfect example to help explain what most of the lads on this forum are saying is honours maths!

Unlike most subjects learning honours maths doesn't consist of learning off pages of notes/quotes/dates/definitions and regurgitating them in exams.

Maths requires a certain understanding, a reasoning. Males can see this, they see the patterns, they see the curves and slopes. In maths exams the most valuable questions markwise are brand new puzzle like questions which the student has not seen before and must use his understanding to solve. This unpredicable and unpractised question is there to panic and prove the students understanding.

Many girls I know got +500 but the majority weren't capable of doing the honours maths papers. Many lads i know that did got 400+

I also find that girls can become more competitive than boys. Boys are more competitive for 60 minute sports or racing or downing pints but not over the long term. The girls are long term dedicators, in fact I would almost call it obsessive, which grows to where a girl would not relax or forgive herself for wasting an evening by not studying.

This obseesion comes from their yearning to be better than their counterparts, to impress, to be wanted. I would go as far as to prove tha they are infact better than men but unfortunately have to work very hard to do so.

Most guys do not see it this way, they see it a necessary step not the defining moment of your life.

Haven't girls been outdoing boys in Maths in recent years? According to the Irish Times anyway.

Millicent · 16-08-2010 05:30PM

SuperInfinity wrote: »

You were saying that for guys in general. You can't speak for everyone like that, so yes it is ill-informed if you really believe that.

I know many guys who wouldn't dream of ever doing that. Who would stick their heads in their books and talk far less than girls.

And it's not funny, just disrespectful to say males, ANY males are going around with pots on their heads for no reason. I can't see the humour in that.

If there's any sexism here it's predominantly against males with some people not even realising they're doing it.

Can you honestly say you can't see sexism on the other side here at all? Because I really find that hard to believe.

podgemonster · 16-08-2010 05:42PM

Millicent wrote: »

Haven't girls been outdoing boys in Maths in recent years? According to the Irish Times anyway.

Well the girls who do stick in there and attempt the honours maths paper do have what it takes and can do aswell if not better than other lads, though they will spent alot more time practising math than than the lads, its their nature.

While the results are one thing, the amount of boys who sit compared to the girls is almost always swayed largly in the boys direction. And yet girls who can do honours almost every subject are unable to do honours maths.

Girls unlike boys will not take risks, the maths paper can be random and unpredictable. Hence those that do the paper are confident and therefore do well.

sock puppet · 16-08-2010 05:44PM

SuperInfinity wrote: »

They are just like the pets of whoever is making the exams.

No sexism there whatsoever.

Millicent · 16-08-2010 05:47PM

podgemonster wrote: »

Well the girls who do stick in there and attempt the honours maths paper do have what it takes and can do aswell if not better than other lads, though they will spent alot more time practising math than than the lads, its their nature.

While the results are one thing, the amount of boys who sit compared to the girls is almost always swayed largly in the boys direction. And yet girls who can do honours almost every subject are unable to do honours maths.

Girls unlike boys will not take risks, the maths paper can be random and unpredictable. Hence those that do the paper are confident and therefore do well.

I think you're straying into very dangerous territory by assigning particular behaviours to either gender. It is not in either gender's "nature" to necessarily perform tasks in a certain way-- such thinking has been proven to be a fallacy in years gone by. Girls are not necessarily risk-adverse either, the ones you know may just weigh up the risks in a similar way.

I'd need to see statistics to be convinced that more boys do honours maths tbh.

My thinking on the divide is that perhaps it has more to do with lads being encouraged to do trades, more so than girls are, which do not require high points to get into, just a Leaving Cert. That could explain some of the gender divide.

goose2005 · 16-08-2010 05:51PM

Millicent wrote: »

Haven't girls been outdoing boys in Maths in recent years? According to the Irish Times anyway.

The article actually says "In higher maths, 82.1 per cent of girls got honours, while just 2.5 per cent failed. In the same subject, 79.5 per cent of boys got honours, but 4 per cent failed."

But it doesn't say how many girls did HL maths compared to boys. Statistics fail.

SugarHigh · 16-08-2010 05:53PM

Millicent wrote: »

Haven't girls been outdoing boys in Maths in recent years? According to the Irish Times anyway.

That doesn't give the figure of how many girls sat the higher exam. Taking honours maths is pretty risky and it could just be that more men had the guts to do it while only the most confident girls did.

The Irish Time had the figures for the number of girls who sat the higher maths exam but decided not to publish them, was it because they went against the theme of the article?

Millicent · 16-08-2010 05:53PM

goose2005 wrote: »

The article actually says "In higher maths, 82.1 per cent of girls got honours, while just 2.5 per cent failed. In the same subject, 79.5 per cent of boys got honours, but 4 per cent failed."

But it doesn't say how many girls did HL maths compared to boys. Statistics fail.

How do my statistics fail? If you bothered to read the above post, you would see I was interested in seeing how many of each gender took honours maths. Comprehension fail.

Unless you're referring to the Irish Times' statistics fail in which case I apologise!

Millicent · 16-08-2010 05:54PM

SugarHigh wrote: »

That doesn't give the figure of how many girls sat the higher exam. Taking honours maths is pretty risky and it could just be that more men had the guts to do it while only the most confident girls did.

The Irish Time had the figures for the number of girls who sat the higher maths exam but decided not to publish them, was it because they went against the theme of the article?

Possibly. I have addressed that. I would be curious to see what the actual rates are.

Louthdrog · 16-08-2010 05:56PM

Sat my leaving cert last year and am just finished my first year in college. Doing a science/maths based course. If i compare my male and female friends to each other, the same trend is noticeable. The girls study themselves into the ground, really put the work in. The lads are a lot more laid back, do the required amount to just get by. As it stands most of my male friends are at home with not a worry in the world while the girls are studying hard for repeats in the morning. Went to an all boys school so cant really comment on the leaving cert. Seems there is something about a girls character that they get more worked up and worried about exams. Proves aswell that there is such a thing as too much study.

podgemonster · 16-08-2010 05:59PM

Millicent wrote: »

I think you're straying into very dangerous territory by assigning particular behaviours to either gender. It is not in either gender's "nature" to necessarily perform tasks in a certain way-- such thinking has been proven to be a fallacy in years gone by. Girls are not necessarily risk-adverse either, the ones you know may just weigh up the risks in a similar way.

I'd need to see statistics to be convinced that more boys do honours maths tbh.

My thinking on the divide is that perhaps it has more to do with lads being encouraged to do trades, more so than girls are, which do not require high points to get into, just a Leaving Cert. That could explain some of the gender divide.

The trade thing is a fair point but i would go as far as to say that the majority boys don't take it as seriously as the majority of girls. Thats not to say they don't take its seriously just not as much as the opposite sex, and there are expections of course.

And as far as i was aware it's a well known fact that boys are greater risk takers than girls.
http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/23/1/33.pdf

SugarHigh · 16-08-2010 06:00PM

Millicent wrote: »

Possibly. I have addressed that. I would be curious to see what the actual rates are.

http://www.examinations.ie/statistics/statistics_2009/leaving_certificate_higher_level_gender_statistics_2009.pdf

Female: 3739
Male: 4681

The Irish Time article clearly had an agenda of putting women above men, which is seen as completely acceptable but the reverse could see a male journalist fired.

Lyra Fangs · 16-08-2010 06:01PM

There are far too many sexist comments in this thread, can we not just have a simple discussion without dragging either gender through the mud.

SuperInfinity · 16-08-2010 06:01PM

Who cares anyway, it's not like the leaving cert means anything.

sock puppet · 16-08-2010 06:04PM

SugarHigh wrote: »

That doesn't give the figure of how many girls sat the higher exam. Taking honours maths is pretty risky and it could just be that more men had the guts to do it while only the most confident girls did.

The Irish Time had the figures for the number of girls who sat the higher maths exam but decided not to publish them, was it because they went against the theme of the article?

True they should have added up those figures. Roughly 18% of males who do maths sit the honours paper while about 15% of females sit it.

source

Millicent · 16-08-2010 06:05PM

podgemonster wrote: »

The trade thing is a fair point but i would go as far as to say that the majority boys don't take it as seriously as the majority of girls. Thats not to say they don't take its seriously just not as much as the opposite sex, and there are expections of course.

And as far as i was aware it's a well known fact that boys are greater risk takers than girls.
http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/23/1/33.pdf

Actually, good point on that. A lot of it is apparently (according to that link) down to different socialisation between the genders. I was referring to inherent (innate) behaviour but true, learned behaviour might have an impact. So perhaps girls are being encouraged to worry more about things like exams?

I have to say though, I've been to five different secondary schools (we moved a lot!), both mixed and single sex, and I have never seen a huge disparity between the studying habits of either gender. There are studious people of both gender but tbh, I think that 4 hour survey statistic is skewed-- I don't know many people who studied that much every night. That has to include homework or else I'm calling shenanigans.

Girls doing 4 times as much study as boys.

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