ROS VRT What's going on?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 16-09-2010 10:27am #1

Just wondering if anybody knows what's going on with VRT on ROS? I've been looking at 320d's across the pond and the VRT keeps going up and up.. 2 weeks ago it was €1060 for a 2003 320d ES with 130k miles. This week it's over €1600 for the same model same details. Should this not be going in the other way? The omsp is also way off.

Viper_JB · 16-09-2010 10:34am

Lamar Purple Resistance wrote: »

The omsp is also way off.

Unfortunitly the osmp is set by SIMI a group consisting of irish car dealers, it's not in their interests to set realistic prices for importing cars. It's pretty weird that the price went up though.

Seth Brundle · 16-09-2010 10:40am

I recall hearing that the more a specific type of car is checked on the calculator, the more likely the VRT is to go up.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 16-09-2010 10:41am

kbannon wrote: »

I recall hearing that the more a specific type of car is checked on the calculator, the more likely the VRT is to go up.

where did you hear that?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 16-09-2010 10:44am

Viper_JB wrote: »

Unfortunitly the osmp is set by SIMI a group consisting of irish car dealers, it's not in their interests to set realistic prices for importing cars. It's pretty weird that the price went up though.

Yeah it is strange alright as the simi dealers are selling them for less than the omsp they are recommending. Corruption in Ireland? Shock fupping horror.

DonJose · 16-09-2010 11:01am

kbannon wrote: »

I recall hearing that the more a specific type of car is checked on the calculator, the more likely the VRT is to go up.

I heard they did that on airline websites but surely they can't do it on ROS.

CKurtz · 16-09-2010 11:32am

Sorry for jumping in on this thread but I'm just back from the NCT centre to get my car registered/VRT'd. I brought it in from the UK.

Details: BMW 330i SE manual Estate
Year: 2000
Mileage: 130000

Ros VRT = 728
VRT that NCT want me to pay = 2500

I refused to pay as its not worth my while - I'll probably sell it back in the UK. I was told if I did pay I could then initiate an appeals process - but I could only appeal if I pay the amount i.e. no pay no appeal. The idea of going through an appeals process with our public servants is not something I'd have the patience for.

I asked about the inconsistency between the ROS calculation and the actual - I was told "we use a different system to ROS" :rolleyes:.

This is a complete joke - it's a 10 year old 3 litre petrol car with 130k on the clock!! You can pick up a 2000 740i for around 3k.

If anyone has any recommendations I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks for reading.

Seth Brundle · 16-09-2010 11:35am

Lamar Purple Resistance wrote: »

where did you hear that?

Rumourmill

DonJose wrote: »

I heard they did that on airline websites but surely they can't do it on ROS.

Its the revenue - they can do what they like!

kildare.17hmr · 16-09-2010 11:40am

CKurtz wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in on this thread but I'm just back from the NCT centre to get my car registered/VRT'd. I brought it in from the UK.

Details: BMW 330i SE manual Estate
Year: 2000
Mileage: 130000

Ros VRT = 728
VRT that NCT want me to pay = 2500

I refused to pay as its not worth my while - I'll probably sell it back in the UK. I was told if I did pay I could then initiate an appeals process - but I could only appeal if I pay the amount i.e. no pay no appeal. The idea of going through an appeals process with our public servants is not something I'd have the patience for.

I asked about the inconsistency between the ROS calculation and the actual - I was told "we use a different system to ROS" :rolleyes:.

This is a complete joke - it's a 10 year old 3 litre petrol car with 130k on the clock!! You can pick up a 2000 740i for around 3k.

If anyone has any recommendations I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks for reading.

What was the open market selling price they had for your car?

Atomic Pineapple · 16-09-2010 11:52am

kbannon wrote: »

Rumourmill

Thats been reported a lot of other forums, the more you check a particular car the higher they raise the OMSP as its viewed as being more desirable, crazy.

mullingar · 16-09-2010 11:58am

The VRT is simply calculated as the emissions % of the OMSP.

The 330i attracts an emissions VRT of 32%.

So according to that VRT price quoted, they reckon the OMSP is €7812. :eek::eek:

Edit:

VRT online has the OMSP @ 2276, VRT = € 728. Stat code:41985301

LOL, The NCT VRT quote is CHEAPER than the Revenue's OMSP of the car

Edit 2:

The appeals can be done in 6 weeks max. I know, I did during the boom last year. I got €600 back once it went to the stage 2 appeal. If you need more info on my successful appeal let me know

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 16-09-2010 12:12pm

draffodx wrote: »

Thats been reported a lot of other forums, the more you check a particular car the higher they raise the OMSP as its viewed as being more desirable, crazy.

I'm gonna start looking at old Skoda fabias so. With any luck you should be able to get one for less than 20k when I'm done.

CKurtz · 16-09-2010 12:16pm

Thanks for the replies.

Re OMSP: on the Declaration form they give you to sign there is no reference to the OMSP - just the VRT amount - which is a bit suspicious. I didn't ask at the time as I was in too much of a state of shock.

I presume all is calculated based on how Mullingar outlines it.

Also on the Declaration form there is no mention of the age of the car ... just model, mileage etc. Again very suspicious (it's as if the year of the car is not taken into consideration).

Guy:Incognito · 16-09-2010 12:21pm

I'd say the guy misread the OMSP as the VRT amount and either didnt notice or didnt want to admit his mistake so just rode it out.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 16-09-2010 1:46pm

From the NCT website. (This should go into the scam thread)

You may be able to obtain an estimate of the VRT due from the Vehicle Registration on-line Enquiry System. While Revenue maintains an accurate valuation for all vehicles on its database, because of the variety of makes, models and versions available, the vehicle presented for registration at an NCT centre may differ significantly from a similar one on Revenue’s database resulting in a significant difference in the VRT charged to the amount you expected.

homer90 · 16-09-2010 2:28pm

Lamar Purple Resistance wrote: »

From the NCT website. (This should go into the scam thread)

You may be able to obtain an estimate of the VRT due from the Vehicle Registration on-line Enquiry System. While Revenue maintains an accurate valuation for all vehicles on its database, because of the variety of makes, models and versions available, the vehicle presented for registration at an NCT centre may differ significantly from a similar one on Revenue’s database resulting in a significant difference in the VRT charged to the amount you expected.

While Revenue maintains an accurate valuation for all vehicles on its database.....

.... the vehicle presented for registration at an NCT centre may differ significantly from a similar one on Revenue’s database

:rolleyes:

So, you wont have a clue what VRT is gonna be, until the car is presented an an NCT centre.....

FFS

Stevie Dakota · 16-09-2010 2:30pm

Lamar Purple Resistance wrote: »

From the NCT website. (This should go into the scam thread)

You may be able to obtain an estimate of the VRT due from the Vehicle Registration on-line Enquiry System. While Revenue maintains an accurate valuation for all vehicles on its database, because of the variety of makes, models and versions available, the vehicle presented for registration at an NCT centre may differ significantly from a similar one on Revenue’s database resulting in a significant difference in the VRT charged to the amount you expected.

That's outrageous, so is the ROS site not worth a damn anymore?

Seth Brundle · 16-09-2010 2:33pm

It never really was!

Anan1 · 16-09-2010 2:33pm

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

That's outrageous, so is the ROS site not worth a damn anymore?

Of course it is - a figure for a specific model on the ROS website should allow you to extrapolate a relatively accurate figure for a slightly different specification.

CKurtz · 16-09-2010 3:48pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Of course it is - a figure for a specific model on the ROS website should allow you to extrapolate a relatively accurate figure for a slightly different specification.

You'd want serious powers of extrapolation to come up with an actual rate of €2500 from a ROS quoted €728. Particularly when mine is a standard SE model i.e. it doesn't have sunroof, electric seats etc.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 17-09-2010 8:31am

CKurtz wrote: »

You'd want serious powers of extrapolation to come up with an actual rate of €2500 from a ROS quoted €728. Particularly when mine is a standard SE model i.e. it doesn't have sunroof, electric seats etc.

What a scam. So let me get this straight. You do your budget, figure out you'll go for the SE lets say over the sport because of the vrt ROS quote you for both. You present your se spec at the nct center and get hit for a grand over budget? What will you do with the car? Bring it back to England? This is a scam. It also states that you have to provide a dated invoice. So what about private sales then?

CKurtz · 17-09-2010 9:42am

Scam - it's a complete racket.

"get hit for a grand over budget?" - I'm getting hit for nearly two grand over budget (€1772 to be precise).

Invoice: It was a private sale - so you just sign a piece of paper saying how much you paid for the car. I was being honest and said I paid 4K for the car.

I'm not going to bring it in now - I'll sell it back in the UK. Which is a shame as it's absolutely beautiful (it's an SE with AC Schnitzer suspension -something the VRT people would not have known) - I was looking for over 6 months for it as the 330i manual estate with sports suspension is quite rare.

It's a complete scam - they are just trying to create uncertainty in the VRT process so that people will be less likely to import cars from the UK. As in, would I import a car again? - Not a hope. Would I recommend to someone to import a car? - Not a hope.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 17-09-2010 9:59am

CKurtz wrote: »

Scam - it's a complete racket.

"get hit for a grand over budget?" - I'm getting hit for nearly two grand over budget (€1772 to be precise).

Invoice: It was a private sale - so you just sign a piece of paper saying how much you paid for the car. I was being honest and said I paid 4K for the car.

I'm not going to bring it in now - I'll sell it back in the UK. Which is a shame as it's absolutely beautiful (it's an SE with AC Schnitzer suspension -something the VRT people would not have known) - I was looking for over 6 months for it as the 330i manual estate with sports suspension is quite rare.

It's a complete scam - they are just trying to create uncertainty in the VRT process so that people will be less likely to import cars from the UK. As in, would I import a car again? - Not a hope. Would I recommend to someone to import a car? - Not a hope.

Yeah you are correct there about their intentions. Call Joe Duffy

Anan1 · 17-09-2010 10:45am

CKurtz wrote: »

You'd want serious powers of extrapolation to come up with an actual rate of €2500 from a ROS quoted €728. Particularly when mine is a standard SE model i.e. it doesn't have sunroof, electric seats etc.

That is well off. Is this current? If so, can you post the exact car details? Not saying you did, but i've heard lots of stories of people inadvertently entering the wrong details on the ROS website - E36 instead of E46, that sort of thing.

Tigger · 17-09-2010 11:03am

i just entered it and got very close figures

i reckon he read out the omsp not the vrt

Tigger · 17-09-2010 11:04am

kbannon wrote: »

It never really was!

i've imported about 6 time sand always paid nearly or acually exactly what the vrt calculator gave me

so i dont know what you mean

Seth Brundle · 17-09-2010 11:31am

I don't believe that the VRT calculator accurately reflects the Irish prices of cars and for that reason, I don't think its worth a damn.

CKurtz · 17-09-2010 12:07pm

Anan1 wrote: »

That is well off. Is this current? If so, can you post the exact car details? Not saying you did, but i've heard lots of stories of people inadvertently entering the wrong details on the ROS website - E36 instead of E46, that sort of thing.

BMW e46 330i SE
Year:2000 (July)
manual
estate
petrol
130000 miles

I thought the girl in the NCT had made a mistake ... but she just shook her head and said "no mistake". Anyway it would be fairly difficult to mix up the VRT and the OMSP because on the "Declaration" form printout the OMSP is suspiciously absent. It seems to be all done on the VIN number.

They basically take the VIN number, slice and dice it to see what the car has. Which is a joke on a 10 year old car because the VIN number is not going to tell you what shape the suspension is in, tyre condition, if the gear box is hanging off the thing, whether its been Cat D'd etc.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark - I tell you.

Voodoomelon · 17-09-2010 12:16pm

This new system stinks to high heaven. Having said that, do 90% of appeals for VRT overcharging get overturned?

CJhaughey · 17-09-2010 12:18pm

SIMI lobbying must have worked then!

Tigger · 17-09-2010 12:21pm

kbannon wrote: »

I don't believe that the VRT calculator accurately reflects the Irish prices of cars and for that reason, I don't think its worth a damn.

no but at least it used to tell you how much vasaline to bring

mbyrnes · 17-09-2010 12:34pm

Went to NCT today after checking the ROS VRT system a few times. ROS looking for 2300 Euro for 2003 C220 CDi auto elegance SE with 115000 on the clock. NCT guy wanted 4100 Euro ??? Car on its way back to UK... Someone needs to highlight this to the powers that be. NCT ripping us off. Sick of it..

Voodoomelon · 17-09-2010 12:39pm

Jesus, this is a joke. Can you go to the NCT centre before you bring in the car and get a quote there?

mbyrnes · 17-09-2010 12:46pm

Don't think so.. They need to inspect the car first to verify VIN and that the car is what is stated on the log book.. so you need log book and car together..

Tigger · 17-09-2010 12:55pm

so you can no longer import decent cars?
is that the plan

Viper_JB · 17-09-2010 1:28pm

Tigger wrote: »

so you can no longer import decent cars?
is that the plan

Unless you're a garage, that seems to be the goal of this exercise - make it unrealistic to avail of free trade between EU member states, same old rubbish, by using a misrepresented illegal tax or "Regristration fee". I guess they have to do something, there would be no Irish garages left in the country if there were no penelties or fees involved in bringing cars into the Irish market, no one would be bothered paying the Irish prices for them.

madalig12 · 17-09-2010 2:51pm

Ok so my dad bought a citroen c5 up north, the guy selling it checked the site(ros) to bring her down was to be 1770euro, he lands at NCT in Letterkenny and they're looking for 2850! Needless to say he wasn't happy and asked her to check the details she entered, she refused so he left. Arrived here a tad cross and asked me to re-check the website which i did and his figure is correct, now I'm hearing the scam comments and i'm sure it is one but anyway she had given him a number...(i don't have it as he took it home) but its a revenue helpline, got a nice woman and she put in the details of the car and came up with the same number as the nct centre...the verification number at the top was exactly the same for my figure as it was for her's.....she started to tell me to pay the higher amount then claim it as incorrect, then said hang on and came back a few minutes later saying that she'd call back and to tell customs/garda if stopped that we were dealing with her...she said there was a fault and that she had logged it regarding that car.....so i'm thinking that NCT have saw a gap in the scam market and have decided to cash in! I'll keep this informed when she gets back to us.

homer90 · 17-09-2010 3:30pm

:mad:

Seems my plan to import may be put on ICE for a while ........

Its one thing after another ... :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

-Corkie- · 17-09-2010 4:02pm

I imported a car two years ago and the Ros website told me the vrt was €5,700. I drove the car on uk plates for two weeks and went into the cork office to clear it and was told the vrt was €5,950. I said feck that so two weeks later I was stopped by a customs officer and he seized the car on me..:) I told him my story that I was goin clearing it that week. He made a few calls and said he didnt want to take my car so I told him I would pay him by cheque there and then. He said ok that he would find out the amount with his colleague. He came back 5 minutes later and said it would cost me €5,150 to clear it...:)

Needless to say I paid him there on the spot and he left me drive away..

daRobot · 17-09-2010 4:30pm

WTF is going on with this? Why are there massive discrepancies between the revenue calculator and the NCT system.

This country is pathetically incompetent.

Gypo · 17-09-2010 4:42pm

Hi Guys,

I've been reading this thread with interest as VRT is one of my pet hates for the sheer unfairness of it all. The fact that people are now being asked to pay far more than the quote they get from ROS is very worrying indeed.

Slightly OT, but the fact a person is not able to appeal without first paying the VRT due seems it might be in contravention of the legislation the VRT appeals process is based on.

If you look at the Appeals Procedure on www.revenue.ie it does seem to state that you must first pay the VRT due before you can appeal.

The amount of VRT charged by the Revenue Commissioners in respect of the registration or conversion of a vehicle, typically these are matters arising from the valuation of vehicles or their classification for VRT purposes.The VRT due in such cases must be paid before an appeal can be entertained

However if you look first at Section 45(1) of the Finance Act 2001

Any person who has paid or who, in the opinion of the Commissioners, is liable to pay a duty of excise and is called on by them to pay an amount of such duty may appeal in accordance with this section against the decision concerned in respect of the liability or the amount of the duty.

where it clearly says anyone who is liable to pay a duty, not anyone who has paid a duty and secondly Section 98(e) on page 250 of the Finance Act 2000

2(A) Any person who is the subject of any of the following acts of the Commissioners:
........
(e) a determination of an open market selling
price of a vehicle under section 133(2) of
the Finance Act, 1992, or
........
may appeal against such an act to the Commissioners.’’;

where it says a determination of an OMSP, not they payment.

Perhaps somebody on the Motors forum who's looked at this before (been down that road!) or somebody who has legal experience could comment?

rugbyman · 17-09-2010 5:50pm

madalig12 wrote: »

Ok so my dad bought a citroen c5 up north, the guy selling it checked the site(ros) to bring her down was to be 1770euro, he lands at NCT in Letterkenny and they're looking for 2850! Needless to say he wasn't happy and asked her to check the details she entered, she refused so he left. Arrived here a tad cross and asked me to re-check the website which i did and his figure is correct, now I'm hearing the scam comments and i'm sure it is one but anyway she had given him a number...(i don't have it as he took it home) but its a revenue helpline, got a nice woman and she put in the details of the car and came up with the same number as the nct centre...the verification number at the top was exactly the same for my figure as it was for her's.....she started to tell me to pay the higher amount then claim it as incorrect, then said hang on and came back a few minutes later saying that she'd call back and to tell customs/garda if stopped that we were dealing with her...she said there was a fault and that she had logged it regarding that car.....so i'm thinking that NCT have saw a gap in the scam market and have decided to cash in! I'll keep this informed when she gets back to us.

Pretty decent of the customs woman.!

Rugbyman

Gatster · 17-09-2010 6:25pm

Not that I think I'll get any sort of explanation but I emailed info@ncts.ie to ask why there is such a difference.

dunsandin · 17-09-2010 6:55pm

Went to an auction in the north with a mate who was going for a van - at auction, saw a clean 01 Astra panel van, and it was making very small money, so I stuck in a bid(via mate who had bidding number). Toddled across to the vrt office in tullamore clutching my €50 note, to pay the commercial vrt - ok so, that'l be €1750.00 said the nice lady. Que?? "well, you could easily convert it BACK into a car" she says. Its a bloomin van, says I, it never was a car, and never will be a car. "well, €1750 please"says she. Yeah, vans worth about €1200 on a good day, so obviously, €1750 is a fair rate of vrt to pay on it, NOT. OMSP me hewel. And, its funny how the ros calculator has never heard of a lot of types of vehicles when you try and get an estimate, but when you go in to register it, the computer they use has no problem spitting out a rate. Odious tax, anti competitive and protectionist.

Shane732 · 17-09-2010 7:40pm

The whole thing is a complete joke....

People getting screwed for €2k extra in VRT on a car that is hardly worth that is just madness.

Imagine what they'll try and charge if you bring something expensive in - if you bring a car that's worth €50K in then they'll probably be trying to charge €200K VRT on it!

I wonder would the cops do anything if you called them while clearing the car and reporting a robbery.....

Fuc*ers

dunsandin · 17-09-2010 7:46pm

It'd be like that film "anger management" - they'd accuse you of making a scene and being abusive, and you'd be nicked.

Gatster · 17-09-2010 8:39pm

Just out of interest then, if a car isn't on the ROS site, who do you contact now to get a price?

dunsandin · 17-09-2010 8:48pm

From what people have said, go to psychic Sally, she'd have as much idea as anyone.

Esel · 17-09-2010 11:21pm

CKurtz wrote: »

Scam - it's a complete racket.

"get hit for a grand over budget?" - I'm getting hit for nearly two grand over budget (€1772 to be precise).

Invoice: It was a private sale - so you just sign a piece of paper saying how much you paid for the car. I was being honest and said I paid 4K for the car.

I'm not going to bring it in now - I'll sell it back in the UK. Which is a shame as it's absolutely beautiful (it's an SE with AC Schnitzer suspension -something the VRT people would not have known) - I was looking for over 6 months for it as the 330i manual estate with sports suspension is quite rare.

It's a complete scam - they are just trying to create uncertainty in the VRT process so that people will be less likely to import cars from the UK. As in, would I import a car again? - Not a hope. Would I recommend to someone to import a car? - Not a hope.

mbyrnes wrote: »

Went to NCT today after checking the ROS VRT system a few times. ROS looking for 2300 Euro for 2003 C220 CDi auto elegance SE with 115000 on the clock. NCT guy wanted 4100 Euro ??? Car on its way back to UK... Someone needs to highlight this to the powers that be. NCT ripping us off. Sick of it..

I would advise calling the VRO HQ office in Rosslare. The new system is only in place just over 2 weeks, and this may well be a glitch.

Voodoomelon · 18-09-2010 1:04am

Funny, it never seems to be a glitch with undercharging.

I'm seething reading this thread.
What they're essentially saying is "use our sh1te, complicated, non-transparent system in which we pull OMSP prices out of our arses, then charge 150% VRT rates on these made up prices, and if you are mad enough you're more than welcome to contest these rates in which you have a pretty good chance of getting the money back that we shouldn't have charged you in the first place".
:mad:

mikemike · 18-09-2010 9:16am

I'm just wondering , have the overcharging problems arisen only since the NCT took over the system ?

can you still take your car into the local vrt/tax office and clear it that way ? or is thst finished completely ?

ROS VRT What's going on?

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