Religion is "child abuse" ??

rational · 30-09-2010 10:42PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

bad2dabone wrote: »

I lack belief in the Tooth Fairy. I believe in the Tooth Fairy.

What?

I need a lie down.

Have I not explained this to the guy using the uniorn analogy.

Mark Hamill · 30-09-2010 10:42PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

Constructive debate there alright.

rational wrote: »

No, lacking the belief is the belief. Its a belief in its self.

rational wrote: »

Good constructive debate again.

rational wrote: »

How profound.

You're trolling, I'm bored, I'll come back tomorrow and see if someone more interesting is posting.
Anyone want to give me odds on whether rational will still be able to post here by then? :pac:

rational · 30-09-2010 10:43PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

mohawk wrote: »

Beliving in god on its own is not a belief system. However if you were to include a book, adhering to some rituals, rule to follow maybe even throw in some religous leaders etc you will have a belief system. In simple language belief in god is part of the belief system not the belief system.
On the other hand a lack of believing in god is not on its own a belief system.

So there is no common characteristics by which atheists define themselves. No ways in which atheists come together and share values etc?

mohawk · 30-09-2010 10:46PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

So there is no common characteristics by which atheists define themselves. No ways in which atheists come together and share values etc?

Shares values?? Prehaps if were to give me an example of one I might be able to address you question.

bad2dabone · 30-09-2010 10:47PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

So there is no common characteristics by which atheists define themselves.

The thing that is common among atheists is that atheists don't believe in a god or gods. There is no other unifying factor. It is not a belief system. It is simply "ATHEISTS DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD"

Is that such a hard thing to comprehend??

rational · 30-09-2010 10:50PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You're trolling, I'm bored, I'll come back tomorrow and see if someone more interesting is posting.
Anyone want to give me odds on whether rational will still be able to post here by then? :pac:

All those quotes have a context and taking them out of that context is inself a form of trolling.

I am up for reasoned argument and I have probably more in common with the views of atheists than religious people.

iguana · 30-09-2010 10:51PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Des Carter wrote: »

Apologies for my laziness. The Question was:

Specifically with regard to whether I would believe that my children would have had a better up-bringing than any children of theirs who they raise as a particular religion then yes of course they would have. (In that regard, my children could easily be better as parents in other aspects.) If I raised my children in an open-minded way that makes it easy for them to find a faith that really fits for them then that's given them a wonderful opportunity. But they would then be denying their children the same opportunity as the fact is what works for us may not work for our children.

However unless we are talking about serious abuse (and I'd include genital mutilation with the exception of medically advised circumcision), it's not really my business. It's my job to raise my children to the best of our ability and the next generation is out of our hands. We are entitled to give our opinion where asked for it but not otherwise.

We can't control what our descendants do and if we think we can it's worth noting that men as diverse as George Bush and Richard Dawkins are both the great-great-eversomanygreats-grandsons of the same man. And a hell of a lot more recently than Y-Chromasonal Adam.

rational · 30-09-2010 10:54PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

bad2dabone wrote: »

The thing that is common among atheists is that atheists don't believe in a god or gods. There is no other unifying factor. It is not a belief system. It is simply "ATHEISTS DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD"

Is that such a hard thing to comprehend??

No unifying factor?

SO a board like this is not a unifying factor?
http://www.atheist.ie/ Not a unifying factor
http://www.ehow.com/how_2090411_plan-atheist-wedding.html Not a unifying factor?

I could go on.

why personally insult me by asking me is that so hard to comprehend? Why is it that so called rational atheists get so hot under the collar and resort to insults when a person simply challenges some assumptions?

rational · 30-09-2010 10:57PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

iguana wrote: »

Specifically with regard to whether I would believe that my children would have had a better up-bringing than any children of theirs who they raise as a particular religion then yes of course they would have.

By and large your post makes a lot of sense but how can you be so sure of this?

Mr Benevolent · 30-09-2010 10:58PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

I'm an atheist too, but some atheists seem to know more about religion then the Catholic church. A bit like how the Catholic church knows more about Satan than anyone else really. Why do people go on about atheism anyway? It's a choice, beyond that it's not important. No-one really cares if you're an atheist. It's not a stance anymore, it's not shocking like it used to be.

Anyone who cares this much about atheism is using it as a religion substitute. Something you can really believe in, eh?

iguana · 30-09-2010 10:58PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

SO a board like this is not a unifying factor?
http://www.atheist.ie/ Not a unifying factor
http://www.ehow.com/how_2090411_plan-atheist-wedding.html Not a unifying factor?

So what you are trying to say is that atheists are internet geeks?

bad2dabone · 30-09-2010 11:00PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

A discussion forum does not constitute a belief system, or a unifying factor. Atheism is not a religion. You're trying to make good on the illogical statements regarding belief systems which you have previously posted in this thread. i'm not insulting you, there's no need to be so sensitive.

I'm sure you're a very decent person, if it comes across that I've insulted you then I apologise, it was not my intention.

mohawk · 30-09-2010 11:06PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

No unifying factor?

SO a board like this is not a unifying factor?
http://www.atheist.ie/ Not a unifying factor
http://www.ehow.com/how_2090411_plan-atheist-wedding.html Not a unifying factor?

I could go on.

Not all atheists in Ireland use boards so it is not a unifying factor. And we are quite capable of having differing views.
In your first link you refer to the Origin of Specious Nonsense. Yes most of us think May is nuts but so many religious people. Not all religous people are creationists. So evolution is not unique to us the way the bible is common to christians.
Whats your point with the second link?? Some atheists marry religous people so get married in a church. Some atheists have civil ceromonies.

iguana · 30-09-2010 11:12PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

By and large your post makes a lot of sense but how can you be so sure of this?

I explain that in the next sentence.

rational · 30-09-2010 11:12PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

how can you be so sure of this?

rational · 30-09-2010 11:14PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

iguana wrote: »

So what you are trying to say is that atheists are internet geeks?

No they share common values come together in groups etc a it like people of religion.

rational · 30-09-2010 11:18PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

bad2dabone wrote: »

A discussion forum does not constitute a belief system, or a unifying factor. Atheism is not a religion. You're trying to make good on the illogical statements regarding belief systems which you have previously posted in this thread. i'm not insulting you, there's no need to be so sensitive.

I'm sure you're a very decent person, if it comes across that I've insulted you then I apologise, it was not my intention.

Apology accepted.

A discussion fourm does not constitute a belief system but when people of a similar set of beliefs gather to one point then it constitutes a community and a community with similar beliefs is a unifying factor.

iguana · 30-09-2010 11:19PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

No they share common values come together in groups etc a it like people of religion.

Boards also has a Top Gear forum.

bad2dabone · 30-09-2010 11:21PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

rational wrote: »

No they share common values come together in groups etc a it like people of religion.

I disagree, i don't know what values other Atheists have. I don't converge in groups with Atheists (as for posting on this forum I enjoy reading peoples opinions on both sides of the debate).

Saying that people who come together and share common values are like a religion is incorrect. I'm sure there are musicians who share common values and come together to play music, but its hardly a religion is it?

Des Carter · 30-09-2010 11:28PM

I'm religious and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Sorry, didn't read it properly, didn't see every religion and every detail. My point still stand. You dont need to teach specific details if you can teach them how to take in any details critically.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make all along: I take in all the details and teachings from the bible and critically assess them and I reject them if they fail this critical assessment.

However you were accussing me of cherry-picking ideas so I hope your missinterpretation of how I come to believe some things and reject others has been clarified.

rational · 30-09-2010 11:29PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

iguana wrote: »

Boards also has a Top Gear forum.

Again if you take my words out of context then you can argue just about anything you like.

Atheism has a lot of characteristics that in my opinion seem to make it like a quasi religion. Atheists share common characteristics of belief; they share a zelous riteousness about the certainty of their beliefs and they even share similarities in they way they celebrate key times in terms of rites of passage etc. They gather in communities to reafirm their beliefs (like this one) too and like religion there is hell to pay if someone goes against their assumptions.
And like religion they even have their own Gods.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7WCEOCYrIR0/S8a0YNzLleI/AAAAAAAAA8c/29Mrsuxa4JU/s1600/richard-dawkins.jpg

rational · 30-09-2010 11:34PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Confab wrote: »

Anyone who cares this much about atheism is using it as a religion substitute. Something you can really believe in, eh?

Kind of what I am getting at but said far better than I could have.

bad2dabone · 30-09-2010 11:41PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

I see what you're saying Rational, but Atheism is merely not believing in god. It's not a religion or a way of life. It just is what it is.

btw be careful posting pictures of Lord Dawkins, you might get crowds of angry Atheists protesting outside your house. It's blasphemous to post pictures of the Prophet Dawkins.

ColmDawson · 30-09-2010 11:41PM

rational wrote: »

Kind of what I am getting at but said far better than I could have.

And yet, still rubbish.

Atheism is a product of rational, evidence-based thinking and skepticism. Other traits, which you have so carelessly lumped together in your attempt to make atheism seem like a religion, are likely to be a product of the same interest in rational thinking (or they may be entirely coincidental).

In any case, you are flailing with generalisations. This forum doesn't represent every atheist in Ireland (much less the world), nor does every atheist here agree with and share interests with all of the others.

Several people here don't particularly care for Dawkins, either.

Des Carter · 30-09-2010 11:42PM

I'm religious and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Mark Hamill wrote: »

But how can a child arrive a decision about a religion with honest critical thought, if they have been brought up in that particular religon?

The same way Atheists who have been brought up in a particular religion come to be Atheists I guess.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Thats my point, parents aren't critical and are irrational so they generally dont bring up their children to be rational and critical, hence their kids end up believing what their parents believe. This is the abuse we are talking about. Parents abuse their power over their kids to instil in them their own irrationality and uncritical nature.

If by parents you mean the majority of parents then yes I would totally agree with you on that.

mikhail · 30-09-2010 11:46PM

Confab wrote: »

I'm an atheist too, but some atheists seem to know more about religion then the Catholic church. A bit like how the Catholic church knows more about Satan than anyone else really. Why do people go on about atheism anyway? It's a choice, beyond that it's not important. No-one really cares if you're an atheist. It's not a stance anymore, it's not shocking like it used to be.

As long as it's sufficient to keep my kid out of a local school, it's important.

rational · 30-09-2010 11:46PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

ColmDawson wrote: »

In any case, you are flailing with generalisations. This forum doesn't represent every atheist in Ireland (much less the world).

I never said it did.

"Oh we of little faith"

Dades · 30-09-2010 11:49PM

rational wrote: »

Atheism has a lot of characteristics that in my opinion seem to make it like a quasi religion. Atheists share common characteristics of belief; they share a zelous riteousness about the certainty of their beliefs and they even share similarities in they way they celebrate key times in terms of rites of passage etc. They gather in communities to reafirm their beliefs (like this one) too and like religion there is hell to pay if someone goes against their assumptions.

That sounds a lot like some vegetarians I know.

Are you heading over to the Veggie & Vegan forum next to impart your wisdom regarding their quasi religion?

Seriously, why do some people have such an issue with atheists being outspoken (in their own forum, I might add) that they need to descend into the same tired you have your own religion tactics?

You're not the first to discover this forum and drop in and think your being clever with this notion, and you're not the first to be wrong about it.

rational · 30-09-2010 11:53PM

I'm religious and DO believe that at least some religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Dades wrote: »

That sounds a lot like some vegetarians I know.

Are you heading over to the Veggie & Vegan forum next to impart your wisdom regarding their quasi religion?

Seriously, why do some people have such an issue with atheists being outspoken (in their own forum, I might add) that they need to descend into the same tired you have your own religion tactics?

You're not the first to discover this forum and drop in and think your being clever with this notion, and you're not the first to be wrong about it.

I thought atheism was supposed to be about inclucivity, openness, rationality, yet I am criticised as an outsider, dropping in, spoiling the party with my "notions" etc.

Ickle Magoo · 30-09-2010 11:57PM

I'm atheist/agnostic and DON'T believe that any religious dogmas constitute 'child abuse'

Okay, you have to be being deliberately obtuse now because it's been pointed out numerous times already that atheism isn't "about" anything other than lacking a belief in a god. A - without, theism - belief in a deity. Repeatedly ignoring other posters and continuing to spout the same drivel isn't spoiling the party, it's just being snotty & childishly annoying.

Some atheists also want greater secularity, some atheists like dawkins, some atheists favourite colour is blue and some prefer coke to pepsi but the only thing that establishes them as "atheists" is not believing or lacking belief in god/s....

Religion is "child abuse" ??

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