Decentralisation

Lenny Lovett · 20-10-2010 1:57pm #1

Did no thought,at all, go into the Decentralisation process? I ask because they started the building of the new offices for Irish Naturalistaiton and Immigration Service in Tipperary town last week. Now, given it's distance and accessability from the main entrance to the country (ie Dublin Airport, Ferry Port or Rosslare) surely it would have made more sense to have it closer to one of them? Maybe a more sensible move would have been to site this Department in Trim, County Meath and site the OPW in Tipperary instead of Trim as it's location and accessability would not be so critical for users? Is there many more examples of this idiocy?

Riskymove · 20-10-2010 2:21pm

decentralisation is full of such mad decisiosn, although tbf I think the Tipperary office is to process certain paperwork/applications only rather than be the place people need to go directly

my favourite was the agency with responsibility for disabled/elderly decentralised to an old georgian style building (which could not be adapted for disabled)'outside' of a rural town with no direct public transport....they also apparantly had no phone lines working for 18 months

Lenny Lovett · 20-10-2010 2:41pm

Riskymove wrote: »

decentralisation is full of such mad decisiosn, although tbf I think the Tipperary office is to process certain paperwork/applications only rather than be the place people need to go directly

Accepted but surely the office will be hosting visits/meetings etc from people working within the service also (knowing the Civil Service) transfer of vast quantities of forms and paperwork will be involved so hence somewhere nearer the Dublin Airport/Port would be more sensible? Perhaps Agriculture or Environment would be more sensible for somewhere like Tipperary?

Riskymove wrote: »

my favourite was the agency with responsibility for disabled/elderly decentralised to an old georgian style building (which could not be adapted for disabled)'outside' of a rural town with no direct public transport....they also apparantly had no phone lines working for 18 months

Seriously? You just couldn't make it up could you. FFS :rolleyes:

cyclopath2001 · 20-10-2010 4:52pm

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Did no thought,at all, go into the Decentralisation process?

Yes: a lot of thought went into how move the jobs for maximum political gain and how to generate more business for the builders and auctioneers. You'll find many coincidences between minister's counties and where departments ended up.

Now, it's become really difficult to move staff between departments because the staff don't want to move town again.

murphaph · 20-10-2010 6:31pm

Riskymove wrote: »

my favourite was the agency with responsibility for disabled/elderly decentralised to an old georgian style building (which could not be adapted for disabled)'outside' of a rural town with no direct public transport....they also apparantly had no phone lines working for 18 months

My mother recently relocated to an office within a large County Council office block. She is not a public servant but works alongside them and relies on them for certain things.

The lad whose JOB it was to put in the telephone line and computer basically didn't give a sh!t. Nor did his manager. It took 2 weeks for these gimps to get a phone line and computer set up on a desk. The mother told me the attitude is very much one of "sure, what's the rush?".

She, as I said is not a public servant and does not enjoy their job security. She works hard, always has done, so this sort of environment disgusts her.

imme · 20-10-2010 6:40pm

murphaph wrote: »

My mother recently relocated to an office within a large County Council office block. She is not a public servant but works alongside them and relies on them for certain things.

She, as I said is not a public servant and does not enjoy their job security. She works hard, always has done, so this sort of environment disgusts her.

was she decentralised?, or is this another 'have a go at public servants' post?

cyclopath2001 · 20-10-2010 6:43pm

imme wrote: »

was she decentralised?, or is this another 'have a go at public servants' post?

Maybe he's making a point about staff being so messed about by politicians, they don't care any more?

Lenny Lovett · 20-10-2010 6:43pm

imme wrote: »

was she decentralised?, or is this another 'have a go at public servants' post?

Sounds about par for the course...

murphaph · 20-10-2010 8:00pm

imme wrote: »

was she decentralised?, or is this another 'have a go at public servants' post?

No she wasn't decentralised. She is not a public servant.

How is it "having a go" to report what she has seen with her own eyes? Or did I hit a nerve?

cyclopath2001 · 20-10-2010 8:05pm

murphaph wrote: »

No she wasn't decentralised. She is not a public servant.

How is it "having a go" to report what she has seen with her own eyes? Or did I hit a nerve?

OK, then was the guy who took his time decentralised or was it a decentralised office? Or, maybe was there a decentralised public servant living in the same town?

Lenny Lovett · 20-10-2010 8:23pm

murphaph wrote: »

Or did I hit a nerve?

Sounds like it. The truth hurts!

cyclopath2001 · 20-10-2010 8:27pm

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Sounds like it. The truth hurts!

The truth seems to be decentralised in this anecdote.

JonathanAnon · 20-10-2010 8:30pm

It's ridiculous that they could just announce this with such fanfare, and then not follow through on it. Then McCreevy leaves for Europe and it's a distant memory.... Relocating public servants was never a realistic prospect... Relocations, redundancies and reforms are purely for private industry..

cyclopath2001 · 20-10-2010 8:34pm

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Relocating public servants was never a realistic prospect

If it had gone through fully, things would be in even worse shape. There was never a business reason to do it.

At least, if there's a sizeable body of people in one city, it is easier to move them from a department with less work to one with more. It's much harder to move people from Castlebar to Drogheda than from one side of Dublin (or Cork) to another.

Lenny Lovett · 20-10-2010 8:38pm

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's ridiculous that they could just announce this with such fanfare, and then not follow through on it. Then McCreevy leaves for Europe and it's a distant memory.... Relocating public servants was never a realistic prospect... Relocations, redundancies and reforms are purely for private industry..

If it was done properly and for the right reasons it could have been a massive success story. Moving around a few hundred staff plus their families to a rural town would have been a big boost for the economy of the towns involved. The prime buildings in Dublin could have been sold off and the funds used for infrastructure.The towns would also have benefitted from spin off improvements and commercial opportunities as well as a large increase in rates revenue for the local council. The kids of the Pubic Servants would have had a better quality of life in a rural environment. They (Govt) could have put appropriate departments in appropriate towns and the whole project would have been win win for everyone.

Alas, as usual, they made a complete bollox of it. :mad:

JonathanAnon · 20-10-2010 8:46pm

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If it had gone through fully, things would be in even worse shape. There was never a business reason to do it.

From what I remember, there was validity in some of the suggestions, and some were completely off the wall... I wonder how long did McCreevy spend planning decentralistion.. It really did seem more aspirational than anything..

From this article, they reportedly have moved almost one third of those planned by McCreevy. From September 4th 2010 Irish Times:
The decentralisation debacle

It was one of the big plans of Bertie Aherns government: to move 10,300 Dublin-based public servants outside the capital before 2007. Today, with just 3,159 jobs moved, the misguided project lies in ruins.

cyclopath2001 · 20-10-2010 9:13pm

JonathanAnon wrote: »

From this article, they reportedly have moved almost one third of those planned by McCreevy. From September 4th 2010 Irish Times:

A good number were not moved from Dublin, they moved to jobs places outside of Dublin to other jobs outside of Dublin, often without moving house.

Lenny Lovett wrote:

Moving around a few hundred staff plus their families to a rural town would have been a big boost for the economy of the towns involved.

But at a cost of less flexibility in re-assigning staff. You're assuming that the people did not already live in the towns in question or that they did not decide to commute from a nearby town where they already lived. Why do you think there are so many ghost estates in 'decentralisation' towns?

Lenny Lovett wrote:

The prime buildings in Dublin could have been sold off and the funds used for infrastructure.

Land was sold in Dublin, but the loans are now in NAMA.

Right now, it would be a brave Dublin politician who admits to a policy of taking thousands of jobs away out of Dublin.

dashboard_hula · 20-10-2010 9:27pm

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Did no thought,at all, go into the Decentralisation process? I ask because they started the building of the new offices for Irish Naturalistaiton and Immigration Service in Tipperary town last week. Now, given it's distance and accessability from the main entrance to the country (ie Dublin Airport, Ferry Port or Rosslare) surely it would have made more sense to have it closer to one of them? Maybe a more sensible move would have been to site this Department in Trim, County Meath and site the OPW in Tipperary instead of Trim as it's location and accessability would not be so critical for users? Is there many more examples of this idiocy?

Did you get that off the Nationalist? Couldn't find it anywhere else.

I don't think it's a bad idea at all, and not only 'cos I used to mitch off school on the new site. I mean, Tipperary is halfway between Shannon and Rosslare, 2 big entry points to Ireland, the motorway to Dublin/Cork is easily accessible, it's on a big main road, there's already 60 odd staff there, it's near other Department of Justice offices in North Tipp, and the town could do with it. I also doubt that there would be a need to visit the offices, it's probably for admin work mostly. Also Martin Mansergh probably worked hard to sell Tipperary Town, and the new shopping centre, proposed bypass etc might have made it a bit more attractive.

jd · 20-10-2010 9:33pm

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

The kids of the Pubic Servants would have had a better quality of life in a rural environment.

Really?

imme · 20-10-2010 10:07pm

murphaph wrote: »

No she wasn't decentralised. She is not a public servant.

How is it "having a go" to report what she has seen with her own eyes? Or did I hit a nerve?

it has nothing to do with the thread (which relates to decentralisation). Your mother isn't a public servant, so the story doesn't belong in the thread, or does it

. maybe I read it wrong:D.

cyclopath2001 · 21-10-2010 7:10am

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Did no thought,at all, go into the Decentralisation process? I ask because they started the building of the new offices for Irish Naturalistaiton and Immigration Service in Tipperary town last week. Now, given it's distance and accessability from the main entrance to the country (ie Dublin Airport, Ferry Port or Rosslare) surely it would have made more sense to have it closer to one of them?

Do you undersrand what the work of that office is? People interact with those services after they've arrived and found a job, maybe met someone and are planning to settle down In Ireland. It would make more much more sense to have that office in a majoir city where many such people live and work. As we're going to have less non-EU immigrants in the future, if that office were in a major city, the surplus staff could more then be easily be re-deployed to other departments.

Decentralisation

Comments