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What to do if your child wants to celebrate "the holidays"?

24

Comments

  • #32
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Saying I'm not going to celebrate Christmas because I'm not a Christian is like saying I'm not taking the bank holidays off because I don't work in a bank.

    Christmas is as much about Jesus Christ as Thursdays is about Thor.


  • #33
    Morbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    girlyhappyface wrote: »
    I am agnostic, and don't celebrate Christmas, Halloween or Easter.
    I don't have children yet, but am wondering how you atheists or agnostics respond if your child wants to have a Christmas tree, dress up at Halloween etc.
    I'm imagining that most kids don'y give a hoot about attending Church so it's just the stuff that other kids are doing that I'm imagining that they may want to do.
    I absolutely could not have Christmas decorations in my house, as I never have had, but I am wondering about how I would feel if I had my child ask me.

    So what do you do if your child wants to celebrate something you don't believe in?

    If my (hypothetical) child wanted to celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday, I wouldn't have any issue with that.


  • #34
    PandyAndy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭PandyAndy


    girlyhappyface wrote: »
    Sometimes we go to my partner's parent's house, sometimes we stay at home. When we're home alone, we don't have a traditional Christmas dinner. We do exchange presents (as he wants to- and I love presents!). I do get involved in his family's Kris Kindle and if there is one in work, will do the same.I know it's hypocritical, but presents are great, and it's nice to buy for people. It's all the other stuff I don't like!

    So you enjoy some aspects of christmas if they're the bits you like? Yet you wouldn't allow your future children to enjoy easter/halloween/christmas even if they like stuffing their faces with sweets/stuffing their faces with sweets except this time with a costume on/stuffing their faces with sweets again and getting presents and having the house decorated, because you don't enjoy it?

    You're very selfish.

    I don't celebrate any of the above festivals religiously at all, however I will certainly enjoy them. I will stuff my face with chocolate at easter, I'll dress up at halloween and have the craic at halloween partys and I'll enjoy coming home at christmas and when all the lights are up and the tree is decorated and to give/get presents. And if my mum dragged us all of to mass then I'd go along as that's what she would want to do as that would be her way of celebrating it.


  • #35
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    If there was ever a festive time made for kids Christmas is it.
    Like everything else in life you can pick and choose the bits you want to take from it. It seems a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water from where I'm standing.


  • #36
    Gambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Gambler


    I've never celebrated christmas (even as a child, I grew up in Ireland but never had christmas and never missed it to be honest, but I was raised with an alternative holiday in March so it wasn't like I had NO annual present giving festival) but this is a question I am considering myself as I have married someone who was raised as a christian and can't imagine not celebrating it with any children we may have..

    My position at the moment is that it's a time for family and that's how we are going to celebrate it. There's no need for it to be treated as a christian holiday and I don't plan on making it one for my children.. The big issue for me is will there be a santa.. My wife says yes but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of raising my children to question things while at the same time lying to them about some bloke bringing around prezzies..


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  • #37
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Gambler wrote: »
    The big issue for me is will there be a santa.. My wife says yes but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of raising my children to question things while at the same time lying to them about some bloke bringing around prezzies.
    My kid just turned four and while I've never pretended that there's a single Santa doing the gift-giving, I haven't told her that there isn't one either. So far, she's figured out that at least some Santas are fakes (beards not stuck on correctly seems to be the main issue), so I'm expecting her to notice that all of them are in the next year or two.

    But all of that said, it's a pretty benign thing anyway -- a chubby, friendly guy in a red suit who drinks coke and shows up once a year with a present?

    There are fictions out there that are less nice.


  • #38
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    girlyhappyface wrote: »
    I am agnostic, and don't celebrate Christmas, Halloween or Easter.
    I don't have children yet, but am wondering how you atheists or agnostics respond if your child wants to have a Christmas tree, dress up at Halloween etc.
    I'm imagining that most kids don'y give a hoot about attending Church so it's just the stuff that other kids are doing that I'm imagining that they may want to do.
    I absolutely could not have Christmas decorations in my house, as I never have had, but I am wondering about how I would feel if I had my child ask me.

    So what do you do if your child wants to celebrate something you don't believe in?

    Probably mentioned, but in my typical and time tested fashion of replying first and then going back to read the thread:

    What do decorated evergreen coniferous trees, the exchange of presents disguised by coloured paper, turkey, Irish coffees, obese red suit wearing fat men with magic reindeers who are propeitors of sweatshops in the north pole and trifle have to do with religion?

    Similarly what does dressing up as witches or Freddie Crugers or vampires and walking around an estate holding neighbours property ransom in exchange for sweets (and occasionally fruit :mad:) and trying to pull apples out of water using only your teeth and watching horror movies have to with religion?

    Once again, what does hiding chocolate eggs and then trying to find them and kicking grown men dressed as rabbits in the shins have to do with religion?

    The 25th of December, the first Sunday following the full moon on or after the 21st of March, and the 31st of October are secular holidays for probably most people nowadays. Dated from Christian holidays, which were dated from Pagan holidays, which were probably dated from simple agricultural reasons tied in to harvests.

    I'd say let your kids enjoy these secular holidays with all their friends. They are good fun for them and an excuse for a piss up for the parents.


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I have no problem with Christmas trees and decorations; it's fun. It's perfectly possible to celebrate it while excising all of the religious nonsense. They'd also celebrate Pagan holidays like Hallowe'en because they're just excuses to have fun!

    I wouldn't tell my children that Santa brings them presents every year. I'd actually like to see how long it'd take for them to figure out that it was me by being none-too-discreet about it. I have a cousin who's nearly 12 (starting secondary school in less than a year!) and she still believes in Santa and 'Holy God' because her parents are wishy-washy and refuse to 'spoil her innocence'. That's just pathetic.


  • #40
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    Gambler wrote: »
    The big issue for me is will there be a santa.. My wife says yes but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of raising my children to question things while at the same time lying to them about some bloke bringing around prezzies..

    I think you're overreacting. I'm atheist but I would definitely do the whole Santa Claus thing with my kids. Some of my fondest childhood memories and excitement came from the notion of Santa bringing presents.


  • #41
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    pH wrote: »
    Christmas is a catholic mass, celebrating the birth of Jesus, which was placed on Dec 25th to coincide with existing celebrations.

    It is if you are a Roman Catholic.


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  • #42
    Allyson Old Rattan
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Allyson Old Rattan


    girlyhappyface wrote: »
    Sometimes we go to my partner's parent's house, sometimes we stay at home. When we're home alone, we don't have a traditional Christmas dinner. We do exchange presents (as he wants to- and I love presents!). I do get involved in his family's Kris Kindle and if there is one in work, will do the same.I know it's hypocritical, but presents are great, and it's nice to buy for people. It's all the other stuff I don't like!

    The stuff that involves effort? Putting up a bit of tinsel?

    Oh and we celebrate christmas at home but I don't remember the last time we ever had a "traditional" dinner. I think we're doing beef this year. No christmas pudding either cos we hate it - but we'll make something else.

    Christmas is wonderful for children!
    Put up a tree and decorate it this year!
    You may even enjoy yourself :eek::eek:


  • #43
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Gambler wrote: »
    The big issue for me is will there be a santa.. My wife says yes but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of raising my children to question things while at the same time lying to them about some bloke bringing around prezzies..

    This is an interesting one for me as well. Psychologists have been having a field day with this one for decades as well. "The first big deceit" and all that. One interesting and unique take I remember reading about, think it was by some German guy (it's always some German guy innit?), went along the lines of: The deceit can actually be extremely beneficial as a tool in terms of raising children to question things in so far as from a very young age they learn that authority, any authority, can not be trusted explicitly and therefore everything should be questioned before being excepted (*or accepted even, Jaysus, you have to be sharp around here).

    Not sure what I think about his musings exactly but I thought it was an interesting take on it all the same.


  • #44
    Allyson Old Rattan
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Allyson Old Rattan


    strobe wrote: »
    This is an interesting one for me as well. Psychologists have been having a field day with this one for decades as well. "The first big deceit" and all that. One interesting and unique take I remember reading about, think it was by some German guy (it's always some German guy innit?), went along the lines of: The deceit can actually be extremely beneficial as a tool in terms of raising children to question things in so far as from a very young age they learn that authority, any authority, can not be trusted explicitly and therefore everything should be questioned before being excepted.

    Not sure what I think about his musings exactly but I thought it was an interesting take on it all the same.

    Before being excepted or accepted, as the case may be :D

    loving the edit ;)


  • #45
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I have a cousin who's nearly 12 (starting secondary school in less than a year!) and she still believes in Santa and 'Holy God'

    Unless of course, she's pretending....
    I know I was still pretending at 11/12 - due to the fear of the prezzies coming to a halt. :)


  • #46
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    I know I was still pretending at 11/12 - due to the fear of the prezzies coming to a halt
    That's the kind of thinking that lead to the EU/IMF bailout.


  • #47
    pH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    LordSutch wrote: »
    It is if you are a Roman Catholic.

    No, it is fullstop.

    Protestantism* is primarily a rejection of those Catholic "traditions and practices" without biblical justification. A mass celebrating Jesus' birth on December 25th is exactly one of those practices - why protestants celebrate Xmas remains a total mystery to me - maybe they all secretly want to be Catholics?

    * Not sure (and don't really care about) the Eastern Orthodox position on the matter.


  • #48
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Damn, I love Christmas! And I hate the term "the holidays". My holidays are in summer, preferably somewhere warm.

    I celebrate Christmas as it's supposed to be celebrated: food, cake, chocolates, turkey, ham, a dinner with 3 different styles of potatoes, presents, drink, decorations, a tree, lights, more presents, cards, visiting family. The fact that christians co-opted the celebration for their little fable means absolutely nothing to me. Ok, so the name stuck, but as mentioned already, half our week days are named after equally spurious deities, and I'm not pushed about changing those.

    And Santa? Santa's brilliant! I'm definitely bringing my daughter up with Santa. If you're going to have a fictional magic man, what better one than Santa? Gives you stuff, and only asks for a cup of milk and a biscuit in return. And get this - I get to eat the biscuit and milk!

    I lie to my child every day (the pringles aren't really all gone, teddy isn't actually asleep, dolly wasn't actually hurt when she had her head bashed off the fireplace). Might as well have a big, nice lie at the end of the year, that all the family can enjoy.

    Man, I'm all excited now. I can't wait for Christmas!

    PS: Easter is chocolate egg sunday, and Halloween is dress up and eat sweets and nuts night. Paddy's Day is the only one I don't celebrate. Even the day off you get for it is pointless, because you can't do anything without being stuck in a crowd, behind a slow-moving parade, or standing in vomit.


  • #49
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    phutyle wrote: »
    Damn, I love Christmas! And I hate the term "the holidays".
    I'm totally with you there, none of this Winterval rubbish in the hellfire household.


  • #50
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,303 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Epic amounts of fail in this thread.

    Jesus Christ (pardon the blasphamy), but it's just a time to share gifts, have a few drinks and relax. Religious belief, or lack there of should stop you, and if it does, well, you're a bit of an idiot


  • #51
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    Easter however... I can think of little use for Easter :)
    strobe wrote: »
    Once again, what does hiding chocolate eggs and then trying to find them and kicking grown men dressed as rabbits in the shins have to do with religion?
    phutyle wrote: »
    PS: Easter is chocolate egg sunday,

    Are all you people vegetarians? Easter is about the ROAST LAMB! It's the best meal of the year. And then later you get roast lamb sandwiches.:)


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  • #52
    Allyson Old Rattan
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Allyson Old Rattan


    iguana wrote: »
    Are all you people vegetarians? Easter is about the ROAST LAMB! It's the best meal of the year. And then later you get roast lamb sandwiches.:)

    Easter is about chocolate eggs :D:D


    I'll eat lamb I think but I wouldn't get excited about the poor little baa lambs...


  • #53
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Easter is about chocolate eggs :D:D

    Meh! I have chocolate every day. My husband only cooks his 4 mushroom soup, mint and rosemary rubbed lamb, with gravy from scratch, goose-fat roast potatoes, balsamic roast vegetables and minty peas once a year.


  • #54
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    iguana wrote: »
    Are all you people vegetarians? Easter is about the ROAST LAMB! It's the best meal of the year. And then later you get roast lamb sandwiches.:)
    I'm vegetarian, and so's my wife!

    (Never thought I'd find an appropriate use for that reference).

    Easter is about chocolate eggs. And drink.


  • #55
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Not to mention Good Friday party at home niiite!


  • #56
    Slugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭Slugs


    Quick question for parents here that celebrate christmas (the event, not the the birth of christ)...

    How many of you do the Santa Claus thing with your kids?

    If you do and you're a proclaimed athiest/agnostic, and have made an attempt to raise your child the same, do you not think it's incredibly sick and hypocritical to tell them there is no sky wizard, but there is a man in the north pole who'll give you presents if you're good all year... o.O

    Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees the sick and hypocritical side of this.

    As I always love to say,

    Santa is God for kids
    God is Santa for adults


  • #57
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Slugs wrote: »
    do you not think it's incredibly sick and hypocritical to tell them there is no sky wizard, but there is a man in the north pole who'll give you presents if you're good all year... o.O
    Santa is an invention for kids, like Barney or Iggle Piggle, or the Tooth Fairy. Kids love Christmas because of Santa - and parents of kids love Christmas because they see the joy of their kids.

    While on the most basic level Santa and God share a lot of similarities - Santa doesn't have much to say about worshiping him, hell, confession, original sin, homosexuality, (in)equality, contraception etc.

    So no, the only mistake is to deny kids all imagination because the imagined adult entities leave a lot to be desired.


  • #58
    Slugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭Slugs


    While it doesn't have some of the other characteristics such as sin, confession, etc. The premise is still the same. A figure of authority who can reward you for abiding to his moral code, or punish you for doing otherwise.

    I don't see what imagination is involved in the Santa Claus idea. The child doesn't create Santa. The parents do. They introduce the child to the idea of a man who lives in a magical world and once a year, this man comes to give them gifts dependant on the child's behaviour. Now I know the child's imagination is powerful, but I doubt they went that far to create this. The parents created this idea and essentially lie to their child just like they do with the tooth fairy, and not only do the parents lie to them, but the entire society lies to them. And not just once, on multiple occasions. How many times did you question your parents about Santa? How many times did they point blank lie to your face about it? And remember the person who tried to tell you otherwise, that santa didn't exist, remember how they were told to be quiet, and stop ruining the lie. Reminiscent of something...

    And remember when you found out the truth. I know I personally didn't get that upset about it, but I know plenty of people who did. For many people that was the same feeling they got when their view of a deity was contested.


  • #59
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    iguana wrote: »
    Easter is about the ROAST LAMB! It's the best meal of the year. And then later you get roast lamb sandwiches.:)
    At least in christianity, the paschal lamb only rises once, three days after death.

    Chez robindch's extended family, I've seen the bloody stuff show up at every meal for a week.


  • #60
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    iguana wrote: »
    Are all you people vegetarians? Easter is about the ROAST LAMB! It's the best meal of the year. And then later you get roast lamb sandwiches.:)

    Actually I make something of a point of eating Rabbit at easter :)


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  • #61
    pH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Slugs wrote: »
    If you do and you're a proclaimed athiest/agnostic, and have made an attempt to raise your child the same, do you not think it's incredibly sick and hypocritical to tell them there is no sky wizard, but there is a man in the north pole who'll give you presents if you're good all year... o.O

    No, make believe and pretend are a natural, integral and wonderful part of a child's life and fun. Much of modern Santa seem to be all carrot and no stick, I'd hazard a guess that most kids today haven't even heard of getting coal from Santa if they're bold.

    You're whole premise is bizarre, just because you as a parent don't believe in God, and on the basis of that you don't indoctrinate your child into a religion, you're now "incredibly sick and hypocritical" to play make believe games with them?


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