Social Welfare cut but Public Service Pay not ?

Leiva · 07-12-2010 06:21PM #1

I really do not want to start off the Private 'v' Public employee argument again , but this to me is one of the most unfair aspects of the 2011 Budget .

The Croke Park agreement done great to protect existing jobs in the Public Service (fair play) but it should not stop the tide going out for public service employee's when everyone else is going down .

If Wages/Welfare are been lowered it should be across the Public service aswell.

The Croke Park agreement is just another failed contract by the same people that have been agreeing contracts for the future of our country for decades to come ...This does not inspire confidence .:(

Poccington · 07-12-2010 06:27PM

mixednuts wrote: »

I really do not want to start off the Private 'v' Public employee argument again , but this to me is one of the most unfair aspects of the 2011 Budget .

The Croke Park agreement done great to protect existing jobs in the Public Service (fair play) but it should not stop the tide going out for public service employee's when everyone else is going down .

If Wages/Welfare are been lowered it should be across the Public service aswell.

The Croke Park agreement is just another failed contract by the same people that have been agreeing contracts for the future of our country for decades to come ...This does not inspire confidence .:(

It was lowered long before the Welfare took a 4% hit.

_michelle_ · 07-12-2010 06:32PM

Poccington wrote: »

It was lowered long before the Welfare took a 4% hit.

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished :rolleyes:?? Thats not a cut, because as far as I'm concerned & anyone else who every got it, it was a substancial cut!

wonderfulname · 07-12-2010 06:33PM

In all fairness the change in take home pay for a public servant over the past few years has been quite large, there's only so much someone's income can be cut, their expenditure and debts are generally two irreversibly high.

EI111 · 07-12-2010 06:35PM

well there is a pretty significant increase in tax as public sector pension contributions are now subject to prsi as well as salaries in general being taxed more due to decreased tax credits so it balances out.

kippy · 07-12-2010 06:36PM

Public servants pay WILL be cut again in the next three years - just not this particular budget.
Gross pay in the public sector is still about %10-15% too high.

While they have taken cuts already in the past 24 months the tax increases for them (as well as all workers) really is a cut in pay without the name.

Absurdum · 07-12-2010 06:41PM

_michelle_ wrote: »

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished :rolleyes:?? Thats not a cut, because as far as I'm concerned & anyone else who every got it, it was a substancial cut!

you answered your own question - it was a bonus

Max Power1 · 07-12-2010 06:41PM

IMO the dole wasnt cut enough.

As a low-medium earner my net pay is decreasing by almost 10% next year from this. €188 per week is still WAY too high for social welfare payments.

cursai · 07-12-2010 06:42PM

WTF....of course its cut. once again here and will be again.
4% is pathetic! its very uncool to say that but its true.
Riding the Middle Class. Didnt know i was middle class. Never had any class in my life. If a nation is judged on how we treat our weakest.....we must be in utopia

Poccington · 07-12-2010 06:44PM

_michelle_ wrote: »

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished :rolleyes:?? Thats not a cut, because as far as I'm concerned & anyone else who every got it, it was a substancial cut!

It was a bonus.

What about my wages being cut every single week of the year? You can ram your christmas bonus,.

wonderfulname · 07-12-2010 06:46PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

IMO the dole wasnt cut enough.

As a low-medium earner my net pay is decreasing by almost 10% next year from this. €188 per week is still WAY too high for social welfare payments.

I think its about right for someone who's actively seeking work, there should be a severe cut/ switch to food and utilities stamps once someone can be categorised as long term unemployed.

Max Power1 · 07-12-2010 06:49PM

wonderfulname wrote: »

I think its about right for someone who's actively seeking work, there should be a severe cut/ switch to food and utilities stamps once someone can be categorised as long term unemployed.

I agree totally.

I would have favoured no change to JSB and a 25% cut in JSA

nick 56 · 07-12-2010 06:50PM

we are in a bad way , why because of the incompetent government and its builder / developer mates. all aided even encoraged by corrupt bankers handing out cash like crazy.

Who do we blame --- council workers, teachers, etc.

Is it that we are frightend to tackle the real causes i think so. don't like the way things are find an easy target, Its the nurses obviouse aint it

PS did you have a SSIA account, 25% on top of what you saved after 5 years out of the public purse.

Anybody offering to give it back?

Lockstep · 07-12-2010 06:51PM

Poccington wrote: »

It was a bonus.

What about my wages being cut every single week of the year? You can ram your christmas bonus,.

Out of interest:
IIRC, enlisted troop pay is fairly low to begin with, is it being cut by much?

_michelle_ · 07-12-2010 06:51PM

Poccington wrote: »

It was a bonus.

What about my wages being cut every single week of the year? You can ram your christmas bonus,.

Well I wasnt looking for a slagging match but if your going to start go right ahead........ I can ram my christmas bonus where exactly?? Would you like me to have told my children that when Santa couldnt get a few essential for Christmas? Sorry for your wages being cut but nobody can say that it wasnt a cut as it was, simple as!

07-12-2010 06:52PM

Let's not forget that public servents so a job, those on the scratch don't.

Poccington · 07-12-2010 06:54PM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Out of interest:
IIRC, enlisted troop pay is fairly low to begin with, is it being cut by much?

While I can't remember the exact figure, I'm down over 100 quid.

_michelle_ wrote: »

Well I wasnt looking for a slagging match but if your going to start go right ahead........ I can ram my christmas bonus where exactly?? Would you like me to have told my children that when Santa couldnt get a few essential for Christmas? Sorry for your wages being cut but nobody can say that it wasnt a cut as it was, simple as!

Someone came on here saying how can they cut welfare and not cut PS pay. I pointed out PS cut has already taken a knock before welfare did.

It wasn't cut, you lost a bonus!

wonderfulname · 07-12-2010 06:54PM

_michelle_ wrote: »

Well I wasnt looking for a slagging match but if your going to start go right ahead........ I can ram my christmas bonus where exactly?? Would you like me to have told my children that when Santa couldnt get a few essential for Christmas? Sorry for your wages being cut but nobody can say that it wasnt a cut as it was, simple as!

I do have to agree, it was a bonus by name only, you can't say the private sector was any different with christmas bonuses in the boom years, it was assumed income, and household budgets were set accordingly.

kippy · 07-12-2010 06:57PM

RoverJames wrote: »

Let's not forget that public servents so a job, those on the scratch don't.

Okay, I dont like the term "on the scratch" (think it should be banned site wide to be honest) - many of these people would love to have a job and many are well able to work. The jobs just arent there.
And no amount of "Knocking on doors" as Bill Cullen says, will change that.
Government policy and a growing economy will.
I dont see anything in this budget that is a drastic improvement on government policy on job creation and I sure as hell didnt see anything in it to allow for economic growth.

_michelle_ · 07-12-2010 06:58PM

RoverJames wrote: »

Let's not forget that public servents so a job, those on the scratch don't.

I am horrified that your would refer to the Job Seekers Allowance/Benefit as "On the scratch" have you no respect for the hardship that many people endure while receiving such a payment? Typical Public servant talk:mad: (Not nice is it to be tar-ed with a sweeping statement!)

_michelle_ · 07-12-2010 07:00PM

Poccington wrote: »

While I can't remember the exact figure, I'm down over 100 quid.

Someone came on here saying how can they cut welfare and not cut PS pay. I pointed out PS cut has already taken a knock before welfare did.

It wasn't cut, you lost a bonus!

Yes it is a cut, if you get something one year & not the next then that is a cut wether you want to accept it or not is a different matter!

cson · 07-12-2010 07:06PM

_michelle_ wrote: »

Yes it is a cut, if you get something one year & not the next then that is a cut wether you want to accept it or not is a different matter!

A necessary cut though; I'm unsure of when the 'Bonus' came into operation but it and the level of JSA were based upon revenues from a growing economy which were substantial at the time. Both [Bonus; Economy] are gone as a consequence.

0O7 · 07-12-2010 07:09PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

IMO the dole wasnt cut enough.

As a low-medium earner my net pay is decreasing by almost 10% next year from this. €188 per week is still WAY too high for social welfare payments.

hit the nail on the head....

its a pure joke... get €360 for workin 40hours (average)
get 188 for doing nothing...
its like gettin 172 to work....

cson · 07-12-2010 07:13PM

0O7 wrote: »

hit the nail on the head....

its a pure joke... get €360 for workin 40hours (average)
get 188 for doing nothing...
its like gettin 172 to work....

I'm a big proponent for Social Welfare reform but I must say your post is highly disingenuous.

It is not a choice for some people whether to work or claim JSA - some simply can't obtain employment at the present time.

0O7 · 07-12-2010 07:13PM

the dole or "the scratch" as somebody called it is designed to survive, not live the life. get a job if you want better.

188euro is far too much.

what do ye excpect????? put a new public servant down 10% so after tax etc he will be coming out with 320, maybe he should be cut again so that he / she be better off not working????

and btw i know somebody on the dole that states he is "on the scratch" and has no intention of working as he figures its not worth the bother in this country when you can have everything for free if you dont work

Gavin "shels" · 07-12-2010 07:16PM

_michelle_ wrote: »

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished :rolleyes:??

I don't get a bonus in work, why should you get a bonus on the dole?

_michelle_ wrote: »

Would you like me to have told my children that when Santa couldnt get a few essential for Christmas? Sorry for your wages being cut but nobody can say that it wasnt a cut as it was, simple as!

No you tell them Santa didn't have time to make everything or something along them lines.

As for the OP, my mother is a civil servent and is by no means on a huge wage, her pay over the last 2 years has been cut by 16% and shes working more hours a week. Myself, I'm a college student (increase of €500 in my reg fee) and on minimum wage, which I've been cut down to in the summer, if my wage goes down to the new €7.65 I'll have taken 16% decrease in wages in 5 months. NOw go back and ask yourself why Social Welfare was only cut by 4%.:rolleyes:

kippy · 07-12-2010 07:17PM

0O7 wrote: »

the dole or "the scratch" as somebody called it is designed to survive, not live the life. get a job if you want better.

188euro is far too much.

what do ye excpect????? put a new public servant down 10% so after tax etc he will be coming out with 320, maybe he should be cut again so that he / she be better off not working????

and btw i know somebody on the dole that states he is "on the scratch" and has no intention of working as he figures its not worth the bother in this country when you can have everything for free if you dont work

I've stated once or twice on this forum that "I am an idiot/fool" (fairly recently)
I wouldnt like people to make the justification that public servants are idiots/fool just because I stated I was an idiot/fool? Or that because I said it, public servants mustnt mind that being said about them. Because that is what you are implying.

I am not making arguments about the figures, just the terms.

07-12-2010 07:43PM

_michelle_ wrote: »

I am horrified that your would refer to the Job Seekers Allowance/Benefit as "On the scratch" have you no respect for the hardship that many people endure while receiving such a payment? Typical Public servant talk:mad: (Not nice is it to be tar-ed with a sweeping statement!)

I'm not a public servent

I was out of work myself a few years back

One third of jobseekers or whatever the correct term is were on the dole during the boom and always will be. It's there benefit that should be cut.

caseyann · 07-12-2010 07:57PM

Absurdum wrote: »

you answered your own question - it was a bonus

It was a bonus for kids not for parents,when things are at their most difficult :rolleyes:
Prices of presents etc.. should be cut or they should ban advertisement of anything out of reach for lower paid parents and those on social welfare.:) Instead of rubbing it in their faces.

Rodin · 07-12-2010 08:01PM

0O7 wrote: »

hit the nail on the head....

its a pure joke... get €360 for workin 40hours (average)
get 188 for doing nothing...
its like gettin 172 to work....

40 * 7.65 = 306 euro. Before tax.

caseyann · 07-12-2010 08:04PM

Gavin shels wrote: »

I don't get a bonus in work, why should you get a bonus on the dole?

No you tell them Santa didn't have time to make everything or something along them lines.

Because kids are thick?
Your boss is a stinge lol Who do you work for i worked for cadbury chocolate before and they wouldnt even give you a lousy creme egg for a Christmas bonus not even a party lol
The cuts to welfare are not bad and 8 euro a week extra isnt going to but any presents in this country anyway unless its a yo yo.
The bonus was the presents if you can buy presents and underwear for two or three kids on 300 euro or less.The main pay still goes on food bills and heating.

Social Welfare cut but Public Service Pay not ?

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