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BMW 320d or Audi A4 2.0 TDI (year 2005)?

  • 17-01-2011 02:13PM
    #1
    paddyjoesoap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭


    Hi All,

    I was wondering if anyone had any opinion regarding a 2005 BMW 320d or a 2005 Audi A4 2.0 TDI SE.

    What are the typical faults you have ecountered on a 2005 Audi or BMW model?

    (Note, I haven't seen the BMW yet as it is only coming in to the garage during the week. The Audi has a 100k miles done and will come with a 6 month warrenty from the Audi/VW dealer. I presume the BMW will have a similar warrenty but from a general garage dealer).

    I am currently looking at either car and both are approximately the same price of 10500 euro from two separate garages in my location. (Buy straight no trade in)

    From what I can tell, both cars got a new face lift in 2005. The BMW is a rear wheel drive. Has anyone had any issues?

    Is there any issues with the drive shaft that drives the rear wheels? etc. I heard people had problems with the BMW in the snow. Perhaps this was more to do with some peoples handling of a rear wheel drive. (I used to drive a Mazda B2500 4x4.) or perhaps this is a major safety issue. I presume the BMW has traction control like the Audi that would help it.

    I heard the Audi has an aluminium head and is known to cause problems. Any opinion here? I also understand the Audi has a dual-mass fly wheel that is expensive if it needs replacing. I heard they can give trouble. Perhaps the BMW is no different.

    Any idea of the cost of a regular service for both cars in terms of oil, filters, break pads etc? I typically service the car myself regarding oil and oil filter change, air filter and break pad replacement.

    What price could I expect to be charged for more serious servicing such as a timing belt and water pump? Which car is typically more expensive to do.

    Also, in the audi, I can turn off the service light to say I have serviced the car from the dash buttons (spanner and reset buttons) myself. Can the same be said for the BMW or must it be taken to a BMW dealer and thus, I can't do my own regular servicing.

    Are parts for an Audi more accessible and of a reasonable cost? I presume parts off a passat and or other VW's may also fit. I presume BMW parts are limited to BMW based cars and thus, there tends not to be spurious parts (auto shops) or parts that can be taken from other cars in general (scrapped car parts).

    Are tyres for the BMW more prone to wear than the audi. Someone mentioned that its hard to keep tyres on the BMW and they could cost 200 euro each. I know I can get mid range tyres for an audi for around 100 each and would probably get 20k or 30k motorway miles from them at least.

    The kind of mileage I expect to do yearly is 20k.

    I presume both cars have similar mpg of approx 50 mpg.

    regards, Patrick.


Comments

  • #2
    paddyjoesoap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭paddyjoesoap


    Any comments on 2005 models?


  • #3
    PaulKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭PaulKK


    Ok, since you went back and formatted it I'll take a stab.

    I am more familiar with an E46 320d than an E90 or B7 Audi though.
    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    Hi All,
    Is there any issues with the drive shaft that drives the rear wheels? etc. I heard people had problems with the BMW in the snow. Perhaps this was more to do with some peoples handling of a rear wheel drive.
    I have a 320d and had no major issues in the snow.
    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    I also understand the Audi has a dual-mass fly wheel that is expensive if it needs replacing. I heard they can give trouble. Perhaps the BMW is no different.

    Both have DMFs, I would say both have a chance of needing replacing around 130k miles, but this is just a consumable on modern diesels, not BMW or Audi specific. Probably looking at about a grand for new clutch and DMF for either.
    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    Any idea of the cost of a regular service for both cars in terms of oil, filters, break pads etc? I typically service the car myself regarding oil and oil filter change, air filter and break pad replacement.
    I service mine myself too, I tend to buy the filters in bulk online (Mahle from eurocarparts or opieoils) and get my oil in halfords(I have 15% discount).

    Typical oil service (oil filter, oil, carbon filter) costs me about 90e.
    Air filter change interval is long enough so its not too bad, it is about 25e in the factors though.
    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    What price could I expect to be charged for more serious servicing such as a timing belt and water pump? Which car is typically more expensive to do.
    320d has a timing chain. A4 is expensive to do a belt on, its labour intensive, expect 800e in an Audi garage, maybe about 500 in an independant garage.

    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    Also, in the audi, I can turn off the service light to say I have serviced the car from the dash buttons (spanner and reset buttons) myself. Can the same be said for the BMW or must it be taken to a BMW dealer and thus, I can't do my own regular servicing.
    You can reset the service indicator on BMWs by holing down the trip reset button when turning the key and waiting till the display flashes. Not a problem.
    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    Are parts for an Audi more accessible and of a reasonable cost? I presume parts off a passat and or other VW's may also fit. I presume BMW parts are limited to BMW based cars and thus, there tends not to be spurious parts (auto shops) or parts that can be taken from other cars in general (scrapped car parts).

    Your actually wrong there. There are loads of OEM parts for BMW and they are actually cheaper than Audi parts.
    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    Are tyres for the BMW more prone to wear than the audi. Someone mentioned that its hard to keep tyres on the BMW and they could cost 200 euro each. I know I can get mid range tyres for an audi for around 100 each and would probably get 20k or 30k motorway miles from them at least.

    Tyres are no more expensive than anything else. If you have runflats then they will be expensive, but many owners change over to conventional tyres and have no issues. I myself use Falken FK452 in an 18" and total cost is about 150 for the rears in a 255/35/18 and about 120 for the fronts in a 225/40/18.

    I have the rears on for the last 12K miles and theres about 4.5mm left still and I give it welly now and then. The front ones don't seem to wear too fast at all.

    You will find that about 12K miles on the front of an A4 you will be needing new tyres.

    Of course if you have 16" wheels or similar the tyres will be substantially cheaper.


  • #4
    paddyjoesoap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭paddyjoesoap


    Thanks a million Paul for your insight.

    Interesting to know that the BMW has a timing chain.

    I presume the E90 is the same as the E46 in this regard.

    Also, I see BMW has an issue with the SWIRL Flaps.

    Perhaps, if I buy the BMW, I should have them removed. www.bmwland.co.uk/swirl_flaps_bmw/swirl_flaps.pdf

    I welcome all other comments.

    Patrick.


  • #5
    PaulKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭PaulKK


    paddyjoesoap wrote: »
    Also, I see BMW has an issue with the SWIRL Flaps.

    E90 has no swirl flap issues.
    Generally a pre mid 04 E46 problem. Mine is Nov 04 and I deflapped for peace of mind but I believe the E90 has a completely re-designed manifold.


  • #6
    paddyjoesoap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭paddyjoesoap


    Thanks Paul.


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  • #7
    SpannerMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭SpannerMonkey


    PaulKK wrote: »
    E90 has no swirl flap issues.
    Generally a pre mid 04 E46 problem. Mine is Nov 04 and I deflapped for peace of mind but I believe the E90 has a completely re-designed manifold.

    not true E90 still has flaps and they still can and do fail but it is much much rarer than the E46 model. they didnt redesign the flaps properly until mid to late 2005 so most 2005 E90 still have the old design being built in early 2205 , all bmw diesels still use swirl flaps to this day but after late 2005 they are much stronger


  • #8
    R.O.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,731 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    The 2.0Tdi engine in the Audi has issues with the fuel pump and injectors.

    I remember an 05 coming back with around 200,000km on, but just looking through the service history it was in the garage twice for at least a couple of weeks each time. No real info as to what was done or the cost, but based on the car hire charges it must have been fairly substantial.


  • #9
    cadaliac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,905 ✭✭✭cadaliac


    R.O.R wrote: »
    The 2.0Tdi engine in the Audi has issues with the fuel pump and injectors.

    I remember an 05 coming back with around 200,000km on, but just looking through the service history it was in the garage twice for at least a couple of weeks each time. No real info as to what was done or the cost, but based on the car hire charges it must have been fairly substantial.
    A mate has an 07 A6 2.0 TDI with well over 100k miles (118k or so) on the clock.
    His repairs so far have cost close to €10k over the past 3 years.
    Some of the repairs were:
    Car stopped on the side of the road one day and the Audi dealer had to "strip down the engine" to find the fault. I think he said it was a DPF issue. That was about €3k. :eek:
    Next stopage was on the motorway, dreaded oil pump failure. Another few grand.
    Because of that, the turbo was starved of oil, so yip, new turbo.
    There have been other issues too but none as serious as those listed.
    Now flywheel is ratteling, mate couldn't realy give a toss though, its a company car.


  • #10
    PaulKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭PaulKK


    davy_b wrote: »
    not true E90 still has flaps and they still can and do fail but it is much much rarer than the E46 model. they didnt redesign the flaps properly until mid to late 2005 so most 2005 E90 still have the old design being built in early 2205 , all bmw diesels still use swirl flaps to this day but after late 2005 they are much stronger

    I didn't say the E90 doesn't have flaps?

    I said it didn't have swirl flap issues.


    I have certainly not heard of any failure on any E90s anyway, and I also read that even if they did fail, they would not enter the engine like before.


  • #11
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    The E90 does suffer from swirl flap and turbo failure.

    It's just nowhere near as prone as the E46 to suffering from either problem.

    I would still get the swirl flaps removed - they don't affect the NCT and when the blanking plates are fitted you'll have the peace of mind that your engine won't fail because it injested swirl flaps.

    Turbo failure is usually as a result of the car getting abused - I wouldn't get hung up about it.

    What the E90 is known for is its ability to need a new ABS and ESP module after only a few years, and that this component is quite expensive to replace, though I think there is a crowd that sell refurbed units, which needless to say are far cheaper.

    The A4 is very likely (with the 2.0 TDI engine anyway) to suffer oil pump failure, injector failure and turbo failure.

    That alone makes the 3 series a better bet, and that's before we move onto the fact that a 320d is quicker, more economical and should be a far nicer car to drive being RWD.


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  • #12
    paddyjoesoap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭paddyjoesoap


    Thanks lads for all the info.

    The Audi gets a bad wrap so.

    You have given me food for thought.

    Again, if anyone thinks of any other insights or specific bmw things to look for on a visual inspection that would be welcome.


  • #13
    SpannerMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭SpannerMonkey


    they can and do fail but as said aint that common my missus has a E90 320d and they are fantasic, quicker and better to drive than an A4 and would definately be my choice of the 2


  • #14
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    captainspeed wrote: »
    What the E90 is known for is its ability to need a new ABS and ESP module after only a few years, and that this component is quite expensive to replace, though I think there is a crowd that sell refurbed units, which needless to say are far cheaper.

    +1

    my old 05 E90 got this replaced under a goodwill gesture from BMW as it had FBMWSH.
    its a 2k cost plus about 300e labour charge.


  • #15
    paddyjoesoap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭paddyjoesoap


    kceire wrote: »
    +1

    my old 05 E90 got this replaced under a goodwill gesture from BMW as it had FBMWSH.
    its a 2k cost plus about 300e labour charge.

    Ouch!

    The car I will be looking at has a 115000 on the clock. I hope the ABS and EPS module holds out.

    Can second hand ones be purchased (from scrap yard) or must they be bought new and fitted by BMW so that they are mapped correctly to the ECU. Perhaps they don't have to be programed.


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