Mary Hanafin on Frontline tonight .. Quote: "There will always be jobs for teachers"

Rodar08 · 17-01-2011 11:00PM #1

Please .... please somebody wake her up! :eek: I have no words. Fas scheme teachers, freeze on teaching jobs, immigration our only option .... I am appalled. Utterly.

goat2 · 17-01-2011 11:03PM

i too wish she would wake up, i have a child without a full time position, after keeping her in college with the past four yrs, she is a qualified teacher now, what good is it to her, no job, future looking bleak

Rodar08 · 17-01-2011 11:12PM

I'm the very same, it's awful. I have a mortgage too which seemed like a good idea at the time. The S&S system where permanent teachers cover classes that before subs were called in for is another joke. Paying people who already have jobs extra to sub during their free classes?! I used to get almost 4 days a week subbing, sometimes 5 only a couple of years ago. Now I'm lucky to get 2 days a month. It's a disgrace. The whole thing is unbelievable. I feel for you and your child.

delta_bravo · 18-01-2011 08:38AM

Well in her mind there is. She has a guaranteed post waiting for her if she doesn't win her seat. As does Enda Kenny and a few other teachers.

Rodar08 · 18-01-2011 11:10AM

Oh my god are you serious? Who is filling those positions now? Did they take sabaticals or something? If so then suppose there's nothing we can say but if not they should be made go to the back of the line with the rest of us. Outrage all of this. I feel my hands are being cuffed behind my back. I feel betrayed or something. Gagged, blindfolded, hands tied and being shoved on a plane outta the country. They're a crowd of ********

loveroflight · 18-01-2011 11:32AM

anyone feel like they are the donkey in animal farm?

Rodar08 · 18-01-2011 04:45PM

Well anything that anyone has done so far has made no difference and brought no change. They carry on making things harder for us and I don't see how I can do anything about it other than voting in the election ... if that's what you mean?

evolving_doors · 18-01-2011 06:55PM

Hmm maybe she meant politicians holding teachers positions,,, always seems to be a position there for them!!

gaeilgebeo · 18-01-2011 08:52PM

Rodar08 wrote: »

I'm the very same, it's awful. I have a mortgage too which seemed like a good idea at the time. The S&S system where permanent teachers cover classes that before subs were called in for is another joke. Paying people who already have jobs extra to sub during their free classes?! I used to get almost 4 days a week subbing, sometimes 5 only a couple of years ago. Now I'm lucky to get 2 days a month. It's a disgrace. The whole thing is unbelievable. I feel for you and your child.

It is not the fault of permanent teachers that you are not getting SnS.
It is simply another cut by the Dept.
It makes a lot more financial sense to do it this way.
It is more expensive to pay a sub by the hour than to pay a lump sum to a permanent teacher(which is no great amount!
I would prefer see this happen than see anymore cuts to the already overstretched budgets in schools.

Rodar08 · 18-01-2011 09:23PM

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

It is not the fault of permanent teachers that you are not getting SnS.
It is simply another cut by the Dept.
It makes a lot more financial sense to do it this way.
It is more expensive to pay a sub by the hour than to pay a lump sum to a permanent teacher(which is no great amount!
I would prefer see this happen than see anymore cuts to the already overstretched budgets in schools.

I'm not saying it's the teachers fault. I do however think there is something wrong when so many are unemployed and those with salaries and perm. positions feel they need to sign up for extra work that could be given to those unemployed. Also, I would obviously rather a better situation than more cuts to the already overstretched budgets in schools, but, why should it be on the back of me and other unemployed like me rather than those who are already sorted in terms of income, employment and security?? ... and as a matter of interest ... do you know what the 'no great amount' is??

gaeilgebeo · 18-01-2011 09:57PM

Rodar08 wrote: »

I'm not saying it's the teachers fault. I do however think there is something wrong when so many are unemployed and those with salaries and perm. positions feel they need to sign up for extra work that could be given to those unemployed. Also, I would obviously rather a better situation than more cuts to the already overstretched budgets in schools, but, why should it be on the back of me and other unemployed like me rather than those who are already sorted in terms of income, employment and security?? ... and as a matter of interest ... do you know what the 'no great amount' is??

So the dept. is better off paying a sub €50.34 per hour than paying staff 2 lump sums which costs a fraction of what a sub would cost?
I don't want to come across as unsympathetic, but we have to be realistic about things.
We've faced cut after cut in schools and are really seeing the effects of it this year.
If we can save money on something as basic as supervision, then so be it.
The majority of teachers in my school who do SnS are in no way "sorted" or "secure".
A lot of teachers live contract to contract ,on very few hours, for years.

sitstill · 18-01-2011 10:12PM

I can assure you that after all the deductions, the lump sums we get for S&S are so reduced as to make the scheme not worth opting into. However I think that it's for the better of my school that as many teachers are in it. Covering classes is much easier when there is a list of available teachers already in the building with nothing else to do instead of ringing around subs who may or may not be free.

That said, Hanafin's statement is outrageous.

MonkeyDoo · 18-01-2011 10:38PM

I had to laugh when she said "there would always be jobs for teachers" given the demographics.

Is this the great FF plan, everybody in the country teach? The next bubble is probably going to be education!

There are over 30 TD's that are teachers and lecturers in the Dail.

Even the next Taoiseach and finance minister will be teachers...

Lets all be teachers take up Politics as a hobby on our summer hols and get all our former students to vote for us by giving them A's.

Ohh...and if I lose my TD job I can walk right back into my old teaching job as it's protected under Irish law...

Let me apply for the HDip right away....safe as houses...

#15 · 18-01-2011 11:02PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

I had to laugh when she said "there would always be jobs for teachers" given the demographics.

Is this the great FF plan, everybody in the country teach?

Clearly not, going by the amount of unemployed teachers out there.

How can you fall for such rubbish?

Rodar08 · 18-01-2011 11:06PM

gaeligeBeo I can see your point, yes it would be cheaper but look at my situation for an example of why this is not working for a lot of people. My example is how it is for many throughout the country length and breadth.

5th year in the same school working as a sub. Once had 4 sometimes 5 days a week. S&S system was put in to force and now I am lucky if I get 2 or 3 days a month. The teachers doing it are not on a few hours a week with temporary contracts for years. They are permanent.

I was told that in order to be included in the S&S scheme you had to be permanent or on a contract, therefore I am not eligible as I am a mere sub now only able to be employed when a sick cert is handed in by the teacher absent.

eastbono · 18-01-2011 11:10PM

My daughter is teaching in the Uk as are a lot of her peers. There are teaching jobs available in the UK and some councils will even pay your re-location costs... this is just one option for unemployed teacher graduates. And its not that far from home as opposed to Oz, NS, US and Canada where a lot of our graduates are going.

Money isnt as good in Uk as here for teaching but cost of living is less and teachers can also avail of school lunches which are very very cheap.

MonkeyDoo · 18-01-2011 11:12PM

#15 wrote: »

Clearly not, going by the amount of unemployed teachers out there.

How can you fall for such rubbish?

You missed..the sarcasm "#15"

It's just it's hard for teachers to blame the government when there are so many teachers in government!

Rodar08 · 18-01-2011 11:16PM

Correction Monkeydoo ... I think you mean 'so many DUMBASS teachers in government'

delta_bravo · 18-01-2011 11:17PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

There are over 30 TD's that are teachers and lecturers in the Dail.

Is it that high?

Theres Enda Kenny, Mary Hanafin, Noel Dempsey, Batt O'Keeffe and Michael Martin I think. Who are the others?

MonkeyDoo · 18-01-2011 11:28PM

delta_bravo wrote: »

Is it that high?

Theres Enda Kenny, Mary Hanafin, Noel Dempsey, Batt O'Keeffe and Michael Martin I think. Who are the others?

I'm afraid it goes that high delta_bravo, if you include college lecturers too

here is spreadsheet of TD's professions before their cushy number in the dail...it's not my work I just found it online

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArtXDGF50fODdFpKMXk1VHE0VFVlcmhYUFlfQmpsX2c&hl=en&authkey=CNq4xtwH#gid=0

MonkeyDoo · 18-01-2011 11:31PM

Rodar08 wrote: »

Correction Monkeydoo ... I think you mean 'so many DUMBASS teachers in government'

Ha ha!

Those who can do...
Those who can't teach....

Those who can't teach...get into politics (of course keeping their full time teaching post until they get turfed out by the electorate)

delta_bravo · 18-01-2011 11:58PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

I'm afraid it goes that high delta_bravo, if you include college lecturers too

here is spreadsheet of TD's professions before their cushy number in the dail...it's not my work I just found it online

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArtXDGF50fODdFpKMXk1VHE0VFVlcmhYUFlfQmpsX2c&hl=en&authkey=CNq4xtwH#gid=0

I doubt all those listed as teachers would have served long enough time to get the right to take a permanent sabbatical. I doubt Brian Hayes or Mary Harney taught much, probably very briefly. It would be interested to research how many are availing of the scheme. It seems to be a common belief that FF is the publican party but there seems to be far more teachers. Even stranger considering their current education policies.

The SF occupations were rather funny:

Ferris: "Hardware Importer"
O Caolan: "Bank Official"

M three · 19-01-2011 12:04AM

Rodar08 wrote: »

I'm the very same, it's awful. I have a mortgage too which seemed like a good idea at the time. The S&S system where permanent teachers cover classes that before subs were called in for is another joke. Paying people who already have jobs extra to sub during their free classes?! I used to get almost 4 days a week subbing, sometimes 5 only a couple of years ago. Now I'm lucky to get 2 days a month. It's a disgrace. The whole thing is unbelievable. I feel for you and your child.

Well believe it and quit moaning. Maybe both you and mary hanafin need to cop on.

Rodar08 · 19-01-2011 11:26AM

Eehh .. M Three are you seriously telling me to cop on??

:D:D:D:D you're the craic!! lol

Care to elaborate? What would you like me to cop on to? The fact that the government has made it impossible for teachers to get a job?? Mmm!! Maybe it's YOU M Three that needs to COP ON

If you've nothing worthwhile to ad then don't bother adding anything at all. Ciao :cool:

#15 · 19-01-2011 07:12PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

It's just it's hard for teachers to blame the government when there are so many teachers in government!

That doesn't make sense.

EoghanRua · 19-01-2011 07:39PM

Rodar08 wrote: »

Please .... please somebody wake her up! :eek: I have no words. Fas scheme teachers, freeze on teaching jobs, immigration our only option .... I am appalled. Utterly.

What's the deal? Mary Hanafin is right, there will always be jobs for teachers (unless they stop education altogether which seems unlikely).

What she did not say (assuming your quote is accurate) is that anyone qualifying as a teacher will never have to emigrate (not 'immigrate' by the way) or that irrespective of the economic situation goverment will keep employing extra teachers, or that every teacher is going to enjoy some utopian scenario in their careers.

implausible · 19-01-2011 09:06PM

Rodar08 wrote: »

5th year in the same school working as a sub. Once had 4 sometimes 5 days a week. S&S system was put in to force and now I am lucky if I get 2 or 3 days a month. The teachers doing it are not on a few hours a week with temporary contracts for years. They are permanent.

5 years subbing in the one school and they've never given you some of your own hours?:eek: In fairness, relying on that kind of work in one school was never going to be a runner, regardless of the s/s scheme. S/S seems a minor thing to get annoyed about, as there are far more serious cuts and employment problems out there.

In fairness, Mary Hanafin is technically right and it plays to the public's perception - there will always be children to teach; ergo there will always be teachers required. She has conveniently left out the existing backlog of unemployed teachers:rolleyes:

goat2 · 19-01-2011 11:45PM

maybe she meant there would always be jobs for those who are teachers who are now in government, did they give up their positions as teachers, if not there are subs keeping their positions open until they lose their seats and return to the classrooms

MonkeyDoo · 20-01-2011 02:43AM

Well said goat2, the question Hanifin dodged was about the jobs crisis not teachers.

She then said there would always be jobs for teachers...she almost encouraged everyone at home to 'go get a job in teaching' But who is going to pay teachers salaries if the number of private sector tax payers are shinking due to unemployment and emmigration.

The statement 'there will always be jobs for teachers' is not going to fix the countrys jobs crisis. It just demonstates the lack of talent in today's politics.

dory · 20-01-2011 07:09AM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

I'm afraid it goes that high delta_bravo, if you include college lecturers too

here is spreadsheet of TD's professions before their cushy number in the dail...it's not my work I just found it online

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArtXDGF50fODdFpKMXk1VHE0VFVlcmhYUFlfQmpsX2c&hl=en&authkey=CNq4xtwH#gid=0

Mary Coughlan: Charity work (briefly) and amateur evolutionary physicist???

Is that a joke?

EoghanRua · 20-01-2011 05:18PM

dory wrote: »

Mary Coughlan: Charity work (briefly) and amateur evolutionary physicist???

Is that a joke?

I don't think the source is credible. Produced by malcontents for malcontents I would say.

goat2 · 20-01-2011 11:28PM

now mary hanafin has two jobs, no wonder she thinks there are jobs for all, when jobs are being handed to her, she is not living in our world

MonkeyDoo · 20-01-2011 11:41PM

dory wrote: »

Mary Coughlan: Charity work (briefly) and amateur evolutionary physicist???

Is that a joke?

I think it's a reference to her lecture on "Einstein's theory of Evolution" to potiential job creators with the IDA.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/coughlans-no-einstein-after-gaffe-at-smart-economy-launch-1890227.html

Nadaur · 21-01-2011 12:53AM

EoghanRua wrote: »

What's the deal? Mary Hanafin is right, there will always be jobs for teachers (unless they stop education altogether which seems unlikely).

What she did not say (assuming your quote is accurate) is that anyone qualifying as a teacher will never have to emigrate (not 'immigrate' by the way) or that irrespective of the economic situation goverment will keep employing extra teachers, or that every teacher is going to enjoy some utopian scenario in their careers.

well said..............'immigratate':pac:........................

gaeilgegrinds1 · 21-01-2011 12:03PM

Had PTM last week, 5 of my tutor group are finishing the year and 3 going back to their own countries and 2 going to Oz and USA. Parents were sad to say but wanted to tell me. So we're figuring those 6 classes in that year now become 5 for sure and 4 perhaps. So don't tell me we won't lose jobs, lots of worried faces by us.

MonkeyDoo · 22-01-2011 06:24PM

If Mary Hanifin gets her way and becomes leader of FF we would have a teacher as taoiseach....and a teacher as leader of the opposition....what makes teachers such 'successful' politicians :eek:

Nadaur · 22-01-2011 08:40PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

If Mary Hanifin gets her way and becomes leader of FF we would have a teacher as taoiseach....and a teacher as leader of the opposition....what makes teachers such 'successful' politicians :eek:

used to working with people...used to fighting for their lives with random strangers.....used of dealing with lunatics......fairly intelligent...fairly educated...................and we have great holidays!!!!!

MonkeyDoo · 23-01-2011 08:03AM

Nadaur wrote: »

used to working with people...used to fighting for their lives with random strangers.....used of dealing with lunatics......fairly intelligent...fairly educated...................and we have great holidays!!!!!

Ha ha! I suppose the classroom really does resemble what goes on in Dail chambers

E.T. · 23-01-2011 03:12PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

Ha ha! I suppose the classroom really does resemble what goes on in Dail chambers

Ah now, that's a terrible thing to say about children!:D

StrawberryJazz · 23-01-2011 07:03PM

She is so frustratingly moronic.

Patronising, superficial and thinks we're all stupid. The woman hasn't an intelligent brain cell behind that blond money pit mop on her head.

MonkeyDoo · 23-01-2011 09:30PM

StrawberryJazz wrote: »

She is so frustratingly moronic.

Patronising, superficial and thinks we're all stupid. The woman hasn't an intelligent brain cell behind that blond money pit mop on her head.

Wouldn't surprise me if she won the FF leadership battle then lost her seat 2 weeks later in the election.

She probably gets alot of votes because of people going...

'Ohh look on TV, she taught me in school, will vote for her because she knows me'

Hopefully the novelty of seeing your teacher on TV has worn off with the electorate...

UnLuckyAgain · 23-01-2011 10:03PM

Even though I don't have any confidence in FF and am not voting for them in the up coming election, I think that Mary Hanafin is one of the best TDs, specifically in the role of Minister for Education and Skills.

Obviously her career as a teacher grants her much more insight and knowledge into real life educational issues and I think think it was a disastrous move on the Taoiseach's part by placing Calamity Coughlan in the role of Minister for Education.

That said, even though I think Mary Hanafin is the best of a bad bunch in the running for party leadership, I don't want FF to remain in government.

StrawberryJazz · 23-01-2011 10:27PM

UnLuckyAgain wrote: »

Even though I don't have any confidence in FF and am not voting for them in the up coming election, I think that Mary Hanafin is one of the best TDs, specifically in the role of Minister for Education and Skills.

Not that this country has a history for extreme innovation but what exactly has Hanafin done in Education that is so positive?

Quite frankly, I think she just got away with good timing, benefiting from all of the good work as a result of the white paper, done just before her time.
I cant think of a single positive change she has put into effect.

Why is doing the bare minimum seen as brilliant in relation to our government?

UnLuckyAgain · 23-01-2011 10:39PM

StrawberryJazz wrote: »

Not that this country has a history for extreme innovation but what exactly has Hanafin done in Education that is so positive?

Quite frankly, I think she just got away with good timing, benefiting from all of the good work as a result of the white paper, done just before her time.
I cant think of a single positive change she has put into effect.

Perhaps you're not acutely in tune with educational issues specifically, but during her reign as Minister for Education, there was huge overhaul and progression in the education system, some examples being:

- reforming the entry system for the study of Medicine
- founding of the DEIS schooling system for the socioeconomically challenged
- in 2006 she brought about new scholarships for Leaving Certificate students from disadvantaged backgrounds
- reforming the percentage weight of the Irish oral examination

EoghanRua · 23-01-2011 10:43PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

She probably gets alot of votes because of people going...

'Ohh look on TV, she taught me in school, will vote for her because she knows me'

Hopefully the novelty of seeing your teacher on TV has worn off with the electorate...

She topped the poll in Dún Laoghaire with over 20 per cent of the vote last time out. She must have had seriously huge classes in her school if that's what's doing it for her.

MonkeyDoo · 23-01-2011 11:03PM

EoghanRua wrote: »

She topped the poll in Dún Laoghaire with over 20 per cent of the vote last time out. She must have had seriously huge classes in her school if that's what's doing it for her.

So 80% of people didn't like her last election...and yet she was still inflicted on the nation.....your living in the past EoghanRua....wake up she won't get 5% of the vote this time round....and they'll be the 'Ohh...look she used to teach me' brigade...

delta_bravo · 24-01-2011 06:15PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

So 80% of people didn't like her last election...and yet she was still inflicted on the nation.....your living in the past EoghanRua....wake up she won't get 5% of the vote this time round....and they'll be the 'Ohh...look she used to teach me' brigade...

Thats not how PR-STV works. She exceeded the quota on the first count so they dont count all the other lower preferences she would have gotten. I expect she will get in again. She has a much better image to the public than most FFers.

UnLuckyAgain · 24-01-2011 08:44PM

If only she weren't part of FF. She would have my first preference vote. Although I do expect that she will get in, she seems to have a solid head on her shoulders

EoghanRua · 24-01-2011 10:09PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

So 80% of people didn't like her last election...and yet she was still inflicted on the nation.....your living in the past EoghanRua....wake up she won't get 5% of the vote this time round....and they'll be the 'Ohh...look she used to teach me' brigade...

"80% of people didn't like her last election"..............and I'm the one living in the past?

I realise you were delivering a cheap shot and not expecting to be challenged as politicians are fair game at the moment but you're talking through your hat.

This is what you wrote originally: She probably gets alot of votes because of people going... 'Ohh look on TV, she taught me in school, will vote for her because she knows me' Hopefully the novelty of seeing your teacher on TV has worn off with the electorate...

You were using the present and past tenses - I merely called you on such ill-though out nonsense. Clearly you were implying that nobody other than her students voted for her in the past which obviously is complete b******s. But at least have the gallantry to take ownership of that piece of kak and don't mind now trying to reinterpret it and fob it off as 'what'll happen in the next election'.

MonkeyDoo · 25-01-2011 07:44PM

EoghanRua wrote: »

"80% of people didn't like her last election"..............and I'm the one living in the past?

I realise you were delivering a cheap shot and not expecting to be challenged as politicians are fair game at the moment but you're talking through your hat.

This is what you wrote originally: She probably gets alot of votes because of people going... 'Ohh look on TV, she taught me in school, will vote for her because she knows me' Hopefully the novelty of seeing your teacher on TV has worn off with the electorate...

You were using the present and past tenses - I merely called you on such ill-though out nonsense. Clearly you were implying that nobody other than her students voted for her in the past which obviously is complete b******s. But at least have the gallantry to take ownership of that piece of kak and don't mind now trying to reinterpret it and fob it off as 'what'll happen in the next election'.

EoghanRua,

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

The statistic you came up with, was just expressed differently. eg. 1 in 5 voted for her, could also be expressed as 4 out of 5 didn't vote for her. There was no cheap shot. I said you were living in the past because your statistic was from the last general election!

The post stated she must get 'alot' of votes from her former students but you inferred from this 'that nobody other than her students voted for her'

I never wrote 'that nobody other than her students voted for her' That was a product of your mind along with the use of bold and underline to change the emphasis of what was actually written.

The 'complete b******s' as you so crudely put it was written by you.

Mary Hanifin is fair game.

On the subject of jobs, Mary Hanifin comes back with 'there will always be jobs for teachers'.

That answer was just not good enough. There are alot of teachers not working and the majority of the country aren't teachers.

She fobbed the electorate off with her answer.

EoghanRua · 25-01-2011 11:28PM

MonkeyDoo wrote: »

EoghanRua,

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

The statistic you came up with, was just expressed differently. eg. 1 in 5 voted for her, could also be expressed as 4 out of 5 didn't vote for her. There was no cheap shot. I said you were living in the past because your statistic was from the last general election!

The post stated she must get 'alot' of votes from her former students but you inferred from this 'that nobody other than her students voted for her'

I never wrote 'that nobody other than her students voted for her' That was a product of your mind along with the use of bold and underline to change the emphasis of what was actually written.

The 'complete b******s' as you so crudely put it was written by you.

Mary Hanifin is fair game.

On the subject of jobs, Mary Hanifin comes back with 'there will always be jobs for teachers'.

That answer was just not good enough. There are alot of teachers not working and the majority of the country aren't teachers.

She fobbed the electorate off with her answer.

"nobody other than her students voted for her"............I never accused you of writing this.

What you wrote implied that this made up a significant element of her vote - otherwise why mention her students as opposed to, say, other subsets of her voters such as old-age pensioners or people who have red cars etc? Now please stop trying to wriggle out of what you wrote. If you have some specific information on the breakdown of her vote, why not share it, or else stop talking sh*te.

Mary Hanafin is not fair game to any nitwit hiding behind a user-name on a discussion board. If you have a legitimate criticism/comment to make, let's have it - for example you might start by giving us the question to which she responded and then we can decide on whether the answer was good enough or not. I cannot do so unless I know the question.

If she did say 'there will always be jobs for teachers" then clearly she is utterly correct in the abstract (unless as I have said before there is a plan to dispense with the education service in which case clearly there won't always be jobs for teachers). But there always being jobs for teachers does not mean that you or I have an inalienable right to anything. I suspect this might be the source of your own ranting attitude. But if you have a gripe at least have the cojones to throw it out in the open and defend it.

I look forward to you providing the question for some context on her remark and we'll take it from there.

Mary Hanafin on Frontline tonight .. Quote: "There will always be jobs for teachers"

Comments