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Say possible goodbye to religious symbols in the classroom. UPDATE: No Joy!

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Comments

  • #32
    positron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭positron


    Do we have a secular constituation to begin with..?!


  • #33
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Ebbs wrote: »
    Im kind of split over this. While I am a angry keyboard atheist, the cross has grown to mean more than christianity.

    Ive seen people get tattoos, necklaces and such that dont believe in christ, but believe in a god. While I agree these people are indeed idiots to disassoiate the image of christ as christianity, it is widely accepted in popular culture that a cross means more than christianity.

    But ultimately it's sign of jseus dying for everyones sins (ok it's god sending himslef to protect us from him because adam and eve ate some fruit). Now in christianity, only belivers go to heaven and non belivers go to hell; so what you're saying to non christian (children mind you, not that most christian children have a choice in what they believe) children is that because you don't believe in that man/god you are going to hell.
    Lovely stuff.


  • #34
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Unpossible wrote: »
    Highlighted is the tricky bit, in Ireland your average "religious" school e.g. C.B.S. schools are technically private aren't they? As far as I'm aware state owned schools are already free from religious symbols. Similarly I've been told that this is the case in the UK, the public schools have no symbols but the "private" catholic ones do.
    You could indeed be very right. Its something that will have to be looked at with the outcome of the ruling today.
    Unpossible wrote: »
    ...Personally I think it would be interesting to see all religious symbols banned form schools. However a more practical idea would just be to not allow schools to display them.

    Aye. That might just be the more easier route to take than get bogged down in legal technicalities that some orgs will want to twist through, to get their way.


  • #35
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,085 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Such as......?

    Well, the cross originally meant the Romans were gonna execute you.

    There's also the Celtic cross which is a different type of cross.


  • #36
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,085 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    positron wrote: »
    Do we have a secular constituation to begin with..?!

    Nope, loads of stuff about Jaysus in it. :mad:


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  • #37
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    de na na na na na na na JAKKASS!!!

    I have zero issue with this actually as long as it only pertains to what is in the room rather than what individual students choose to wear.


  • #38
    PrincessLola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    Unpossible wrote: »
    Highlighted is the tricky bit, in Ireland your average "religious" school e.g. C.B.S. schools are technically private aren't they?.

    But they recieve state funding. Teachers salaries are also paid by the gov.


  • #39
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    I think its only God....


  • #40
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Such as......?
    Two perpendicular lines...


  • #41
    Unpossible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭Unpossible


    Biggins wrote: »
    Aye. That might just be the more easier route to take than get bogged down in legal technicalities that some orgs will want to twist through, to get their way.
    It would also better prepare students for the real world. Much as I would like religion to be kept quietly in peoples homes the fact remains that it isn't and we need the next generation to look past the fact that the person they are dealing with is wearing a cross/head scarf etc.
    Forcing all students to not display religious symbols in school will bring a whole host of difficulties such as enforcement, claims by some quarters that it restricts their human rights and may end up in segregation for certain religions.


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  • #42
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    I'm an atheist but I dont think religious symbols should be banned. All religions should be represented instead.


  • #43
    Unpossible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭Unpossible


    PrincessLola wrote: »
    But they recieve state funding. Teachers salaries are also paid by the gov.
    Yep, hence my quotes around the word private for the Irish catholic schools and not for the other types I mentioned. Its really trying to have your cake and eat it too.


  • #44
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Unpossible wrote: »
    ...we need the next generation to look past the fact that the person they are dealing with is wearing a cross/head scarf etc.
    Forcing all students to not display religious symbols in school will bring a whole host of difficulties such as enforcement, claims by some quarters that it restricts their human rights and may end up in segregation for certain religions.

    Indeed, its minefield of arguments for and against.
    There already have been cases in England (and Europe elsewhere possibly) similar about clothing at schools.
    Its a whole mess what up to now hasn't been resolved to a good conclusion and for the foreseeable future, I don't see being resolved further either.
    I do think that we have to start somewhere though and such steps like the above mention in my first post, have to be tried.
    It might be hit and miss at times but only by trying such efforts will we be able to further down the line change, tweak etc, maybe come to a better conclusion.
    I'm an eternal optimist.


  • #45
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    On the plus side it will piss David Quinn off.


  • #46
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    fontanalis wrote: »
    On the plus side it will piss David Quinn off.

    Forgive my genuine lack of knowledge. Who?


  • #47
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,085 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    I'm an atheist but I dont think religious symbols should be banned. All religions should be represented instead.

    Every single religion?

    How many is that?


  • #48
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Your version of Ireland never existed. Wrapping the country in suppsosed catholicism didn't prevent institutionalised child abuse, mass emigration and high unemployment.

    What are you talking about?

    How do you know what MY "version" of Ireland is.

    It is the reasons that we are doing this that I take issue with.

    What's next, stop Christmas Carols being sung on Grafton St or take down the pope's cross if someone complains that it's spoiling their enjoyment of having a picnic in the park.


  • #49
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Every single religion?

    How many is that?

    Lord knows (no pun intended) but it will be plus or minus one, depending how you feel about Scientology.


  • #50
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    I'm an atheist but I dont think religious symbols should be banned. All religions should be represented instead.
    All.
    We're gonna need a bigger class room:eek:


  • #51
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    I'm an atheist but I dont think religious symbols should be banned. All religions should be represented instead.
    No.


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  • #52
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Biggins wrote: »
    Forgive my genuine lack of knowledge. Who?

    Writes for d'independent. Good holier than thou catholic; you know pro life/pro iraq war!


  • #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    ...........
    It is the reasons that we are doing this that I take issue with.

    ..........

    And those are...?


  • #54
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Writes for d'independent...
    Aaa... cheers. :)


  • #55
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    What's next, stop Christmas Carols being sung on Grafton St or take down the pope's cross if someone complains that it's spoiling their enjoyment of having a picnic in the park.

    Listen, because of complaints from refugees in our schools, we can't have nativity plays for the last few years already.


  • #56
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    How do you know what MY "version" of Ireland is.

    It is the reasons that we are doing this that I take issue with.

    What's next, stop Christmas Carols being sung on Grafton St or take down the pope's cross if someone complains that it's spoiling their enjoyment of having a picnic in the park.

    How is it Ireland RIP? No I don't think carols on Grafton street will be next or should be.


  • #57
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gbee wrote: »
    Listen, because of complaints from refugees in our schools, we can't have nativity plays for the last few years already.

    You've a news article or something on that....?


  • #58
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Nodin wrote: »
    And those are...?

    To become the inoffensive franchise, palatable to the masses.


  • #59
    Craebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭Craebear


    Good stuff.


  • #60
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    To become the inoffensive franchise, palatable to the masses.

    You mean children who are being shown a symbol that because they don't belive in it that they are going to hell. That's disgusting, nothing to do with offense.


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  • #61
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    All.
    We're gonna need a bigger class room:eek:
    Why. Kids already learn about other religions in school as it is.


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