David Norris on the 1916 rebels...

Wolfe Tone · 22-03-2011 05:59PM #1

As you all (probably!) know there have been claims bandied around all over the internet (I've done it myself) and newspapers in the past claiming David Norris has called the 1916 rebels "terrorists" among other things. Anyway, to try and settle it I decided to email the man and ask....

This is what I sent:

"The next President of Ireland will be in situ for the centenary commemoration of the Easter Rising 2016. It's difficult to imagine President Norris standing proudly at the GPO as the leader of that particular ceremony."

A chara,

I have read numerous passages(such as the above) stating that you believe and maintain that the 1916 rebels where terrorists. Considering that one of the major roles of the next president will be to oversee the centenary celebrations I ask for your opinions on Pearse, Connolly and co. Do you feel that they where heroes for instance? Do you believe they where right to do what they did? Or where they wrong? Will you honor them and their memory as president? Do you honor their memory currently?

Your answers to the above questions may remove the last "stumbling block" which is preventing me from committing to support you in the forthcoming presidential election, and indeed, voting for you come polling day.

Is mise le meas,

<My Name>

I sent the above to david.norris@oireachtas.ie and his campaign email address, and to be honest, I expected it to be ignored.

However, today I was pleasantly surprised to recieve a reply from his Oireachtas account, and here it is...

Dear <my name>,

Thank you for contacting me and raising your concerns about the rumours that have been circulated about me calling the heros of 1916 terrorists. I never made any such comment and in fact had a major Sunday newspaper print a retraction stating so.

I have great admiration for the men and women of 1916 and it would be my great honour to stand at the GPO and honour their bravery. I do hope this answers your concerns.

With best wishes
David Norris

Thought some of you would be interested in reading it!

Dr. Baltar · 22-03-2011 06:03PM

I too was considering voting for Higgins because of this. That would throw me in the Norris supporters then.

PatsytheNazi · 22-03-2011 06:07PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

As you all (probably!) know there have been claims bandied around all over the internet (I've done it myself) and newspapers in the past claiming David Norris has called the 1916 rebels "terrorists" among other things. Anyway, to try and settle it I decided to email the man and ask....

This is what I sent:

I sent the above to david.norris@oireachtas.ie and his campaign email address, and to be honest, I expected it to be ignored.

However, today I was pleasantly surprised to recieve a reply from his Oireachtas account, and here it is...

Thought some of you would be interested in reading it!

" I never made any such comment and in fact had a major Sunday newspaper print a retraction stating so. "

Sir Tony's leading comic the Sunday Indo I suppose ?? :rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone · 22-03-2011 06:12PM

I don't know what newspaper it was, although I am sure with some investigation you would be able to find out.

KeithAFC · 22-03-2011 06:13PM

See it all the time on here with that sort of view about the 1916 rebels. Even though he didn't say it, it would hardly be shocking or wrong if he did.

Wolfe Tone · 22-03-2011 06:15PM

Keith let us get past the first page at least before digging trenches and debating about the merits of the 1916 rising and the rebels.

edwinkane · 22-03-2011 06:15PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I don't know what newspaper it was, although I am sure with some investigation you would be able to find out.

There was a story about the Queen mother having tea with two friends, Benjamin Britten and his partner, Peter Pears. The three of them are sitting down nto tea, and the Queen mother says, "well, isn't this nice, three queens together".

I'd love to see Norris and Queen Brenda sitting down to tea at the aras!

A.Tomas · 22-03-2011 06:15PM

Fair play to you and to him.

In fact Sarah Carey repeated those comments in the Irish Times only recently, and judging by the comments afterwards people incl. myself were still frustrated about his thoughts.

A.Tomas · 22-03-2011 06:22PM

A.Tomas wrote: »

Fair play to you and to him.

In fact Sarah Carey repeated those comments in the Irish Times only recently, and judging by the comments afterwards people incl. myself were still frustrated about his thoughts.

That said ... he still wants Ireland to be her Majesty's subjects in that patronising at the least, triumphalist at the most, awful organistion, the British Commonwealth.

Incidentally, I'm sure the other far right loony, bigotted neo-unionist types, Mary Kenny, Myers, Lord Bean, eh...loyalists, he associated with there
("Reform" Ireland), would have liked him to have seen the 1916 rebels as rocking the boat.

Re-write the e-mail exactly with that quote. Hee-hee.

edwinkane · 22-03-2011 06:31PM

A.Tomas wrote: »

That said ... he still wants Ireland to be her Majesty's subjects in that patronising at the least, triumphalist at the most, awful organistion, the British Commonwealth.

Incidentally, I'm sure the other far right loony, bigotted neo-unionist types, Mary Kenny, Myers, Lord Bean, eh...loyalists, he associated with there
("Reform" Ireland), would have liked him to have seen the 1916 rebels as rocking the boat.

Re-write the e-mail exactly with that quote. Hee-hee.

Well, Ireland does seem to be a strange country. It gained independence from the UK only to hand it over almost wholly to the Vatican. And now that Ireland has managed to run the Vatican out of town, it plunges headlong into a debt spiral, and hands over the deeds of the country to the EU. I wonder will Ireland ever actually govern itself on its own?

laughter189 · 22-03-2011 06:36PM

Well he's not getting my vote ,

Imo he is more English than Irish

A.Tomas · 22-03-2011 06:48PM

edwinkane wrote: »

Well, Ireland does seem to be a strange country. It gained independence from the UK only to hand it over almost wholly to the Vatican. And now that Ireland has managed to run the Vatican out of town, it plunges headlong into a debt spiral, and hands over the deeds of the country to the EU. I wonder will Ireland ever actually govern itself on its own?

Were we in the Vatican empire? I thought many people were just practicing their religion?

The EU, not really the same modus operandi as Britannia though or indeed anything like it. (unfortunately for UKIP wanting to make gains in Ireland).

Denerick · 22-03-2011 06:51PM

This will make me less likely to vote for him.

I believe that he really does think that the men of 1916 were effectively terrorists - and if not exactly terrorists, then at the very least violent fanatics, the kind who'll eventually get the whole world killed.

I believe he backtracked on this and claimed that he doesn't think they were terrorists because it won't go down well with the little irelander crowd.

Tis politics I suppose.

It would have been refreshing to see a politician say what he really thinks and bugger to the consequences.

Denerick · 22-03-2011 06:55PM

laughter189 wrote: »

Well he's not getting my vote ,

Imo he is more English than Irish

I know what you mean. Fecking Protestants. Fecking TCD. Whats the world coming to. And don't even get me started on his homosexuality. And he spends his time reading some spoofer called Joyce? Why can't we have a real, genuine Irishman as President, someone who knows the people, feels their concerns, listens to them after GAA matches, goes to the funerals of people he's never met, fills the pothole with good home grown Irish dung.

sceptre · 22-03-2011 07:25PM

Cheers for taking the time to do that, Wolfe Tone. Quite often various quotes from various people get bandied about as fact, with no-one taking the time to check them. Going straight to the source can often be the best way to do that and sometimes (as in this case) find out that the quote touted as fact is utter bunkum. Kudos.

Apogee · 22-03-2011 07:55PM

A.Tomas wrote: »

That said ... he still wants Ireland to be her Majesty's subjects in that patronising at the least, triumphalist at the most, awful organistion, the British Commonwealth.

Incidentally, I'm sure the other far right loony, bigotted neo-unionist types, Mary Kenny, Myers, Lord Bean, eh...loyalists, he associated with there
("Reform" Ireland), would have liked him to have seen the 1916 rebels as rocking the boat.

It's no longer called the 'British Commonwealth', and several of its members are republics (e.g. South Africa) - as such, they are not "her Majesty's subjects".

That other famous "neo-unionist type", Éamon de Valera, also favoured keeping Ireland in the Commonwealth.

harney · 22-03-2011 08:05PM

Denerick wrote: »

I know what you mean. Fecking Protestants. Fecking TCD. Whats the world coming to. And don't even get me started on his homosexuality. And he spends his time reading some spoofer called Joyce? Why can't we have a real, genuine Irishman as President, someone who knows the people, feels their concerns, listens to them after GAA matches, goes to the funerals of people he's never met, fills the pothole with good home grown Irish dung.

So Bertie is running then

PeterIanStaker · 22-03-2011 08:20PM

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

" I never made any such comment and in fact had a major Sunday newspaper print a retraction stating so. "

Sir Tony's leading comic the Sunday Indo I suppose ??

That's been the Sindo's line on 1916 for almost a century, all the while the same rag farts on about it being time to "move on" :rolleyes:

Setanta1974 · 22-03-2011 08:30PM

There is no way Norris will get my vote after the interviews he gave on a documentary about nelsons plillar being blown up that was shown on RTE last year. I forget the ins and outs of what he said but I don't forget being sickened listening to some of the things he said.

Maybe someone else will remember what I am refering to and refresh our memories.

Wolfe Tone · 22-03-2011 08:34PM

@Setanta1974

http://www.rte.ie/tv/scannal/nelsonspillar.html

Is this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqh8VvlIZI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkcNnGUpGQ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKK4qYgjCcU

Setanta1974 · 22-03-2011 08:40PM

Thats the one.

"It was the largest phallic monument in the city of Dublin, so what they were doing was actually ritually castrating their own city." Senator David Norris

What a gay thing to say. But it wasn't comments like that that made me angry. I may look through your links tomorrow when I have more time to refresh the memory.

Thanks for the links Wolfe Tone

O Riain · 22-03-2011 08:42PM

laughter189 wrote: »

Well he's not getting my vote ,

Imo he is more English than Irish

He speaks fluent Gaeilge, which automatically makes him more Irish then most Irish.

Denerick · 22-03-2011 08:43PM

Setanta1974 wrote: »

Thats the one.

"It was the largest phallic monument in the city of Dublin, so what they were doing was actually ritually castrating their own city." Senator David Norris

He is a Joycean scholar. And he is gay. And he is eccentric. A stupid reason not to vote for him IMO. Up there with an American not voting for Obama because he prefers asparagus to big mac's

dlofnep · 22-03-2011 08:55PM

Fair play to you for contacting him and quelling any rumours. I think people should vote for him, not for his sexuality - but for who he is as a person and what he can offer Ireland as president.

I'd be tempted to vote for him, just to see the reactions on the faces of some of the leaders of overly-conservative countries when they shake his hand. But then I wouldn't be listening to my own advice.

To be honest, I haven't mind up my mind on who I believe should be president yet.

Don Juan DeMagoo · 22-03-2011 09:09PM

Setanta1974 wrote: »

Thats the one.

"It was the largest phallic monument in the city of Dublin, so what they were doing was actually ritually castrating their own city." Senator David Norris

In my unbiased view I think that is an accurate account of what happened. It was the largest monument in Dublin at the time.

No sane civilized person would blow up a major landmark in their own capital city years after kicking out the brits, what is the point?, should have been done before hand if it was meant to send a message.
It reminds me of when those disgusting hideous Taliban camel humpers blew up all the monuments that were carved into the sides of mountains, for thousands of years because they deemed them blasphemous. Doesn't that just make you mad.....

I once talked with my granddad about what happened to it, he laughed solid. Then told me the ira messed up the explosion of the tower so only half of it was really demolished, then the Irish army lads made a sham of blowing up the rest of it, an utter mess is how he remembered it. But he said no one really cared one way or the other as it had been sounded for a year or so it was going to happen. He did say the last time he went up it, there was a gang of lads using the stairwell as a urinal.

Wolfe Tone · 22-03-2011 09:11PM

It wasnt the IRA who blew it up.

Don Juan DeMagoo · 22-03-2011 09:38PM

That is the story I heard which I thought was fabulously humorous, was that the ira tried to blow up the pillar and irish army nearly blew up Dublin trying to finish the job:D

Here is the wiki quote....

At 02:00 on 8 March 1966, a group of former Irish Republican Army (IRA) volunteers, including Joe Christle,[13] planted a bomb that destroyed the upper half of the pillar, throwing the statue of Nelson into the street and causing large chunks of stone to be thrown around. Christle, dismissed ten years earlier from the IRA for unauthorised actions, was a qualified barrister and saw himself as a socialist revolutionary. It is thought that the bombers acted when they did to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising.
No one was hurt by the explosion. The closest bystander was a 19-year-old taxi driver, Steve Maughan, whose taxi was blasted to pieces.
Six days after the original damage,on the morning of Monday March 14th 1966, Irish Army engineers blew up the rest of the pillar after judging the vestigial structure to be too unsafe to restore. This planned demolition caused more destruction on O'Connell Street than the original blast, breaking many windows.[14]
The rubble from the monument was taken to the East Wall dump and the lettering from the plinth moved to the gardens of Butler House, Kilkenny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Pillar

jakdelad · 22-03-2011 09:52PM

why not vote for david norris
oh sorry its because he s gay and he s accent is english
should we burn him at the stake?? send him back to england???
the man is a pure gentleman and ireland is the better to have him
i will and all my family will vote for that decent honest man....
sooner macalleese gets her sorry asss out of the aras
she was never elected the second time she dug in tighter than
an alabama tick,
this is the same president who called the protestant people
in northern ireland NAZIS
good riddance to her
she wouldent be fit to tie mary robinsons bootlaces

RandomName2 · 22-03-2011 09:57PM

O Riain wrote: »

He speaks fluent Gaeilge, which automatically makes him more Irish then most Irish.

bull****

---

I find it interesting that most people say 'ah the gay thing' as a reason not to vote for Norris/ why he won't be voted for. Unfortunately, in my view, it would be one of the very few reasons to vote for him (not that I have any particular LGBT political preferences

)

One of the key aspects of the Presidency is that the President is meant to be quiet (not to mention non-political and certainly non-opinionated). Methinks Norris falls at the first hurdle.

deise go deo · 22-03-2011 09:57PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

As you all (probably!) know there have been claims bandied around all over the internet (I've done it myself) and newspapers in the past claiming David Norris has called the 1916 rebels "terrorists" among other things. Anyway, to try and settle it I decided to email the man and ask....

This is what I sent:

I sent the above to david.norris@oireachtas.ie and his campaign email address, and to be honest, I expected it to be ignored.

However, today I was pleasantly surprised to recieve a reply from his Oireachtas account, and here it is...

Thought some of you would be interested in reading it!

Iontach!!!

I was thinking of voting for him anyway, but this puts the last of my concerns at rest.:):D:)

O Riain · 22-03-2011 10:08PM

jakdelad wrote: »

why not vote for david norris
oh sorry its because he s gay and he s accent is english
should we burn him at the stake?? send him back to england???
the man is a pure gentleman and ireland is the better to have him
i will and all my family will vote for that decent honest man....
sooner macalleese gets her sorry asss out of the aras
she was never elected the second time she dug in tighter than
an alabama tick,
this is the same president who called the protestant people
in northern ireland NAZIS
good riddance to her
she wouldent be fit to tie mary robinsons bootlaces

"the Nazis had given "to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred, for example, of Catholics..." is this not true?? Also she doesn't call them Nazis, she says they were similar to the Nazis in their breeding of hatred against a minority group.

trashcan · 22-03-2011 10:10PM

tenandtracer wrote: »

I like Big Macs and I like asparagus,

But which is better ?........There's only one way to sort it out .... fiiiiight.:D

Dave! · 22-03-2011 10:45PM

I reckon I'll be voting for him anyway, unless some other candidate blows me away (hehehehe)

First (?) gay president in the world, how progressive would we look?!

Unfortunately it'd hide the fact that we are actually no way socially progressive

dlofnep · 22-03-2011 10:55PM

jakdelad wrote: »

this is the same president who called the protestant people
in northern ireland NAZIS

When exactly did she say that? Evidence?

jakdelad · 22-03-2011 11:00PM

O Riain wrote: »

"the Nazis had given "to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred, for example, of Catholics..." is this not true?? Also she doesn't call them Nazis, she says they were similar to the Nazis in their breeding of hatred against a minority group.

you can spin it anyway you like

she insulted a lot of people for which she had to give a grovelling apology
she let her true feelings for the protestant people show
sooner shes gone the better ireland will be

jakdelad · 22-03-2011 11:01PM

dlofnep wrote: »

When exactly did she say that? Evidence?

here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4214263.stm

dlofnep · 22-03-2011 11:08PM

jakdelad wrote: »

here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4214263.stm

Nothing there about her calling Protestants Nazis. You're really stretching.

Deedsie · 22-03-2011 11:21PM

jakdelad wrote: »

why not vote for david norris
oh sorry its because he s gay and he s accent is english
should we burn him at the stake?? send him back to england???
the man is a pure gentleman and ireland is the better to have him
i will and all my family will vote for that decent honest man....
sooner macalleese gets her sorry asss out of the aras
she was never elected the second time she dug in tighter than
an alabama tick,
this is the same president who called the protestant people
in northern ireland NAZIS
good riddance to her
she wouldent be fit to tie mary robinsons bootlaces

Mary McAleese Is an excellent president. She did more for North-South relations than any of her predecessors. She represented the people with great distinction. She brought about a situation where the head of state of the UK, Queen Elizabeth II will be visiting Ireland. She was the perfect president. I wish her well in whatever she does next and thank her very much for all of her efforts.

And if you must drag up that Nazi rubbish, at least analyse it impartially. It was clearly an ill advised analogy, but a relatively accurate description of how kids are brought up in both communities of Northern Ireland.

baalthor · 22-03-2011 11:42PM

Don Juan DeMagoo wrote: »

That is the story I heard which I thought was fabulously humorous, was that the ira tried to blow up the pillar and irish army nearly blew up Dublin trying to finish the job:D

Here is the wiki quote....

At 02:00 on 8 March 1966, a group of former Irish Republican Army (IRA) volunteers, including Joe Christle,[13] planted a bomb that destroyed the upper half of the pillar, throwing the statue of Nelson into the street and causing large chunks of stone to be thrown around. Christle, dismissed ten years earlier from the IRA for unauthorised actions, was a qualified barrister and saw himself as a socialist revolutionary. It is thought that the bombers acted when they did to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising.
No one was hurt by the explosion. The closest bystander was a 19-year-old taxi driver, Steve Maughan, whose taxi was blasted to pieces.
Six days after the original damage,on the morning of Monday March 14th 1966, Irish Army engineers blew up the rest of the pillar after judging the vestigial structure to be too unsafe to restore. This planned demolition caused more destruction on O'Connell Street than the original blast, breaking many windows.[14]
The rubble from the monument was taken to the East Wall dump and the lettering from the plinth moved to the gardens of Butler House, Kilkenny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Pillar

The IR whoever blew the top off the pillar.
The army were left with the task of removing the remains i.e. almost the entire structure.
Before the operation the officer in charge predicted it would do far more damage than the original blast but that this was unavoidable as they had a much bigger piece of rock to remove.

About Norris and the 1916 rebels: The last time this came up I googled the IT, Independent and Norris's Seanad speeches online and could find no source of Norris saying this. All I found were reports of him saying so with no explanation of when or where he actually made the statements.

It's worth noting that Norris previously had an Israeli partner and is very supportive of the Palestinian cause.

gigino · 23-03-2011 12:58AM

Deedsie wrote: »

It was clearly an ill advised analogy, but a relatively accurate description of how kids are brought up in both communities of Northern Ireland.

but she did not refer to the children of both communities, or to the children of the side of the sectarian divide in which she grew up. As someone else correctly said, she insulted a lot of people for which she had to give a grovelling apology,she let her true feelings for the protestant people show ...and the sooner shes gone the better ireland will be. She put her foot in it and said something the President of Ireland should not have said. Mary Robinson was a much better President. As a small bankrupt country, we should not be spending so many millions of the office of President anyway. n.b. talking of our leaders and Nazis, did not DeValera sign a book of condolences on the death of Hitler at the German embassy ? I am glad someone stood up to Nazism more than DeValera. While some people on both sides did many wrong and bad things in N. Ireland, Nazism was in a different league ...and many people in N. Ireland would justifiably say they were at least part of a jurisdiction at war with it / which fought it. McAleese should have been aware of that.

ISAW · 23-03-2011 10:55AM

gigino wrote: »

but she did not refer to the children of both communities, or to the children of the side of the sectarian divide in which she grew up.

In fact she did. As far as i remember the President commented on children going to a Catholic school only a street or two from where she grew up and having to run the gauntlet of bottles of piss and pipe bombs being thrown at them. it was similar to how nazis treated minorities like Jews or gypsies. tyhe school is surrounded by a Loyalist area.

As someone else correctly said, she insulted a lot of people for which she had to give a grovelling apology,she let her true feelings for the protestant people show ...and the sooner shes gone the better ireland will be. She put her foot in it and said something the President of Ireland should not have said. Mary Robinson was a much better President. As a small bankrupt country, we should not be spending so many millions of the office of President anyway. n.b. talking of our leaders and Nazis, did not DeValera sign a book of condolences on the death of Hitler at the German embassy ? I am glad someone stood up to Nazism more than DeValera. While some people on both sides did many wrong and bad things in N. Ireland, Nazism was in a different league ...and many people in N. Ireland would justifiably say they were at least part of a jurisdiction at war with it / which fought it. McAleese should have been aware of that.

1. More people from the Republican south fought and died in WWI and WWII againist the Nazis than from the North.

2. Nazis started by intimidation of minorities and helpless people and gradually grew.

Compare that with this:
09/20/01 -The Loyalist protest at the Holy Cross Girls' Primary
School continued but protesters reverted to the earlier tactic of
making a lot of noise as school children passed.

09/28/01 - A concrete block was thrown at a school bus in north
Belfast. Seven children were injured in the incident. The bus was
taking children, aged 12 to 16 years, to Hazelwood Integrated
College when it was attacked at Skegoniel Avenue.

10/10/01 - The Loyalist protest at the Holy Cross Girls' Primary
School resumed at the beginning of a new week. Protesters held a
noisy protest but also threw ballons, filled with urine, at parents
and children.

10/26/01 - A British Army soldier (18) was seriously injured when
Loyalist paramilitaries threw a pipe-bomb at a group of soldiers in
the Ardoyne Road, north Belfast, at 9.00pm (2100BST). The Royal
Ulster Constabulary (RUC) claimed that the soldiers had been lured
into an ambush and that the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) was
responsible for the attack. Several RUC officers were also injured
in the attack.

Two people were arrested during the the Loyalist protest outside
the Holy Cross Girls' Primary School in Ardoyne, north Belfast.
Loyalists had tried to block the road and prevent parents from
gaining access to the school.

Deedsie · 23-03-2011 11:51AM

gigino wrote: »

but she did not refer to the children of both communities, or to the children of the side of the sectarian divide in which she grew up. As someone else correctly said, she insulted a lot of people for which she had to give a grovelling apology,she let her true feelings for the protestant people show ...and the sooner shes gone the better ireland will be. She put her foot in it and said something the President of Ireland should not have said. Mary Robinson was a much better President. As a small bankrupt country, we should not be spending so many millions of the office of President anyway. n.b. talking of our leaders and Nazis, did not DeValera sign a book of condolences on the death of Hitler at the German embassy ? I am glad someone stood up to Nazism more than DeValera. While some people on both sides did many wrong and bad things in N. Ireland, Nazism was in a different league ...and many people in N. Ireland would justifiably say they were at least part of a jurisdiction at war with it / which fought it. McAleese should have been aware of that.

How dare she speak the truth... As I said it was I'll advised, but if one sentence is the only issue against her after 14 years in the Aras. We were blessed to have such a wonderful president. She repelresented the entire Irish nation, I hope her successor can do as good a job. Senator Norris could bring the role of the president in an exciting new direction.

cornbb · 23-03-2011 02:43PM

Dave! wrote: »

First (?) gay president in the world, how progressive would we look?!

I don't think that this is a good enough reason to vote for someone. It'd be a nice side effect to show the world we've progressed by electing a gay president, but its hardly factor in how good a president it would make.

Voting for someone because they are gay is only slightly less bad than not voting for someone because they're gay, IMO.

Denerick · 23-03-2011 02:52PM

cornbb wrote: »

I don't think that this is a good enough reason to vote for someone. It'd be a nice side effect to show the world we've progressed by electing a gay president, but its hardly factor in how good a president it would make.

Voting for someone because they are gay is only slightly less bad than not voting for someone because they're gay, IMO.

I disagree. The Irish Presidency is almost entirely ceremonial and hence symbolic - for example it was nice to have a woman in office for the past 14 years. The same would go for a homosexual. I know Norris' political views and they are compatible with mine. I dislike all the other contenders (Including Michael D.Higgins who probably has a very good chance of winning)

If Norris gets my vote it will be because he is gay and because he is a Joycean scholar.

Dave! · 23-03-2011 02:57PM

Well considering the position carries with it pretty much no power, I think that superficial stuff like this is pretty much all that matters! I'll have to learn more about him to make sure he doesn't have any crazy opinions or ideas that would preclude him (if he were totally against celebrating the 1916 rebels, then that might preclude him, because of 2016 etc), but besides that I don't see how much deeper I need to be analysing this

I don't think (like some people do) that he'll be making a show of us internationally because of his personality, I think he'll do fine.

Dave! · 23-03-2011 05:36PM

Just saw this speech by Michael D. Higgins and now I'm conflicted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9cSSH6imyM

Passionate and articulate!

dlofnep · 23-03-2011 06:03PM

Dave! wrote: »

Just saw this speech by Michael D. Higgins and now I'm conflicted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9cSSH6imyM

Passionate and articulate!

Great speech that!

PeakOutput · 23-03-2011 06:24PM

Dave! wrote: »

Well considering the position carries with it pretty much no power, I think that superficial stuff like this is pretty much all that matters! I'll have to learn more about him to make sure he doesn't have any crazy opinions or ideas that would preclude him (if he were totally against celebrating the 1916 rebels, then that might preclude him, because of 2016 etc), but besides that I don't see how much deeper I need to be analysing this I don't think (like some people do) that he'll be making a show of us internationally because of his personality, I think he'll do fine.

you should probably read the op

Dave! · 23-03-2011 06:30PM

I have, I meant IF he were against them, then I might (have) not vote(d) for him, because that'll be a major thing for the next president

But given that he's not, that's not an obstacle!

cornbb · 23-03-2011 07:02PM

Dave! wrote: »

Well considering the position carries with it pretty much no power, I think that superficial stuff like this is pretty much all that matters! I'll have to learn more about him to make sure he doesn't have any crazy opinions or ideas that would preclude him (if he were totally against celebrating the 1916 rebels, then that might preclude him, because of 2016 etc), but besides that I don't see how much deeper I need to be analysing this I don't think (like some people do) that he'll be making a show of us internationally because of his personality, I think he'll do fine.

A President, as a head of state with little political power, is something of a shopfront for the state, I think we agree on that, but that doesn't mean a president should be superficial, or should be elected for superficial reasons. I think its important for the president to be a figurehead in the sense that they should represent as wide broad a spectrum of Irish people as possible, and represent their aspirations and openness and Céad Míle Fáiltes. A person of substance is needed for this, not just someone who looks the part.

David Norris has an outstanding record of campaigning for human rights for example, and if he is elected I hope that it would be on the back of that rather than simply by virtue of the fact that he is gay. It is a very good thing that being gay or being a woman or being born in Northern Ireland would not preclude someone from being president. But, for example, I think Mary Robinson's presidency was extremely popular/successful because she was an intelligent, progressive, unifying woman, not simply because she was the first woman to become president.

Based on the current speculated candidates, Norris would be my second choice and Michael D. would be my first, simply because I think Michael D.'s background is more rounded and more inclusive. They both have very respectable track records, but I don't think Norris' career as a "Joycean scholar and campaigner for the preservation of Georgian buildings" would quite make him the figurehead of the Irish population that I referred to above. I don't think he'd be the worst choice though, far from it, and I'd wish him well as president if he were elected.

ICTIRELAND · 23-03-2011 08:09PM

Thank you Wolf tone for posting that reply! Few people I know had heard the rumour too so that like most rumours sorts that out!!!

David Norris on the 1916 rebels...

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