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Father and daughter expect child together

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Yes.. why not?
    You just don't hear very many people calling for that, do you? But everyone gets pretty worked up about incest

    Where do you draw the line on that BTW? Family history is a good predictor of some cancers and heart disease, do we extend this policy to that as well?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,191 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    strobe wrote: »
    Eugenics ftw!

    That Hitler fella gave eugenics a bad name! He ruined the swastika too
    Dave! wrote: »
    You just don't hear very many people calling for that, do you? But everyone gets pretty worked up about incest

    Where do you draw the line on that BTW? Family history is a good predictor of some cancers and heart disease, do we extend this policy to that as well?

    No, it shouldn't be extended to cover stuff which is not a certainty. If it's 100% certain that a child will inherit a severe disease which is likely to cause suffering then the parents should be dissuaded from procreating.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,408 ✭✭✭Captain_Generic


    That Hitler fella gave eugenics a bad name! He ruined the swastika too

    And a rather fetching moustache


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    It's OK! It's GSA!
    *flashes forward to a vision of 17 people chanting in a parade*


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Samba


    I call BS on this one, this is a money spinner imo. Would anyone honestly go and tell their story to the world as if they were proud of their incest?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    I don't really buy into the Genetic sexual attraction thing. It's say it's more of a psychological thing. When we grow up with our family members we probably subconciously learn that they are not viable sexual partners. But when two family members grow up apart from each other they don't develop that subconcious block and then incest happens.

    In any case i bet Freud would have a field day with this story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,408 ✭✭✭Captain_Generic


    Samba wrote: »
    Would anyone honestly go and tell their story to the world as if they were proud of their incest?

    Like a certain politician complaining about a revolving door and exposing his sons questionable life skills


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Aoifey!


    I don't think the situation is as horribly sick as people are saying by itself, but bringing a child into it was wrong. They never knew each other as father and daughter - although genetically related I would consider what makes a father is being there while the child is growing up. I don't find too much of a problem here, although I can see the argument against it.

    My problem is the fact that they are putting so much stress on this child's life. Even if the child is born perfectly normal, the emotional damage of this will be massive. It is in the papers, people know about it. Besides having to come to terms with the fact the his father is his grandfather and his mother is his sister, he may very well get bullied horribly in school as he gets older. IMO bringing a child into this situation was jsut wrong.


    Also, why did they tell everyone? Why not just say it was someone elses child as another poster mentioned?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Aishae


    what struck me - lets assume the GSA is a reeality or like has been suggested: we develop a sort of mental block to family.
    You might understand it happening if eg. 2 siblings randomly meet - assuming they are strangers. and theres an attraction there, they start a relationship and then somehow find out the truth.
    but this girl sought out her dad. she knew she was meeting her dad - someone she's closely related to. i assume she told him up front who she was.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Dave! wrote: »
    hmmm, but then what about two unrelated people who get together, but one of them has a hereditary medical condition which is likely to be passed onto any offspring?

    I'm not sure what birth defects tend to result from incest, whether they're just cosmetic, or debilitating, or what. But for example haemophilia is hereditary, and I think autism has a large genetic component too, so you could have a child, knowing that their risk of these disorders is increased.

    So if we're being consistent, shouldn't we want these people to avoid reproduction too?

    </devil's advocate>

    Well in Israel Ashkenazi Jews have a database of people with the recessive condition Tay-Sachs disease. If you have it you can check if your partner does too, in which case the relationship tends to end. I would encourge that kind of approach for debilitating conditions. For the likes of haemochromatosis or other easily treated conditions it doesnt mater.

    For the likes of huntingtons where the children have a 50% chance of getting it if one parent has it its a much tougher call. Hopefully someday they''ll be able to screen zygotes for it and select ones without for IVF implantation


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭Eever


    How akward would it be if only 1 of them had GSA...

    I watched a documentary on GSA on TV3 or something last year, and one of the couples was in that situation. This man found his biological sister after years of searching, they were both in their sixties I think. The man and his wife went over to America to meet the sister and they stayed with her for a while. During this time he kept fussing over his sister and generally it became clear that he was attracted to her, his wife and sister were the first to notice and neither of them were impressed! The sister definately had no such feelings towards him. I think he started therapy and has come through it now and is now able to be around his sister and treat her like a sister.

    I guess she really can answer truthfully to "who's ya daddy" when he's bonking her. :P

    Sick but I laughed!


    I know someone who is adopted and has such a fear of this GSA thing. He's scared of meeting some girl in a nightclub and her turning out to be his sister. As a rule he won't go near any girls from the county he was born in!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Asphyxia


    Crazy!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Sid_Justice


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Do some basic research on genetic issues caused by incestuous relationships and any children born from it.
    There is always a chance that physically, or mentally, there will be no direct results, however there is an increased chance.

    However, in the long term, the mental results can be quite traumatic. Imagine this child growing up with people in the knowledge his parents are Father and Daughter, it is highly likely to have a huge negative impact on his/her life.

    p.s.
    keep taking shots son, but you're doing it wrong.

    The premise is two closely related human beings (e.g. a brother and sister) will share a similar genome. As everyone has a mixture of benign, advantageous and undesirable genes, it's a good idea to mix your genes about so you don't get two copies of the same bad gene and become homozygous for a bad recessive trait.

    There seems to be a misconception amongst the general public that one instance of inbreeding will produce a child with 3 heads. Problems with inbreeding are seen in small populations where there is repeated inbreeding across generations e.g. galactosemia in Irish Travellers. As usual you have to take every idiot on boards' posts with a pinch of salt but i think it's important for the uninformed to keep their opinions to themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭this is arse


    it's only a matter of time before incest people start pushing the boundaries e.g. equal rights and marraige, that's what i mean...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    123balltv wrote: »
    this world keeps getting sicker

    It's always had a sick side, the sick **** is just happening to new people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Sid_Justice


    what difference does it make to you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Agonist


    Dave! wrote: »
    hmmm, but then what about two unrelated people who get together, but one of them has a hereditary medical condition which is likely to be passed onto any offspring?

    I'm not sure what birth defects tend to result from incest, whether they're just cosmetic, or debilitating, or what. But for example haemophilia is hereditary, and I think autism has a large genetic component too, so you could have a child, knowing that their risk of these disorders is increased.

    So if we're being consistent, shouldn't we want these people to avoid reproduction too?

    </devil's advocate>

    The difference in that case is that only one of the couple has the hereditary condition. If they want to reproduce at all they'll have to take the risk of passing it on. This couple just have to avoid having a child together to avoid any risk. They can have children with other people if they choose.

    I don't see a problem with them having sex. It makes me wonder though that if having sex and harming nobody is fine for them, why is bestiality with the human at the receiving end a crime? (Getting a bit grossed out by the subjest tbh)


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 8,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fluorescence


    In any case i bet Freud would have a field day with this story.

    Nah, it's the wrong way round. He preferred boys boinking their mammys :pac:


    Fair enough, you can't help who you're attracted to. BUT. In this case they knew they were father-daughter before they met, even though they'd never met before that. So why would they want to act on their GSA considering they already were aware of their relation?? I mean, do you go around getting involved with everyone you're attracted to? :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    what difference does it make to you?

    Rape, murder, paedophilia - these don't make a difference to those not affected by it, but everyone is entitled to an opinion on those crimes.

    there are laws against incest for varying reasons, like the increased possibility of producing a handicapped child and the psychological effect it may have on both the couple themselves and any children they may create from the union.

    In a world full of potential partners, it does seem extremely odd to decide to embark on a relationship with one of your parents instead.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    Whose da daddy?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭argosy2006


    I bet the kid will be ginger and have no soul ,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭kincsem


    Can you Adam and Eve it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,408 ✭✭✭Captain_Generic


    kincsem wrote: »
    Can you Adam and Eve it?

    No but you can Banger and Mash it.

    (I am of course talking about abortion)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Their child is going to be class on the banjo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Dodgy having a child all right - they say they'll terminate if defects show, but what if defects don't show until after the point that an abortion can be carried out?
    Otherwise though, meh, so what? What harm are they doing to anyone? No really, it's weird and not easy for some to deal with as it's outside of what they feel is the ideal way, but they can ignore?
    This genetic attraction thing - meh, they're two people who met and became attracted to each other. A switch doesn't just come on deterring them from each other because they're related. They were strangers to each other when they met.
    robwen wrote: »
    sick bastards jail is to good for them they`d enjoy the rape too much in there, they should be just killed & removed from this earth just like the peadophiles
    Hahahahahahahahahaha...
    slarkin123 wrote: »
    I'm not shocked about this, it seems to be becoming a frequent thing. I am shocked that there is a name for it and its recognized as a disease.
    No it isn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 479 ✭✭Ev84


    Dudess wrote: »
    meh, so what? What harm are they doing to anyone? No really, it's weird and not easy for some to deal with as it's outside of what they feel is the ideal way, but they can ignore?

    "Meh, So what?". "What harm are they doing?". You're joking right? WHAT ABOUT THE POOR BABY THAT IS NOT EVEN BORN YET!!!! What kind of way do you think he/she will react the day he/she finds out about how he/she was conceived? Family history? Or the torment he/she will have to endure as a child if anyone in school ever finds out? Normal people in Penny Lawrence's position are supposed to feel anger at their dad who left their mother while she was pregnant, Not lust! And the father is supposed to feel guilt and regret for leaving his daughter without a father for her whole life (I say "whole life" because he is still not a father to her now)... Not impregnate her!

    Even if the baby is born with no physical defects there is still the chance of serious mental problems down the line in trying to cope with such a life. It is completely f**ked up tbh and so is the way you find it so easy to deal with and seem to understand their actions. That poor unborn baby's life is f**ked from day one. pffft "what harm" you say...
    Dudess wrote: »
    A switch doesn't just come on deterring them from each other because they're related.

    It should. And if it doesn't, There is obviously something wrong with you.
    Dudess wrote: »
    They were strangers to each other when they met.

    They were not strangers to each each other, they just never seen each other before. They both knew of each others existence, She tracked him down ffs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Ev84 wrote: »
    "Meh, So what?". "What harm are they doing?". You're joking right? WHAT ABOUT THE POOR BABY THAT IS NOT EVEN BORN YET!!!! What kind of way do you think he/she will react the day he/she finds out about how he/she was conceived? Family history? Or the torment he/she will have to endure as a child if anyone in school ever finds out? Normal people in Penny Lawrence's position are supposed to feel anger at their dad who left their mother while she was pregnant, Not lust! And the father is supposed to feel guilt and regret for leaving his daughter without a father for her whole life (I say "whole life" because he is still not a father to her now)... Not impregnate her!

    Even if the baby is born with no physical defects there is still the chance of serious mental problems down the line in trying to cope with such a life. It is completely f**ked up tbh and so is the way you find it so easy to deal with and seem to understand their actions. That poor unborn baby's life is f**ked from day one. pffft "what harm" you say...
    You must have missed the part where I said I don't agree with them having a baby - after that I meant if there was no baby.
    It should. And if it doesn't, There is obviously something wrong with you.
    Based on? You can't help attraction - their crime is acting on it. It is easy for anyone who hasn't been in the situation to think "Jesus if I met someone and fancied them like mad and then realised they were closely related to me, I'd just suddenly lose attraction to them" but that's not taking into account the complexities of the human condition.
    It's weird, I'm assuming I wouldn't do it, but in the cases of those who don't have children, who are they harming? Why would they go ahead and have such a taboo relationship if they didn't really want to, especially in the face of such objection? Although I agree with someone else: don't see why they felt the need to go public.
    They were not strangers to each each other, they just never seen each other before. They both knew of each others existence, She tracked him down ffs.
    Still strangers in the sense of having never met, and not knowing they would be attracted to each other when they met.
    I'm not championing this, I'm just aware that things aren't always straightforward and I always end up mulling over things that are not the norm and less than ideal, rather than leaping to outraged mode.
    Imprisoning them for incest - what they do in the privacy of their own home... now that would be fucked up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭lifelongnoob


    so is the kid gonna call him dad or his/her brother?

    and his/her mother mam or his/her sister?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,727 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Really need pics of the daughter to make a solid judgment
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/mar/23/sun-ireland


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭diddlybit


    And so? What difference does it make to anyone else's life? None. Chances are the child will be fine as issues only occur if they carry a shared genetic disorder.


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