The Shell to Sea protests

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im all for freedom of opinion and speech , I cant prove everything in the world so I cant say if your religion is right or wrong , I dont know if global warming will be a severe problem in my lifetime, but I know the S2S protesters are WRONG, theres no 2 ways about it, theyre just WRONG , Wrong reasons, WRONG approach , WRONG information.

theyre all a bunch of weirdo hippys and ignorant ill informed locals, some of them just protest because they hate police or love protesting, the whole lot of them should be locked up for the torment theyve caused shell staff and the criminal damage caused to Royal dutch shell's equipment. This pipeline is safe, will create jobs and give a boost to our economy , The only people who have a problem with this are hippys who dont want jobs anyway and a bunch of really ignorant people with a chip on their shoulder

when the S2S campaign started it was about sending a pipeline out to sea because some wackos thought it might be dangerous, since then theyve decided that since nobody was listening that theyd have to crock up something about shell robbing our gas or some other BS.

also maura harrington, the rossport 5 and that willie corduff lad should all be banned from the media - theyre all a bunch of whining ignorant retards who have no clue what theyre on about and just like fueling the anti-shell propoganda machine with made up claims of abuse and phoney hunger strikes

Cartman is known for his comedy gold:D - I'm a big fan of the 10 year-old Jew/Hippy hater too;):P

Birdnuts wrote: »

Cartman is known for his comedy gold:D - I'm a big fan of the 10 year-old Jew/Hippy hater too;):P

He's not the one estimating the value of Corrib at half a trillion euros!!:D

Einhard wrote: »

. It also happens to be an autocratic state, which ignores laws and rights whenever it sees fit.


.

That hasn't stopped the likes of SHELL investing in the places like Nigeria and certain countries in the Middle East.

I also think your a little naive as to how big oil, multinationals etc. work in the real world

Einhard wrote: »

Reneging on the deal would cause massive reputational damage to Ireland Inc. No investor in his right mind is going to pump money into a small country with few resources and a history of breaching its own laws. Would you, if you were the head of a multi-national corporation? I certainly wouldn't.

There not pumping money into this country - this deal has little or no upside to anyone but SHELL as already pointed out in stark terms in this thread


PS: Ireland still has the reputation as the "WildWest" of capitalism which has cost this country dearly - in fact our "reputation" can't fall much further in any case:(

Eric Cartman wrote: »

give ireland some much needed jobs

Great - barely 30 full-time jobs when its built in return for giving away billions of euros of gas. No wonder this country is an economic basketcase:(

mconigol wrote: »

We don't have Russian oil reserves. We have some small deposits in difficult to develop locations. There really isn't that much action to be queued for.

Its about potential - did the Norwegians know the extent of their reserves when they started out???. According to our Dept of Energy there could be up to 500 billion euros waiting to be discovered. Do we just go ahead and sign over huge areas over to Foreign oil companies anyway under similiar terms to the Corrib Gas rip-off

There have been a few informative threads on the politics board about the subject, would be worth doing a search on that forum, plenty around election time.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

30 full time jobs + a f*ck load of contracts with other companies and self employed people ,

what everyone who objects to this doesnt realise is : Ireland doesnt have gas drilling equipment, even if we didnt sell the rights, we wouldnt get the gas either , the only thing we could have done is leave it in the ground or pick another company to drill it who would set up the exact same deal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsale_Head_gas_field

I guess you never heard of Bord Gais doing the same thing years ago:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im all for freedom of opinion and speech , I cant prove everything in the world so I cant say if your religion is right or wrong , I dont know if global warming will be a severe problem in my lifetime, but I know the S2S protesters are WRONG, theres no 2 ways about it, theyre just WRONG , Wrong reasons, WRONG approach , WRONG information.

theyre all a bunch of weirdo hippys and ignorant ill informed locals, some of them just protest because they hate police or love protesting, the whole lot of them should be locked up for the torment theyve caused shell staff and the criminal damage caused to Royal dutch shell's equipment. This pipeline is safe, will create jobs and give a boost to our economy , The only people who have a problem with this are hippys who dont want jobs anyway and a bunch of really ignorant people with a chip on their shoulder

when the S2S campaign started it was about sending a pipeline out to sea because some wackos thought it might be dangerous, since then theyve decided that since nobody was listening that theyd have to crock up something about shell robbing our gas or some other BS.

also maura harrington, the rossport 5 and that willie corduff lad should all be banned from the media - theyre all a bunch of whining ignorant retards who have no clue what theyre on about and just like fueling the anti-shell propoganda machine with made up claims of abuse and phoney hunger strikes

How does buying your own oil boost the economy? If there is 800billion worth of oil there and we use it all, it will cost the economy 800 billion. Thats not an improvement.

Shell also have a policy of not hiring Irish rig workers on any of the rigs around Ireland.


Would filling your car for a fiver not be better than filling it for 80euro, would having enough money to pay off all the bank debts, and still have some left over to run our health service properly. Not be a benefit.

The Norwegian government will make more money out of the Irish oil than the Irish.

All of the below is taken from the poster oilking on thepropertypin.com
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewto...=13259&start=0
It might clarify a few issues for those who are 'on the fence' or don't really understand the issues, though it'll obviously have zero affect on the 'we are giving away 800 squillion gang'.

*************


The deal the Irish State did with Shell is no different than what both ourselves and our neighbours in Holland, Norway and the UK have been doing for years. The only difference is that since the 1970s (Kinsale gas field) this is the first commercial gas discovery on the Irish Continental shelf.
The continental shelf of each country is divided up into blocks which are each given numbers. Oil companies then bid on the rights to drill in a block. The block will be leased to the oil company for a stated number of years and yes they will earn revenue for bringing any hydrocarbons found to market. The state will then tax the revenue in a number of ways but usually this is done by royalties of a fixed percentage of revenue for each BOE (barrel of oil equivalent) produced. The tax rate of the royalties is stated in the terms of conditions set by the government prior to any oil company taking out a lease on a block.

In Ireland we've one of the worst strike rates for finding hydrocarbons of anywhere in the planet. (3% but I need to find the link for this) Here is some useful comparisons with our neighbours in Norway and the UK

Quote:
The Irish offshore industry is repeatedly compared to its Norwegian and UK counterparts. More often than not, this comparison focuses on the fiscal terms offered to companies carrying out exploration and development in these countries. This comparison is wholly inappropriate.

Exploration in Norway commenced at about the same time as in Ireland. Since then the Norwegian industry has drilled 1,200 exploration and appraisal wells. The UK industry has drilled 4,211 exploration and appraisal wells and currently has 350 producing oil and gas fields.

At the same time, Ireland has drilled only 155 exploration and appraisal wells and only has three producing gas fields with the fourth, Corrib, under development.

Norway is also seen as particularly attractive for exploration given the large average size of the fields discovered, approximately three times the size of the average in Ireland. Norway’s production to date plus proven reserves is 114 times greater than Ireland’s. UK production to date and proven reserves is 99 times greater than Ireland’s.

These enormous natural advantages enable Norway and the United Kingdom to impose tough fiscal terms on offshore explorers and make any comparison between terms offered in Ireland and the other two countries entirely inappropriate. The attractiveness of Norway and the United Kingdom, despite their relatively onerous fiscal terms, is emphasised by the number of applicationsfor exploration licences. For instance, the 24th Licensing Round (2006) in the UK attracted 147 applications from 121 companies. A comparable round in Ireland resulted in the award of 4 licences.

The appropriate comparison would be with other countries of relatively low prospectivity, such as France, Spain and Portugal, which have similarly low levels of activity to Ireland.
Norway is the third largest exporter of crude oil in the world and currently has 49 producing oil and gas fields with a further five fields under development. Another 13 fields have ceased production. The UK has over 300 producing oil and gas fields with 18 fields under development. Ireland has only three producing gas fields, one gas field under development and no commercial oil discoveries to date. These stark differences make comparisons between Ireland and the other two countries, and the fiscal terms they impose on exploration companies, entirely inappropriate.
Source: UKOOA, the Petroleum Affairs Division and the Norwegian Petroleum Directorate (Faktaheftet om norsk petroleum verksemd for 2005).


http://www.iooa.ie/securing-the-future-page41390.html


So, if you have lots of oil and gas already discovered on your continental shelf you can impose higher taxes/tariffs on the Oil companies producing oil and gas.
Because of the low success rate on the Irish continental shelf we must be very generous on the low taxes that we would charge so as to attract oil companies to drill in our waters.

It would seem that just as Shell is about to make a return on their massive investment on the Corrib project we have people in this country deciding that they should not have it, almost that we always knew that it was there and our government still decided to "give it away". This is nonsense. Do these people realise the massive cost today for exploring for oil and gas. An average exploration well in deep water such as off the coast of Mayo and Donegal where Shell is drilling is now costing at least $100 million.

I'm all for our government setting up an Irish National oil company to explore for oil and gas off of Ireland but I do not think that the Irish tax payer is willing to stump up the cost of maybe $1 Billion to go on a 10 well drilling programme with a success rate of perhaps 5%. And that cost would only be for drilling the wells. Not for building the offshore platforms, pipelines, onshore refineries. So perhaps double that price again.
How many hospitals, schools and roads are the Irish people willing to forfeit so that we can explore for oil and gas.
It seems we want to go down the path of just confiscating it from the companies who are willing to take the chance of finding it. This is outrageous.

I have no beef with people campaigning on whether Shell are doing a safe and environmentally friendly job of bringing the Corrib gas to shore but nationalising our tiny offshore reserves is economic suicide. Welcome to Communist Ireland.

For the record I work for a major Oil and Gas company but not Shell. The company I work for has no commercial interest in Corrib or any other project on the Irish Continental shelf.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

All of the below is taken from the poster oilking on thepropertypin.com
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewto...=13259&start=0
It might clarify a few issues for those who are 'on the fence' or don't really understand the issues, though it'll obviously have zero affect on the 'we are giving away 800 squillion gang'.

*************


The deal the Irish State did with Shell is no different than what both ourselves and our neighbours in Holland, Norway and the UK have been doing for years. The only difference is that since the 1970s (Kinsale gas field) this is the first commercial gas discovery on the Irish Continental shelf.
The continental shelf of each country is divided up into blocks which are each given numbers. Oil companies then bid on the rights to drill in a block. The block will be leased to the oil company for a stated number of years and yes they will earn revenue for bringing any hydrocarbons found to market. The state will then tax the revenue in a number of ways but usually this is done by royalties of a fixed percentage of revenue for each BOE (barrel of oil equivalent) produced. The tax rate of the royalties is stated in the terms of conditions set by the government prior to any oil company taking out a lease on a block.

In Ireland we've one of the worst strike rates for finding hydrocarbons of anywhere in the planet. (3% but I need to find the link for this) Here is some useful comparisons with our neighbours in Norway and the UK

Quote:
The Irish offshore industry is repeatedly compared to its Norwegian and UK counterparts. More often than not, this comparison focuses on the fiscal terms offered to companies carrying out exploration and development in these countries. This comparison is wholly inappropriate.

Exploration in Norway commenced at about the same time as in Ireland. Since then the Norwegian industry has drilled 1,200 exploration and appraisal wells. The UK industry has drilled 4,211 exploration and appraisal wells and currently has 350 producing oil and gas fields.

At the same time, Ireland has drilled only 155 exploration and appraisal wells and only has three producing gas fields with the fourth, Corrib, under development.

Norway is also seen as particularly attractive for exploration given the large average size of the fields discovered, approximately three times the size of the average in Ireland. Norway’s production to date plus proven reserves is 114 times greater than Ireland’s. UK production to date and proven reserves is 99 times greater than Ireland’s.

These enormous natural advantages enable Norway and the United Kingdom to impose tough fiscal terms on offshore explorers and make any comparison between terms offered in Ireland and the other two countries entirely inappropriate. The attractiveness of Norway and the United Kingdom, despite their relatively onerous fiscal terms, is emphasised by the number of applicationsfor exploration licences. For instance, the 24th Licensing Round (2006) in the UK attracted 147 applications from 121 companies. A comparable round in Ireland resulted in the award of 4 licences.

The appropriate comparison would be with other countries of relatively low prospectivity, such as France, Spain and Portugal, which have similarly low levels of activity to Ireland.
Norway is the third largest exporter of crude oil in the world and currently has 49 producing oil and gas fields with a further five fields under development. Another 13 fields have ceased production. The UK has over 300 producing oil and gas fields with 18 fields under development. Ireland has only three producing gas fields, one gas field under development and no commercial oil discoveries to date. These stark differences make comparisons between Ireland and the other two countries, and the fiscal terms they impose on exploration companies, entirely inappropriate.
Source: UKOOA, the Petroleum Affairs Division and the Norwegian Petroleum Directorate (Faktaheftet om norsk petroleum verksemd for 2005).


http://www.iooa.ie/securing-the-future-page41390.html


So, if you have lots of oil and gas already discovered on your continental shelf you can impose higher taxes/tariffs on the Oil companies producing oil and gas.
Because of the low success rate on the Irish continental shelf we must be very generous on the low taxes that we would charge so as to attract oil companies to drill in our waters.

It would seem that just as Shell is about to make a return on their massive investment on the Corrib project we have people in this country deciding that they should not have it, almost that we always knew that it was there and our government still decided to "give it away". This is nonsense. Do these people realise the massive cost today for exploring for oil and gas. An average exploration well in deep water such as off the coast of Mayo and Donegal where Shell is drilling is now costing at least $100 million.

I'm all for our government setting up an Irish National oil company to explore for oil and gas off of Ireland but I do not think that the Irish tax payer is willing to stump up the cost of maybe $1 Billion to go on a 10 well drilling programme with a success rate of perhaps 5%. And that cost would only be for drilling the wells. Not for building the offshore platforms, pipelines, onshore refineries. So perhaps double that price again.
How many hospitals, schools and roads are the Irish people willing to forfeit so that we can explore for oil and gas.
It seems we want to go down the path of just confiscating it from the companies who are willing to take the chance of finding it. This is outrageous.

I have no beef with people campaigning on whether Shell are doing a safe and environmentally friendly job of bringing the Corrib gas to shore but nationalising our tiny offshore reserves is economic suicide. Welcome to Communist Ireland.

For the record I work for a major Oil and Gas company but not Shell. The company I work for has no commercial interest in Corrib or any other project on the Irish Continental shelf.

Thank you.

The only problem with your outline of the facts, is that those who oppose the Corrib gas development will just ignore them.

Einhard wrote: »

Thank you.

The only problem with your outline of the facts, is that those who oppose the Corrib gas development will just ignore them.

So the arguement now for signing away all our rights to the Corrib gas and other potential finds in the future is that Ireland is such a poor prospect for oil/gas - that begs the question as to what is the point in hoisting this industry if the exchequer will only ever get FA from it while the permanent employment prospects for Irish citizens is equally poor.

Can't SHELL apologists at least be honest and say this whole charade is about simply boosting the profits of a foreign multinational - nothing else!!!

Good post on it here too:
boards.ie - View Single Post - I have an idea that could net us 14 Billion euro.

Nevermind_ wrote: »

Its amazing how quiet a thread goes when someone posts something like the above last post.

Best explanation I've seen anywhere on this issue.
Where are the shell to sea crowd now?:cool:

Birdnuts wrote: »

So the arguement now for signing away all our rights to the Corrib gas and other potential finds in the future is that Ireland is such a poor prospect for oil/gas - that begs the question as to what is the point in hoisting this industry if the exchequer will only ever get FA from it while the permanent employment prospects for Irish citizens is equally poor.

Can't SHELL apologists at least be honest and say this whole charade is about simply boosting the profits of a foreign multinational - nothing else!!!

You obviously don't understand how the global oil and gas sector works or even basic economics for that matter.

Also I don't understand this repeated argument about permanent employment. This is not the only type of employment the country needs. What about all the temporary jobs provided by short term projects such as road building, metro, luas and events such as music festivals, tour de france, special olympics etc....

I do contract work and rely on temporary projects to provide MY permanent employment. There is lots of full time employment provided by "temporary" work e.g. plumbers, builders, electricians, engineers...the list is endless....