From today I can call myself an atheist

dead one wrote: »

That's why i put "'" a mark in it. The quote has nothing to do with christianity. It is unversal truth. We must accept it ,whether it is from jews site or Christian site or atheist site.

I remember something . Why you don't respond to its contents:D

Have a quick look at where religions have taken humanity in the past... if you just go by the level of suffering and the number of resulting deaths, they outshine any ideology that ever took evolution on board.

But don't let that deter you. Killing Jews is only bad if the Nazis do it, if people do it out of religious faith it's perfectly ok.

robindch wrote: »

Bit too far? How?

There are billions of complex things that exist in this world. I believe that yes, some have evolved naturally, but to say that everything in the world has evolved basically "just by chance" over billions of years is beyond belief in my opinion.:)

I'm not ignoring your points...I was pointing out that if you rely on your own reasoning to determine the origins of the universe and answer the big questions of this world, then you will always come up short.
I don't need to demonstrate that there is a God, because believing in God isn't a scientific experiment that requires a set of results.
I choose to believe without seeing....you may call that stupid, I call it faith and hope.

oldrnwisr wrote: »

By all means, feel free to ignore all of my points. Silly me, I thought this was a discussion board.

Reliance on human reasoning eh? Have you demonstrated that there is a God whose reasoning we can rely on?

Comments about fail are a symptom of your own weak arguments btw.

robindch wrote: »

You are aware that evolution does not happen "by chance", aren't you?

Ok, if you insist, I will rephrase....

To say that everything in the world has evolved basically "just by chance" over billions of years is beyond belief in my opinion.

Well, I think I'll bow out of this discussion now.
I've said really all I have to say and I feel that my points have been made. Whether people agree with them or not is up to them.

Have a nice day

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ugh, if you're not contradicting yourself then explain to me how accepting evolution is a result of not believing in a god when you admit yourself that believers also accept evolution.

Ok, my last comment cos I really should be working now :rolleyes:

Accepting evolution as the basis for which all life has come about is a result of not believing in God. (because this rules out any of god's involvement)

You can accept some parts of evolution(all be-it orchestrated by God) and still believe in God though (because this does not rule out God's involvement)

Hope I've made it clearer.

boatbuilder wrote: »

I'm not ignoring your points...I was pointing out that if you rely on your own reasoning to determine the origins of the universe and answer the big questions of this world, then you will always come up short.

boatbuilder wrote: »

I don't need to demonstrate that there is a God, because believing in God isn't a scientific experiment that requires a set of results.
I choose to believe without seeing....you may call that stupid, I call it faith and hope.

Who mentioned the origins of the universe?

I don't rely on my own reasoning. I rely on the evidence which is demonstrable.

boatbuilder wrote: »

I don't need to demonstrate that there is a God, because believing in God isn't a scientific experiment that requires a set of results.

Well, actually you do, or at least should. You made the implicit assertion here that God's supernatural reasoning is somehow superior. You have presupposed the existence of God in that argument. So before you can challenge the weakness of human reasoning you need to demonstrate that there is a God in order to be able to demonstrate any superior reasoning.

boatbuilder wrote: »

I choose to believe without seeing....you may call that stupid, I call it faith and hope.

Fair enough. Faith is not a path to truth, though. It's just a means of sticking your head in the sand.

boatbuilder wrote: »

There are billions of complex things that exist in this world. I believe that yes, some have evolved naturally, but to say that everything in the world has evolved basically "just by chance" over billions of years is beyond belief in my opinion.

boatbuilder wrote: »

No, I said that certain elements of evolution are probably true, but not to the point of explaining the origins of the universe. I can't see the contradiction.

You really don't understand evolution at all, do you?

Galvasean wrote: »

That's what I do not get about your kind of position. The idea that everything in the universe came about through natural means seems 'beyond belief', but the idea that a hyper-powerful super being who exists beyond the realms of physics is behind it all... that isn't beyond belief?

ok my last last comment before my boss gets mad at me!:o

When I look at the utterly amazing complexities of life, I just can't believe that it completely happened naturally (i.e that no-one orchestrated it)
Even if you go back to explain how the first atoms came into existence...you get to a point where even an atheist has to say "well, it was just there". I would argue that "God was just there".
There are loads of unanswered questions, like "what is a thought physically made of?" Have you ever seen a thought with your eyes? You get the idea......infinite unanswered questions that humans will never be able to understand. Lots of things exist that are beyond the realm o our understanding and physics

boatbuilder wrote: »

splitting hairs....

More like disentangling braids.

boatbuilder wrote: »

Ok, if you insist, I will rephrase....

To say that everything in the world has evolved basically "just by chance" over billions of years is beyond belief in my opinion.

Do you think that scientists are suggesting that the mechanism by which everything in the world evolved is based on chance?

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

More like disentangling braids.

Do you think that scientists are suggesting that the mechanism by which everything in the world evolved is based on chance?

Chance, biological changes over time, whatever, same difference.

boatbuilder wrote: »

Chance, biological changes over time, whatever, same difference.

Same difference? What does that even mean?

I'll ask again - do you believe that scientists are suggesting that biological changes over time come about as a result of a chance process?

boatbuilder wrote: »

Well if its on wikipedia, it must be true

Its called faith.

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Same difference? What does that even mean?

I'll ask again - do you believe that scientists are suggesting that biological changes over time come about as a result of a chance process?

Probably as a result of change of environment, need to adapt for survival, something along those lines. But not to thepoint of saying that it just happens of its own accord without God's orchestration