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Border Gáis to seek price increase approval, despite 115,000 customers in arrears????

  • 04-05-2011 12:02PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭


    Gonna be a lot of cold people in the winter months by the looks of this!

    http://www.examiner.ie/text/ireland/kfojmheycwau/



    OVER 115,000 Bord Gáis customers are two months in arrears on their bill —treble the number who were having trouble meeting payments this time last year.

    The news emerged as Bord Gáis also revealed it will almost certainly have to seek a gas price increase later this year.

    Figures obtained by the Irish Examiner show 11.5% of Bord Gáis bills, which include both gas and electricity, have not been paid for more than 60 days.

    The company installed 1,400 pay-as-you-go meters in houses last month to help people who were having trouble paying. This time last year, the firm was installing 40 meters a month, which are supplied free.

    The organisation’s chief executive, John Mullins, said while bills would usually be higher after the winter months, this year debt issues were particularly prevalent.

    However, Mr Mullins said the decision to cut off supply would remain a last resort and that customers in difficulty are offered plans to spread repayments over an 18-month period or are offered the pre-paid meters to regulate usage.

    Mr Mullins said the company was trying hard to limit disconnections and was asking customers in difficulty to contact them as soon as possible to work out a payment plan. He revealed that Bord Gáis has 90 people employed to deal with customer debt issues, up from 12 in 2007.

    Turning to the extent of price increases, Mr Mullins pointed out that gas prices on the wholesale market had doubled in the last year and that the company would have to seek a price increase as a result. He said the company had made no decision yet on the level of that increase or when exactly it would be sought. He admitted, however, that it would most likely be implemented in October.

    Reacting to the news, the director of moneycoach.ie, Frank Conway, said Ireland was in the "grip of a severe income crisis".

    "People all over Ireland are effectively crippled by negative income and are chronically short of money to pay their bills.

    "Additionally, the issue of repayment capacity is likely to continue to deteriorate for some time as recent developments take their toll, including a spate of rising costs, including petrol, mortgages and insurance costs, which have all played a significant role in price inflation," he said.

    A record 9,500 people contacted the Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS) in the first three months of this year, up nearly 3,000 on the end of 2010, with the most pressing problems being meeting a personal loan repayment or a utility bill.

    Bord Gáis is due to announce its annual results for 2010 tomorrow.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    That's gas... I can see that idea going up in flames anyway..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    This has no bearing i imagine on the whole sale price of gas which is why they are asking for an increase.

    That and quite possibly the fact that its provisions for bad debt.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    They up their prices? Many will just further switch providers and they lose out.
    Serve them right. We're far over priced as it is!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    People are choosing to pay the mortgage first, the rest piles up, even though they may be 100k in neg equity by now.

    All a bit mad. Country is gonna have to bring in a bankruptcy scheme or there's gonna be a whole lot of kids sleeping in celtic tiger houses with no lights, no heat and no hope.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    i finally got my final bills off them yesterday 2 months after i had the gas and electricity disconnected. im sure if i was in arrears they would be quick to get onto me


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,432 ✭✭✭df1985


    realistically how long would it take for your electric/phone/tv to be cut off, i know they send letters and texts etc but how long would it be till they actually do it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    themadchef wrote: »
    People are choosing to pay the mortgage first, the rest piles up, even though they may be 100k in neg equity by now..

    Negative equity has no bearing whatsoever to paying your bills.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    df1985 wrote: »
    realistically how long would it take for your electric/phone/tv to be cut off, i know they send letters and texts etc but how long would it be till they actually do it?

    Thankfully i don't know the answer to this, as its never been an issue for me, but what i CAN tell you, AES (bin company) didn't empty my bin last week, because i wad 16 feckin euro in arrears!
    The ****es!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    prinz wrote: »
    Negative equity has no bearing whatsoever to paying your bills.

    Really? wow, glad you cleared that up for me :rolleyes:

    What im saying is, people are paying huge mortgages on houses that are worth half of what they paid for them (in some cases). By paying this huge mortgage there is no money left for the bills, like the gas bill, the electricity bill.

    We have to investigate a bankruptcy scheme for these people. .. and before you ask ,no i dont have a mortgage that's in negative equity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    themadchef wrote: »
    Really? wow, glad you cleared that up for me :rolleyes: What im saying is, people are paying huge mortgages on houses that are worth half of what they paid for them (in some cases). By paying this huge mortgage there is no money left for the bills, like the gas bill, the electricity bill..

    ..and again the worth of the houses is completely irrelevant. :confused: If people took on a mortgage they can't afford it's really their problem. If the house had doubled in value they'd still be paying the mortgage, would they be able to pay the gas bill then?
    themadchef wrote: »
    We have to investigate a bankruptcy scheme for these people....

    The only possible scheme for something like this is a debt deferral scheme or repossession.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ...Or they could just drop the price?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Biggins wrote: »
    ...Or they could just drop the price?

    Well they could just do that as long as it's passed on to all customers, but we were discussing a bankruptcy scheme which only benefits some :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    prinz wrote: »
    ..and again the worth of the houses is completely irrelevant. :confused:.

    Not true in the slightest.

    If the house prices hadint fallen so drastically, people wouldint be trapped in a situation where they cannot sell. Or dont you get that. TRAPPED. They cant sell, cant move, cant walk away, cant run away. Trapped. Paying a mortgage that was once sustainable, which now is not.

    There is no way out for many, so many will go cold, or hungry to keep the bank fed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    themadchef wrote: »
    Paying a mortgage that was once sustainable, which now is not..

    There's the real issue. If the house doubled in value would paying the mortgage still be sustainable? People are TRAPPED, TRAPPED, because they bought ridiculously overvalued property in a bubble. Paying the huge mortgage doesn't depend on the value of the property falling.. so if they've no money left for bills now, it's their own problem. You can't blame the lack of money for bills on negative equity. You either have the cash or you don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Biggins wrote: »
    ...Or they could just drop the price?

    They're not a charity.

    No sure what people are so up in arms about. It sucks, but BG are there to make a profit, not subsidise householders. Not much they can do about rising gas and oil prices around the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭AndyGarcia


    Biggins wrote: »
    They up their prices? Many will just further switch providers and they lose out.
    Serve them right. We're far over priced as it is!
    What % profit do they make on each unit?
    Biggins wrote: »
    ...Or they could just drop the price?
    Sure everyone can drop their prices but how do you know if they are making profit at it? If they dropped their prices and ran at a loss can you imagine how many people would be whinging that a semi state is running at a loss and should up their prices.


    To be honest I hate paying my gas/electricity bills in winter cause they are so high but thats life if i use it thats my choice, BG are not forcing me to run gas or electricity its my choice.

    They are a business and not there to make sure everyone is warm. My heart goes out to people in neg equity, but BG cant be responsible for this. If events around the world have a massive impact on oil and gas why should BG drop their prices when its now costing them more to produce the stuff? You dont see people filling up their cars and saying sorry Mr Esso im in neg equity so you can sing for your money.

    I also think if they said tomorrow there will be no more disconnections, people would never pay their bills.

    From a business point of view i can fully understand prices going up, that's life, but for people who think ill just change to Airtricity they disconnect a hell of a lot quicker that BG AND their profits go back to the UK which makes it even worse.

    I cant understand how people can saying prices are too high when they have no idea how much profit they are making after over heads are paid. I havent got a link but i read somewhere a while back that BG lost over €20 million in bad debts last year. What company can justify dropping prices after losing this much and the price of producing the stuff has soared?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    AndyGarcia wrote: »
    What % profit do they make on each unit?

    Sure everyone can drop their prices but how do you know if they are making profit at it?

    They are making a hell of a profit: http://www.moneyguideireland.com/bord-gais-or-flogas-who-is-the-cheapest-for-gas.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭OneArt


    Bord Gais is a laugh. Moved in September and we were required to pay a desposit of 300 euro or thereabouts, even though we'd been told if we went by direct debit we wouldn't have to. Did direct debit but nope, still got letters demanding the deposit. Since we hadn't paid the deposit, the gas wasn't there, so we couldn't use it. Bit of a chilly winter but grand all the same, haven't used any gas whatsoever.

    But we still get letters threatening to cut off our gas. Er yeah... It wasn't there in the first place.

    Numbskulls.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭AndyGarcia


    Biggins wrote: »

    Oh silly me, yes that guide tells me exactly what profit they are making and how much they lost.

    You cant compare Flogas and ESB becuase they are just piggy backing BG and buying from the pool AFTER it's been purchased from Europe and delivered.

    It's like the electricity market. In the business division ESB always staed that the regulator set their prices and thats why they were so high. ESB are now fully de-regulated for over a month and they have yet to do anything on their prices. What they did do was power their unit rate by a fraction but never botehred to tell their customer that they standing charge has gone up over 650%


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    They're building a big new fancy place near charlestown in finglas.

    It must be running over budget:(


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    AndyGarcia wrote: »
    Oh silly me, yes that guide tells me exactly what profit they are making and how much they lost.
    You (deliberately?) missed the point.
    The fact is that they have a hell of a major price gap.
    Now they can use many excuses such as staff, equipment etc but its boils down to that if they are making such a loss due to those factors, they are clearly not running their business right then.

    End of they day, they are the dearest in the country and as far as I know the sale of gas is cut-throat, each wholesale provider trying to beat the other in cheapness - so where is Bord Gais getting their and why at such expensive prices if they try and claim that they are passing those prices on to the consumer?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    prinz wrote: »
    There's the real issue. If the house doubled in value would paying the mortgage still be sustainable? People are TRAPPED, TRAPPED, because they bought ridiculously overvalued property in a bubble. Paying the huge mortgage doesn't depend on the value of the property falling.. so if they've no money left for bills now, it's their own problem. You can't blame the lack of money for bills on negative equity. You either have the cash or you don't.

    If I bought a house which wasnt overpriced on an affordable mortgage and then lost my job the mortgage would be unaffordable independant of the initial evaulation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    Biggins wrote: »
    You (deliberately?) missed the point.
    The fact is that they have a hell of a major price gap.
    Now they can use many excuses such as staff, equipment etc but its boils down to that if they are making such a loss due to those factors, they are clearly not running their business right then.

    End of they day, they are the dearest in the country and as far as I know the sale of gas is cut-throat, each wholesale provider trying to beat the other in cheapness - so where is Bord Gais getting their and why at such expensive prices if they try and claim that they are passing those prices on to the consumer?

    It's not really that simple biggins ,bord gais have to install new lines for people regardless of who the people decide to get their gas from.
    It's fairly expensive maintaining gas infrastructure and they monitor for leaks daily.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    It's not really that simple biggins ,bord gais have to install new lines for people regardless of who the people decide to get their gas from.
    It's fairly expensive maintaining gas infrastructure and they monitor for leaks daily.
    I know and accept that, including other factors which can be thrown in too - but they are a buiness at the end of the day and if they aren't able to offer competitive prices, they should get out of the business.
    If they keep the current hight rate of prices up - and increasing them more soon - they might be out of business sooner than they even think.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    Biggins wrote: »
    I know and accept that, including other factors which can be thrown in too - but they are a buiness at the end of the day and if they aren't able to offer competitive prices, they should get out of the business.
    If they keep the current hight rate of prices up - and increasing them more soon - they might be out of business sooner than they even think.

    I don't work for them or anything ,I install boilers etc is all.
    Feel sorry for some who have such high bills:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭AndyGarcia


    Biggins wrote: »
    I know and accept that, including other factors which can be thrown in too - but they are a buiness at the end of the day and if they aren't able to offer competitive prices, they should get out of the business.
    If they keep the current hight rate of prices up - and increasing them more soon - they might be out of business sooner than they even think.

    But how can they reduce rates when gas is going up everywhere else. Due to the snow and ice in December the UK had an increase of around 17% how can BG drops rates when other countries are putting rates up? Naturally if there is a huge demand for something the price keeps going up. Maybe im wrong but i cant thing of anything thats in demand being reduced


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    ...Feel sorry for some who have such high bills :(

    As do I - absolutely.
    Last winter was at times particularly cold and I suspect many were left with the choice of near freeze to death or face said massive bills.
    Heck of a position to be in. :(


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