Eddie Hobbs goes over the edge

ArtSmart · 10-05-2011 10:33AM #1

lunatic over reaction from Hobbs on the policy of using a % of private pension to fund the jobs initiative on Morning Ireland.

utter shiite stirring

lost all respect for the man.

he'll be reiterating on rte tonight. available on podcast later.

the groutch · 10-05-2011 10:35AM

never had any respect for him

HellFireClub · 10-05-2011 10:50AM

I'm no fan but he has a point, this is a big lurch in the direction of capital controls along the lines of what happened in Argentina when the government stopped people taking out their deposits, basically switched off the ATM machines...

Would you tolerate the government coming out in the morning and saying that they were taking 2% of whatever your current or savings account deposit value might be at close of business today???

I doubt it, so why would you tolerate the government taking 2% of your pension fund???

Riskymove · 10-05-2011 10:56AM

HellFireClub wrote: »

Would you tolerate the government coming out in the morning and saying that they were taking 2% of whatever your current or savings account deposit value might be at close of business today???

I doubt it, so why would you tolerate the government taking 2% of your pension fund???

I have heard suggestions that they are going to do this levy instead of getting rid of tax relief on pensions, I think the levy would be better than ending relief, though obviously people would rather they lost nothing

I also think that people pay that and more in relation to management fees on pension funds despite, in some cases, poor service

the Government has contributed to the funds in pensions through tax relief so its quite different than deposit savings really

RichardAnd · 10-05-2011 10:59AM

Levys on savings are of the same brew as property tax. Governments helping themselves to the weath of private citizens, typical socialist nonsense.

touts · 10-05-2011 11:03AM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm no fan but he has a point, this is a big lurch in the direction of capital controls along the lines of what happened in Argentina when the government stopped people taking out their deposits, basically switched off the ATM machines...

Would you tolerate the government coming out in the morning and saying that they were taking 2% of whatever your current or savings account deposit value might be at close of business today???

I doubt it, so why would you tolerate the government taking 2% of your pension fund???

With a tax on pension funds to be announced today and a tax on the paper value of your home on the way I'd say a tax on deposits is almost certain in the next couple of budgets. The country is broke and essential services like Alan Dukes' new Merc don't come cheap you know.

Time to explore the possibilities of moving money to a UK bank account.

Frank Black · 10-05-2011 11:03AM

Riskymove wrote: »

the Government has contributed to the funds in pensions through tax relief so its quite different than deposit savings really

The Goverenment haven't contributed to our pension funds - they just haven't fully taxed our contributions.
At the end of the day it's a private citizens money which is subject to the risks of the market - unlike public sevant pensions.

In principle, it's not much different than dipping into our savings accounts.

spank_inferno · 10-05-2011 11:07AM

RichardAnd wrote: »

Levys on savings are of the same brew as property tax. Governments helping themselves to the weath of private citizens, typical socialist nonsense.

Worse still...
Governments helping themselves to the wealth of private citizens to just hand over to other private citizens who are too important to have to pay for their mistakes
(except this time their tarting this theft up as a "jobs initiative")

YouBuyLocal · 10-05-2011 12:09PM

He must have some great connections in the media. How is he still getting air-time, he has been shown to be a spoofer. I remember him saying on RTE that borrowing is like "taking money from a time when have lots [in the "future"] and bringing it back to when you have only a little". Never mind that a 30-year mortgage means you pay twice for your house, in the interest & in the principle. He was actively and visibly blowing up the bubble with every bit of lung power he had, and RTE still put him on air!?! Arse-holes:/

ArtSmart · 10-05-2011 12:11PM

there's seems to be a misunderstanding of the concept of theft.

let me try to explain it a bit.

theft is an action against a person or legal equivalent (eg corporation)
resulting in a loss for the victim (person stolen from) and a gain for the thief (the person who takes the item(s)

theft is not the taking of an item(s) with the intention of enriching or otherwise benefiting the 'victim', at the expense of the thief's time and effort. (-an example of this is Tax. )

hope that helps, as it is a tricky concept.

COYW · 10-05-2011 12:16PM

black francis wrote: »

The Goverenment haven't contributed to our pension funds - they just haven't fully taxed our contributions.
At the end of the day it's a private citizens money which is subject to the risks of the market - unlike public sevant pensions.

In principle, it's not much different than dipping into our savings accounts.

There is very little difference for the private sector worker and I think that they will be dipping into our savings very soon.

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 12:17PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

Levys on savings are of the same brew as property tax. Governments helping themselves to the weath of private citizens, typical socialist nonsense.

Typical middle Ireland nonsense response.

Property tax is coming sooner or later, just like all those other "socialist" countries - UK or the USA:cool:

As for the levy, no doubt you have better solutions for the state to raise capital....

black francis wrote: »

The Goverenment haven't contributed to our pension funds - they just haven't fully taxed our contributions.

Tax reliefs are contributions to your pension funds, your doublespeak may make you feel the victim here but the Government has subsidised your pension, deal with it.

steve9859 · 10-05-2011 12:21PM

EH is absolutely right. This isn't a levy that I pay out of my income. It is a raid , a theft, of my stuff. The government is crossing a line and I hope they get taken to court by my pension trustee.

I also like his suggestion that if this goes through private sector workers should stop pension payments and that we should adopt a public sector worker instead!!

Frank Black · 10-05-2011 12:28PM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Tax reliefs are contributions to your pension funds, your doublespeak may make you feel the victim here but the Government has subsidised your pension, deal with it.

Nope, they've encouraged people to contribute towards the cost of thier own pension by offering a reduced tax take on the contributed portion.

Once that money goes into a pension fund it is (or should be) your own money.

Now the goverenment have decided it's a good idea to raid the pension funds of private sectar workers - which to my mind in unequitable and possibly illegal.

Seems to me your the one engaged in doublespeak - deal with it.

10-05-2011 12:30PM

Private pensions are in enough hassle as it is and they want to levy them further? Aren't we heading for an inverted population pyramid as it is? How short-sighted!

Tora Bora · 10-05-2011 12:34PM

ArtSmart wrote: »

there's seems to be a misunderstanding of the concept of theft.

let me try to explain it a bit.

theft is an action against a person or legal equivalent (eg corporation)
resulting in a loss for the victim (person stolen from) and a gain for the thief (the person who takes the item(s)

theft is not the taking of an item(s) with the intention of enriching or otherwise benefiting the 'victim', at the expense of the thief's time and effort. (-an example of this is Tax. )

hope that helps, as it is a tricky concept.

Let me get this straight.

Fingers Fingelton, can pay himself a zillion euro pension, run the company in to the ground, walk away and give the two fingers to the government and the tax payer.

Joe / Josephine Soap, saves away his / her few euros over a long time in order to build up an asset for retirement, so he /she might not be a total burden on the taxpayer.

In this dark economic hour for the country, the government is forced to bring in tough new unpalatable revenue raising measures to try to fund some job cration measures.

They look in the direction of Fingers, (and all his ilk .... Sheedy, FitzPatrick, Drumm, Goggin, etc, etc,) and they say .......... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, cant to anything drastic with these guys.

Then they look at Joe and Josephine, and say to themselves, "right ... lets raid their piggy banks.

Isn't it reassuring to know, that we have replaced a bunch of dickheads in the Dail, with a bunch of clowns.

I voted for the clowns.

Think the dickheads less bad somehow.

paddy0090 · 10-05-2011 12:34PM

As for the levy, no doubt you have better solutions for the state to raise capital....

Capital for what....a daft PR stunt thats about as useful as tits on a boar. Who knows, maybe a new employment agency with designs on travelling to another dimension. It's gonna be pork and EH knows it.

I won't lose anything until I start a pension unless I can get a job in Public sector

EH has always been a bit over the edge, probably sees himself as the batman of personal finance.

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 12:35PM

black francis wrote: »

Nope, they've encouraged people to contribute towards the cost of thier own pension by offering a reduced tax take on the contributed portion.

Yes indeed, they're encouraging people to take out pension plans by knocking off a few % points of tax money, that's a public subsidy.

black francis wrote: »

Once that money goes into a pension fund it is (or should be) your own money.

Now the goverenment have decided it's a good idea to raid the pension funds of private sectar workers - which to my mind in unequitable and possibly illegal.

No it's not. Using your logic the DIRT we pay, the Insurance levy we pay and the credit card stamp duty we pay is unequitable and possibly illegal. It isn't. They're taxes on financial products, just as this one is.

black francis wrote: »

Seems to me your the one engaged in doublespeak - deal with it.

Fraid not, just shattering your illusion that you aren't being subsidised by the state with regards to your private pension - you are.

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 12:40PM

paddy0090 wrote: »

Capital for what....a daft PR stunt thats about as useful as tits on a boar. Who knows, maybe a new employment agency with designs on travelling to another dimension. It's gonna be pork and EH knows it.

Well like it or not, the state is still signed up to an austerity programme and is going to try and raise capital through any avenue possible. What i'm enjoying is the much whinging on here and on politics.ie from FG supporters and voters about this particular topic.

Things like this happen when everyone has to share the pain.

Frank Black · 10-05-2011 12:45PM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Yes indeed, they're encouraging people to take out pension plans by knocking off a few % points of tax money, that's a public subsidy..

Okaaay - by that logic every cent you make in salary is actually a public subsidy because it hasn't been taxed at 100%.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

No it's not. Using your logic the DIRT we pay, the Insurance levy we pay and the credit card stamp duty we pay is unequitable and possibly illegal. It isn't. They're taxes on financial products, just as this one is. .

I can see you have trouble with relativly simple concepts so let me explain how it is inquitable.

None of those items you mention penalises private sector workers over those in public sector - the pension levy does - thus inequitable.

Riskymove · 10-05-2011 12:46PM

black francis wrote: »

The Goverenment haven't contributed to our pension funds - they just haven't fully taxed our contributions.

you reduced your tax bill and therefore saved money

this enabled people to put more away than they might have

btw many public servants have a pension fund so they too would be hit

Cookie_Monster · 10-05-2011 12:47PM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Yes indeed, they're encouraging people to take out pension plans by knocking off a few % points of tax money, that's a public subsidy.

it's not that simple as it's the state forgoing current revenue to prevent higher future costs also.
All this stupid levy is going to achieve is very small short term gains in revenue set against massive increase in pension costs down the road as more and more people contribute less tot heir pensions, with declining tax relief and this pension tax too it makes less and less sense to invest in a private pension so people will end up relying on a public one.

Riskymove · 10-05-2011 12:51PM

black francis wrote: »

Okaaay - by that logic every cent you make in salary is actually a public subsidy because it hasn't been taxed at 100%.

no it isn't (by that logic)

You are saying that pension contributions are taxed, they are not

tax relief is given for pension contributions, i.e. you reduce your PAYE by an amount based on what you are putting into the pension, therefore the Government is subsidising your contributions

it is about subsidies, not about tax

I can see you have trouble with relativly simple concepts so let me explain how it is inquitable.
None of those items you mention penalises private sector workers over those in public sector - the pension levy does - thus inequitable.

as I mentioned, many Public sector workers have a pension fund

in adddition they now pay an additional levy towards the pension and a levy owhen they are actually getting the pension

and both are a lot more than 1%

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 12:53PM

black francis wrote: »

Okaaay - by that logic every cent you make in salary is actually a public subsidy because it hasn't been taxed at 100%.

Not really. When the government offers tax relief to you to incentivise you taking out a private pension they are offering a financial inducement - a subsidy - to entice you to do so.

Why are you having such difficulty understanding such a basic premise?

black francis wrote: »

I can see you have trouble with relativly simple concepts so let me explain how it is inquitable.

Say what?

black francis wrote: »

None of those items you mention penalises private sector workers over those in public sector - the pension levy does - thus inequitable.

Not interested in a public v private sector debate, just pointing out the glaring hole in your argument that the state hasn't subsidised you to take out a pension plan, it has.

Ans as we're here and as mentioned by Riskymove, i would wager many public sector workers will also be affected by this policy.

Riskymove · 10-05-2011 12:53PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

All this stupid levy is going to achieve is very small shirt term gains in revenue set against massive increase in pension costs down the road as more and more people contribute less tot heir pensions, with declining tax relief and this pension tax too it makes less and less sense to invest in a private pension so people will end up relying on a public one.

see my earlier post about the levy supposedly being introduced instead of doing away with the tax relief...in those circumstances I think it makes sense

as said earlier people pay 1% or more in management fees without reducing their contributions

I think the tax relief is the key there, that is what will make people reduce contributions, not this levy

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 12:56PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it's not that simple as it's the state forgoing current revenue to prevent higher future costs also.
All this stupid levy is going to achieve is very small shirt term gains in revenue set against massive increase in pension costs down the road as more and more people contribute less tot heir pensions, with declining tax relief and this pension tax too it makes less and less sense to invest in a private pension so people will end up relying on a public one.

Hard to disagree with this but the state is facing a pensions funding crisis down the line anyway.

Laminations · 10-05-2011 12:57PM

Everyone has to contribute....apart from those who, using tax reliefs, squirrelled away money. It's 0.5%, it won't reduce anyone to penury. The younger generation have been forced to take more of the pain than those who have accumulated wealth with the aid of government subsidies. AFAIK this will apply to the Fingletons of Ireland as well as the Joes and Josephines?

RichardAnd · 10-05-2011 01:01PM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Typical middle Ireland nonsense response.

Property tax is coming sooner or later, just like all those other "socialist" countries - UK or the USA:cool:

As for the levy, no doubt you have better solutions for the state to raise capital....

It's not nonsence. Simply because other countries enfore property does not change the fact that it is wrong.

And no, I don't have better solutions for the state to raise capital but I have a way of circumventing the problem; stop wasting billions each year on crap. If that happened, the issues goes away.

paddy0090 · 10-05-2011 01:02PM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Well like it or not, the state is still signed up to an austerity programme and is going to try and raise capital through any avenue possible. What i'm enjoying is the much whinging on here and on politics.ie from FG supporters and voters about this particular topic.

Things like this happen when everyone has to share the pain.

Is this actually part of the austerity programme or is it the jobs budget? My understanding was the latter. In which case I think its BS

Yitzhak Rabin · 10-05-2011 01:03PM

How Eddie Hobbs is an economic commentator is beyond me. RTÉ should not be squandering our money getting him to spout his nonsense on TV.

This is what he was advising people to do in 2006. It is really breathtaking to watch. I feel sorry for the people who were taken in by this charlatan and his property companies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riFSbr-TgTg

He was on the radio this morning saying that its not economically possible for gold to enter into a bubble like property, and there hasn't been a lot of people buying gold in the last few years, and now is the right time to get in on gold. :rolleyes:

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 01:07PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

It's not nonsence. Simply because other countries enfore property does not change the fact that it is wrong.

Sure it is.....

RichardAnd wrote: »

And no, I don't have better solutions for the state to raise capital but I have a way of circumventing the problem; stop wasting billions each year on crap. If that happened, the issues goes away.

So you don't have solutions, you just don't want any policies implemented which affect you?

No doubt "the wasted billions each year on crap" are on things which don't materially effect you in anyway...

Eddie Hobbs goes over the edge

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