Looking for a super economical car, any advice?

Dagon · 30-04-2011 11:10AM #1

I've been traveling a bit, and in my absence the fuel prices have gone through the roof! Taxing, insuring and most of all paying petrol for my lovely 2L Celica is going to cost me a bomb, so...

I'm in the market for a diesel car for around 2000 to 3000 euros. I don't care much about power anymore - had an MR2 and a few Celicas, so I've had my fun. To keep the tax low I'm hoping to get something with a small engine too, maybe between 1.3 to 1.6. I have a preference for Japanese built cars, but am willing to go for something European if it is high in reliability. I'd prefer an older reliable make rather than a much newer non-reliable make.

Is it worth going to the UK to get better deals?

Thanks in advance for any advice or tips. I'd google all of the above only I'm still travelling so my net time is limited!

30-04-2011 12:26PM

Stay travelling

bazz26 · 30-04-2011 02:09PM

You will find it hard to find a small capacity diesel for €2k to €3k that isn't knackered at this stage. Corolla 1.4 D-4D only appeared from 2004 and they still fetch alot these days. Yaris with the same but less powerful engine are rare as hen's teeth and again cost more.

Everyone wants cheap diesels so prices for anything decent are crazy. I reckon you will need to up your budget or look at something with slightly higher tax.

30-04-2011 02:29PM

bazz26 wrote: »

look at something with slightly higher tax.

+1, €600/annum road tax will get plenty of sub €3000 50+mpg diesels.

Ferris · 30-04-2011 02:30PM

Polo or fiesta 1.4 diesels might work. This type of car (small, diesel) are very popular these days so are hard to come by.

bazz26 · 30-04-2011 02:44PM

Ferris wrote: »

Polo or fiesta 1.4 diesels might work. This type of car (small, diesel) are very popular these days so are hard to come by.

Popular usually means stronge resale value though.

maidhc · 30-04-2011 02:46PM

1.6 Orion or Escort Diesel (not turbo) will be good for 60mpg+.

bazz26 · 30-04-2011 03:03PM

maidhc wrote: »

1.6 Orion or Escort Diesel (not turbo) will be good for 60mpg+.

Are there any of these left around though? The rest of the car usually fell apart long before the engine went. Also most of the last Escorts had the 1.8 TD stove?

Anan1 · 30-04-2011 03:11PM

maidhc wrote: »

1.6 Orion or Escort Diesel (not turbo) will be good for 60mpg+.

True, although enough miles to justify changing to a diesel might be too many to be doing in either of the above.;)

OP - Are you sure this makes financial (as opposed to psychological) sense?

Nissan doctor · 30-04-2011 03:14PM

Corsa B 1.5 diesel or Astra/vectra 1.7 diesel.

They use the old Isuzu engine and a re pretty bullet proof. The cars themselves have their moments but are cheap to maintain.

TheAnswer · 30-04-2011 03:21PM

Skoda Fabia or Octavia with the non turbo SDi lump(67bhp), it doesn't get any more reliable or basic than this! plus the rest of the car is solid enough to last the hundreds of thousands of miles that the engines can clock up. TBH you'd be better off with the TDi version of same engine, comes in 90/105/110/130/150bhp versions. Stick to the lower powered ones and they're just as reliable and slightly more economical than the SDi version. All of the above also applies to the Golf/Bora.

bbam · 30-04-2011 03:29PM

Why not go for a Bora/Passat/A4 TDI, 02/03 and get her chipped for fuel economy.. Some of the guys chipping will allow you a month and if no decent fuel savings are made they will unchip and return your cash..

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2086737

shamwari · 30-04-2011 03:56PM

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Corsa B 1.5 diesel or Astra/vectra 1.7 diesel.

They use the old Isuzu engine and a re pretty bullet proof. The cars themselves have their moments but are cheap to maintain.

I had a Corsa 1.5 TD and Cavalier 1.7TD (Isuzu engined) and they were simply brilliant. Last Opel I had was an Astra 1.7TD with GM's own low blow engine in it. It was a dreadful heap of Sh**e and to this day, I've never touched another GM car following that nightmare period of GM ownership

.

Lavattack · 30-04-2011 04:04PM

bbam wrote: »

Why not go for a Bora/Passat/A4 TDI, 02/03 and get her chipped for fuel economy.. Some of the guys chipping will allow you a month and if no decent fuel savings are made they will unchip and return your cash..

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2086737

+1

Well almost. Thats seems a little expensive to me. I sold a far superior Passat albeit a year older for €1850. I would certainly recommend a Passat tho. Very comfortable, looks well, great mpg( once you get a clean one), can get a red DI for bigger brake also which isn't a slow motor for a diesel at all!! Tax is circa €580 alright but make that back from the pumps anyway.

Good luck with it

GTDolanator · 30-04-2011 06:54PM

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Corsa B 1.5 diesel or Astra/vectra 1.7 diesel.

They use the old Isuzu engine and a re pretty bullet proof. The cars themselves have their moments but are cheap to maintain.

this man speaks sense

the isuzu lump just keeps going.....even with poor to no servicing i still managed to get 250k from one in a combo,little gem

Mar4ix · 30-04-2011 06:57PM

most economical car is vw lupo with diesel engine.

shedweller · 30-04-2011 08:16PM

Mar4ix wrote: »

most economical car is vw lupo with diesel engine.

Great mpg:http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=L/100Km&viewcar=2797 but tiny. And rare as hens teeth. The 3L lupo did 3L/100k combined but had an engine that very little could be done on. For example; the head was held on with bolts that went right through to the big end bearings. Fitted in the factory and could never be removed. This changed the shape of the big end bearings and could not be used again! plus they don't make them any more...

As a diesel yaris owner i am a bit biased but it is a great small car. 3.4L/100k. Normal enough driving. Slightly harder on tyres than i'd like but not too bad.

OP, you'll have to do the figures, get your annual distance, factor in the L/100k of your chosen car and get the yearly fuel cost. Then look up any problems associated with that car and see if you can live with that problem or if it is cheap to fix.
Being an mpg nut i can empathise with your wanting to get something with serious mpg. But there is no point getting something too small if you need the space, just to get good mpg. Once you get between 4 to 5 L/100k then you are doing ok. Any lower is hard to get and the savings are small really. I currently do 3.4L/100k but with a lot of effort i could get a tankful at 3.2 or a little lower. But its a lot of effort for a very small gain.

pick a few cars, research any problems they have and go from there.

Good luck!

Redjeep! · 30-04-2011 10:45PM

GTDolanator wrote: »

this man speaks sense

the isuzu lump just keeps going.....even with poor to no servicing i still managed to get 250k from one in a combo,little gem

Maybe getting mine serviced regularly was my mistake. The only car I've ever owned in 20+ years that had serious engine failure (beyond economical repair) had that same engine.

I do believe that in general, they are bombproof though.

goat2 · 30-04-2011 10:59PM

Dagon wrote: »

I've been traveling a bit, and in my absence the fuel prices have gone through the roof! Taxing, insuring and most of all paying petrol for my lovely 2L Celica is going to cost me a bomb, so...

I'm in the market for a diesel car for around 2000 to 3000 euros. I don't care much about power anymore - had an MR2 and a few Celicas, so I've had my fun. To keep the tax low I'm hoping to get something with a small engine too, maybe between 1.3 to 1.6. I have a preference for Japanese built cars, but am willing to go for something European if it is high in reliability. I'd prefer an older reliable make rather than a much newer non-reliable make.

Is it worth going to the UK to get better deals?

Thanks in advance for any advice or tips. I'd google all of the above only I'm still travelling so my net time is limited!

one of my family members bought a ford fiesta diesel new in 2010 trading in her 10 yr old fiesta for scrappage, the previous fiesta had just been paid off, she finds that the new one is costing 20 euro less to run per week for the same milage than the old petrol version, my advice to you is you will not get a good small diesel car at that price as they are snapped up, but with the savings on fuel and taxation you would be better off going fairlynew with less milage that would last a while, her car does 60 miles per gallon and she is delighted with it

maidhc · 30-04-2011 11:09PM

bazz26 wrote: »

Are there any of these left around though? The rest of the car usually fell apart long before the engine went. Also most of the last Escorts had the 1.8 TD stove?

Id say they are all gone long ago.

Dagon · 01-05-2011 04:01AM

Many thanks for all the info guys, really appreciate it. This has given me good food for thought!!

I will be in the uk for a while, worth having a look or are the best deals in ireland with the current exchange rate?

Seriously considering a passat or octavia, could be worth the higher tax in the long run:-)

lomb · 01-05-2011 07:46AM

shedweller wrote: »

Great mpg:http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=L/100Km&viewcar=2797 but tiny. And rare as hens teeth. The 3L lupo did 3L/100k combined but had an engine that very little could be done on. For example; the head was held on with bolts that went right through to the big end bearings. Fitted in the factory and could never be removed. This changed the shape of the big end bearings and could not be used again! plus they don't make them any more...

As a diesel yaris owner i am a bit biased but it is a great small car. 3.4L/100k. Normal enough driving. Slightly harder on tyres than i'd like but not too bad.

OP, you'll have to do the figures, get your annual distance, factor in the L/100k of your chosen car and get the yearly fuel cost. Then look up any problems associated with that car and see if you can live with that problem or if it is cheap to fix.
Being an mpg nut i can empathise with your wanting to get something with serious mpg. But there is no point getting something too small if you need the space, just to get good mpg. Once you get between 4 to 5 L/100k then you are doing ok. Any lower is hard to get and the savings are small really. I currently do 3.4L/100k but with a lot of effort i could get a tankful at 3.2 or a little lower. But its a lot of effort for a very small gain.

pick a few cars, research any problems they have and go from there.

Good luck!

The problem with non linear diesel engines, and small petrol engines is the combination of fuel and oxygen to produce motive power is not the same wonderful experiance as a turbo charged petrol or high capacity revvy petrol.

What Im saying is you only live once. OP enjoy the 190 or whatever BHP from the Celica and pay for it with something else:)

shedweller · 01-05-2011 07:25PM

lomb wrote: »

The problem with non linear diesel engines, and small petrol engines is the combination of fuel and oxygen to produce motive power is not the same wonderful experiance as a turbo charged petrol or high capacity revvy petrol.

What Im saying is you only live once. OP enjoy the 190 or whatever BHP from the Celica and pay for it with something else:)

Aye but the OP wants to save a few bob. Agreed on the turbo petrol experience though.

superfish · 01-05-2011 11:02PM

why not go for an octavia I just bought one today for 2 grand its a 01 in mint cond and according to the onboard comp 15 euro worth of diesel is going to get me 190 miles thats if its correct of course. but I was impressed with the drive they are a lovely comfortable car and by no means underpowered, I did a fair bit of research into them before buying and from what I hear they are near bulletproof

Dagon · 17-05-2011 09:59AM

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm seriously considering an Octavia now, possibly from the UK.

Another option is a small commercial van, such as a Berlingo.

Max Power1 · 17-05-2011 10:22AM

Fiesta Van - with the 1.4 TDi engine.

I've been looking at a few of these recently and they are surprisingly cheap (a 2008 for example is €6k)

BostonB · 17-05-2011 10:52AM

If economy is the main thing, theres a 1.3 CTDI in Fiats and Opels. Its gutless unless your in the powerband which is narrow. Stay in the powerband and its got decent punch. Bigger engine would have more torque for overtaking if thats an issue. But smaller engine gives you cheaper tax, insurance. Theres also a 1.4 AYGO in other countries.

TBH with small diesel engines, you'd get much better choice in the UK. They aren't a premuim over there as tax and insurance aren't as bad on bigger engines.

BostonB · 17-05-2011 10:56AM

We had a 1.7 TD Isuzu Astra a few years back which was great, but Opel couldn't fix a engine management problem with it, which seems to be a big issues on those cars. With VW you get ABS and turbo problems. If you have any those it might wipe any saving in economy you get.

If you are doing big mileage you might not want a small car either.

cadaliac · 17-05-2011 11:03AM

Dagon wrote: »

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm seriously considering an Octavia now, possibly from the UK.

Another option is a small commercial van, such as a Berlingo.

Unless you get a HDi Berlingo, you will only get about 33 mpg!
Don't let the diesel van thing fool you into thinking they are ecnomical. Its like pushing a barn door through the air.

Max Power1 · 17-05-2011 11:03AM

BostonB wrote: »

If economy is the main thing, theres a 1.3 CTDI in Fiats and Opels. Its gutless unless your in the powerband which is narrow. Stay in the powerband and its got decent punch. Bigger engine would have more torque for overtaking if thats an issue. But smaller engine gives you cheaper tax, insurance. Theres also a 1.4 AYGO in other countries.

TBH with small diesel engines, you'd get much better choice in the UK. They aren't a premuim over there as tax and insurance aren't as bad on bigger engines.

+1
You could get a fiat panda diesel in the UK relatively easily for example, but i havent even seen one this side of the water.

fletch · 17-05-2011 11:06AM

Greenline Fabia

kermitpwee · 17-05-2011 11:23AM

superfish wrote: »

why not go for an octavia I just bought one today for 2 grand its a 01 in mint cond and according to the onboard comp 15 euro worth of diesel is going to get me 190 miles thats if its correct of course. but I was impressed with the drive they are a lovely comfortable car and by no means underpowered, I did a fair bit of research into them before buying and from what I hear they are near bulletproof

I wouldn't trust those computers too much. 1f diesel is 1.47euro per litre then you are getting a very impressive 84.5mpg:D

colm_mcm · 17-05-2011 11:24AM

fletch wrote: »

Greenline Fabia

Any garages giving €14k discounts?

colm_mcm · 17-05-2011 11:35AM

My suggestions:

Ford fusion 1.4 TDCi
Awful looking so therefore awful cheap
Unlikely to have been driven hard
PSA HDI engine basically.

Civic 1.7 ctdi ep3
GM engine
Respectable in 3 door
UK import only
Well specced

Renault Clio 1.5 dCi
Loads up north and in uk
Cheap
Nice handling

Dagon · 18-05-2011 08:48AM

That's a really cool article about the Greenline Fabia! Definitely a car I'll consider in a few years

I don't want to go too small, and the commercial van option is probably not the best route to low mpg so I've narrowed it down to:
- 2001 to 2003 Octavia 1.9 SDI or TDI
- 2001 to 2003 Fabia 1.9 "
- Civic 1.7 ctdi

More than likely I'll pick up a UK Octavia model. I've seen some bargains for 2002 models that are little over 1000 pounds, and the sterling conversion rate is good at the moment. VRT is very cheap on the 1.9 SDI/TDI because emissions are around the 140 mark. Sorted

Raskolnikov · 18-05-2011 10:44AM

I own a Skoda Fabia SDI. Just a word of warning though, the performance is pathetic to say the least. If you're used to driving a 200BHP car, I think there's a good chance that you will reject it outright after a test drive. If you can get over the performance being useless though, it has lots going for it.

1. Insurance is insanely cheap. When I bought mine, only car I could get a cheaper quote on was a 0.9l Fiat Seicento.
2. My tax as well is is bugger all as CO2 emissions are low.
3. I find that even doing 120kmph on the motorway, the economy doesn't nosedive like it would on a petrol engine. I tend to stick to about that speed limit and get 60mpg as long as I'm not pumping the pedals.
4. The SDI engine itself is regarded as being bulletproof and there's no reason it shouldn't get over 200k miles.
5. Cars built with an SDI engine seem strangely cheap. I get the feeling that folks automatically think that a 1.9 litre engine will cost a fortune to insure and so completely discount it.

For your budget, and with the intention of keeping your costs low, you ain't going to do better than an SDI. I think you'll get something decent here in that range for €3k. Probably not worth going to the UK though. At the lower end of a budget, I don't think it makes sense to import as prices there for older cars aren't a million miles off prices here.

BostonB · 18-05-2011 10:56AM

People are power/speed crazy, economy comes a distant second for many.

tuborg_man · 18-05-2011 12:30PM

For a cheap to run car i'd go for the 1.5 diesel pug 106,
http://www.gumtree.ie/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/peugeot-106-disel-15-l/75591238
bit over priced but will cost next to nothing to run. (slow though)
That or a turbo D xantia

CuppaCocoa · 18-05-2011 03:02PM

I have a 2006 1.2 Fiat Idea. They're out of production but still some around. Not great oomph in it until you get on the motorway but very comfortable and nice driving position. Runs on the sniff of an oily rag! Delighted with it

shedweller · 18-05-2011 03:16PM

Dagon wrote: »

............................ so I've narrowed it down to:
- 2001 to 2003 Octavia 1.9 SDI or TDI
- 2001 to 2003 Fabia 1.9 "
- Civic 1.7 ctdi

More than likely I'll pick up a UK Octavia model. I've seen some bargains for 2002 models that are little over 1000 pounds, and the sterling conversion rate is good at the moment. VRT is very cheap on the 1.9 SDI/TDI because emissions are around the 140 mark. Sorted

Let us know how it goes, OP, and what kind of fuel costs you have.
Good Luck!

C4Kid · 18-05-2011 04:54PM

I own a Skoda Fabia SDI. Just a word of warning though, the performance is pathetic to say the least. If you're used to driving a 200BHP car, I think there's a good chance that you will reject it outright after a test drive. If you can get over the performance being useless though, it has lots going for it.

1. Insurance is insanely cheap. When I bought mine, only car I could get a cheaper quote on was a 0.9l Fiat Seicento.
2. My tax as well is is bugger all as CO2 emissions are low.
3. I find that even doing 120kmph on the motorway, the economy doesn't nosedive like it would on a petrol engine. I tend to stick to about that speed limit and get 60mpg as long as I'm not pumping the pedals.
4. The SDI engine itself is regarded as being bulletproof and there's no reason it shouldn't get over 200k miles.
5. Cars built with an SDI engine seem strangely cheap. I get the feeling that folks automatically think that a 1.9 litre engine will cost a fortune to insure and so completely discount it.

+1

When in the market for a Golf (same engines) I found the same results. SDI's were cheap to buy, insure & run, thats if You can accept the lack of power. Bulletproof becuase there is no turbo to replaced when blown.

VW call it an industrial engine

http://rheamp.bg/pdfs/VW-Dvigatel-SDI1.9.pdf

An SDI engine is for people who want reliability and economy . I got a 1.4 in the end, should have taken a test drive in an SDI though. MPG definitly suffers big time on Motorways in mine.

galwaytt · 18-05-2011 11:36PM

tuborg_man wrote: »

For a cheap to run car i'd go for the 1.5 diesel pug 106,
http://www.gumtree.ie/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/peugeot-106-disel-15-l/75591238
bit over priced but will cost next to nothing to run. (slow though)
That or a turbo D xantia

A friend of mine ran interstellar mileage on his Saxo 1.5D ............70mpg was easy.

A lower-tech car is hard to find, but that's probably why it lasts so well.

Dagon · 19-05-2011 04:09AM

Thanks again for all the info. I will let you guys know how it goes for me in the end.

Perhaps know prices aren't much cheaper in the uk, but a lot of the cars seem better specced and with fsh and more motorway driving as opposed to country roads,etc. Also passing through london on the way back from my travels so thought it would be worth having a look around.

superfish · 21-05-2011 05:59PM

kermitpwee wrote: »

I wouldn't trust those computers too much. 1f diesel is 1.47euro per litre then you are getting a very impressive 84.5mpg:D

I thought the same but ive had it a few week now and the computer is near crack on infact some times depending on how I drive it I get even more miles than stated im averaging 330 miles to 30 euro diesel its an absolute miser

BostonB · 21-05-2011 06:09PM

superfish wrote: »

why not go for an octavia I just bought one today for 2 grand its a 01 in mint cond and according to the onboard comp 15 euro worth of diesel is going to get me 190 miles thats if its correct of course. but I was impressed with the drive they are a lovely comfortable car and by no means underpowered, I did a fair bit of research into them before buying and from what I hear they are near bulletproof

Just out of curiosity which one did you get? How much miles on it.

superfish · 21-05-2011 07:04PM

BostonB wrote: »

Just out of curiosity which one did you get? How much miles on it.

its the tdi ambience 90 thousand miles on it

Dagon · 22-05-2011 11:56AM

Not a bad deal superfish! Did you find it on donedeal? And what part of the country did you get it from?

superfish · 22-05-2011 09:49PM

Dagon wrote: »

Not a bad deal superfish! Did you find it on donedeal? And what part of the country did you get it from?

yea it was on done deal I saw the ad as soon as it was posted and went straight down and bought it.I had been looking for one for a while but they were all asking stupid money, this one was in athenry

kermitpwee · 24-05-2011 08:34AM

superfish wrote: »

I thought the same but ive had it a few week now and the computer is near crack on infact some times depending on how I drive it I get even more miles than stated im averaging 330 miles to 30 euro diesel its an absolute miser

Yes your average is 73mpg compared to the 84mpg that i commeneted on earlier. The only accurate way to measure mpg is to brim the tank, do your mileage and brim again and work mpg based on how many litres you have used.

Looking for a super economical car, any advice?

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