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So, this Austerity is going well, isn't it ?

  • 02-06-2011 11:20AM
    #1
    Rabidlamb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭


    We're 2 budgets in & how much have we saved, thruppence ha'penny if Newstalk are to be believed this morning.
    Some retired IMF chap says we're still running a €18.2 billion deficit.
    All this grief for nowt, if I get any angrier I'll be stepping up my Facebook campaign.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Owldshtok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 292 ✭✭Owldshtok


    What would you have in mind for the facebook campaign?


  • #3
    pog it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭pog it


    There are several Irish protest groups on Facebook already, everyone feeling the way you do... but people need to get out on the streets.
    I firmly believe it will happen. A lot of people have said that they will not pay these new charges and would rather face jail. I'm one of those people. I will only pay if they do as Morgan Kelly advised, and let the bank debt go back into the hands of ECB and the banks. If not, jail it is for me an ordinary citizen who has done no wrong.


  • #4
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    We're 2 budgets in & how much have we saved, thruppence ha'penny if Newstalk are to be believed this morning.
    Some retired IMF chap says we're still running a €18.2 billion deficit.
    All this grief for nowt, if I get any angrier I'll be stepping up my Facebook campaign.


    Do you not think the deficit would be higher without the austerity measures?


  • #5
    Rabidlamb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Rabidlamb


    black francis wrote: »
    Do you not think the deficit would be higher without the austerity measures?

    Yes but this ship is very slow to turn around.
    Christ, if we thought last years budget was bad we're in for a big shock next December.


  • #6
    Owldshtok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 292 ✭✭Owldshtok


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    Yes but this ship is very slow to turn around.
    Christ, if we thought last years budget was bad we're in for a big shock next December.

    After years of reckless spending and squandering in the good times it will take a while longer with sustained austerity to turn around the ship.I don't think the current Government are in denial about that.


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  • #7
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Yes, the estimate for the exchequer balance (basically the figure Michael Noonan gets when he sticks the states debit card into the ATM at Leinster House) is -€18.2 billion

    I should point out that when you speak of austerity, it is important to remember that gross and net current expenditures are going to remain reasonably stable over the period to 2015. They will only deteriorate very little in relative terms (net current expenditure will remain at about €48bn throughout). Gross and Net capital expenditures too will not be dramatic, so if I were you I would not be holding my breath in expecting major, major changes in terms of austerity.

    The real changes in terms of the exchequer balance will come in terms of current revenues - basically, taxes. Net current revenues are projected to increase by about €8 billion in the period up to 2015, and will be the major factor in eating into the current budget balance.

    Of course, at that point, about 1 in 5 of your tax euros will be going towards interest payments on the national debt.

    I would step up that facebook campaign if I were you....


  • #8
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,099 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    We're 2 budgets in & how much have we saved, thruppence ha'penny if Newstalk are to be believed this morning.
    Some retired IMF chap says we're still running a €18.2 billion deficit.
    All this grief for nowt, if I get any angrier I'll be stepping up my Facebook campaign.


    Facebook is a site that seems to exist only for people to share every insipid iota of their lives with the world. If you want to make a difference, you need to get off your computer and out into the streets.


  • #9
    tweedledee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭tweedledee


    Of course the Austerity plan is working.Its working a treat.the top 10% most well off are now even MORE well off and the bottom 35% are LESS well off.
    The Rich are now MORE wealthy and the poor have less.
    The Governments plans are all going well.:mad:


  • #10
    waffleman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭waffleman


    later10 wrote: »
    Yes, the estimate for the exchequer balance (basically the figure Michael Noonan gets when he sticks the states debit card into the ATM at Leinster House) is -€18.2 billion

    I should point out that when you speak of austerity, it is important to remember that gross and net current expenditures are going to remain reasonably stable over the period to 2015. They will only deteriorate very little in relative terms (net current expenditure will remain at about €48bn throughout). Gross and Net capital expenditures too will not be dramatic, so if I were you I would not be holding my breath in expecting major, major changes in terms of austerity.

    The real changes in terms of the exchequer balance will come in terms of current revenues - basically, taxes. Net current revenues are projected to increase by about €8 billion in the period up to 2015, and will be the major factor in eating into the current budget balance.

    Of course, at that point, about 1 in 5 of your tax euros will be going towards interest payments on the national debt.

    I would step up that facebook campaign if I were you....

    I'm confused - is there an official line on the bolded statement published somewhere?

    I can't see people being too happy to watch the billions in debt racking up for the next 3.5 years while the goverment taxes the hell out of everyone and does very little to cut spending?


  • #11
    tweedledee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭tweedledee


    Austerity Plans are never about helping the entire economy.They are designed to protect the wealthy upper classes and keep them protected using lower paid workers taxes.
    The gulible,lazy Irish won't get off their backsides and do anything about it.
    So the Government does what they like,under the direction of two massive banks,which are run by..................BANKERS.
    Say no more.:rolleyes:


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  • #12
    GSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭GSF


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    We're 2 budgets in & how much have we saved, thruppence ha'penny if Newstalk are to be believed this morning.
    Some retired IMF chap says we're still running a €18.2 billion deficit.
    All this grief for nowt, if I get any angrier I'll be stepping up my Facebook campaign.

    What austerity? We are still paying doctors about twice the EU average.

    If austerity means not living beyong our incomes, you have a different definition to me.


  • #13
    maximoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,210 ✭✭✭maximoose


    OH NOES NOT A FACEBOOK CAMPAIGN!

    :rolleyes:


  • #14
    Rabidlamb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Rabidlamb


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Facebook is a site that seems to exist only for people to share every insipid iota of their lives with the world. If you want to make a difference, you need to get off your computer and out into the streets.
    maximoose wrote: »
    OH NOES NOT A FACEBOOK CAMPAIGN!

    :rolleyes:
    Owldshtok wrote: »
    What would you have in mind for the facebook campaign?

    Ok, I was only being facetious about the Facebook campaign.
    It was a jibe at Irish people taking it lying down & doing nowt.


  • #15
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Facebook can be useful for making people aware of protests or demonstrations but in and of itself, its useless. Forgive me for linking to another Cracked article in the politics forum, but I came across this the other day and it makes some good points about the Arab Spring.


  • #16
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,567 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    tweedledee wrote: »
    Austerity Plans are never about helping the entire economy.They are designed to protect the wealthy upper classes and keep them protected using lower paid workers taxes.

    but everything done so far only protects the high welfare and PS at the expense of everyone else. Wealthy people still pay far far more tax than everyone else


  • #17
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    waffleman wrote: »
    I'm confused - is there an official line on the bolded statement published somewhere?

    I can't see people being too happy to watch the billions in debt racking up for the next 3.5 years while the goverment taxes the hell out of everyone and does very little to cut spending?

    Ireland Stability Programme Update. Pg 24. Table 10: Indicative Public Finance Projections 2011-15


    91ec7706fe.jpg


  • #18
    careca11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭careca11


    it is going well for ivor callely and his buddies :D


  • #19
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,567 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    later10 wrote: »
    Ireland Stability Programme Update. Pg 24. Table 10: Indicative Public Finance Projections 2011-15

    a budget that has expenditure above revenue, thus placing more importance on it just strikes me as wrong...


  • #20
    waffleman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭waffleman


    later10 wrote: »
    Ireland Stability Programme Update. Pg 24. Table 10: Indicative Public Finance Projections 2011-15

    Wow! Carlsberg don't do spineless, thieving governments but if they did.....

    if this goes ahead without protest I will be emigrating - enough is enough


  • #21
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,591 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    a budget that has expenditure above revenue, thus placing more importance on it just strikes me as wrong...


    I think as long as we have so many vested interests in this country we are going to get no where..

    I mean i feel sorry for the people on the dole but it needs to be cut but done in a way that those on long term are forced to get up off the ass to work

    The PS needs to be tackled and cut in both wage and numbers...The Unions need to be broken aswell

    The banks should of been told to feck right off. They are nothing but a parasite at the moment

    I mean the average bog standard worker (non - ps) are having cash taken away by cuts in wage and hours, increased taxes, Their pensions being ramsacked by the gov and other allowences been taken away and yet the gov deem it nessacery to hit them again with water charges and flat taxes on the house they are living in which is probably in neg equity and they cannot get rid of..

    I mean it beggers belief how much we have taken and basically bent over further and asked for a bit more vasoline to ease the pain


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  • #22
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭mrgaa1


    but even with all these measures people are still living well. The cars are still getting fuel put in them, people are still eating out, supermarkets are still selling food.

    Not enough cuts done yet. I overheard a teacher saying the other day they are looking forward to a pay increase once the extra exams are passed.
    Wages need to be cut further, remove the dead wood in departments; cut the Seanad now; knock down all real ghost estates; remove VAT from all new house sales; borrow some more money and create work; get broadband implemented everywhere ASAP; upgrade all our schools (helps unemployment and helps the children gain a better education); cut VAT rates further; cut duty on tourist features such as food, drink, hotels etc....
    I like what Kenny is apparantly saying about talk the country up - someone has to.

    We are all surviving and we will survive.


  • #23
    careca11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭careca11


    I just found out today that the pension levy will on average over the course of the rest of my working life take €21,000 in levies out of my pension.

    to be Quite honest I would love not to be paying into a penison at all ,
    I'd perfer to have my €32 weekly contribution in my own pocket ( I need it )


  • #24
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,591 ✭✭✭fliball123


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    but even with all these measures people are still living well. The cars are still getting fuel put in them, people are still eating out, supermarkets are still selling food.

    Not enough cuts done yet. I overheard a teacher saying the other day they are looking forward to a pay increase once the extra exams are passed.
    Wages need to be cut further, remove the dead wood in departments; cut the Seanad now; knock down all real ghost estates; remove VAT from all new house sales; borrow some more money and create work; get broadband implemented everywhere ASAP; upgrade all our schools (helps unemployment and helps the children gain a better education); cut VAT rates further; cut duty on tourist features such as food, drink, hotels etc....
    I like what Kenny is apparantly saying about talk the country up - someone has to.

    We are all surviving and we will survive.

    True sure the RTE are all getting increases aswell which will cost 30 million and yet we have not got enough cash to have special needs assistants. Having said that its plain to see that there are some sectors of the population suffering and some who find this recession nothing more than an annoyance as its takin up so much of their print when reading the indo.

    But there are people out there suffering... I would say the middle and lower class people working in the private sector are really struggling..Not saying other sectors are but nearly all other sectors (upper class, ps and social welfare) all have vested interests looking after thier corner


  • #25
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    tweedledee wrote: »
    Austerity Plans are never about helping the entire economy.They are designed to protect the wealthy upper classes and keep them protected using lower paid workers taxes.
    The gulible,lazy Irish won't get off their backsides and do anything about it.

    Someone should point out to you that it's the wealthy who pay most of our tax, the poorer paid pay feck all. So for your scenario to be so we'd have to actually tax the lower paid workers a lot more first. Personally I see nothing wrong with everyone paying a fairer share.


  • #26
    mlumley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭mlumley


    fliball123 wrote: »
    I mean i feel sorry for the people on the dole but it needs to be cut but done in a way that those on long term are forced to get up off the ass to work

    And just where are the 440,400 jobs going to magicaly apear from???
    Not all people on the dole long term want to be there.

    I am 61 next birthday, who is gonna employ me when they can have the pick of 20 30 40 year olds.

    Your just falling for the devide and conqure crap that the government and media put out.

    Yes dole is high, so is the cost of just living in this country.

    Try things like taxing hourse breaders, artists able to earn 500,000 befor tax. Tax billionairs on world worth like US and Spain and a few outher countries.

    You will then get more than cutting dole.


  • #27
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    mlumley wrote: »
    Your just falling for the devide and conqure crap that the government and media put out.

    Yes dole is high, so is the cost of just living in this country.

    Try things like taxing hourse breaders, artists able to earn 500,000 befor tax. Tax billionairs on world worth like US and Spain and a few outher countries.

    You will then get more than cutting dole.

    Personally I think it's simple... if there is no money, money cannot be spent. Though you wouldn't think it the way we're still spending. There is no way we can sustain dole which is more than double equivalent countries and argue that the cost of living is high. Is the cost of living here double those countries? I think not.

    We already tax the rich, outside of a handful of super rich.


  • #28
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    mlumley wrote: »
    Try things like taxing hourse breaders, artists able to earn 500,000 befor tax. Tax billionairs on world worth like US and Spain and a few outher countries.

    You will then get more than cutting dole.
    Horse breeders are taxed. If you taxed stallion fees at 100% for 2008, the last year when the Irish equestrian industry was remotely healthy, you would have earned the princely sum of about 90 million. Also the artists exemption has been all but abolished, except for those earning very average incomes.

    If you think there is more to be gained in these minor taxes than there is to be saved in terms of exchequer spending on social welfare payments, quite frankly you are kidding yourself.

    I am not necessarily saying that all social welfare payments must fall, but I am saying that the comparisons with artists exemptions dont add up, and that no comparison is possible in terms of stallion fees, because stallion fees are already taxed and even a 100% tax would not make a big difference (except in terms of increasing unemployment)


  • #29
    careca11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭careca11


    meglome wrote: »
    Personally I think it's simple... if there is no money, money cannot be spent. Though you wouldn't think it the way we're still spending. There is no way we can sustain dole which is more than double equivalent countries and argue that the cost of living is high. Is the cost of living here double those countries? I think not.

    We already tax the rich, outside of a handful of super rich.

    we don't tax the rich enough ,

    someone earning 50,000pa is taxed at the same level as some like ESB chief earning €450,000pa or the Vodafone Ireland chief €932,000pa

    sound fair ? i fechin think not something here has got to be done


  • #30
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,591 ✭✭✭fliball123


    mlumley wrote: »
    And just where are the 440,400 jobs going to magicaly apear from???
    Not all people on the dole long term want to be there.

    I am 61 next birthday, who is gonna employ me when they can have the pick of 20 30 40 year olds.

    Your just falling for the devide and conqure crap that the government and media put out.

    Yes dole is high, so is the cost of just living in this country.

    Try things like taxing hourse breaders, artists able to earn 500,000 befor tax. Tax billionairs on world worth like US and Spain and a few outher countries.

    You will then get more than cutting dole.

    Its actully more than that..Look I know there is a lack of jobs..and its not to you at what I aiming at..If the gov told you that you would have your dole slashed if you didnt take a job that your were qualified for or that you wouldnt do say 10/15 hours community service or its being slashed or if you got offered a course and refused it. This is what is happening...There are people on the dole who have made a career out of it..If you have a genuine respect for work and are able bodied what I propose would not impact you at all providing your doing the above..and as for the whole devide and conquer thing this is the reality of the situation everyone is fighting their corner..All I am saying is that the people on the dole have people fighting there corner...same with the richest in society as do those in the public sector...I mean as I say I feel sorry for anyone on the dole who is there through no fault of their own and are making a genuine attempt for employment but i have no sorrow for those who are abusing it..

    As for your suggestions all good and should be done but its not going to fix the over 18 deficit..We have had 3 sh1tty budgets and the deficit (mainly because of bank loan and interest repayments) and we have only really come down by 2billion odd

    As I pointed out tax will be going up so why not try to cut a bit on the spending as well


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  • #31
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    How do they expect people to spend money in the economy next year with 2 new home related charges.

    Unemployment will go up again next year for sure.


  • #32
    c1964
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42 ✭c1964


    With the "Irish" government announcing another austerity measure imposed by the EU/IMF deal, what are trade unions doing to address the imposition of another €500 stealth tax?
    As with anything this government has imposed on it's citizens, they are still blaming the previous FF led coalition. Why don't they tear up the deal, do what Declan Gannon suggested and tender for a printing press for the printing of Irish Punts and let the EU sit up and take notice.
    If the unions won't stand up for it's members, let the people organise a weeks strike themselves beginning January 1st 2012, just as this un-nessary fee is implemented.


  • #33
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    c1964 wrote: »
    let the people organise a weeks strike themselves beginning January 1st 2012, just as this un-nessary fee is implemented.

    You should start a Facebook campaign!


  • #34
    lille
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12 ✭lille


    c1964 wrote: »
    With the "Irish" government announcing another austerity measure imposed by the EU/IMF deal, what are trade unions doing to address the imposition of another €500 stealth tax?
    As with anything this government has imposed on it's citizens, they are still blaming the previous FF led coalition. Why don't they tear up the deal, do what Declan Gannon suggested and tender for a printing press for the printing of Irish Punts and let the EU sit up and take notice.
    If the unions won't stand up for it's members, let the people organise a weeks strike themselves beginning January 1st 2012, just as this un-nessary fee is implemented.


    The unions are very quiet, we'll see when the negotiations are over for Richard Brutons wage reforms, if they can salvage a few crumbs off the table for the workers!!!! Definately agree, about the weeks strike, the gov will keep taking, at some point people will have to say enough is enough


  • #35
    c1964
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42 ✭c1964


    I posed a similar question on my Facebook Page hoping it will ignite people to stand up to these terrible measures caused by a few greedy people whom still havn't been brought to justice for their actions.
    I agree with a lot of the ideals which Europe stands for, but European banks are at fault for this crisis, not just Irish banks. We're the fall guys for a weak FF Gov.


  • #36
    naoise80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭naoise80


    careca11 wrote: »
    we don't tax the rich enough ,

    someone earning 50,000pa is taxed at the same level as some like ESB chief earning €450,000pa or the Vodafone Ireland chief €932,000pa

    sound fair ? i fechin think not something here has got to be done

    Someone earning 50K per year pays 29.7% in taxes and levies on income.

    Someone earning 450K pays 49.5%

    Someone earning 932K pays 50.8%.

    Sounds fair to me.

    Source http://taxcalc.eu/


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  • #37
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    GSF wrote: »
    What austerity? We are still paying doctors about twice the EU average.

    If austerity means not living beyong our incomes, you have a different definition to me.

    rescessions are only for little people , not for doctors to be concerned with such matters


  • #38
    srsly78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    @Naoise: Oh, you mean the poor don't pay much tax at all? So these socialists are completely lying!?!? I am shocked :eek:


  • #39
    naoise80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭naoise80


    Where did I mention anything about poor, or socialists.

    I pointed out that we have a progressive income tax systen, where the more you earn, the higher percentage of your income is paid in tax.

    In my opinion, this is the fairest system.


  • #40
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    careca11 wrote: »
    i fechin think not something here has got to be done
    ^"Something must be done. This is something, therefore we must do it!!"
    (- Yes Prime Minister)

    Your comment also reminds me of the comment "something must be done!" as made by King Edward VIII on visiting a group of distressed coal miners in the 1930s. He hopped back in his limousine and neglected to say what, exactly "something" was.

    So in that light, can people actually put forward some reasonable suggestions as to what exactly they mean.


  • #41
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,546 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    but shouldn't we be protecting the vulnerable and low paid? Surely the unions if wages are to be cut, would advocate cutting the higher paid and leaving the lower paid as they are? aren't they always on about solidarity, fairness, unity?


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  • #42
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    but shouldn't we be protecting the vulnerable and low paid? Surely the unions if wages are to be cut, would advocate cutting the higher paid and leaving the lower paid as they are? aren't they always on about solidarity, fairness, unity?
    Do you not see the rationale behind the idea that people earn money based on the value of their work? Do you think it is fair that a Doctor would be paid the same as an ice cream vendor? Because high earners already pay the biggest contributions in taxation terms, I would not call that a lack of solidarity on their behalf. Apart from recommending some sort of equalisation of income for every person, I really am not sure what you are suggesting.


  • #43
    delta_bravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    We're 2 budgets in & how much have we saved, thruppence ha'penny if Newstalk are to be believed this morning.
    Some retired IMF chap says we're still running a €18.2 billion deficit.
    All this grief for nowt, if I get any angrier I'll be stepping up my Facebook campaign.


    At last, some real action.


  • #44
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    later10 wrote: »
    I should point out that when you speak of austerity, it is important to remember that gross and net current expenditures are going to remain reasonably stable over the period to 2015. They will only deteriorate very little in relative terms (net current expenditure will remain at about €48bn throughout). Gross and Net capital expenditures too will not be dramatic, so if I were you I would not be holding my breath in expecting major, major changes in terms of austerity.

    The real changes in terms of the exchequer balance will come in terms of current revenues - basically, taxes. Net current revenues are projected to increase by about €8 billion in the period up to 2015, and will be the major factor in eating into the current budget balance.
    Just to make that plain and clear:

    The government are planning to keep most of the inefficiencies, overpayments, pension plans, quangos, and other encrustations of the bubble years. They are going to borrow at punitive rates (which need more taxes to cover the repayments) to pay for these things, until they can apply enough stealth taxes to pay for half of it.

    They are planning to tax their way out of the deficit problem.

    Is it any wonder the unions are saying nothing.

    I don't know, I tried to start a new political party which was my own form of protesting against the insanity that was Fianna Fáíl, got a nice bit of media coverage too for a few months, and offered some pretty solid ideas, which I've discussed at some length in this forum numerous times, but it looks like the country is going to have to be properly hammered before anyone will sit up and take notice.

    Seriously, these muppets haven't even got a plan to create the jobs they plan to tax to extinction, the leering, self congratulatory and self anointed cute hoors who are still there, the same gnomes peering out from under their publicly provided rocks, still doing what they do, and do it they shall.


  • #45
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I tried to start a new political party which was my own form of protesting against the insanity that was Fianna Fáíl, got a nice bit of media coverage too for a few months, and offered some pretty solid ideas, which I've discussed at some length in this forum numerous times, but it looks like the country is going to have to be properly hammered before anyone will sit up and take notice.
    And how many did you run in the election?


  • #46
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    later10 wrote: »
    And how many did you run in the election?
    Not a one, since we topped out at a little over two hundred signed up members spread all over the place, not concentrated in one area. Still more than any other nascent group has managed, and I say this with absolute certainty, having met many other such groups, and had discussions with them about mergers.

    The idea was as much to get people talking about new ideas anyway, gather them up and get them out there, at which it was partially successful; the ideas are out there now, just nobody in power is doing anything with them.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    knock down all real ghost estates

    Why oh why would you do that? Why wouldnt you put them up for firesale??
    I was enjoying your post until i saw that

    :(


    all the money we are borrowing then spending on NAMA buying up empty property from developers and people want to knock them down without giving people a chance to buy them :mad:


  • #48
    Clairefreeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Clairefreeman


    Any interest from anybody interested in a week in the sun in July


  • #49
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #50
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,567 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    naoise80 wrote: »
    I pointed out that we have a progressive income tax systen, where the more you earn, the higher percentage of your income is paid in tax.

    In my opinion, this is the fairest system.

    it's not progressive, it overly complicated and extremely unfair on high earners compared to lower earners.

    The fairest income tax system is a flat % of earnings, no credits, no exemptions. You pay (say) 15% whether you earn 5k or 500k.


  • #51
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    it's not progressive, it overly complicated and extremely unfair on high earners compared to lower earners.

    The fairest income tax system is a flat % of earnings, no credits, no exemptions. You pay (say) 15% whether you earn 5k or 500k.

    i think a flat tax is a great idea and one which should please the left aswell , what with its clear focus on equality :) , i.e , everyone is paying the same proportionatley but would 15% really be high enough , id have thought 20 at a minimum


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