Landlord Witholding Deposit, How Do I Fight It?

Johnny Derpp · 19-03-2011 01:27PM #1

Over a month after moving my previous LL has finally answered my calls as to why I haven't gotten my deposit back.
He has told me that he has had to professionally clean the carpets, re-paint the walls, replace mattress etc..

There was nothing wrong with any of these things and now he is re-kitting the whole place at my expense.

We are registered with the PRTB, is it even worth my hassle contacting them?

not even wrong · 19-03-2011 01:44PM

Johnny Derpp wrote: »

We are registered with the PRTB, is it even worth my hassle contacting them?

Yes. Also insist on a copy of the receipts.

He has told me that he has had to professionally clean the carpets, re-paint the walls, replace mattress etc..

Even if the walls did need to be repainted you are not liable to pay for it as long as it was caused by normal wear and tear. You could be the best tenant in the world and the walls would still need repainting every five years or so.

Johnny Derpp · 19-03-2011 01:48PM

not even wrong wrote: »

was caused by normal wear and tear. .

I've tried arguing this with him but he has stopped answering me.

filmbuffboy · 19-03-2011 03:36PM

go to threshold as well as prtb.

in future withhold last months rent to cover deposit. landlords are lethal for keeping deposits for stupid ungrounded reasons.

RachaelVO · 20-03-2011 10:38AM

You have to report it to everyone you can. This is very unreasonable by your landlord. He is totally taking the p1ss. Where you present at the final inspection?

Johnny Derpp · 20-03-2011 11:56AM

RachaelVO wrote: »

He is totally taking the p1ss. Where you present at the final inspection?

I wasn't. I couldn't be there but my flatmate was there and there was no problems reported.
Like I said, it's been over a month since we left and he is finally telling me why we haven't received our deposit.

Will it take ages to sort this through the prtb?
Will it be costly?

jamesbrond · 20-03-2011 12:10PM

Johnny Derpp wrote: »

I wasn't. I couldn't be there but my flatmate was there and there was no problems reported.
Like I said, it's been over a month since we left and he is finally telling me why we haven't received our deposit.

Will it take ages to sort this through the prtb?
Will it be costly?

It will take a while, but i dont think it will cost you anything.
You will win, unless he has evidence like photos of the bed, carpet and walls before and after. You should have taken these too.

But, like has been said, if its normal wear and tear you are ok. Things like, paint just going dull or flaking off and mattress and carpets just wearing out is notmal. But if there are stains/cig burns etc on the carpet and mattress you'll have to pay. Likewise if there are marks or holes in the walls that are not normal wear and tear.

not even wrong · 20-03-2011 01:01PM

Johnny Derpp wrote: »

Will it take ages to sort this through the prtb?

Check out the dates on the reports at http://public.prtb.ie/tribunal2010.htm, from looking at the first few it seems to be about 6-9 months between the complaint and the decision (longer if your landlord appeals).

Will it be costly?

It costs €25 to make a complaint to the PRTB. (If you really really want you can hire a solicitor at your own expense to advise you but you shouldn't need to in a straightforward case like this.)

You are almost certain to win unless your landlord can produce photos of holes in walls or ripped-up carpets.

RachaelVO · 20-03-2011 01:02PM

Johnny Derpp wrote: »

I wasn't. I couldn't be there but my flatmate was there and there was no problems reported.
Like I said, it's been over a month since we left and he is finally telling me why we haven't received our deposit.

Will it take ages to sort this through the prtb?
Will it be costly?

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but NEVER allow the landlord to do an inspection without you being present. That way you can tackle problems head on.

You have to report it, it may take a while (these things usually do), but it's your right to do so, so I would. It shouldn't cost you too much, if anything at all. I hope you have kept some form or record, including times and dates your tried to contact the landlord. Is there any chance you whipped out your phone and took some pics? (I'm guessing not)

Johnny Derpp · 20-03-2011 11:24PM

Well there was someone present during the inspection and nothing was noted.

I didn't take picture becasue I just didn't think to do any of these things becasue I did not see this coming, the LL was a really nice bloke and we never had trouble for the past three years that I had been living there.

Thanks for the feedback folks.

20-03-2011 11:26PM

filmbuffboy wrote: »

in future withhold last months rent to cover deposit. landlords are lethal for keeping deposits for stupid ungrounded reasons.

You can't do that

gimme5minutes · 21-03-2011 08:39AM

RoverJames wrote: »

You can't do that

Yeah, just like landlords can't withold deposits when a place has been left in perfect condition...oh wait, they can and they do it all the time.

I used my deposit as my last months rent it in the last two places and I will do it in every single place I rent in the future. You are a fool these days if you blindly trust a landlord to give back a deposit. I know a few people who have been robbed by landlords, and thats what it is - pure stealing - and you only have to do a search on this forum to see how many other people have gotten robbed. You can be sure none of these people in future will make the mistake of expecting to get their deposit back because they left a place in immaculate condition. And if the landlord screws you over, there are no guarantees you will get your money back with the ptrb.

21-03-2011 09:09AM

gimme5minutes wrote: »

bla bla bla lots of moronic muck

ok

robd · 21-03-2011 09:32AM

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Yeah, just like landlords can't withold deposits when a place has been left in perfect condition...oh wait, they can and they do it all the time.
...

It's proven to be a terrible area all right. Part of the program for government is to set up a rental bond agency to deal with the deposits. This is successful in other countries, such as Oz where I rented. Hopefully this will put the issue to bed once and for all for in a fair manner for both parties involved.

Also, if the bond agency puts it place a detailed checklist to be filled in before and after renting, which effectively controls what either side is responsible for, that would help too.

The PRRB has proven itself to be hopeless. The delays nullify it totally. Plus they can be ignored and the case can end in court anyway.

gimme5minutes · 21-03-2011 03:49PM

RoverJames wrote: »

ok

Happy to set you straight.

Johnny Derpp · 21-03-2011 07:58PM

robd wrote: »

The PRRB has proven itself to be hopeless. The delays nullify it totally. Plus they can be ignored and the case can end in court anyway.

That's not instilling me with confidence!

HerbSimpson · 21-03-2011 08:29PM

Sometimes the threat of going to the PTRB can make a landlord see sense. I'd send him a message saying something like "As the return of our deposit is in dispute I just wanted to inform you that I will be submitting a case to the PTRB" Sometimes this helps..

BostonB · 22-03-2011 04:35AM

All you do is wait for the PRTB to deal with it. They almost always order the landlord to give back the deposit.

gurramok · 22-03-2011 12:39PM

BostonB wrote: »

All you do is wait for the PRTB to deal with it. They almost always order the landlord to give back the deposit.

Do the landlords comply? Anyone here involved in such a case?

BostonB · 22-03-2011 01:10PM

The PRTB site lists all judgments. The majority of them seem to be decisions against the landlord to give back deposits. Or most of the deposit.

Johnny Derpp · 24-03-2011 07:42PM

Submitted my threat to the LL, shockingly he has agreed to pay me my deposit tomorrow.

Thanks for the input folks.

tanyabond · 25-03-2011 03:19PM

Johnny Derpp wrote: »

Submitted my threat to the LL, shockingly he has agreed to pay me my deposit tomorrow.

Thanks for the input folks.

Congrats:) That's shocking alright since he didn't even answer your messages.

edanto · 30-03-2011 07:09PM

Great result!! Here's hoping he paid you when he said he would. Did he?!

Do you want to post in exactly what you said to him, so that anyone that finds this thread in the future can copy you?

An Ri rua · 19-05-2011 06:43PM

I don't know why you all don't take the 'use deposit s last month's rent' maxim to heart?

I have already told my LL that he can inspect his house twice, even 3 times if he wants, but having trusted me for 11 months (and visiting (haunting) my home fortnightly and more to collect post and rent monthly), he can now trust me for the final month.

His other options are: -

A) Begin an eviction process, by which time the month will be up first

Unceremoniously evict me. And then he faces HEAVY penalties from PRTB plus civil damages claims.
C) Get heavy. Which would result in a stay in hospital for him as I always win every argument when I am morally right

Essentially folks, we all must learn to 'limit the downside' in everything we do. A 3rd party deposit holding body is ideal and I look forward to that progressive, egalitarian move. But, until then, obre les ojos and look after you and yours. If you are morally upstanding and a good tenant, then do not ALLOW yourself to be robbed. Because THAT is what happens. YOU allow it. Have less fear, have more confidence in your inalienable rights. The law is merely a safety net.

BostonB · 19-05-2011 06:55PM

One thing the PRTB does do it get it back most of the time for the tenants. So theres no longer any reason to be "robbed".

stripysocks85 · 20-05-2011 08:56PM

Am just [almost] finished a dispute case myself. Landlord help part of my deposit so I took a case. Determination order hasn't been issued just yet, as they are given their 21 days to appeal, which I doubt they will do. Thrilled. Money robbing baxtards

THANKS PRTB

odds_on · 20-05-2011 10:53PM

BostonB wrote: »

All you do is wait for the PRTB to deal with it. They almost always order the landlord to give back the deposit.

And often with damages to be paid to the tenant for with-holding all or part of the deposit UNJUSTIFIABLY.

BostonB · 20-05-2011 10:56PM

Or a partial refund if theres some justification.

damagegt · 20-05-2011 11:02PM

Sorry if this has been said as I didn't read all the tread.The deposit is legally never the landlords property.Any maintenance or outstanding bills even if you set the place on fire that have to be paid should be billed to you.Meaning when you leave your deposit should be returned to you and then you should be bill.This have happened a few times to me if he insists on not returning your money send him a solicitors letter and bill him for that too.

Johnny Derpp · 25-08-2011 12:31PM

edanto wrote: »

Great result!! Here's hoping he paid you when he said he would. Did he?!

Do you want to post in exactly what you said to him, so that anyone that finds this thread in the future can copy you?

He did!

I just told him that what he did was illeagal and told himthat if he didn't give me the money I would be pursuing legal avenues.

BostonB · 25-08-2011 01:17PM

damagegt wrote: »

Sorry if this has been said as I didn't read all the tread.The deposit is legally never the landlords property.Any maintenance or outstanding bills even if you set the place on fire that have to be paid should be billed to you.Meaning when you leave your deposit should be returned to you and then you should be bill.This have happened a few times to me if he insists on not returning your money send him a solicitors letter and bill him for that too.

What will the solicitors do, if your advice is to bypass the PRTB?

Whats the point of returning a deposit with bills outstanding?

mebird · 25-08-2011 01:42PM

stripysocks85 wrote: »

Am just [almost] finished a dispute case myself. Landlord help part of my deposit so I took a case. Determination order hasn't been issued just yet, as they are given their 21 days to appeal, which I doubt they will do. Thrilled. Money robbing baxtards THANKS PRTB

Don't thank the PRTB.

If the PRTB did not exist it would be of no social consequence whatsoever. Without it, you would just use the small claims court.

Now it is more complicated ... if the landlord ignores the 'Determination Order'.... you will end up in small claims / district court anyway ( the PRTB will not take the case for you ).

A stenographer, three person tribunal and offices on O'Connell Street ... all for a dispute over a set of curtains.

Arse.

BostonB · 25-08-2011 01:56PM

mebird wrote: »

D...... all for a dispute over a set of curtains.

Pull yourself together...:o

mebird · 25-08-2011 02:14PM

BostonB wrote: »

Pull yourself together...:o

lol.

On a serious note though, most disputes dealt with by the PRTB concern curtains, the couch, and as a result the security deposit, ....I know this is off topic but I wonder how much it costs the tax payer to keep this show on the road ? Stab in the dark says at least €10 million ( formula used is similar sized organisation in the private sector X 10 ... sorry, don't want to open that pub / priv can ... on a rant here

)

Do we really need a tribunal / dispute resolution service for every sector in the economy ?

BostonB · 25-08-2011 03:33PM

I think the idea was to take it out of the courts, small courts?

mebird · 25-08-2011 03:46PM

BostonB wrote: »

I think the idea was to take it out of the courts, small courts?

If it was the idea... it doesn't really work.

Just pulled the report for 2009 ... they made 922 determination orders and there is no telling how many of those had to be referred to the Circuit Court anyway !

BostonB · 25-08-2011 03:57PM

Well theres no way of knowing. They seem to be very understaffed, or not automated.

Doesn't really work for tenants or LLs.

StillWaters · 25-08-2011 06:23PM

As well as providing an avenue for Tenants against rogue Landlords, the PRTB also get Landlords registered so that their income is declared to Revenue, and properties liable for Capital Gains Tax.

As Quangos go, I'd say it provides value for money to the State.

mebird · 25-08-2011 09:41PM

StillWaters wrote: »

As well as providing an avenue for Tenants against rogue Landlords, the PRTB also get Landlords registered so that their income is declared to Revenue, and properties liable for Capital Gains Tax.

As Quangos go, I'd say it provides value for money to the State.

I totally disagree.. and here is why :

- PRTB have prosecuted four landlords since 2004 for not registering a tenancy. Four. That is not even one a year.

- There is no tenancy register. Yep, none. Every registration since 2004 went into a box or at best a basic database that cannot be cross referenced with Revenue's. I would be fairly certain of this because
a) Four prosecutions in 7 years
b) They only published a tender for registration system and database in the past two years
c) If there was a meaningful tenancy register, the PRTB would be able to publish statistics on rentals levels... or any statistics at all
d) they only had an online registration system since 2010.

- They made 922 determinations in one year... probably about security deposits ... In the absence of their service, these could have been made by the 24 small claims courts around the country ( 38 each ).

So, four landlords prosecuted in 7 years and a handful of disputes removed from the courts each year, no tenancy register and no statistics or public information service.... and how much do they spend per annum ....

9 million euro.

That is every single registration fee plus some more money from the State. I would suggest state funding has been removed which is why they increased their fees Jan 11.

I would love to see that Quango go go go.

quietsailor · 28-08-2011 05:41PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

I don't know why you all don't take the 'use deposit s last month's rent' maxim to heart?

Because the landlords (and I include myself in that group even though in the last year I've been [Deep breath Landlord, Tenant, Owner Occupier] are now starting to use 2 months rent as deposit. Simple as that. All your going to do by refusing to pay the last months rent is to push the Irish market towards the continental model;

The following are all nearly the first link in a simple google search using "xxxCountry Name deposit on a house". The angloinfo ones seem to be advice for tenants from tenants.
Germany Scroll down until you see the word deposit but the rest makes interesting reading too.
France Click on 13.1 Rental/Damage Deposit - it mentions not paying a deposit for unfurnished rentals or a months deposit for furnished rentals *** It also talks about 2 months rent in advance***
ItalyRead the first paragraph; "Provided rent isn't paid in advance at any more than two monthly intervals, the landlord can ask for a deposit equal to one to three months rent"

An Ri rua wrote: »

Essentially folks, we all must learn to 'limit the downside' in everything we do. A 3rd party deposit holding body is ideal and I look forward to that progressive, egalitarian move. But, until then, obre les ojos and look after you and yours. If you are morally upstanding and a good tenant, then do not ALLOW yourself to be robbed. Because THAT is what happens. YOU allow it. Have less fear, have more confidence in your inalienable rights. The law is merely a safety net.

Couldn't agree more with the part highlighted in bold. I've never refused to return a deposit except;

where bills were unpaid and we agreed to use the deposit for paying it.
Rubbish was left in the house and I rented a skip to clear it.

Landlord Witholding Deposit, How Do I Fight It?

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