Becoming a Pilot (weighing up my options)

Batman182 · 13-09-2011 12:18PM #1

Hi All,

I’ve been reading bit of the various threads on the subject, but thought I would ask some advice on my particular situation.

I’m 27 living in Dublin, currently working in a Finance type job, and would like to finally pursue (better late than never) my dream of becoming an airline pilot.

I unfortunately missed the recent Aer Lingus Cadet programme, and I’m due to go see a presentation by the Pilot training College in Dublin in Oct .

I’m finding it very frustrating at the minute as I’m trying to work out the best route to a pilot job that’s right for me.
My concerns are the following.

1. Will the Aer Lingus Cadet programme run next year?
2. I have a Higher Level D in Maths, is this enough for Aer Lingus?
3. I have no 3rd level qualification is one needed?
4. Does the Cadet programme pay a wage from the get go (I have a daughter I need to provide for)
5. I’ve read a lot of bad press about PTC, should I avoid them, if so who else could help me.
6. If the Aer Lingus programme is a no go, I feel my best option would be to train part time (called modular I believe) so that I can work in my current job while training, thus allowing me to self fund my training and provide for my daughter) Are there any other options out there for me?

Thanks in advance

chewits · 13-09-2011 01:05PM

Dear Batman,

You seem like a lad with your head screwed on.

There are no guarantees that EI will run a Cadetship next year. Also if you are aware of EI's fiances you should be known that the "cadet" will be expected to pay for his/her training his/her self. However this has not been finalised yet but is a very intelligent assumption to make. The cadetship will also be unpaid and the "job" after the 14-16 odd months of your training will all depend on your performance. 90+% first time passes etc.

So want i want to say is don't get your knickers in a twist and throw every egg you have in the cadetship basket.

If you want to be a pilot you will need to go through an intergrated course or modular course.

Intergrated course will set you back around 100,000euro. Modular, depending on how you pay it could be paid for in 60,000euro . Both will give you the exact same ticket at the end of it.

However most airlines are more inclined to take the intergrated students. However they are exceptions.

Flybe will take on modular students but flying turboprops won't exactly make you your millions. You would probably earn a higher salary in your finance job.

So my advice Batman, is this, do not gamble with your future, especially if you have a young child to care for. If you enjoy the thought of flying get involved in a flying club and get yourself a PPL.

Hope i helped.

bladeruner · 13-09-2011 01:30PM

As regards your daughter , don't presume you will be based in Ireland, so hope you are able to up sticks and move regardless of where you get your start in aviation.

xflyer · 13-09-2011 02:15PM

However most airlines are more inclined to take the intergrated students. However they are exceptions.

Not true, some airlines, notably Aer Lingus and BA prefer integrated graduates and even then only certain schools. Most don't care much if at all. Even then that only arises newly qualified pilots. For direct entry experienced pilots, it's not a factor.

But training full time whether modular or integrated is the best way of getting trained.

As for the questions:

1. Don't depend on it. When I was in school, they recruited every year. They year I left they didn't. It's a lottery.

2. I don't know

3. No, there are no educational requirements to be a pilot. Other than airline specific. Certainly no requirement for third level.

4. I think they might pay an allowance. But as you're paying for your training anyway. Effectively it's your money. But you won't be able to support your daughter on it.

5. PTC will train you to be a pilot. They are masters of hype though and expensive for what they provide.

6. Yes that is probably your only option. But as I said full time is best. But if you are going modular, try and be consistent with your training. Stick to one school and set yourself targets. Six month gaps are not helpful. You really need a consistent supply of money to keep the momentum going. You will also have to set aside several weeks at a time for training. For example training for the Instrument rating really needs to be done full time. That could mean a month or more full time flying. Will you get time off work for that. Exams too need a serious amount of effort and even with distance learning there is a requirement several weeks of full time study.

It's hard going with a full time job and a family. It is doable though.

Word of warning. I know someone a bit like you, with a family. Did an integrated course in Spain, (not recommended, other than FTE). That took over a year away from home. When he did get a job it was in Turkey and he paid for his own rating. Ryanair will base you abroad initially. You may get a home base or you may not. It's the same with many airlines even Aer Lingus.

Assuming you even get a job.

GoGoGadget · 13-09-2011 04:07PM

Some very good advice there.

To add to that I would recommend getting yourself a class 1 medical before you start paying big money out on training.

It's quite a bit of money at about €650 with the IAA but this will last for about 5 years as a class 2 medical which is what is needed to keep your PPL current. Also, it gives you peace of mind that a career in aviation is going to be possible.

There are plenty of arguments over integrated and modular routes. The way I see it with modular you can not only do it for €40k cheaper but you can work through the majority of your training, not easy but very doable, enabling you to keep saving while you train.

Jobs are scarce now so there's no rush, get a class 1 medical, do your PPL, enjoy flying (and building hours) and reassess your situation.

Maybe Aer Lingus will recruit again next year, no one knows, but if they do you'll have a head start with your PPL.

Batman182 · 13-09-2011 08:35PM

Thanks for the replies Gents, even if some of them do kick my dreams in the nuts

Just a couple of follow on question based on your responses.

1. If someone opts for Integrated full time training and get a loan off approx €100k or whatever it ius, how do most people afford to pay this back while training (and not working) do they defer the repayments?

2. Besides PTC are there any other school options to do modular training with, given i'm based in Dublin?

3. Am I right in saying that if i went to the likes of PTC and paid the €100K for their All Inclusive Modular Airline Programme, and passed all the exams etc, I would have the following
JAA Private Pilots Licence (PPL) and hours building done
JAA ATPL Theoretical Knowledge Exams (JAA ATPL TK) = Frozen ATPL Licence?
JAA Commercial Pilot’s Licence (CPL)

4. Regarding being based abroad, I only get to see my daughter on the weekends unfortunatly so it won't be like i'd be missing the week days with her etc. Do a lot of pilots based abroad fly home on their days off? and do the pilots based abroad have a house their or do they just stay in a hotel etc while on duty?

Thanks again

Cessna_Pilot · 13-09-2011 09:11PM

Atlantic Flight Training in Cork. if you're serious about a career on the flightdeck there is no other school in Ireland worth trusting your money and future career with.

Stovepipe · 13-09-2011 09:25PM

Hi all,
I saw something about West Atlantic (cargo ATPs) starting a new cadet scheme. If it's anything like the old Air Atlantique scheme, it's worth a shot.

regards
Stovepipe

Batman182 · 13-09-2011 09:46PM

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Atlantic Flight Training in Cork. if you're serious about a career on the flightdeck there is no other school in Ireland worth trusting your money and future career with.

I've had a look at their website, they don't seem as user friendly to the want to be pilot who has to work to fund his training, is this the case, or do they offer modular/part time training, getting down to cork all the time could be tricky.

GoGoGadget · 13-09-2011 10:30PM

NFC are a good outfit, I did my PPL there and live in Dublin like yourself so it's not much of a trek. They started up an integrated course too and it looks quite cheap, around €65k but I'm sure there's additional costs onto that, IAA fees etc, worth a look if you're still looking at integrated.

Although if I were to do it again I would have gone to the states to do my PPL as it's a lot cheaper and quicker and the instruction is good too depending where you go. You could get it done in a month, plenty of lads even do it in 3 weeks!

xflyer · 14-09-2011 12:20PM

1. If someone opts for Integrated full time training and get a loan off approx €100k or whatever it ius, how do most people afford to pay this back while training (and not working) do they defer the repayments?

That's up to the lender. Given the current economic circumstances, it may not be an option. As for paying back, the answer is that it's a struggle for some. Bear in mind too that you have to continue to pay back money and maintain currency while wating for the job.

2. Besides PTC are there any other school options to do modular training with, given i'm based in Dublin?

National Flight Centre. I know others recommend Cork etc but if you're based in Dublin there's no point travelling all the way to Cork or Waterford.

3. Am I right in saying that if i went to the likes of PTC and paid the €100K

You'd have wasted at least €40k.

You can kiss goodbye to many of your weekends, also things like family events holidays etc. Pilots based abroad often commute back and forth. You have to find somewhere to stay yourself with most airlines, particularly Ryanair. Others put you up in hotels down the line but not at your base. That's your problem.

alexio · 19-09-2011 04:32AM

hello,
I found a school in spain called Ibertour, that offers frozen ATPL from 34,995 and 39,995 including accommodation for 1 yr and a half. It looks that offers almost everything . Does anyone know/ heard anything about it?
Would be much better to do the training in Ireland or Spain/Florida??

Check out the link
http://www.ibertour.com/en/cursos/atpl-piloto-de-lineas-aereas

xflyer · 19-09-2011 02:37PM

No nothing about them but be careful of Spanish flight schools. One or two of them have a very poor reputation. There have been some horror stories. Beware of the old saying. If it looks too good to be true. It probably is.

alexio · 21-09-2011 10:09PM

i got this reply from the ibertour.
does anyone have any opinions about it??:D

Thank you for your interest in Ibertour International Aviation.

The cost of 39995 € includes the ATPL (A) modular course and accommodation for 18 months.

Apartments are brand new, 3 bedrooms. Each student will have an individual bedroom. Students share with 2 other students: Living room, kitchen and 2 bath rooms. All utilities are included. TV and Internet are also included.

The theory exams, skill tests, medical expenses and landing fees outside of Girona Airport are not included in the total price. Why?

- Theory exams: Prices depending on pass/fail. Official prices.
o The initial cost for all exams is 630 € (ATPL). Each retake is 70 €. PPL theory exams are included.
- Skill tests (flight exams): Prices depending on pass/fail. Official prices.
o 200 € for each flight exam. There are a total of 3 exams for the entire course.
- Medical exam: Some students want to do their medical exam in their own country prior to arrival. Official prices.
o Prices vary from country to country.
- Landing fees outside Girona Airport: Students decide themselves where they want to fly. Prices vary from airport to airport. Official prices.
o Most of the landing fees are included in the total price. But if students want to fly to a specific airport, landing fees might vary from the normal fee.

The total price - all included - will be around 41000 € - 42000 €.

We also have two different packages to include everything you need for your entire training, excluding what mentioned above.
1. The first package includes ALL materials: Books, Jepp Nav, maps, flight bag, all necessary equipment for ground school (CRP-5, plotter etc.), fuel drainer, headset ++. The price for this package is 1470 €.
2. The second package is the same as the first one, but without headset. Price for this package is 1280 €.
3. Students can also buy materials individually.

At Ibertour we use allmaterials from Jeppesen.

We have two different payment options at Ibertour.
1. First option is to pay everything in advance.
2. Second option is the financial option. This optionconsist of the following:
a. 10%of the total price on the first day of school.
b. 17 equal payments for 17 months + 5%.

If you prefer, we can guarantee a price of 43995 € the entire course with everything included. Price is depending on first time passes on exams in 18 months. Weoperate with full honesty; there will be NO hidden fees.

All classes is in english and we have international instructors.

Next course start for 2011:

- 28th of November

Course start dates for 2012:
- 27th of February
- 4th of June
- 3rd of September
- 26th of November

If you have any other questions, do not hesitate to contact us!

Best regards,

Ibertour FTO

Cessna_Pilot · 21-09-2011 10:25PM

In my own personal experience I have yet to meet a pilot who has trained at a Spanish FTO other than FTE in Jerez, and ended up with an airline job.

I had an instructor once many years ago who had done his IR in Spain, I seem to remember him telling me he paid just over 6k for it at some shoddy cheap as peanuts school. He couldn't fly an ILS if his life depended on it.

Becoming a Pilot (weighing up my options)

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