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Trinity invite BNP leader Nick Griffin over for debate on immigration

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Comments

  • #32
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Trinity are about as Unionist as Mr Griffin

    I sincerely hope that you are not indicative of the current intellectual fibre of Republicanism in this country.

    Or actually, maybe I am.


  • #33
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Sounds like a move to generate controversy around the debate, and basically to get people to go to it.


  • #34
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Its simply an attempt, as you can see in his reply, to derail this thread into a SF bashing exercise.

    You occupy the two opposite poles of an idealogical position and as such he could possibly view a lot of your posts as bashing his views.

    Maybe both your views need equal bashing.:pac:

    Personally I would oppose a Loyalist/SF/NF rally in Catholic/Protestant/Ethnic areas but I would always allow them to debate - espcially in the rarified atmosphere of a uni where you are hardly dealing with people directly involved with the areas that these guys operate within in real life.

    Not something I would have agreed with when younger (I turned out against Irving in TCD) but I'm older now.


  • #35
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    Sounds like a move to generate controversy around the debate, and basically to get people to go to it.

    Well done Sherlock, well done.

    Nothing personal now.


  • #36
    Chris P. Bacon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭Chris P. Bacon


    Has he even accepted the invitation?


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  • #37
    The Scientician
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭The Scientician


    stovelid wrote: »
    It's not a bad point even if he's got a loyalist axe to grind.

    You're opposing a platform for Griffin on idealogical lines that have as much subjective basis as, say, innocent victims of IRA violence would have had about denying SF a platform during the Troubles.

    Except that republicanism isn't inherently reprehensible in the way the ideology of Griffin's party should be to any rightminded individual here or in Britain.

    Of course the actions of some in Sinn Féin in the name of their ideology have been reprehensible in extremis.


  • #38
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »

    Hopefully he will end up and people will see through his "I'm not a bad guy" act.

    Remind you of anyone we know?

    :rolleyes:


  • #39
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Its simply an attempt, as you can see in his reply, to derail this thread into a SF bashing exercise.

    "much worse people in SF" Tell me thats not an attempt to derail the thread.

    I'm not opposing, I was asking if people think its right, sure I said in my first post that I feel its OK as long as he isn't given an easy ride.
    Not at all. Ok, put SF to the side. Surely other parties you might disagree with have held a discussion at trinity before. So what is the big deal with Nick Griffin doing it?

    You might not agree with him but surely he is entitled to speak if invited?


  • #40
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    crucamim wrote: »
    ...Be nice to Nick as he might one day be Prime Minister of the UK.
    Himmm Honestly - can't see it happening.


  • #41
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Subscribes to thread.


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  • #42
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Not at all. Ok, put SF to the side. Surely other parties you might disagree with have held a discussion at trinity before. So what is the big deal with Nick Griffin doing it?

    You might not agree with him but surely he is entitled to speak if invited?
    Keith, I said my first post that its grand as long as he doesn't get an easy ride at the debate, for instance I wasn't against his appearance on Question Time.

    I was just curious if the people of AH felt trinity were right to invite him to their debate and give him a platform.


  • #43
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    stovelid wrote: »
    You occupy the two opposite poles of an idealogical position and as such he could possibly view a lot of your posts as bashing his views.

    Maybe both your views need equal bashing.:pac:

    Personally I would oppose a Loyalist/SF/NF rally in Catholic/Protestant/Ethnic areas but I would always allow them to debate - espcially in the rarified atmosphere of a uni where you are hardly dealing with people directly involved with the areas that these guys operate within in real life.

    Not something I would have agreed with when younger (I turned out against Irving in TCD) but I'm older now.

    Irving?:confused:


    Who was this guy?


  • #44
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Irving?:confused:


    Who was this guy?
    I presume the holocaust denier.


  • #45
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Keith, I said my first post that its grand as long as he doesn't get an easy ride at the debate, for instance I wasn't against his appearance on Question Time.

    I was just curious if the people of AH felt trinity were right to invite him to their debate and give him a platform.
    I doubt he will. But Question Time wasn't a good sign of a debate either. It just had audience members heckling him and even one insulting him.


  • #46
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I doubt he will. But Question Time wasn't a good sign of a debate either. It just had audience members heckling him and even one insulting him.
    It was more than that tbf


  • #47
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Out of interest who is invited to be his opponent?

    Presumably someone from the far left, I would guess.


  • #48
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I doubt he will. But Question Time wasn't a good sign of a debate either. It just had audience members heckling him and even one insulting him.

    Question Time is not the programme to watch should you want questions and debating between a panel and an audience who represent society proportionally. People who have extreme, almost delusional views and ideals are those who make up a fairly hefty amount of the audience. Many I know don't bother watching it because it is such a ridiculous and anger inducing programme. Nick Griffin held his own on his appearance anyway, on a programme aimed at humiliating the BNP (which it didn't) instead of hearing the views and opinions of panel members on topical issues.

    Anyway, opinion polls now show that over 80% of British people believe immigration has gone too far. It is only now that people are realising that if anything is to be done about it, more extreme parties will be those who create the pressure and the prolonged exposure needed to see things through. This is why parties such as UKIP and the BNP are on the rise.


  • #49
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Keith, I said my first post that its grand as long as he doesn't get an easy ride at the debate, for instance I wasn't against his appearance on Question Time.

    Oh, very good of you. Are you a BBC licence payer then?


  • #50
    crucamim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Boards is run by loyalist mods, they are hardly going to punish him.

    Thank you for that information. I had suspected that most of the Mods are anti-Catholics but I never suspected that they were Ulster Protestants.


  • #51
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Question Time is not the programme to watch should you want questions and debating between a panel and an audience who represent society proportionally. People who have extreme, almost delusional views and ideals are those who make up a fairly hefty amount of the audience. Many I know don't bother watching it because it is such a ridiculous and anger inducing programme. Nick Griffin held his own on his appearance anyway, on a programme aimed at humiliating the BNP (which it didn't) instead of hearing the views and opinions of panel members on topical issues.

    Anyway, opinion polls now show that over 80% of British people believe immigration has gone too far. It is only now that people are realising that if anything is to be done about it, more extreme parties will be those who create the pressure and the prolonged exposure needed to see things through. This is why parties such as UKIP and the BNP are on the rise.
    I thought he was thoroughly humiliated. Are you a fan of Griffin?


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  • #52
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    super-rush wrote: »
    Subscribes to thread.


    +1


  • #53
    crucamim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    problemchimp wrote: »
    You're a funny bloke, love the sarcasm. I bet a lot of people thought you were serious, but they just don't get good humour.

    I am not funny. I disapprove of fun. I am an Ulster Catholic.


  • #54
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Question Time is not the programme to watch should you want questions and debating between a panel and an audience who represent society proportionally. People who have extreme, almost delusional views and ideals are those who make up a fairly hefty amount of the audience. Many I know don't bother watching it because it is such a ridiculous and anger inducing programme. Nick Griffin held his own on his appearance anyway, on a programme aimed at humiliating the BNP (which it didn't) instead of hearing the views and opinions of panel members on topical issues.

    Anyway, opinion polls now show that over 80% of British people believe immigration has gone too far. It is only now that people are realising that if anything is to be done about it, more extreme parties will be those who create the pressure and the prolonged exposure needed to see things through. This is why parties such as UKIP and the BNP are on the rise.
    A lot of the British people have wanted this discussion brought up for years and a proper debate on it. But if you say you are British these days and fly your own flag in your own country, you get shouted at. Weird world we live in now.


  • #55
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    ItsAWindUp wrote: »
    Bit ridiculous having a debate without inviting two sides of the argument.

    A lock of blacks?


  • #56
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    crucamim wrote: »
    I am not funny. I disapprove of fun. I am an Ulster Catholic.
    If I was a betting man I would bet that you are a caricature of what the most bigoted loyalist thinks all republicans and Irishmen are like.


    You are the guy who over on politics who said that the IRA should have been called the catholic protection force or something equally ridiculous right?


  • #57
    gargleblaster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭gargleblaster


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Anyway, opinion polls now show that over 80% of British people believe immigration has gone too far. It is only now that people are realising that if anything is to be done about it, more extreme parties will be those who create the pressure and the prolonged exposure needed to see things through. This is why parties such as UKIP and the BNP are on the rise.

    Doesn't resentment of or hostility towards immigrants usually rise during recessions? Not sure, but the economic climate might also play a part in swelling the ranks of more extremist political parties.


  • #58
    The Scientician
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭The Scientician


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    A lot of the British people have wanted this discussion brought up for years and a proper debate on it. But if you say you are British these days and fly your own flag in your own country, you get shouted at. Weird world we live in now.

    I doubt people in Britain get grief for flying the British flag or saying their British. It's only in Norn Iron that there's an issue. :)

    There is a whole spectrum of taught on migration that is interesting to debate but Griffin represents the most reprehensible (and least debate worthy) extreme of one end of that spectrum. Espousing the end to immigration or zero immigration, while not things I agree with, differ a lot from BNP policies such as "repatriation" of non-white people, many of whose parents or even grandparents were born in Britain. Griffin and his ilk have no sound social or economic basis for their opposition to immigration and immigrants, instead the BNP complains that Britain is full up and the whites are being diluted and outbred.


  • #59
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    I thought he was thoroughly humiliated
    I don't know how you read it like that? :confused: I thought there were some similarities with Gerry Adams first appearance on the late late show a few years ago. Both were brought on for the sole purpose of ambushing them and both failed.

    The way to deal with anyone whose views you find objectionable is to calmly and clearly spell out your objections. Both ambush parties failed miserably in these two cases.


  • #60
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    I thought he was thoroughly humiliated. Are you a fan of Griffin?

    Well, we can agree to disagree on that part. Interesting that you watched it anyway, I wouldnt think someone with such a dislike of Britain as you have would be too fussed with British internal affairs.

    In response to your question, not particularly. I think there is a great deal of naivety and inexperience in the BNP and a number of views I disagree with however I am part of the 4/5 of society who think immigration has gone to far and I fundamentally agree with their views on that issue. Non EU immigration needs to be stopped. And fast.


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  • #61
    crucamim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    If I was a betting man I would bet that you are a caricature of what the most bigoted loyalist thinks all republicans and Irishmen are like.


    You are the guy who over on politics who said that the IRA should have been called the catholic protection force or something equally ridiculous right?

    What does it matter what our enemies think about us?


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