Trinity invite BNP leader Nick Griffin over for debate on immigration

Wolfe Tone · 14-09-2011 07:00PM

lugha wrote: »

I don't know how you read it like that? I thought there were some similarities with Gerry Adams first appearance on the late late show a few years ago. Both were brought on for the sole purpose of ambushing them and both failed.

The way to deal with anyone whose views you find objectionable is to calmly and clearly spell out your objections. Both ambush parties failed miserably in these two cases.

All he did was sweat, squirm and look thoroughly ridiculous as he tried to explain away his appearance at a KKK event as trying to save the gullible youth attending said event.

I wouldn't compare it to Adams appearance at all, leagues apart in every way except as you said, both were set up as ambushes.

Few years ago? Showing your age there, that was in the early nineties?

crucamim · 14-09-2011 07:03PM

I find it strange that so many Eirefolk are getting so worked up about the immigration policies of the UK. Have these Eirefolk forgotten that the left the UK in 1921? It is especially surprising that the Eirefolk getting most excited about the issue are the hardline nationalists.

My only problem about Nick Griffin is that I am on the same side as Keith who is a most outspoken enemy of us Ulster Catholics. It is rather like Stalin and Churchill being on the same side in the second world war.

Micky Dolenz · 14-09-2011 07:06PM

crucamim wrote: »

I find it strange that so many Eirefolk are getting so worked up about the immigration policies of the UK. Have these Eirefolk forgotten that the left the UK in 1921? It is especially surprising that the Eirefolk getting most excited about the issue are the hardline nationalists.

My only problem about Nick Griffin is that I am on the same side as Keith who is a most outspoken enemy of us Ulster Catholics. It is rather like Stalin and Churchill being on the same side in the second world war.

What's an Eirefolk and how many is "so many" ?

Wolfe Tone · 14-09-2011 07:07PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Well, we can agree to disagree on that part. Interesting that you watched it anyway, I wouldnt think someone with such a dislike of Britain as you have would be too fussed with British internal affairs.

In response to your question, not particularly. I think there is a great deal of naivety and inexperience in the BNP and a number of views I disagree with however I am part of the 4/5 of society who think immigration has gone to far and I fundamentally agree with their views on that issue. Non EU immigration needs to be stopped. And fast.

Why wouldn't I be interested when London still has the ultimate say in the north?

Anyway I have an interest in politics regardless, I try to keep up with whats going on in the US too, hardly a crime is it?

Your main objection to the BNP is that they are naive and inexperienced?

LondonIrish90 · 14-09-2011 07:11PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Why wouldn't I be interested when London still has the ultimate say in the north?

Anyway I have an interest in politics regardless, I try to keep up with whats going on in the US too, hardly a crime is it?

Your only objection to the BNP is that they are naive and inexperienced?

:D Your last line. No quite what I said, was it?

Wolfe Tone · 14-09-2011 07:13PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

:D Your last line. No quite what I said, was it?

You were too quick for my ninja edit

You did gloss over it however, you agree with them on immigration? How Britain has been ethnically cleansed?

Cicero · 14-09-2011 07:14PM

I imagine it's more a case of walking into the Lions den...I think he will be the one mauled to be honest....if Trinitys record of good debating is anything to go by.

discus · 14-09-2011 07:15PM

crucamim wrote: »

I find it strange that so many Eirefolk are getting so worked up about the immigration policies of the UK. Have these Eirefolk forgotten that the left the UK in 1921? It is especially surprising that the Eirefolk getting most excited about the issue are the hardline nationalists.

The UK and the republic have no borders as such. So if illegals get into either, they can enter the other.

Dionysus · 14-09-2011 07:15PM

Morlar wrote: »

Free speech isn't just for people you approve of. So my vote is yes.

Exactly, Morlar. Great to see Trinners has finally embraced that free speech stuff, what with that minor matter of expelling Irish republicans, like this fella, throughout the centuries for believing in mad ideas like an Ireland free from British rule.

FlutterinBantam · 14-09-2011 07:19PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Exactly, Morlar. Great to see Trinners has finally embraced that free speech stuff, what with that minor matter of expelling Irish republicans, like this fella, throughout the centuries for believing in mad ideas like an Ireland free from British rule.

Jeez man, get over it.:rolleyes:

LondonIrish90 · 14-09-2011 07:19PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

You were too quick for my ninja edit

You did gloss over it however, you agree with them on immigration? How Britain has been ethnically cleansed?

In essence, yes. I agree that there is no English identity due to the governments of the past 10 to 15 years. It is something that needs to be reinvented before it is completely diluted. I do not believe that Britain and more specifically England can take any more immigration or the country that existed for centuries up until maybe 20 years ago will have been lost forever.

It doesn't help when politicians such as Jack Straw and John Prescott have both in the past dismissed the idea of an English identity and passed of a group of maybe 40 million English (excluding non ethnic whites) as thugs and hooligans. People have been pushed away from the mainstream, not pulled towards the extreme.

Eric Cartman · 14-09-2011 07:38PM

In reality Nick Griffin , while his views are even a bit too right wing for me sometimes , Has never been given a fair shot , even that episode of frontline on BBC was just a calculated attack on him and he was not given fair time to state his case.

While im sure the looney left will come up with crazy points, and probably a protest or 2 , I really think Mr Griffin should be welcomed in to trinity and allowed to fairly state his case without interruption. I would be very interested to hear what he has to say from his actual point of view, so far not even the BBC has granted him this. We only hear what the lefty groups and left-indie media has to say about him.

If I could go to see this debate I would. I agree with maybee 10% of what he supposedly preaches, and immigration is a severe problem affecting all of europe. I only hope he can be given a fair debate and not just shouted down and called a racist.

Nodin · 14-09-2011 07:39PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The trinners have invited him over for a debate titled "This house believes immigration has gone too far"

What do you guys think about this? In my opinion the man is a complete fascist lowlife, a racist, an anti Semite and a general all round scumbag.

He is. But sure if Myers can have a newspaper column, a nazi can pop over for a visit. Its important to be consistent after all.

Kevin Duffy · 14-09-2011 07:44PM

crucamim wrote: »

Nick is a great man - a man who, despite his priviliged upbringing and first class education, has not turned his back on the working class members of England's native race.

Be nice to Nick as he might one day be Prime Minister of the UK.

He's supporting the Celts? Jaysis, not a big constituency these days.

LondonIrish90 · 14-09-2011 07:51PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

He's supporting the Celts? Jaysis, not a big constituency these days.

I believe you will find that it was the Anglo-Saxons who created the first ever properly defined nation state we used to know as England. Of course, Celts were around in Britain before them but the Anglo-Saxons were the first English people.

NSNO · 14-09-2011 07:54PM

Mentioning the Brits/IRA/Sinn Fein/Unionism/Protestants/Catholics etc. is quickly becoming the Boards version of Godwinning a thread.

Kevin Duffy · 14-09-2011 08:00PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I believe you will find that it was the Anglo-Saxons who created the first ever properly defined nation state we used to know as England. Of course, Celts were around in Britain before them but the Anglo-Saxons were the first English people.

You believe I'll find, do you? You're great, thanks.

Anyway, he said "native", not, "the first ever properly defined nation state". If he wants "native", you can't just pick an abitrary point in history and say whoever was there at that point = native. There were people there long before the Anglo-Saxons and plenty of other groups there at the same time.

LondonIrish90 · 14-09-2011 08:08PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

You believe I'll find, do you? You're great, thanks.

Anyway, he said "native", not, "the first ever properly defined nation state". If he wants "native", you can't just pick an abitrary point in history and say whoever was there at that point = native. There were people there long before the Anglo-Saxons and plenty of other groups there at the same time.

Yes, but England as people would recognise it today was forged by the early state building of the Anglo-Saxons. Celtic people cannot be recognised as the original English people if during their dominance of large parts of the island of GB England did not actually exist. The Anglo-Saxons are the first group who can be defined as an English people.

Dionysus · 14-09-2011 08:14PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Jeez man, get over it.:rolleyes:

After you, son.

Kevin Duffy · 14-09-2011 08:15PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Yes, but England as people would recognise it today was forged by the early state building of the Anglo-Saxons. Celtic people cannot be recognised as the original English people if during their dominance of large parts of the island of GB England did not actually exist. The Anglo-Saxons are the first group who can be defined as an English people.

If you accept that, then you'll have to accept that everyone native to that state, including British born Muslims (for example), is "native English", so clearly Nick Griffin doesn't have the best interests of the all "native English" at heart, as the poster I was addressing said. I daresay his supporters would be best described by the title "bigots who think, look and sound enough like me that I don't find them too ojectionable".

Dionysus · 14-09-2011 08:16PM

Nodin wrote: »

He is. But sure if Myers can have a newspaper column, a nazi can pop over for a visit. Its important to be consistent after all.

Now, Nodin.

Without being too fair to Griffin, is there evidence he had/has Nazi sympathies? The Royal British Legion, which organises that British poppy day nonsense, on the other hand is clearly recorded as being supportive of Nazi Germany and in even organising British people to fight for the Nazis in their invasion of the Sudetenland - not that this indisputable historical fact is publicised in Britain.

Likewise, many, many members of the British nobility and royal family supported Nazi Germany in the 1930s. And many other British people joined the "British Free Corps" of the Nazis. These are well-documented, even though British nationalists get very, very, very, very annoyed when they are brought up.

But is Griffin on record as being supportive of the Nazis? I have no doubt that his predecessor in 1930s Britain, Oswald Mosley, was supportive of Nazi Germany - but is Griffin himself?

Ally Dick · 14-09-2011 08:18PM

I hope they invite Darkus Howe to debate with Nick Griffin. That'd be a ding dong battle !

ejmaztec · 14-09-2011 08:22PM

Mainstream UK politicians are too scared to talk about immigration, so Nick Griffin is taking advantage of their reluctance. Enoch Powell, all those years ago, tried to put immigration discussion on a proper footing, and ended up marked for life. I don't recall any other politician from any main UK party trying it since.

Nodin · 14-09-2011 08:27PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Now, Nodin. Without being too fair to Griffin, is there evidence he had/has Nazi sympathies? The Royal British Legion, which organises that British poppy day nonsense, on the other hand is clearly recorded as being supportive of Nazi Germany and in even organising British people to fight for the Nazis in their invasion of the Sudetenland - not that this indisputable historical fact is publicised in Britain.

Likewise, many, many members of the British nobility and royal family supported Nazi Germany in the 1930s. And many other British people joined the "British Free Corps" of the Nazis. These are well-documented, even though British nationalists get very, very, very, very annoyed when they are brought up.

But is Griffin on record as being supportive of the Nazis? I have no doubt that his predecessor in 1930s Britain, Oswald Mosley, was supportive of Nazi Germany - but is Griffin himself?

Well......

Between 1995 and 1997, Nick Griffin edited 'The Rune'. Griffin referred to the Holocaust as a "Holohoax".
In 1998 Nick Griffin said, "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also also once held that the Earth was flat... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."

not to mention....

In 1997, Nick Griffin published a booklet entitled "Who are the Mind Benders?". It claimed to prove that Jewish people controlled the British media and thereby were able to brainwash white British people into accepting multiculturalism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/the_leader/beliefs.stm

LondonIrish90 · 14-09-2011 08:36PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Now, Nodin. Without being too fair to Griffin, is there evidence he had/has Nazi sympathies? The Royal British Legion, which organises that British poppy day nonsense, on the other hand is clearly recorded as being supportive of Nazi Germany and in even organising British people to fight for the Nazis in their invasion of the Sudetenland - not that this indisputable historical fact is publicised in Britain.

What have you got against giving back and paying respects to those who died in the name of freedom? Is it just because its a British tradition or are you also against "that easter lily nonsense"?

mattjack · 14-09-2011 08:48PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Now, Nodin. Without being too fair to Griffin, is there evidence he had/has Nazi sympathies? The Royal British Legion, which organises that British poppy day nonsense, on the other hand is clearly recorded as being supportive of Nazi Germany and in even organising British people to fight for the Nazis in their invasion of the Sudetenland - not that this indisputable historical fact is publicised in Britain.

Likewise, many, many members of the British nobility and royal family supported Nazi Germany in the 1930s. And many other British people joined the "British Free Corps" of the Nazis. These are well-documented, even though British nationalists get very, very, very, very annoyed when they are brought up.

But is Griffin on record as being supportive of the Nazis? I have no doubt that his predecessor in 1930s Britain, Oswald Mosley, was supportive of Nazi Germany - but is Griffin himself?

A small group of Royal British Legion volunteers ,not representing all the Royal British Legion members ,went to the Sudetenland as a volunteer police force.
The mission was abandoned after about ten days and they were,nt sent to fight more to supervise voting.Without doubt they were certainly misguided
as a Scottish branch, a Jewish branch and a number of other groups objected.

ejmaztec · 14-09-2011 08:48PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

What have you got against giving back and paying respects to those who died in the name of freedom? Is it just because its a British tradition or are you also against "that easter lily nonsense"?

You've done it now.:(

LondonIrish90 · 14-09-2011 08:51PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

You've done it now.:(

Well, its less than two months before the annual 30 pager.Surely a bit of warming up is needed to make this year's the best poppy thread ever? :P

ejmaztec · 14-09-2011 09:04PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Well, its less than two months before the annual 30 pager.Surely a bit of warming up is needed to make this year's the best poppy thread ever? :P

The pre-WW2 British Nazi connections will be well rehearsed by the time the wreaths are being laid at the Cenotaph, and no doubt the pre-WW2 Irish Nazi connections will get a mention as well.:P

Dionysus · 14-09-2011 09:12PM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

What have you got against giving back and paying respects to those who died in the name of freedom? Is it just because its a British tradition or are you also against "that easter lily nonsense"?

Because, well to state the obvious, they didn't "die for freedom". They clearly died to protect and/or enhance the power of the British Empire/British state. No more, and no less. So stop trying to romanticise it as something it never was intended to be.

British people and many of their more dishonest academics have simply wiped all that collaboration between the British and Nazi Germany in the 1930s out of history, despite the abundant historical evidence.

Trinity invite BNP leader Nick Griffin over for debate on immigration

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