Strange pregnancy..even stranger miscarriage

LegacyUser · 14-10-2011 07:54PM #1

Hi, had a post here a few weeks ago titled strange pregnancy. For those who didnt read it, it was basically about my bro and his girlfriend. They had a big fight, she was to move out. When he came back the next day she was still in their flat and was apparantley 16wks pregnant. Said she had a scan, but had no pic.
There are lots of reasons why me and other family members suspected she was lying but im not going to get into them again.

So fast forward a few weeks and now the girlfriend has apparantly lost the baby. My brother is devstated. She says she lost it because she has an under active thyroid gland. I looked this up online and it seems there are some risks to a baby, but mostly developmental risks after the baby is born. Please correct me if im wrong. Also one of the symptoms of under active thyroid is that a person is overweight...this girl is a size 6-8? Another thing is that she said she has had a miscarriage, she didnt have to have a d&c or anything. Now at 5 months pregnant you would definatley have to have thiis procedure-thats if the baby wouldnt be still born at this time?

So basically we all knew she would 'loose' the baby, because we knew she was lying. She even went so far as to go shopping for baby things with my brother! Needless to say he is devestated.

In my last thred on this issue i was asking for advice as to wheater or not i should raise my concerns over her suspicious pregnancy with him. Now i want to know should i tell him that she has made this all up? He needs to get away from this unstable girl. She is clearly messed up in the head to lie about such awful things. I just dont know if i should say it to him or not. He is really upset and hurt and i dont want to hurt him more by saying to him its all been a lie! My partner doesnt think i should say anything, he says my brother will probably end up falling out with me as this girl probably has answers and excuses for everything as shes so manipulative.
Im at a total loss here.. Advice please! (sorry for the long post/rant, im upset and angry myself over this)

Neyite · 14-10-2011 08:52PM

I hate to say it, but your partner might be right - she seems to have all the answers, and it will only pit your brother against you. It might take some time, but he will figure it out when he is ready to.

As far as I know, a baby miscarried in the fifth or subsequent month is more correctly termed stillborn. It has obvious baby features, right down to fingernails. According to my What To Expect When you are Expecting book in front of me, at week 18 the baby is approx 14cm long and weighs the same as a chicken breast. That grows to nearly 20cm at 22 Weeks- the size of a small doll. That would require hospital treatment at least for the mother, I would think.

She sounds like a pathological liar, and a pretty good one. If you absolutly have to discuss it with him, then maybe to suggest he gets impartial facts from a GP or medical professional might come across better.

implausible · 14-10-2011 09:05PM

The story does sound unbelievable alright, but the way you approach this could drive your brother away if you're not careful.

I would try being very sympathetic, calling over, asking her how the hospital was for the D&C (or which hospital) and if they had offered counselling (all in front of your brother of course). You could recommend counselling for both of them. If you act and speak out of genuine concern, you're not accusing her of lying, but you may raise some questions in your brother's mind. If it is true, you're being a concerned sister-in-law.

There's a chance that he suspects that it isn't true already, but denial is a very strong thing. If she is lying, you cannot make him see it, especially if he doesn't want to.

Cunning Stunt · 14-10-2011 09:18PM

Did you not sit him down and talk to him about all of this while she was still ''pregnant''? The problem is that now he will never know for sure if she was or not -- he obviously can't demand a pregnancy test now. And you cannot be 100% certain of it either, to be honest.

crunchie84 · 14-10-2011 09:32PM

At 16 weeks it would be classed as a late miscarraige and she would need a d and c.at the very least she would need a pessary to ripen the cervix to allow her to pass the baby.if she was 16 weeks she would be offered to keep her baby and bury it or have a hospital burial.

I am a friend · 14-10-2011 09:33PM

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Did you not sit him down and talk to him about all of this while she was still ''pregnant''? The problem is that now he will never know for sure if she was or not -- he obviously can't demand a pregnancy test now. And you cannot be 100% certain of it either, to be honest.

Yeah I totally agree! You have lost any leverage you may have had by not talking to him before the 'miscarriage'. Imagine you had told him your concerns and the reality panned out as per your prediction - he would now believe you quicker than a random retrospect accusation.

tinkerbell · 14-10-2011 09:54PM

I remember your other thread and I remember posting that your bro's girlfriend is a complete liar. I would've thought that you were gonna have a chat to your bro about this and how it was so ridiculous that she was "pregnant" - she was never pregnant. If she's over 16 weeks, she would need a d&c.

I still think you need to have a chat with your bro over this, he thinks that he has lost a child - there never was a child. This could affect him for the rest of his life. He needs to know the truth. You should buy him a pregnancy book or something so that he can see that she can't just have a miscarriage without needing treatment! Your bro is completely blinded by her and he needs to get as far away from that crazy gf of his as possible. Some people may say it's none of your business, but he's your brother - he's been messed around, he's too naive to know what's really going on. If it was my brother, I'd be having a chat to him - he needs support, not more people lying and covering up this mess.

C-J · 14-10-2011 10:18PM

Op i remember your original thread and I am so so sorry that things have turned out this way, but i think that you,your family and all us boardies that you confided in knew that a 'miscarriage' was on the way. Without going into too much detail, when I was 22 weeks pregnant I started having agonising pain and was referred by my doctor to hospital, where despite the seriousness I was made wait in a&e for several hours, endure a battery of tests but luckily my baby was fine. I know that anyone at that stage of pregnancy, a d&c would have been necessary, and the baby would have either been buried in the angel garden of the hospital or offered to you to bury. At that stage a miscarriage takes time physically to get over as well as the emotional turmoil of a loss at any stage. I wish you and your family the best, and hope that your brother finds somebody who deserves him as he sounds like a decent guy. X

Miss Fluff · 14-10-2011 10:20PM

I remember the thread too and I remember everyone told you to anticipate an apparent miscarriage at around this time....your poor brother.

At this stage of gestation it's classifised as a stillborn by the way.

This bird is cruel as well as being a pathalogical liar - now is your chance to talk to your brother. I remember advising you to keep your beak our last time and see whatb transpires but at this stage I'd be talking to him and expressing your fears in no uncertain terms - she is a fucking nutjob

coolcat63 · 14-10-2011 10:26PM

He may not thank you for it but it might be worth showing him both threads - so many people predicted this outcome. Poor sod.

dafunk · 14-10-2011 10:36PM

I think you should wait a short while and not jump into discussig this with him immediately. He is most likely devastated, emotional and angry at his apparent loss and he could possibly think you're completely attackig his girlfriend and himself. Also, giving him a pregnancy book as was advised by another poster could come across as extremely cruel under the circumstances. What do the rest of your family think, if you all feel this way maybe more than one of you could talk to him together? I remember your last thread, you had been planning to voice your concerns before this happened, did you ever get a chance to do that and how did he react?

Acoshla · 14-10-2011 11:38PM

A friend of mine lost a baby at 20 weeks and had to deliver it, so at 16 weeks the very least she would have would be a D&C, as soon as I saw the thread title I knew it was the follow up to her elaborate lie, how cruel of her to do that to your poor brother.

But I do agree with your partner, if he can't see it himself than he will just think you are causing trouble.

seenitall · 14-10-2011 11:40PM

Problem2solve wrote: »

My partner doesnt think i should say anything, he says my brother will probably end up falling out with me as this girl probably has answers and excuses for everything as shes so manipulative.

Hi OP,

sorry to read your post and sorry to say, I think your partner is right.

This girl may be a nutjob but she obviously isn't stupid - she knows her target audience. As long as your bro is in thrall to her quite ridiculously obvious lies, excuses and the general manipulative carry-on, it is also easy to predict you wouldn't get far with him on that score. He's in her camp now, all the way. Otherwise he wouldn't have fallen for all that bull in the first place.

However, if you think you can't hold it in any longer, talk to him and voice your concerns by all means; I'd just be very careful how you go about it, because I think that the person who is most liable to get the least amount of satisfaction, and the most amount of frustration out of that conversation, is you.

I guess what I am trying to say is I see this as a no-win situation for you, and that's why I'd keep away. That talk that you feel you have to have will be mainly for your benefit, to get things off your chest, so to speak. Because he won't listen. In which case you have to wonder: is it worth it? If you think it is, go ahead.

Good luck.

LegacyUser · 14-10-2011 11:50PM

Thankyou all for the replies. Yes, last time i posted about thiis i had decided i was goin to broach the subject with him and arranged to call down and see him. She wasnt suppossed to be there but she was so it ended up i couldnt get any time alone to talk to him. I planned to try meet him again but because of my own family sommitments i ended up not getting down to him and a few days later i got the call saying she had lost the baby.
Before this, any time i was speaking to him and asking how thimgs were he kept saying that she was worried about her tyroid causing problems. She also made a comment that they shouldnt be telling people till she had had a few scans...which is ridiclous..
When i rang him after i was told she miscarried i was obvously asking him what happend etc and i heard her saying something in the background, when i asked my bro what she said he said she didnt want to 'keep going over it', hat she was upset and that they had had people on the phone all day asking questions! I reckon thst she knew it was me and suspects im on to her and thats why she didnt want me asking questions.
She is really taking it so far and playing the part. It worries me what kind of person she is to be able to do this, let along thinking of doing it. My brother was almost crying saying thy would have to get rid of the baby clothes they had bought!
Im so angry and upset.
I think im going to try and meet with him,alone. Like ring him and ask him to meet, say i need to talk to him so to come alone.
Im almost thinking along the lines of **** it if he gets upset or angry with me because he needs to know whats happend, whats going on right under his nose. Even if it makes him fall out with me, it will only be on a temporary basis cos its only a matter of timw untill he sees her for what she really is. A sick,twisted,manipulative liar.

beks101 · 14-10-2011 11:57PM

My sympathies on this whole sorry mess of a situation OP.

You could debate the rights and wrongs of what action you should take now til the cows come home, but the reality is that right now your brother is mourning the loss of a child that never existed and setting himself up for a life of utter misery with this psycho wackjob b1tch. He wouldn't be with her now anyway if it wasn't for her dropping this 'pregnancy' bomb.

You cannot afford to stand idly by and watch this car crash further unfold. Fcuk what's politically correct and fcuk being 'careful'. As his sister, this is where you lay out this entire farce of a pregnancy and 'miscarriage' as everyone saw it- all the inconsistencies, inaccuracies, physical impossibilities, with medical back-up explaining just exactly why and how this could never have been a real pregnancy in the first place.

Yes, he's emotional and is likely to take her side and completely reject what you're saying, but that's just the risk you take IMO. I know I simply couldn't sit back and let such an unstable and frankly dangerous piece of work trap and ruin the life of one of my siblings, I physically couldn't stop myself. If you can at least plant the seeds of doubt in his head, so he thinks about it a little more, does his own research and questions why he never saw a scan or why her late miscarriage required no hospital treatment...it will only be a matter of time before he starts to see the light. You can be sure this won't be her last stunt and I've no doubt the next one will be actually getting pregnant and trapping him indefinitely.

Please, please talk to him.

Aishae · 15-10-2011 07:17AM

As well as anything else OP, she will probably use the 'miscarriage' to keep her claws in till the next drama 'you wouldn't leave me after all we've been through would you?'
So I think planting the seeds of doubt heavily is a good idea. The only thing I'm worried about is that if your bro tells her who he is meeting she will find a reason why he can't or turn up with him.

I really hope he sees through her - we all saw this coming (after the other thread) he wanted to believe her. That's the problem.

littlefriend · 15-10-2011 08:02AM

Problem2solve wrote: »

Im almost thinking along the lines of **** it if he gets upset or angry with me because he needs to know whats happend, whats going on right under his nose. Even if it makes him fall out with me, it will only be on a temporary basis cos its only a matter of timw untill he sees her for what she really is. A sick,twisted,manipulative liar.

Yeah I think you are right.
How did the 'miscarriage' supposedly happen? Surely he'd know if she had been to hospital etc even if it was just for a few hours. Perhaps he has suspicions but doesn't want to face them as he loves her and admitting she is lying means he'll have to break up with her?

Acoshla · 15-10-2011 08:53AM

After thinking about this some more I agree with beks, you should tell him, show up the holes in her story, and like you said yourself OP if he gets mad at you so what, he needs to know what he's involved with here.

If it was me I think I'd probably go see both of them first, and I'd think of questions that seemed like you care about her and what she's "going through", and watch more holes appear in the story, things about maybe aftercare, any advice the doctors gave for how to look after herself, etc etc, all said with a concerned expression and lots of sympathy, play her at her own game. The more info you have (or don't have as the case may be) the more implausible it will all seem when you do explain to your brother.

Agent J · 15-10-2011 09:24AM

My sympathies on this one.

A direct approach at this time might backfire horribly and have you cut out of the situation indefinatly.

He is still emotionally all over the place. I would strongly suggest you recommend he see a counsellor... alone.

If he has any doubts what so ever he might be able to express them there or the counsellor might as a question or two which gets him thinking.

You on the other hand can do all the research to get all the data you can on this. If/When he is ready to ask the question then you can help him.

Good luck.

Justask · 15-10-2011 02:49PM

Ok im going to go againist everything here

I think IMO that this girl is very ill. to lie about a pregnancy and then to lie out lossing a baby in my eyes is someone who is not well at all and need support and a serious amout of help.

If this was my brother it would be the girlfriend i'd be talking to. I would approch her family and tell them that she needs support and help.

IrishEyes19 · 15-10-2011 05:25PM

Justask wrote: »

Ok im going to go againist everything here

I think IMO that this girl is very ill. to lie about a pregnancy and then to lie out lossing a baby in my eyes is someone who is not well at all and need support and a serious amout of help.

If this was my brother it would be the girlfriend i'd be talking to. I would approch her family and tell them that she needs support and help.

no way would I approach the girlfriend, and appear as the sister in law who had a go at the girl who "apparently" had a miscarriage??? We know she's lying, but it wont look that way. plus if the OP's brother is on his gf's side, imagine what he'll think of his sister if she go's for his gf first. No, if your going to talk to anyone, be it your brother first.

discus · 15-10-2011 05:54PM

That sounds neens, OP. I know a girl who has done this to a few people in her time. She did it to my best mate, which made a mess of him. I hope she doesn't come from North dublin.

You have to challenge your brother though. This sounds nuts, and he may well hate you for it, but you don't need to prove her wrong. I'd go as far to say that you need to make sure that she doesn't cop on to your plan. If she knows there is a move against her, she can do the following.

a) threaten to kill herself
b) claim another pregnancy
c) make false claims against him, his friends, or his family (thats you)
d) a combination of the above

If she is the pathological liar that we all think she is, we need to establish a few things. Mainly her past. Does she have a big circle of friends, or a strange lack of childhood/teenage acquiantances? Do you know of any ex boyfriends that she ended well with, or have they all hit her / been "psycho/abusive/junkies"? If it's the latter for both questions, you'll need to do some searching on your own time. You may find that she has done this before, and it may take that to convince your brother that she's haywire.

I'd also recommend to him to stop having sex with her, or at least make sure it's all protected.

LegacyUser · 15-10-2011 06:38PM

discus wrote: »

I'd go as far to say that you need to make sure that she doesn't cop on to your plan. If she knows there is a move against her.....

I think she already knows that the OP suspects something is not right. She showed up when the OP met with her brother.

OP, I think you need to talk to him and do whatever you can to make sure she is not there.

I'd also recommend to him to stop having sex with her, or at least make sure it's all protected.

This is imperative! And forget making sure it it's all protected as the girlfriend might just say that she is now on the pill or can't get pregnant right away because of the "miscarriage". He simply can't have sex with this woman.

lolli · 16-10-2011 12:00AM

Op you say that she was 16 weeks when she told your brother she was pregnant and she had a miscarriage a few weeks later which would put her at around the 20 week mark. My cousin gave birth to two babies at 21 weeks and they weighed 1lb each.

What I find strange is that this baby would have been small but it would have been fully formed. If i had a miscarriage/still birth at that late stage I would want the baby buried in my local graveyard and I know of people who have done this. So where is this baby supposed to have gone? Where was your brother when this happened? How come he didn't see the baby? I just find it all very strange. You need to get your brother on his own. Would you really like to see your brother stay with this girl if shes telling all these lies. I know if it was brother I would speak up.

planetX · 16-10-2011 08:50AM

It's very strange though - wouldn't your brother have gone to the hospital with her. If he is made aware of the medical facts about a miscarriage at 16 weeks surely he'll figure things out for himself, that she didn't go in to the hospital.
And why would she not have pretended to be say 8 weeks pregnant, when she really could have pulled off the fake miscarriage.
Are you really sure about your facts - I didn't see the other thread, but what if you're wrong? If you're right about her god help him, she'll be pregnant as soon as possible.

Firetrap · 16-10-2011 09:39AM

It's a tricky one. I remember that other thread well and the circumstances leading up to this "miscarriage". The problem from your point of view that your brother's caught up in a very intense relationship with this whackjob. He's thrown just about every gram of common sense he has out the window. She might be a conniving cow but she's his conniving cow. He fell hook, line and sinker for her pregnancy story and never thought to question any of it.

I think too that going in with all guns blazing would backfire horribly. It would be far better for the OP to get her brother on his own and try to tease the situation out with him. Ask questions about the lack of bump, no scans, the medical procedures, the lack of paperwork, aftercare etc. Be a bit questioning about it without coming out with all guns blazing.

Aishae · 16-10-2011 09:48AM

It's hard to imagine anyone would do such a thing. Thats probably the main reason your brother isnt questioning her But they do do it.
Things like sudden pregnancies happen too. But nothing about the story adds up at all. Unless she has been trying to get pregnant from day 1 (you said they were together only 15 weeks when he went to break up with her and she said she was 15 weeks pregnant?).
Why was he going to break up with her? Perhaps the reason is still there, he only stayed as there was a baby involved as far as he knew and he won't leave her yet due to the 'miscarriage'.

LegacyUser · 16-10-2011 01:45PM

About ten years ago I was in a similar position to your brother.

I was cutting a girl out of my life. I wanted to get away from her as she had been emotionally manipulating me for a while. We weren't dating but it was a strange relationship we had and I needed to end it. She threatened to kill herself if I left - actually stood in front of me with a knife to her wrists.

I moved out of the flat we were in and returned to my parents house for a while. I ignored her phonecalls and thought that was the end of it. She then left me a voicemail saying she was pregnant and she needed help and support.

It wasn't my child - couldn't have been because we hadn't been sleeping together. But I believed she was pregnant and so went back to her. She seemed very calm for someone who had an unplanned pregnancy on her hands. She asked that I didn't tell anyone.

I asked her about appointments etc. and she had said the doctor who had done the pregnancy test had given her "some time" to get used to it before scheduling any hospital appointments. That sounded suspicious to me. And as the days went by I grew more and more suspicious that this pregnancy was fake.

I went out and bought a pregnancy test and made her take it. It was negative. She first claimed that she ran it under the tap because she wanted me to think she wasn't pregnant as she was going to have an abortion anyway. I went as far as smelling the test myself to confirm that it had been peed on. She had taken it. She was definitely not pregnant. She then claimed that she had lost the baby a few days before but hadn't wanted to tell me. Nobody would have a miscarriage and then just carry on without seeking medical help.

I got out of there.

She tried to pull me back into her world again later and rang me to say that a counsellor had suggested she have a Mass to help her get over the grief of losing "our baby". It was when she started referring to it as "ours" that I knew she was completely unstable as even if she was pregnant it definitely was nothing to do with me.

Some people will lie about anything to try to hold on to people in their lives.

I'm not sure if any of this will help you OP but your brother's girlfriend sounds so much like the girl I knew that it wouldn't even surprise me to find out they're the same person. If he presses her on any of these issues she will break down in tears and emotionally manipulate him into ceasing questioning her. Even though she might seem unaffected by the 'miscarriage' she will suddenly become emotionally distraught if challenged. This I can almost guarantee.

Tread very carefully - people like this are dangerous. She will not think twice about turning your own brother against you to increase her hold over him.

shinikins · 16-10-2011 09:46PM

I wasn't going to post on this thread but I've been reading it and getting more and more angry at this girl, so I felt I had to. I'm actually seething right now.

I've had a miscarriage at 15 weeks and let me tell you it was no walk in the park. It's not like a bad period where you pass clots, and can deal with it at home, you have to have medical attention. A D&C is mandatory as the baby at that stage is about he size of a large avocado and is a recognisable baby, and it involves an overnight stay in hospital. Your bump is pretty obvious at that stage too, unless you have a freakishly long body or are very overweight, and if your brothers girlfriend is the size you say she is OP, then her bump should have been very easy to see. She should also be going to the GP for aftercare. You are offered to have a hospital burial or bury the child yourself, in either case there is a paper trail that can be followed.

If it were me I would tell him. He's grieving a child that never existed, its just so wrong. No one should have to suffer the loss of a child but I can't imagine finding out later that it was a lie and that family had their suspicions. If you can't bring yourself to say it to him outright, then ask him questions that you know he has no answers to, he'll see himself that it doesn't add up.

Danniboo · 17-10-2011 08:22AM

Op, you've got two threads with pages full of really good advice. I think the bottom line is if you're going to do something do it but for god sake do it before the next tragedy/incident occurs. As an older sister I don't know how you've kept quiet so long to be honest.

Big Bag of Chips · 17-10-2011 08:41AM

I just read your first post on the other thread. Could you suggest to your brother that he goes to speak to her mother?

Seeing as it was her who supposedly brought her to the hospital first time and also has the scan pictures.

Nothing you say will really help at the moment, but if he can speak to someone "who was there", then he might get more answers.

LegacyUser · 17-10-2011 04:13PM

Not to make excuses for her, because the whole thing sounds very suspicious as all the other posters have said, but a D+C would not necessarily be required. At 15 weeks I basically went into labour and lost the baby. After repeated scans, both on the day and the following morning, to ensure there was nothing remaining I went home.
(Have an 11 month old now so it's all good)

Corruptedmorals · 17-10-2011 10:51PM

Also not intending to strengthen her cause as I do think she has made the whole thing up, but being overweight and having an underactive thyroid does not neccessarily go hand in hand. I myself have it but I'm less than 8 stone with a BMI of 17.5, and my results before diagnosis and at another stage were quite bad. I've read that if it's not under control, conception is difficult to achieve and you have to be monitored carefully in the first trimester and have your dosage of eltroxin increased because before the baby makes its own thyroid, it uses your thyroxine so therefore sends you further underactive. Though actual miscarriage? Haven't heard of underactive thyroid as a direct cause at all.

Lollipops23 · 18-10-2011 08:36AM

not necessarily so wrote: »

Not to make excuses for her, because the whole thing sounds very suspicious as all the other posters have said, but a D+C would not necessarily be required. At 15 weeks I basically went into labour and lost the baby. After repeated scans, both on the day and the following morning, to ensure there was nothing remaining I went home.
(Have an 11 month old now so it's all good)

Sorry to hear of your tough time.

Although, you make the point that you had repeated scans, to ensure there was nothing still there. The girl in the OP doesn't appear to have had these, which is where suspicion is arising- obviously hospitals are very vigilant when someone loses a baby at this stage, as anything left can cause septicimia and lead to death.

Strange pregnancy..even stranger miscarriage

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