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Amendment of the Lisbon Treaty?

  • 26-10-2011 02:06PM
    #1
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭


    Public in no mood to amend Lisbon deal.


    THE IRISH electorate is likely to reject any attempt to amend the Lisbon Treaty to deal with the financial crisis in the European Union, according to the latest Irish Times /Ipsos MRBI poll.


    The resistance of the electorate to voting Yes in another EU referendum will be an important consideration for Taoiseach Enda Kenny in the European Council negotiations which resume in Brussels today.


    I fear for our future with all these cracks showing.
    How would you vote?
    I would personally vote no.

    (In party terms, Fianna Fáil voters are most supportive of a treaty change, closely followed by Fine Gael voters. Sinn Féin voters are the most hostile, followed by Labour voters.)Voters also expressed strong dissatisfaction with the manner in which European leaders are running the EU.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1026/1224306505965.html


    Ireland already being forced to bend over backwards and they want more?


Comments

  • #2
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    It depends on the amendment. If it clearly was to the benefit of Ireland to vote yes, I would do it.


  • #3
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    It depends on the amendment. If it clearly was to the benefit of Ireland to vote yes, I would do it.

    It isnt though,it will be i bet Irish bending over to the masters and as usual getting republically screwed.While they lord some more over our freedom and rights and cut and cut to save the likes of Greece who are giving them the two fingers.
    I cant wait till EU is gone.
    From what i read of what they want to propose it is even more control over Ireland.
    Hitler couldn't have planned this one but his idea is happening.


  • #4
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    caseyann wrote: »
    It isnt though,it will be i bet Irish bending over to the masters and as usual getting republically screwed.While they lord some more over our freedom and rights and cut and cut to save the likes of Greece who are giving them the two fingers.
    I cant wait till EU is gone.
    I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.


  • #5
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,842 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    caseyann wrote: »
    It isnt though...
    Wow. You already know that a putative future treaty will be bad for Ireland, even though no such treaty has even been drafted yet. Talk about an open mind.

    Given our track record with referendums - particularly the two coming up this week - if there's to be a treaty change, the government should ratify it in the Dáil and take their chance on a Supreme Court challenge.


  • #6
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    caseyann wrote: »
    Ireland already being forced to bend over backwards and they want more?

    I think we were already bent over ****ing each other royally.
    caseyann wrote: »
    I cant wait till EU is gone.

    What exactly do you think the consequences of that would be? Because other than five minutes where our 'nationalists' feel a warm glow before the **** hits the fan I can't think of anything good.


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  • #7
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    caseyann wrote: »
    Public in no mood to amend Lisbon deal.

    The public wouldn't be asked "to amend the Lisbon deal". The Lisbon Treaty was a treaty that amended the EU Treaties. It has done so and is now as historical as say the Brussels Treaty.

    The public may well be asked to approve a NEW Treaty - let's say a "Treaty of Madrid" - which is a different issue altogether.


  • #8
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,842 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    View wrote: »
    The public may well be asked to approve a NEW Treaty - let's say a "Treaty of Madrid" - which is a different issue altogether.
    A tenner says any such treaty will be called "Lisbon III" within hours.


  • #9
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,975 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    A tenner says any such treaty will be called "Lisbon III" within hours.
    Pfft, "Nice V" FTW

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  • #10
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    A tenner says any such treaty will be called "Lisbon III" within hours.

    Well, the government's response can be to call it the "In or out" treaty and make it crystal clear what the consequences of a No vote are.

    We are, after all, no doubt prepared to follow the American saying of "You gotta walk the walk, not just talk the talk" through to its obvious conclusion...


  • #11
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    View wrote: »
    Well, the government's response can be to call it the "In or out" treaty and make it crystal clear what the consequences of a No vote are.

    We are, after all, no doubt prepared to follow the American saying of "You gotta walk the walk, not just talk the talk" through to its obvious conclusion...

    What like they did with the Lisbon treaty itself?


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  • #12
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    caseyann wrote: »
    What like they did with the Lisbon treaty itself?

    The government is perfectly free to play its hand anyway it wants, anytime it wants. It is under no obligation to be bound by the actions or inactions of its predecessors.

    Under the constitution, only the government can negotiate international treaties for us. If the default amongst the population becomes that they will reject any treaty out of hand, sight unseen, then the government can quite reasonably say it is wasting its time trying to negotiate them. After all, how long do you think other countries would continue wasting their time and tax-payers' money negotiating treaties with us when they realise that we will reject whatever is negotiated?


  • #13
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    View wrote: »
    The government is perfectly free to play its hand anyway it wants, anytime it wants. It is under no obligation to be bound by the actions or inactions of its predecessors.

    Under the constitution, only the government can negotiate international treaties for us. If the default amongst the population becomes that they will reject any treaty out of hand, sight unseen, then the government can quite reasonably say it is wasting its time trying to negotiate them. After all, how long do you think other countries would continue wasting their time and tax-payers' money negotiating treaties with us when they realise that we will reject whatever is negotiated?

    They didnt accept it last time and forced it on Ireland again.And it did nothing for us,actually things got alot worse.
    So to be honest i dont believe Irish government FG(aka FF twins) Give to damns whether Irish vote against it,and will use scare tactics to go again if they vote no.


  • #14
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    caseyann wrote: »
    They didnt accept it last time and forced it on Ireland again.And it did nothing for us,actually things got alot worse.
    So to be honest i dont believe Irish government FG(aka FF twins) Give to damns whether Irish vote against it,and will use scare tactics to go again if they vote no.
    That's not the case. I'm not getting into this discussion again, but needless to say that the proper referendum procedures were followed in putting the second referendum to the people.


  • #15
    LK_Dave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭LK_Dave


    I wouldn’t be the most pro EU person in the world but neither am I middle of the road. I feel we have to hold fire on any assumptions of what amendments which may be required.
    The current problems have been well documented for the past two plus years and have a decade in the making and still the EU leaders have not figured out how to solve them. I don’t see the EU falling at the moment but some countries could be kicked out of the Euro and some will probably leave the EU. Will Ireland be one of these? It would not be advantageous with our current problems. We need the world economy to recover and grow, address our debt problems (public and private) and our cost base as a place to do business, as well as changing our attitude to be pro business and a lot less nimbyism. Only then should we begin the debate on leaving the Euro/EU or forming other alliances.


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