The Barbarians: who cares anymore?

Snickers Man · 30-11-2011 01:24PM #1

I fear this is the sort of potentially flame-filled thread that the Mods might hose fairly early on but I think it's a debate worth having.

Is there any point in the Barbarians taking on major teams in one-off matches any more?

Does anybody care? What do you expect to get from them?

Personally I think they are an anachronism, a spurious after thought to an already swamped international calendar. No need for them any more.

It was different back in the amateur days. Then there were at most five internationals a year. There was the Five Nations and every two or three years or so, one of the big three from the Southern Hemisphere (and for the latter part of the time there were only two as South AFrica were effectively blacklisted) would come over and play a tour.

In those cases the Barbarians, deputising for the Lions, would take on the visitors and try to wrest at least one victory away from them.

But nowadays we are just finished with a world cup. We have an expanded Six Nations. We have several top-ranked international club tournaments. We have "player management" to minimise burnout and injuries. What possible purpose do matches like this provide?

Do we prefer "All Star" matches to those involving the clubs/provinces/national sides we hold dear?

I think it's an important question because if those whose job it is to invest in rugby for a return see "exhibition" games or one-off All Star matches as a lucrative way to go, then we will see a further diminution of the club/province/national side pyramid.

The farcical notion, happily abandoned, of Saracens playing a Heineken Cup match in South Africa shows that there are many money men who see "growing the game" as growing the audience for their pet project. Which is a slightly different thing.

Anyway, I vote to scrap them.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-11-2011 01:26PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

Anyway, I vote to scrap them.

I vote we scrap them as well

thomond2006 · 30-11-2011 01:30PM

There's too many barbarians games, it's overkill. It should be restricted to one game a year.

I like the concept of the Barbarians and occasionally they do play great rugby (summer matches against Wales and England).

Flincher · 30-11-2011 01:53PM

I think when they get it right its an excellent concept. There are probably too many high profile matches at the moment.

Their match against Ireland in Thomond was a great occasion, and actually one of the most enjoyable evenings I've had there. There was a full house, decent enough rugby played, and a very relaxed atmosphere. Their games against Australia in Wembley and NZ in Twickenham in 2009 were great occasions. I think it very much depends on the players they get in.

I think recently they've looked too much at inviting players they think will attract a crowd, such as Cipriani, instead of what they traditionally looked for, i.e. players of a high standard who play in the spirit of the game, and that hasn't done them any favours.

durkadurka · 30-11-2011 02:00PM

THey'll be scrapped when the people stop coming through the turnstiles

Rigor Mortis · 30-11-2011 02:01PM

It would be a shame to see the back of this team. If the team and the organisation have lost a bit of direction, then that should be fixed, but not have the team disbanded.

I think a max of two games per year, one in each hemisphere. I think a genuine attempt to include one or two tier b players in those teams.

I would hate to think that we were in danger of eliminating a team, because of the demands of the various leagues. Whenever anyone talks about calendars I get nervous that what they really mean is the Aviva Premiership (probably not in the case of the OP).

siltirocker · 30-11-2011 02:21PM

It's all relative really.

Having that last game was w@nk. But having the SH ex-pats play Ireland in the summer in 2010 was BRILLIANT! And format should continue that way.

I think more needs to go into the selection policy regarding opponents.

(I personally would die for a game between an Irish XV v a team with Howlett, Warwick, Dr. Phil, Pieenar, Ofisa, etc)

pickarooney · 30-11-2011 02:32PM

They should tour the Pacific Islands and give those countries some half-decent opposition during the four-year gap between world cups.

justsomebloke · 30-11-2011 02:55PM

Truthfully I think the timing of the thread is poor in that everyone has last weeks game in mind. However it was always going to be a crap one sided match due to poor scheduling. The Baabaas was just a bad mis-mash of players as clubs weren't in a position to release players for it and then they had to play an Oz team that has spent a massive chunk of time playing and training with each other this year so it was always going to be a one sided game.

The amount of Rugby games being played though has meant there isn't really a period in the international window to properly roster these games but they are still games for me that are special and I do hope they continue. Truthfully if done right the Lions V the baabaas could be a cracking game if the baabaas get to select the best of the southern hemisphere

Teferi · 30-11-2011 03:27PM

In a game where money and the bottom lines importance will only increase traditions like the Barbarians and the Lions matter more than a lot of people seem to realise. Scrapping these throwbacks to the amateur era are short-sighted because in the long run they are what will separate us from the money-centric sports like soccer or American football. Watching rugby played for honour and glory rather than the size of someones bank account will become increasingly important.

In saying that, I don't think the Barbarians should play unless they have a legitimate chance of competing in the games they play. Watching Australia whomp them was boring and apart from Stringer robbing O'Connors ball and the kick at the end there was very little joy in watching the Baabaas play in the game just gone.

By the way, I'm not slagging soccer or football, I even support the Detroit Lions but I think anyone would find it hard to argue that the massive money involved in all three sports hasn't changed them

pappyodaniel · 30-11-2011 03:46PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p25goAPNxuE

Eoin · 30-11-2011 05:50PM

Teferi wrote:

In a game where money and the bottom lines importance will only increase traditions like the Barbarians and the Lions matter more than a lot of people seem to realise.

I think the big difference between the Barbarians and the Lions is that it's still probably (hopefully) quite an honour to get selected for the Lions. Going by the some of the commentary that I remember while watching Rugbai Gold on TG4, I think that used to be the case for the Barbarians, but now it's just a weekend away.

I do enjoy a good few of their games; but often it's like watching Fiji. They're great to watch, and you're really rooting for them. But ultimately, they'll probably get thumped.

Cardinal Richelieu · 01-12-2011 06:28PM

I remember there was talk of getting rid of the Barbarians games back in 1994 when they were due to play South Africa who I think were unbeaten on their tour of the British Isles at the time. One great game later people were raving about the concept. When they do get their squad selection right you get to see a great game but I think the Babarians brand gets devalued when its a Southern Hemisphere selection of the remaining Southern Hemisphere touring teams with one or two retiring English Premiership players.

I would love to see a Barbarians selection play the British Lions before they embark on the Lions tour South.

durkadurka · 01-12-2011 06:39PM

Uh oh. 'British lions' alert.

thomond2006 · 01-12-2011 07:02PM

The Barbarians are playing the Lions in Hong Kong in 2013.

Losty Dublin · 02-12-2011 01:11PM

The day the game became professional was the day that the Ba Ba's and indeed all of the great representative teams of yesteryear became irrelevant. Once upon a time it was the accolade of accolades to be picked to play for them, now the cream of players won't be released for them as it's too much of an injury risk today and of those that do, they want to be paid for the day. Also, as the other posts have made, we are exposed to so many games that frankly they are not much more than a filler team on the fixture sheet.

slowburner · 02-12-2011 01:21PM

And what would become of Bah-bah style rugby? I thoroughly enjoy seeing how rugby can be played in this style - where else would the pros get a chance to demonstrate their creative ability without serious implications if it goes belly up?

slowburner · 02-12-2011 01:31PM

One of the most memorable games I ever watched was Ireland v Barbarians, when Lomu was at the height of his powers.
Dempsey, Hickie and O'Driscoll (I think) figured out that if Lomu wasn't given the space to build up momentum, he was easily put to ground.
Everyone shouted "Olé" (as in the bullfight olé) every time he was tackled.:p

pickarooney · 02-12-2011 02:07PM

slowburner wrote: »

Dempsey, Hickie and O'Driscoll (I think) figured out that if Lomu wasn't given the space to build up momentum, he was easily put to ground.
p

By three men? :P

slowburner · 02-12-2011 02:11PM

pickarooney wrote: »

By three men? :P

Pretty much. The man had big thighs

.

Crash · 02-12-2011 03:09PM

I remember that game. Think it was when Neill Jenkins came on and kicked the **** out of us in the last 10 minutes, after leading until then. something like 32-30 or somesuch?

Podge_irl · 02-12-2011 03:24PM

there has been quite a few excellent BaBas games in the last few years too. I'm sure there were quite a few dross games with no big names in the past, just no one remembers them

CatFromHue · 02-12-2011 03:35PM

I think this is the game you're talking about:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/match_centre.php?section=lineups&fixid=27979

As for does anyone care about the BaaBaas? Yes it's fair to say we do just not in their current format. That game last week should never have been played and to arrange it was pure bad management if you ask me. The BaaBaa concept is purely based on quality, both in players and style. Once you dilute this the team becomes nothing.

A Barbarian team with quality players, who are capable of playing to the Barbarian style, and who play to the Barbarian style will always get people interested.

The Barbarian team that played Ireland in Thomond was:

BARBARIANS: Paul Warwick, Cedric Heymans, Casey Laulala, Seru Rabeni, David Smith; Brock James, Pierre Mignoni; David Barnes, Schalk Brits, Census Johnston, Jerome Thion, Malcolm O'Kelly, Alan Quinlan, George Smith, Xavier Rush

Warwick, Rabeni, James, Thion, Quinlan while good players are not Barbarian standard and the team did not play in the Barbarian style. They kicked 4 penalties for F**k sake and were rightly booed by the home crowd!

slowburner · 02-12-2011 07:26PM

Crash wrote: »

I remember that game. Think it was when Neill Jenkins came on and kicked the **** out of us in the last 10 minutes, after leading until then. something like 32-30 or somesuch?

Think so. Jenkins had a habit of doing awful damage to Ireland when least expected.

slowburner · 02-12-2011 07:29PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think this is the game you're talking about:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/match_centre.php?section=lineups&fixid=27979

Oh cripes, was it that long ago? :eek:

Crash · 03-12-2011 12:23AM

Yup, wish I hadn't realised that had been 2000 :P

CatFromHue · 03-12-2011 12:26AM

Crash wrote: »

Yup, wish I hadn't realised that had been 2000 :P

How about the previous and first Barbarian Ireland game in 1996, the Peace International!

astonaidan · 04-12-2011 03:04AM

I enjoy the BaBas just wondering what theyd be like with a real select of.
1. Cian Healy
2. Dimitri Szarzewski
3. John Hayes
4. Ali Williams
5. Bakkies Botha
6. Thierry Dusautoir
7. Richie McCaww
8. Pierre Spies
9. Dimitri Yachvili
10. Dan Carter
11. Bryan Habana
12. Maa Nonu
13. James O'Connor
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Israel Dagg

Since I know nothing about props I cant fill it in accuratly

The Barbarians: who cares anymore?

Barbarians one-off matches against national teams should be scrapped! Yes or No? 16 votes

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