100% record , a team living on muscle memory

buck65 · 19-12-2011 12:20PM #1

How on earth are Munster the only team in this season's Heineken Cup on a 100% record? Lucky in the extreme to beat Northampton, an unlikely win in France and 2 wins against a game but fragile Scarlets has put us in a position where a home Quarter final looks a real possibility now.
Castres by the looks of things have thrown their hat at the competition and should be rolled over in Thomond leaving a trip to Franklin Garden's with us probably looking for no more than a losing BP at the most for a home QF.
All very well and dandy if all goes as above except for one thing...we will be one of the poorest teams in the knockout phases.
Our play has been one dimensional, predictable and totally blunt. We have lacked real pace out wide, our back play is abysmal and our midfield look incapable of making line breaks. The one bright light is BJ Botha and what he has done to a scrum that spent the last two seasons going if not backwards at least sideways.
Paul O Connell is playing inspiring stuff and driving the pack forward. O Gara as has been well documented is kicking his goals and scoring a few essential drop goals and his all round game is quite good too.
However to gloss over all our inadequacies and be complacent is going to bring us into a play off - be it in the quarter or semi - where we are going to get destroyed by the top European teams such as Toulouse and Leinster.
Of course we are crippled with injury to key figures such as Howlett, Wallace, Felix Jones etc. but the happy place we find ourselves in now a dangerously false one.
Our backline is a complete jumble of journeymen and young players, who find themselves out of position so much they actually look lost at times - 2 tries were butchered yesterday by the backs who seem to have no spatial awareness whatsoever.
A top class backs coach is seriously lacking and one would have to wonder when the IRFU are going to adress this. It took them long enough to realise that our scrum needed serious investment.
Also our coach though commendable for making some hard calls really needs to give Ian Keatley a run at 12. O Gara is going to be in the cockpit for at least 2 more seasons and having a player with his ability on the bench is counter productive for him and the club.
It was obvious that Mafi was off form yesterday but we persist with the same players in the backs regardless of form.
Good to see Earls back but the loss of Howlett will hurt us. Munster do need one or two new players in the backs though, lads with experience. In fairness Hurley and Murphy are never really going to do it at top level, sure there may be a place for those guys in the squad but neither look comfortable at Heineken level.
Still we whistle and kick the can down the road but the fact is we are going to get a big wake up call this season, merry Christmas.

Sport101 · 19-12-2011 12:32PM

A team with a good set piece and the likes of Paul O'Connell playing arguably the best rugby of his career are going to be hard to beat for any of the other teams in the knockout stages.

colster · 19-12-2011 01:07PM

buck65 wrote: »

How on earth are Munster the only team in this season's Heineken Cup on a 100% record? Lucky in the extreme to beat Northampton, an unlikely win in France and 2 wins against a game but fragile Scarlets has put us in a position where a home Quarter final looks a real possibility now.
Castres by the looks of things have thrown their hat at the competition and should be rolled over in Thomond leaving a trip to Franklin Garden's with us probably looking for no more than a losing BP at the most for a home QF.
All very well and dandy if all goes as above except for one thing...we will be one of the poorest teams in the knockout phases.
Our play has been one dimensional, predictable and totally blunt. We have lacked real pace out wide, our back play is abysmal and our midfield look incapable of making line breaks. The one bright light is BJ Botha and what he has done to a scrum that spent the last two seasons going if not backwards at least sideways.
Paul O Connell is playing inspiring stuff and driving the pack forward. O Gara as has been well documented is kicking his goals and scoring a few essential drop goals and his all round game is quite good too.
However to gloss over all our inadequacies and be complacent is going to bring us into a play off - be it in the quarter or semi - where we are going to get destroyed by the top European teams such as Toulouse and Leinster.
Of course we are crippled with injury to key figures such as Howlett, Wallace, Felix Jones etc. but the happy place we find ourselves in now a dangerously false one.
Our backline is a complete jumble of journeymen and young players, who find themselves out of position so much they actually look lost at times - 2 tries were butchered yesterday by the backs who seem to have no spatial awareness whatsoever.
A top class backs coach is seriously lacking and one would have to wonder when the IRFU are going to adress this. It took them long enough to realise that our scrum needed serious investment.
Also our coach though commendable for making some hard calls really needs to give Ian Keatley a run at 12. O Gara is going to be in the cockpit for at least 2 more seasons and having a player with his ability on the bench is counter productive for him and the club.
It was obvious that Mafi was off form yesterday but we persist with the same players in the backs regardless of form.
Good to see Earls back but the loss of Howlett will hurt us. Munster do need one or two new players in the backs though, lads with experience. In fairness Hurley and Murphy are never really going to do it at top level, sure there may be a place for those guys in the squad but neither look comfortable at Heineken level.
Still we whistle and kick the can down the road but the fact is we are going to get a big wake up call this season, merry Christmas.

I'm a Leinster fan and I don't get this at all. Munster are missing their entire first choice back 3, Flannery and Wallace and yet are still on the verge of getting a home QF with a 100% record. They have introduced the likes of Murray, Zebo, Barnes and O'Mahoney to the Heineken Cup. These lads are learning how to win tight games from the likes of O'Connell and O'Gara.
If anything I would say that was very encouraging.
Munster have a very strong pack and half backs.
They'll probably win a home QF and the semifinals are the luck of the draw. I don't think any team would fancy playing Munster in a Semifinal in Ireland.

irishbucsfan · 19-12-2011 01:08PM

I nearly had my head taken off when I said this after the castres game!

Realistically though, Munster will be playing the number 7 or 8 seed in thomond in the quarter final. They should win that. After that all they need is a kind semi final draw and they could well be in twickenham next may. Doesn't change the fact that they are getting worse as a rugby team, but at least they are squeezing the last ounce of success out of their ageing legends.

The dream of a Munster Leinster final is still very much alive at least.

Podge_irl · 19-12-2011 01:16PM

Munster could well end up playing one of Toulouse or Harlequins in Thomond in a QF, which will most definitely not be an easy affair. I have a feeling Saracens or Toulouse may overtake them though as I think it's unlikely they'll win in England. NH moving the game will certainly help them there. NH fans will be must less likely to travel for a dead rubber game. They may actually be better off falling into 3rd seeds, as that will give them Cardiff or Edinburgh at home which would be a much better game to get.

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 01:16PM

How on earth are Munster the only team in this season's Heineken Cup on a 100% record? Lucky in the extreme to beat Northampton, an unlikely win in France and 2 wins against a game but fragile Scarlets has put us in a position where a home Quarter final looks a real possibility now.

You make your own luck. We probably weren't the better team in the first game in Thomond but there was no luck in involved in going 40 phases for what was a masterful piece of pressure play.

However to gloss over all our inadequacies and be complacent is going to bring us into a play off - be it in the quarter or semi - where we are going to get destroyed by the top European teams such as Toulouse and Leinster.

Two teams who on their day could well put Munster to the sword but given the occasion a Leinster Munster semi would bring I think it would be hugely competitive. A home semi with Toulouse would be no roll-over either. I don't think Munster will fear any of the remaining sides coming to Thomond in the quarters either

It was obvious that Mafi was off form yesterday but we persist with the same players in the backs regardless of form.

Mafi was poor yesterday but he's been pretty solid other than that. If you say he should be dropped who do you suggest he be replaced by? Chambers hasn't shown much and Barnes still looks a little green

In fairness Hurley and Murphy are never really going to do it at top level, sure there may be a place for those guys in the squad but neither look comfortable at Heineken level.

Hurley has been one of Munster's best performers in the HC this season and Murphy hasn't exactly been poor either while not exactly being outstanding.

Still we whistle and kick the can down the road but the fact is we are going to get a big wake up call this season, merry Christmas.

I think if you read though any Munster thread here you'll notice that most of the posters are acknowledging that we've been fortunate to an extent this year given our injury list, yet you act like it's some sort of great revelation?!

I think that as a team in transition with a serious injury list, the strong possibility of a HC semi would cap off a decent season.

Big Nelly · 19-12-2011 01:25PM

Funny thread, would love to read what the Toulouse/London Irish/Northampton etc forums are like.

All I can say is fair play to Munster!! well done on 4 out of 4! nobody thought it at start of season

I bet Northampton would love to be complaining about 4 wins out of 4!!!!

Podge_irl · 19-12-2011 01:25PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I don't think Munster will fear any of the remaining sides coming to Thomond in the quarters either

Really? I'd worry about them facing Harlequins and possibly Clermont.

Also yes, by all right Leinster should beat Munster in a semi final, but then I thought something pretty similar in the opposite direction a few years ago and we all know what happened then...

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 01:34PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Really? I'd worry about them facing Harlequins and possibly Clermont.

Also yes, by all right Leinster should beat Munster in a semi final, but then I thought something pretty similar in the opposite direction a few years ago and we all know what happened then...

I mean it in terms of a comparison to Leinster and Toulouse coming to Thomond.

I wouldn't be overly confident of any quarter draw and Quinns and Clermont would be a worry alright but still a 50/50 game at Thomond in my view.

Podge_irl · 19-12-2011 01:36PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I mean it in terms of a comparison to Leinster and Toulouse coming to Thomond.

I wouldn't be overly confident of any quarter draw and Quinns and Clermont would be a worry alright but still a 50/50 game at Thomond in my view.

I would say it would be slightly better then 50/50, but I'd genuinely worry about Munster's lack of cutting edge in that scenario. They certainly aren't going to bludgeon Clermont into submission.

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 01:39PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would say it would be slightly better then 50/50, but I'd genuinely worry about Munster's lack of cutting edge in that scenario. They certainly aren't going to bludgeon Clermont into submission.

True

If rumours of David Wallace and Jones returning soon are to be believed that would certainly offer something new both up front and out-wide

We certainly won't have much of a chance of winning the tournament this year on form but with knock-out rugby anything can happen.

cgpg5 · 19-12-2011 01:50PM

Munster will probably be one of the worst quarter finalists they have been lucky but I myself said at the start that they'd lose their 3 away games, I have to hold my hands up and say well done, barring that though no team would be unhappy to draw them in the QF

buck65 · 19-12-2011 01:52PM

Well if it's in Thomond I think every team will want to avoid them as they are statistically very likely to win there. An away semi or quarter final is what worries me though.

twinytwo · 19-12-2011 01:54PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Really? I'd worry about them facing Harlequins and possibly Clermont.

Also yes, by all right Leinster should beat Munster in a semi final, but then I thought something pretty similar in the opposite direction a few years ago and we all know what happened then...

the only team im worried about is toulouse.... hopefully leinster will do us a favor there.

Digifriendly · 19-12-2011 01:54PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Really? I'd worry about them facing Harlequins and possibly Clermont.

Also yes, by all right Leinster should beat Munster in a semi final, but then I thought something pretty similar in the opposite direction a few years ago and we all know what happened then...

Harlequins/Toulouse possibly Saracens (though I think they would edge it against Sarries) but remember Ulster beat Clermont who are a different propsition entirely at home.

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 01:55PM

cgpg5 wrote: »

Munster will probably be one of the worst quarter finalists they have been lucky but I myself said at the start that they'd lose their 3 away games, I have to hold my hands up and say well done, barring that though no team would be unhappy to draw them in the QF

I can guarantee that not one team left in the competition come next year will fancy taking a trip to Limerick

JustinDee · 19-12-2011 01:57PM

Results are all that matters. Stay within a shout if under the cosh and anything's possible.
Munster's experience in key positions helped a lot.

cgpg5 · 19-12-2011 02:01PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I can guarantee that not one team left in the competition come next year will fancy taking a trip to Limerick

Did Quins not beat them last year in Thomond? Tbh they'd much rather Thomond to any other away venue (out of 6 other quarter teams) that's my opinion. I'd say most would say the same

Podge_irl · 19-12-2011 02:02PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

Harlequins/Toulouse possibly Saracens (though I think they would edge it against Sarries) but remember Ulster beat Clermont who are a different propsition entirely at home.

That's why I said possibly, I'm never quite sure with Clermont. I feel they might do their best to try and bring their A game considering it would be a QF, but it's really impossible to know with them.

Podge_irl · 19-12-2011 02:04PM

cgpg5 wrote: »

Did Quins not beat them last year in Thomond? Tbh they'd much rather Thomond to any other away venue (out of 6 other quarter teams) that's my opinion. I'd say most would say the same

I'd FAR rather be playing Edin/Cardiff then Munster at home. Possibly Sarries as well.

BionicRasher · 19-12-2011 02:05PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

True

We certainly won't have much of a chance of winning the tournament this year on form

!!!
Form
Munster are 4 for 4
if that's not form then I don't know what is
there are few other teams around with 'form' at the moment

Its all about a win folks - no one will care what type of team you have or the potential you had (or lack of) if you keep winning. Teams have often won competitions by scraping through games and going on to win a dour final
Who cares if they are ageing or lack depth and excitement

As someone wise once said 'A win's, a win's, a win'

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 02:09PM

cgpg5 wrote: »

Did Quins not beat them last year in Thomond? Tbh they'd much rather Thomond to any other away venue (out of 6 other quarter teams) that's my opinion. I'd say most would say the same

Yes in the Amlin, like comparing apples and oranges

Doubt that, anyone that knows much about rugby know that Munster have only been beaten once in Thomond in the HC.

No team left in the competition will want to go to Limerick.

Hypothetically, If given a choice do you think Leinster or Toulouse would rather play Cardiff in Cardiff or Munster in Limerick?

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 02:11PM

tui0hcg wrote: »

!!!
Form
Munster are 4 for 4
if that's not form then I don't know what is
there are few other teams around with 'form' at the moment

We've won 4 out of 4 but we haven't played well to any extent in the majority of the games.

We won't beat Leinster or Toulouse playing like that, which is my point.

cgpg5 · 19-12-2011 02:15PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Yes in the Amlin, like comparing apples and oranges

Doubt that, anyone that knows much about rugby know that Munster have only been beaten once in Thomond in the HC.

No team left in the competition will want to go to Limerick.

Hypothetically, If given a choice do you think Leinster or Toulouse would rather play Cardiff in Cardiff or Munster in Limerick?

They may have been beaten once but this is the poorest Munster side in a while I feel, well of course apart from last year. Come on they were blessed to beat Northampton this year and didn't have much to spare over a very limited Scarlets side.

They'd hardly mind tbh they'd both be super confident of progressing regardless of whether it was Cardiff or Munster but agreed they may rather Cardiff.

Auvers · 19-12-2011 02:20PM

cgpg5 wrote: »

Did Quins not beat them last year in Thomond?

was that not the Amlin cup

Remember Munster have only lost once in the Heineken Cup in Thomond so the stats are on their side

Big Nelly · 19-12-2011 02:20PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

We've won 4 out of 4 but we haven't played well to any extent in the majority of the games.

We won't beat Leinster or Toulouse playing like that, which is my point.

So what is the compaint? not getting into a Munster/Leinster conversation! Munster have done great and as a Leinster fan, sorry no an Ireland fan I am very happy.

Would love to see Leinster/Munster/Ulster all into quarters!

If any of the teams get beaten by a better side on the day so be it. I just think it is great for Irish rugby!

Also after seeing Quinns win the Amlin cup last season I want to see Conor O'Shea do well!!!

Lets put it this way, in years to come I want to tell my kids about the great Leinster/Munster/Ulster teams! not about nearly there teams.

Ireland doesn't have the money! IRFU doesn't have the money so take a step back! in all this crap we need to look towards the good and Munster are giving Irish people some of those. Why should we complain?

I think the best thing I have ever seen was in Heino cup draw, a fan from Toulouse said he didnt want any Irish team. Made me feel proud of all of the teams. Connaught included!!!!!

cgpg5 · 19-12-2011 02:23PM

Auvers wrote: »

was that not the Amlin cup

Remember Munster have only lost once in the Heineken Cup in Thomond so the stats are on their side

Still a semi final, just because it was Amlin Cup does that mean that Munster automatically didn't try and win?

BionicRasher · 19-12-2011 02:24PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

We've won 4 out of 4 but we haven't played well to any extent in the majority of the games.

We won't beat Leinster or Toulouse playing like that, which is my point.

Point taken on the term 'Form'
Munster shouldn't have beaten any of the teams (away from home at least) on previous 'form' but they did so I go back to the ol saying 'A win's, a win's, a win' and from 4 out of 4 they now have the best 'form' about

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 02:28PM

Big Nelly wrote: »

So what is the compaint? not getting into a Munster/Leinster conversation! Munster have done great and as a Leinster fan, sorry no an Ireland fan I am very happy.

Would love to see Leinster/Munster/Ulster all into quarters!

If any of the teams get beaten by a better side on the day so be it. I just think it is great for Irish rugby!

Also after seeing Quinns win the Amlin cup last season I want to see Conor O'Shea do well!!!

Lets put it this way, in years to come I want to tell my kids about the great Leinster/Munster/Ulster teams! not about nearly there teams.

Ireland doesn't have the money! IRFU doesn't have the money so take a step back! in all this crap we need to look towards the good and Munster are giving Irish people some of those. Why should we complain?

I think the best thing I have ever seen was in Heino cup draw, a fan from Toulouse said he didnt want any Irish team. Made me feel proud of all of the teams. Connaught included!!!!!

What made you think I'm complaining?

I'm a Munster fan and I think the future is very bright for us but I don't think we have enough this year to win the tournament outright, a semi final appearance would be a very good showing IMO.

It's more realism than anything else, I'd love to see us do it but can't see past Toulouse or Leinster this year.

I don't know what your implying tbh

Fishooks12 · 19-12-2011 02:31PM

cgpg5 wrote: »

Still a semi final, just because it was Amlin Cup does that mean that Munster automatically didn't try and win?

No-one said they didn't try and win but can you not see how the lesser stature of the competition might have led to complacency.

Quinns seemed hell bent on doing well in the Amlin too as opposed to Munster who were looking at winning the magners as goal number one.

Big Nelly · 19-12-2011 02:32PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

What made you think I'm complaining?

I'm a Munster fan and I think the future is very bright for us but I don't think we have enough this year to win the tournament outright, a semi final appearance would be a very good showing IMO.

It's more realism than anything else, I'd love to see us do it but can't see past Toulouse or Leinster this year.

I don't know what your implying tbh

Sorry didn't mean to pick you out but I was discussing the whole thread or meant to.

phog · 19-12-2011 02:43PM

Auvers wrote: »

was that not the Amlin cup

Remember Munster have only lost once in the Heineken Cup in Thomond so the stats are on their side

In European games Munster have a proud record of home wins, in fact have a good record of wins home and away but that defeat was hard to take. It was more about how poor our performance was that day than actually been beaten. I cant say that I dont mind defeats but at least when you're beaten when playing well you feel you threw everything at them. That day I felt we let Quins dictate the game to Munster. It being the Amlin didn't lighten the defeat.

I'm happy enough with us sitting on top of the table but we need to cut out all the errors if we're progress in the H/C. How many knock-ons, poor passes, lost lineouts, defensive errors have we had in the last 4 games and for some of them we weren't really punished by our opponents scoring from the turnover. Also, when we're in the red zone we shouldn't be leaving without a score, how many times have we seen Munster within 5 meters of the try line and have the ball turned over or penalised. This cant continnue to happen.

Overall, at this moment in time with the injuries that we've incurred I happier that we're playing poorly and winning, than playing well and losing.

profitius · 19-12-2011 02:57PM

Munster are much stronger this season than last season. The main changes has been BJ Botha, Anthony Fole and POC back to health. Add in the like of POM, Murray and the overall strengthening and proper use of the squad and you begin to see why Munster have managed to win 4 from 4.

I agree with the OP about the backs. They've been shocking and a new coach and some midfielders are needed.

justsomebloke · 19-12-2011 03:01PM

Truthfully I'm not sure if Munster will get home semi final due to the lack of any bonus points wins.

I think the top 4 may end up being Leinster, Toulouse, Lecister and Saracens, with Cardiff and Munster getting the last 2 winners spots and Harlequins and either Edinburgh/clermont as the.

twinytwo · 19-12-2011 03:10PM

buck65 wrote: »

How on earth are Munster the only team in this season's Heineken Cup on a 100% record? Lucky in the extreme to beat Northampton, an unlikely win in France and 2 wins against a game but fragile Scarlets has put us in a position where a home Quarter final looks a real possibility now.
Castres by the looks of things have thrown their hat at the competition and should be rolled over in Thomond leaving a trip to Franklin Garden's with us probably looking for no more than a losing BP at the most for a home QF.
All very well and dandy if all goes as above except for one thing...we will be one of the poorest teams in the knockout phases.
Our play has been one dimensional, predictable and totally blunt. We have lacked real pace out wide, our back play is abysmal and our midfield look incapable of making line breaks. The one bright light is BJ Botha and what he has done to a scrum that spent the last two seasons going if not backwards at least sideways.
Paul O Connell is playing inspiring stuff and driving the pack forward. O Gara as has been well documented is kicking his goals and scoring a few essential drop goals and his all round game is quite good too.
However to gloss over all our inadequacies and be complacent is going to bring us into a play off - be it in the quarter or semi - where we are going to get destroyed by the top European teams such as Toulouse and Leinster.
Of course we are crippled with injury to key figures such as Howlett, Wallace, Felix Jones etc. but the happy place we find ourselves in now a dangerously false one.
Our backline is a complete jumble of journeymen and young players, who find themselves out of position so much they actually look lost at times - 2 tries were butchered yesterday by the backs who seem to have no spatial awareness whatsoever.
A top class backs coach is seriously lacking and one would have to wonder when the IRFU are going to adress this. It took them long enough to realise that our scrum needed serious investment.
Also our coach though commendable for making some hard calls really needs to give Ian Keatley a run at 12. O Gara is going to be in the cockpit for at least 2 more seasons and having a player with his ability on the bench is counter productive for him and the club.
It was obvious that Mafi was off form yesterday but we persist with the same players in the backs regardless of form.
Good to see Earls back but the loss of Howlett will hurt us. Munster do need one or two new players in the backs though, lads with experience. In fairness Hurley and Murphy are never really going to do it at top level, sure there may be a place for those guys in the squad but neither look comfortable at Heineken level.
Still we whistle and kick the can down the road but the fact is we are going to get a big wake up call this season, merry Christmas.

Forget muscle memory... munster have unbreakable heart. Which is why even when they are losing they contnue to throw everything they have at their oppents... even when most other teams would have given up.

Cool_CM · 19-12-2011 03:30PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

No-one said they didn't try and win but can you not see how the lesser stature of the competition might have led to complacency.

Not really, to be honest. Their European home record is something special and I'd sincerely doubt that any of the players wanted to be part of a team that were knocked out of Europe in Thomond.

Roman Poite or no Roman Poite, they were muck on the day.

errlloyd · 19-12-2011 04:20PM

As a leinster fan I am hoping you guys get through. If we go out in the pool, or even in the quarter I'd be glad to know there was still a chance of Irish involvement. And of course for the Irish set up its great that players are getting top level game time, and WINNING. Learning how to win, learning to never give up and learning to grind it out!!

Leinster and Ulster could learn a lot from Munster. Because both Leinster and Ulster are good at winning when they are better. But Munster are writing a whole new book on how to win when you're worse.

SARZY · 19-12-2011 04:28PM

errlloyd wrote: »

As a leinster fan I am hoping you guys get through. If we go out in the pool, or even in the quarter I'd be glad to know there was still a chance of Irish involvement. And of course for the Irish set up its great that players are getting top level game time, and WINNING. Learning how to win, learning to never give up and learning to grind it out!!

Leinster and Ulster could learn a lot from Munster. Because both Leinster and Ulster are good at winning when they are better. But Munster are writing a whole new book on how to win when you're worse.

That sums it all up really.

Riskymove · 19-12-2011 04:40PM

justsomebloke wrote: »

Truthfully I'm not sure if Munster will get home semi final due to the lack of any bonus points wins.

I think the top 4 may end up being Leinster, Toulouse, Lecister and Saracens, with Cardiff and Munster getting the last 2 winners spots and Harlequins and either Edinburgh/clermont as the.

If Munster win their last two games, even without BPs, they will have 24 points

niether Cardiff nor Toulouse (currently 13 pts) can get this even with 2 BP wins

Sarries or Ulster could match or beat with some BPs but both have tough games to come (Biarritz and Liecester) and two BP wins for the Tigers or Edinburgh wont get them 24 either

Leinster are the only ones likely to top Munster in those circumstances, with possibly one of sarries or Ulster

But at worst the 4th spot and at best the first spot

PhatPiggins · 19-12-2011 04:53PM

cgpg5 wrote: »

Munster will probably be one of the worst quarter finalists they have been lucky but I myself said at the start that they'd lose their 3 away games, I have to hold my hands up and say well done, barring that though no team would be unhappy to draw them in the QF

:pac::pac:

There's not a team in Europe that would want to come to Thomond Park and I don't care how poor Munster are supposed to be.

copacetic · 19-12-2011 04:59PM

errlloyd wrote: »

As a leinster fan I am hoping you guys get through. If we go out in the pool, or even in the quarter I'd be glad to know there was still a chance of Irish involvement. And of course for the Irish set up its great that players are getting top level game time, and WINNING. Learning how to win, learning to never give up and learning to grind it out!!

Leinster and Ulster could learn a lot from Munster. Because both Leinster and Ulster are good at winning when they are better. But Munster are writing a whole new book on how to win when you're worse.

+1, This forum can give you the wrong perception of what most actual fans think of other provinces. Watching the Munster game on the Saturday in Bath, there was universal vocal support for them from a pub packed with travelling Leinster fans. Similarly there was a lot of support for Connacht too, up until they kicked the ball away and with it all chances of getting a result.

durkadurka · 19-12-2011 05:10PM

copacetic wrote: »

+1, This forum can give you the wrong perception of what most actual fans think of other provinces. Watching the Munster game on the Saturday in Bath, there was universal vocal support for them from a pub packed with travelling Leinster fans. Similarly there was a lot of support for Connacht too, up until they kicked the ball away and with it all chances of getting a result.

Yep before a leinster game last season, we were watching Munster vs Quins and everyone in the pub was cheering for Munster

Clareman · 19-12-2011 05:11PM

Munster should realistically be targeting a bonus point win against Castres at home, this will leave them on 21 points, looking at the other groups there aren't that many teams will have more than that, although a bonus point will be needed in NH I'd say, at that stage NH may just be concentrating on the Aviva so a bonus point could be on the cards.

Once it gets down to the QFs you are normally left with the best teams in the competition, it can be argued it's better to play the worst pool winners than the best runners up, normally the best runners up/top seeds have Italian teams in their group, this year I can see being completely different however.

As a former poker player, it's always better to win a small pot than to lose a big 1, in other words I'd much prefer to win playing badly than to lose playing brilliantly (WASPS anyone?), Munster are currently in a situation where they are the last team with a 100% record and have a number of their starters due to come back, we are in a great place.

Saying all that, I think Leinster are playing the best rugby in competition at the moment, their back row & continuation play is brilliant, their side of the draw will be the 1 to miss come the knockout stages.

phog · 19-12-2011 05:27PM

justsomebloke wrote: »

Truthfully I'm not sure if Munster will get home semi final due to the lack of any bonus points wins.

I think the top 4 may end up being Leinster, Toulouse, Lecister and Saracens, with Cardiff and Munster getting the last 2 winners spots and Harlequins and either Edinburgh/clermont as the.

Did you mean Qtr Final? Semi Finals are drawn from a hat and BP have no bearing on it.

danthefan · 19-12-2011 05:42PM

Munster have a SF in the bag at this stage. It's the luck of the draw then.

Clareman · 19-12-2011 05:48PM

I think something that will stand to Munster come the QFs is not many of the team will be involved in the 6N, at the moment you could say on PoC in the pack, Murray & RoG, although I'm very impressed with Boss atm and I think that Sexton is the best to get our backs going but I really don't want to turn this isn't another RoG vs. Sexton debate so lets ignore that, Earls will play a few games and it's very hard to see any of our back 3 starting ahead of the others.

BTW I realise that looking at the QFs is getting well ahead of myself

danthefan · 19-12-2011 05:49PM

Ryan and DOC will both make every 22 also.

Clareman · 19-12-2011 06:15PM

True, as will a lot of other players not in the starting 15

Fireball07 · 19-12-2011 06:16PM

Clareman wrote: »

I think something that will stand to Munster come the QFs is not many of the team will be involved in the 6N, at the moment you could say on PoC in the pack, Murray & RoG, although I'm very impressed with Boss atm and I think that Sexton is the best to get our backs going but I really don't want to turn this isn't another RoG vs. Sexton debate so lets ignore that, Earls will play a few games and it's very hard to see any of our back 3 starting ahead of the others.

BTW I realise that looking at the QFs is getting well ahead of myself

Don't be surprised if TOL gets in the squad too...I'd expect Murray to start some games at least. ROG will be on the bench. Earls will likely be on the bench at least.

POM could make the bench, he'll probably be in the squad anyway. And DOC and Ryan will be involved, one of them at least will be in the 22.

d-gal · 19-12-2011 06:20PM

Munster are much better than last year. The younger lads such as POM and Murray have really helped and the likes of Leamy, POC, Ryan and Hurley are playing so much better.

If Munster can get back Jones and Wallace they have a massive chance of getting to the Semi's and possibly sneaking into a final (hopefully vs Leinster guaranteeing Connacht another year of HC

)

Potential team by QF stage
Du Preez/Varley/Botha (solid front row)
Ryan/POC (international 2nd row partnership)
POM/Coughlan/Wallace (really really strong backrow)
Murray/O'Gara (youth and experience)
Mafi/Earls (potentially good)
Zebo/Hurley/Jones (again potentially good)

That looks very appealing and will give anybody a tough game, especially in Thomond. Also there will be a huge factor that Munster will have a strong and more importantly experienced bench in Horan, DOC, Leamy, O'Leary and Murphy which is crucial in tight games.

How long are Jones/Wallace/Sherry/Fla/Borlase expected to be out for?!

Cpt_Blackbeard · 19-12-2011 06:21PM

If we manage to get to the semi-finals, I wouldn't be surprised to see the SkySports hype train roll back into Thomond park. A team in clear transition and ravaged by injuries working their way through to the latter stages of the HC on heart and will to win alone - Sky Sports will be creaming themselves.

The title of the thread is something I would fully expect to see Stuart Barnes harp on about or, one of the lads in the studio bring up when analyzing the teams left in the knock-out stages.

100% record , a team living on muscle memory

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