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Irish times today !!! - interview with Martin Fagan

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    #2
    donothoponpop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭donothoponpop


    Very revealing article. He blames depression and financial worries leading him to take EPO (once). That last mile-collapse in Chicago marathon seems to have been the straw that broke the camels back. Hold's his hands up about his actions. Very hard not to feel sympathy with him.

    Hate the sin, love the sinner.


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    #3
    rovers_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    Complete cop out IMHO, what about the dozens of other Irish athletes who bend over backwards to get by? <Snip>
    It's clear as day everyone was onto him and someone was tipped off about his plans.


    The potentially revealing paragraph was left unexplained further on in the piece:

    ....What he didn’t know, or at least expect, was the Irish Sports Council’s anti-doping unit had been watching him: Fagan had missed a doping test back in 2007 (for some “silly” reason), then last summer received an e-mail saying he needed to update his “whereabouts” more regularly, that if he wasn’t careful he could lose his grant: “And I wasn’t even getting a grant, so I was pretty angry about that.”.....


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    #4
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    I do feel sorry for him now but he must still serve his time and he will and he is saying he will.

    The things that people have been critical of Fagan in the past (including myself) seem to have been the problem. He seemed more focused on making $$ than chasing medals. He lost his grant (rightly so) as he failed to perform at the champs. If he was clever and his support had been clever he could have focused on a Euro champs (track or cross) and won one, done a Fionnuala. With that could have come acclaim and resources. Greater sponsorship, a certain grant. He choose to run the race circuit. He essentially left the system, cut himself off. He was poorly advised I would say.

    I would love to see him stay at home now. Bear in mind Mark Kenneally got the standard that Fagan was chasing while training in Ireland and starting up a business and for a time without a grant. There can be a happy end to this story and if he did turn it around it would be great.


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    #5
    drquirky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    Like a few have said in the other thread- nobody died. In fact no one was even hurt by this except Fagan himself. Its a sad story and I feel bad for him- depression is no joke and I hope he sorts it out...


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    #6
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    drquirky wrote: »
    Like a few have said in the other thread- nobody died. In fact no one was even hurt by this except Fagan himself.

    Not true. The sport in Ireland has been massively hurt and affected by this. More reason for people to be not interested in it.


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    #7
    jimbobaloobob
    Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭jimbobaloobob


    I agree with the sympathy sentiment.
    Athletes of all sports are under huge pressures to achieve, failure has a negative career significance.
    From the outside looking in its easy to discard his explanation if you want, but looking at all those who cowardly denied A samples and B samples for years on years i admire his honesty to come clean.

    I hope he can deal with his demons and is not plagued by our emerging irish paparatzi.


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    #8
    ss43
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭ss43


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    Complete cop out IMHO, what about the dozens of other Irish athletes who bend over backwards to get by? Depression, yawn.
    It's clear as day everyone was onto him and someone was tipped off about his plans.


    The potentially revealing paragraph was left unexplained further on in the piece:

    ....What he didn’t know, or at least expect, was the Irish Sports Council’s anti-doping unit had been watching him: Fagan had missed a doping test back in 2007 (for some “silly” reason), then last summer received an e-mail saying he needed to update his “whereabouts” more regularly, that if he wasn’t careful he could lose his grant: “And I wasn’t even getting a grant, so I was pretty angry about that.”.....

    The article did seem to just accept Fagan's version of events. It could just be convenient way of generating some sympathy.

    Did people here worry about the state of mind of Rachid Ramzi, Steve Mullings, Justin Gatlin, Mohammed Mourhit or Ben Johnson?

    Lots of people take drugs. Lots of them, when caught, come up with some story to put themselves out there as the victim? Why not just have a general 'I feel sorry for all those poor athletes who decide to break the rules for their own personal gain' mindset.


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    #9
    Seres
    Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭Seres


    He is a professional athlete but he is also a son and a brother . This is terrible for his professional life and athletes as a whole but for him personally it might be his saving grace . Too many times we hear of the unexplained tragic suicides of athletes , he must be penalised but i hope this scandal helps him confront and beat his mental health issues .


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    #10
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    If I was a depression sufferer I'd be raging at him, many many people suffer from depression and do not abandon their moral compass.


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    #11
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    I kinda feel sorry for him, as I always got the impression that the running public in Ireland put him under severe pressure.

    Alot of people on boards before this incident occured thought the sun shined out of his arse and he was the best thing since slice bread.


    When fagan runs there is loads of pages written about him here, but yet we have an Irish female European XC champion and not much talked about here.

    I remember saying on here he is not that good and got slated. He is a good runner but nothing special when it comes to representing his country or producing it on the big day.

    I hope this incident will relax the lad, now take all the pressure off him and he can come back in two years a better runner and in a better place for it.

    Depression is a terrible thing so i hope he recovers from it.


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    #12
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    Great interview.

    I wouldn't say I feel sorry for him getting caught doping, but how hard must it be dealing with a promising career going down the tubes? Anyone who says they wouldn't be tempted in the same circumstances is talking rubbish.


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    #13
    Seres
    Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭Seres


    ss43 wrote: »
    The article did seem to just accept Fagan's version of events. It could just be convenient way of generating some sympathy.

    Did people here worry about the state of mind of Rachid Ramzi, Steve Mullings, Justin Gatlin, Mohammed Mourhit or Ben Johnson?

    Lots of people take drugs. Lots of them, when caught, come up with some story to put themselves out there as the victim? Why not just have a general 'I feel sorry for all those poor athletes who decide to break the rules for their own personal gain' mindset.

    Besides a bit of sympathy what is the real gain in it for him ?! . He is still gonna get the ban . Being that honest about where you are at mentally is not an easy thing . There is an awful lot of stigma attached to depression and mental health so the consequences of his honesty is that he will have to deal with that now too .


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    #14
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    tunney wrote: »
    If I was a depression sufferer I'd be raging at him, many many people suffer from depression and do not abandon their moral compass.

    I didn't realise there's an expected response to how depression effects one.


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    #15
    DogSlySmile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭DogSlySmile


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    Complete cop out IMHO... <Snip>

    Yeah, mental health... what a joke...:rolleyes:

    RR, try saying that on any of the many Irish depression/mental health forums, lets see what kind of a reaction you get...


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    #16
    TheRoadRunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Read that article and I believe what he has said. Obviously some won't but that's going to differ depending on the person I hope he gets his mental health sorted and would love for him to get back into the sport in some way (if he wishes to) once he has served his ban.
    ss43 wrote: »

    Did people here worry about the state of mind of Rachid Ramzi, Steve Mullings, Justin Gatlin, Mohammed Mourhit or Ben Johnson?

    The above point is very valid. There seemed to a bit of hypocrisy on the other thread. Fagan's friends were defending his actions and if he were my friend I'd probably do the same.

    However
    - If you deem drug cheats as scumbags who should be banned for life than fair enough.
    - If you feel that drug cheats are robbing people of medals/qualification places than fair enough.
    - If you refuse to acknowledge a drug cheat when he/she is in your presence then fair enough

    but next time remember they may have a human story to tell as well. You can't have it every way!


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    #17
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Woddle wrote: »
    I didn't realise there's an expected response to how depression effects one.


    Depression effects everyone in different ways, some people actually end their live because of it and other people can handle other ways

    There is no easy for some one to actually deal with it. Just hope he learns how to cope with it and manages it now. Its better its known now he suffers from it so people can help him instead of him bottling it and something worst happen.


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    #18
    Bella mamma
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Bella mamma


    thirstywork2 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0116/1224310309138.html

    This is the 2nd related article in The IT
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0116/1224310310398.html?via=rel


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    #19
    dedon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭dedon


    Mod: Sock puppet account for NickDrake. Permanent ban


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    #20
    rovers_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    DogSlySmile wrote: »
    Yeah, mental health... what a joke...:rolleyes:

    RR, try saying that on any of the many Irish depression/mental health forums, lets see what kind of a reaction you get...

    In this context, yes it is a joke.
    He did the crime, was caught and then chose to have an "On mature reflection..." moment.

    He was conveniently caught 24hrs after his "first use" of a banned substance.
    We've all seen people in all walks of life break the law/rules across many mediums and then blame their mental health to soften the punishment, a load of rubbish.


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    #21
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Having read the article I feel the need to distinguish between the athlete and the person.
    From an athletics point of view I have absolutely no sympathy for Martin Fagan. As thirtyfoot said he isolated himself from the support systems available and was very poorly advised. There are parts of his story which I find barely credible. To be tested on the day he first used EPO is all too convenient. Nobody knew what he was doing, he doesn't know anybody else who is doping and he ordered it over the internet. There is also the issue of a previous missed test for a "silly" reason.Too much of this story just doesn't add up. He has caused huge damage to the sport in Ireland and I believe that in getting a two year ban he is getting off lightly.
    However I do have sympathy for Martin Fagan the person. He has thrown away something he has devoted his life to. In retrospect that may be no bad thing and he may find himself in a better place without the disappointments athletics has brought him. As an individual he will need the support of the people who were there for him on the way up. I believe that the support of his friends and family in Mullingar is essential in the rehabilitation that he requires. I hope that people who know him are prepared to pick up the phone and support him as his friend despite what they might think of his actions.
    Martin Fagan has made some very poor choices in his life culminating in dragging Irish athletics into disrepute. I hope he finds the strength to deal with this and that free from the burden athletics had become can be at peace with himself.


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    #22
    broders3
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭broders3


    Would tend to agree with Dedon that this sounds a little like a pre-emptive strike by him and have a hard time believing he is a virgin doper.

    Just to clear one thing up about his financial situation, it does say in the article that Visa issues prevented him from taking on work to supplement his income.


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    #23
    Tombo2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭Tombo2000


    thirtyfoot wrote: »
    Not true. The sport in Ireland has been massively hurt and affected by this. More reason for people to be not interested in it.


    How do you make that out?

    Massively hurt......I think thats overegging it a bit. There are probably 100 gaelic footballers and hurlers who are better known in the country than him. It will hardly register with people not in the sport and people in the sport already know that some athletes take drugs. One of them is Irish....shock horror not really....

    Plus the fact that he is US based......if it was someone who was here full time running races in the local circuit and active in a local club i might see it differently.....

    Its a bad story for the athlete.....but massive damage to athletics in Ireland?


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    #24
    Liamo08
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Liamo08


    broders3 wrote: »
    Would tend to agree with Dedon that this sounds a little like a pre-emptive strike by him and have a hard time believing he is a virgin doper.

    Just to clear one thing up about his financial situation, it does say in the article that Visa issues prevented him from taking on work to supplement his income.

    Very difficult to prove that it was his first time, but if he was taking EPO continually the way it's described in the article for the last few years he'd have been caught long ago.


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    #25
    BTH
    Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    Complete cop out IMHO, what about the dozens of other Irish athletes who bend over backwards to get by? <snip>

    You sir are a disgrace.


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    #26
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    To er is to human, to forgive, divine.

    Ultimately, forgetting all the theories, the wrongs and rights, blame etc, it's just a very sad story. He's only cheated himself. Years of hard work all down the drain, that's the biggest punishment. I'd like to think that will matter more than any two year ban or the court of public opinion.

    I wish people would read the articles in full before asking why he didn't get a job like anyone else.

    The answer is right there.
    He’d moved to the high-altitude training base in Flagstaff, Arizona, in 2007, but because of visa issues wasn’t able to work to supplement whatever small grant aid or sponsorship was out there. So he fell further into debt, going back to college days in Providence, as he’d been effectively borrowing for everything, his apartment, his car, food.

    Depression is no joke. It's hard enough to get people to talk about their mental health without people saying 'yawn' at the mention of the word.

    All that said, there are some more questions to be asked, like did AAI suspect him given the timing of the test. I'd like to see someone like Paul Kimmage interview him, tease out all the details.


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    #27
    rovers_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    BetterThanHoyte wrote: »
    You sir are a disgrace.

    Did you read my post fully?
    Do you think it's ok for people who get caught out breaking the rules to blame depression and think it will excuse their actions?

    How am I a disgrace for dismissing his explaination as an excuse?


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    #28
    jlang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭jlang


    thirstywork2 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0116/1224310309138.html
    The first "Ads by Google" under the article is for EPO boost to improve your endurance! Or does Google think that's what I need?


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    #29
    too much trifle
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭too much trifle


    sort of related,
    what finishing positions in a marathon are compulsory drug tested after the race?


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    #30
    macinalli
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭macinalli


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    Did you read my post fully?
    Do you think it's ok for people who get caught out breaking the rules to blame depression and think it will excuse their actions?

    How am I a disgrace for dismissing his explaination as an excuse?

    The problem isn't your attitude towards Fagan - it's your attiutude towards depression


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    #31
    Bella mamma
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Bella mamma


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    Complete cop out IMHO, what about the dozens of other Irish athletes who bend over backwards to get by? Depression, yawn.
    It's clear as day everyone was onto him and someone was tipped off about his plans.


    The potentially revealing paragraph was left unexplained further on in the piece:

    ....What he didn’t know, or at least expect, was the Irish Sports Council’s anti-doping unit had been watching him: Fagan had missed a doping test back in 2007 (for some “silly” reason), then last summer received an e-mail saying he needed to update his “whereabouts” more regularly, that if he wasn’t careful he could lose his grant: “And I wasn’t even getting a grant, so I was pretty angry about that.”.....

    If the guys says he was "severely depressed" and "contemplating suicide", he was severely depressed and contempleting suicide. It's astonishing that is, in your words, "a complete cop out". "Depression. Yawn"???

    Darren Sutherland.


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